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Tried Brass Bridge Pins?

13 Sep 06 - 12:21 PM (#1833591)
Subject: tried brass bridge pins?
From: leftydee

I just put brass bridge pins in my '49 00-17 and am very impressed. They seem to add some sustain and brighten the top end. Have you tried them? What do you think?


13 Sep 06 - 01:09 PM (#1833625)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge

We have had a range of threads about this. Opinions vary!


13 Sep 06 - 01:19 PM (#1833637)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Steve-o

I agree with you- I have them on my '46 D-28 now- I have had everything from ivory to wood in there, and these actually do brighten the tone.


13 Sep 06 - 02:07 PM (#1833675)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,phlogiston0002

Have them in my '53 Southern Jumbo. Enhanced an already stallar guitar in almost every respect. Trusted luthier says increase in vibrating mass shouldn't hurt the guitar.


14 Sep 06 - 04:59 AM (#1834150)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge

Well, to re-cap what is elsewhere, I tried them first on a Mugen THE-78 (allegedly the individually luthier-built versions of the respected Daion THE-78 fromt he Yamaki factory) and it was TOO harsh and clangy.

I use them on the best of my Hagstrom J-45s - they give it a lovely shimmering bell-like quality.

I use EZ-Peg brass pegs on my second-best Hagstrom J-45 and while they do add shimmer the bass is now not round enough in comparison.

I tried them in my Martin OM-1 and it was not a happy combination.


14 Sep 06 - 05:08 AM (#1834155)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,Bruce Baillie

...I used to have some in the Yamaha I used to own and they were fine, dunno what the hell I did with them? maybe I sold them with the guitar? I should really get some more and try them on my Andrew Whale Parlour Guitar.


14 Sep 06 - 01:12 PM (#1834486)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: English Jon

I have a tak EF407 - a Koa 00 copy basically,

Magic little guitar (if a bit quiet) but i felt the EADGB strings were great and the low E was like playing inside a sock, so I bunged a brass pin in and left the other (plastic) pins where they were. sorted the problem out a treat.

However - I'm looking to experiment with pins a bit. Can anyone tell me your experiences with rosewood/ebony/bone/follilized mamoth ivory/plutonium/camembert etc?

Actually, if anyone can explain simply what the physics of it all is, I'd be most grateful.

Cheers,
Jon


15 Sep 06 - 06:04 AM (#1835076)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge

The physics seem to be a matter of heated debate without any agreement!


15 Sep 06 - 09:16 AM (#1835209)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Big Al Whittle

yes I tried them - didn't get on with them. I used the Ibanez ones I think there are better ones. In fact I've probably got two or three spare sets - if anybody wants them - I dont.


15 Sep 06 - 09:37 AM (#1835221)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Midchuck

Never tried brass.

Bone: makes many guitars too bright, but good if the original tone is darker and "woodier" than you like. Sounds as though brass would be the same.

Ebony: Makes many guitars too dark and woody, but good if the original tone is brighter than you like.

Boxwood: NICE!

Peter


15 Sep 06 - 10:18 AM (#1835247)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Cool Beans

I'm trying to get a handle on this. Do the terms "Bright" and "dark" (or "woody")equate to the sounds produced by "new" and "old" strings? "Pingy" vs. "thunky" or some such?


15 Sep 06 - 11:30 AM (#1835307)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Larkin

if you want to brighten the sound and also even up the any dead spots, then the groove tube fat finger is fantastic - for £20 it's tranformed my already pretty stunning Taylor.

martin


15 Sep 06 - 11:44 AM (#1835327)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: leftydee

Bright to me is very clear, dark would be more muted. Similar to new vs old strings, I guess.


15 Sep 06 - 11:53 AM (#1835334)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: dick greenhaus

All right-I'll bite. What is a groove tube fat finger?


15 Sep 06 - 01:58 PM (#1835432)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GLoux

Groove Tube Fatfinger


15 Sep 06 - 03:25 PM (#1835490)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Kaleea

hmmm. Now I'm wondering if I should try a set of brass pins on my old 1964 Gibson J-45, which has the adjustable bridge made of rosewood-the saddle is rosewood which, of course, really eats the sound. Since I've always preferred to accompany myself singing with fingerpicking, and mics were normally available to me for performances, I didn't mind the subdued sound so much. However, it would be nice if the sound would project a little better.


15 Sep 06 - 04:11 PM (#1835546)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Murray MacLeod

Kaleea, wouldn't the simple and obvious solution to your problem be to replace the rosewood saddle with a bone saddle, before experimenting with the pins ?

Better still, get a luthier to replace the bridge with a proper bridge without all the metal adjustable gubbins, which eats the sound as well.

Adjustable bridge PLUS rosewood saddle, the mind boggles !!


16 Sep 06 - 09:44 AM (#1835962)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: cptsnapper

I've got a Thornbory Knighton 120 & I use brass pins & either D'Addario 80/20 or 85/15 strings & the combination is fine for me: the guitar is quite heavy & it needed more edge for my taste. I knew someone who had a Gibson who kept the original pins but tried the 85/15s but ended up with much too" bright " a sound.


17 Sep 06 - 06:32 AM (#1836530)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: kendall

What's the price of these pegs?


18 Sep 06 - 03:24 AM (#1837167)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Strollin' Johnny

John Pearse Kingpins - bell-brass and with a little 'Parisian Eye' decoration on the head. Look and sound the dog's bolleaux.

Kendall - they're about 40 USD from Elderly, for a set of seven (one spare!) and a matching endpin.
Rgds,
S:0)


18 Sep 06 - 03:27 AM (#1837169)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge

A set of the plain JSD ones is I think about GBP10 (ish) in the UK. E-Z Pegs were I think about $30 shipped from USA to UK.


18 Sep 06 - 05:45 PM (#1837736)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,12-String Sicko

I've been using brass bridge pins on my Taylor 355 for about six years now. I do like a bright, brassy tone and they work just fine.
An old Tennessee troubador told me, "Yore gui-tar sounds like bells a'ringin'!"


19 Sep 06 - 04:28 PM (#1838600)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: leftydee

I paid less than $7.00 for the set.. good investment, in my view.


20 Sep 06 - 03:50 PM (#1839416)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Sean Belt

I put brass pins on my Gibson J-45 many years ago and never went back. They really help the sound a lot, brightening it while not diminishing the bass at all. Now I have a bright, boomey instrument. I recently picked up a nice early 60's LG-0 and am looking to install either brass of bone pins at the next string change.


21 Sep 06 - 02:27 PM (#1840200)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Bert

Why didn't you buy a bright boomey instrument in the first place?


21 Sep 06 - 06:12 PM (#1840325)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge

Instruments start life new. They may develop their voices with some age if played. Then, and not till then, do you know what they sound like. Smartarse.


22 Sep 06 - 06:48 AM (#1840678)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Strollin' Johnny

What Richard said.


22 Sep 06 - 03:37 PM (#1841023)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Bert

...Smartarse... LOL.

I know, I know, I was having a bit of fun at the expense of those who take their guitars too seriously.

But actually I DID buy a bright boomey instrument for myself because it suits my style of playing. It has a plywood (Laminated for the guitar snobs) top which will not change so much with age.


22 Sep 06 - 06:41 PM (#1841151)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Strollin' Johnny

A smiley placed after your comment would have let everyone know you were just funnin'. Otherwise it just looks like a smart-arse comment!
No harm done.
S:0)


24 Sep 06 - 09:13 AM (#1841985)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,Ray

A luhtier friend of mine recommends brass pins when the brightness of tone is lost after, say, shaving the bridge (reducing its mass) to delay the need for a neck re-set. The older amongst us will also remember the fashion for replacing bone nuts with brass. Basically, its all down to wight distribution. If you add mass to the head of a guitar, it changes the sound, increasing sustain. The simplest way of doing this is to add a G-clamp to the head. Similarly add weight to the bridge and you change the tone and sustain. Brass bridge pins are probably the simplest and most elegant solution.


24 Sep 06 - 11:28 AM (#1842066)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge

THe vibrating mass is certainly the whole of the top, and may (maybe) include the headstock although to a much lesser degree. I would be pretty surprised if the change in mass of a little saddle strip would make much difference. And and increase in mass would reduce the resonant frequency (obviously) so rendering the tone less bright, not more so.


24 Sep 06 - 11:59 AM (#1842086)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,Ray

The late lamented "Frets Magazine" did an exhaustive analysis of the brass nut phenomenon at the time. I don't know of an analysis of bridge pins - its easy enough to try it yourself - although it does make some sense. Yes, the vibrating mass is the whole top but the heaviest part of this, which receives the initial momentum, is the bridge. If you add mass to this, it will, at least alter the characteristics of the sound. The received wisdom, which came from an experienced UK luthier, is that it makes it brighter.


24 Sep 06 - 03:43 PM (#1842251)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Richard Bridge

I agree that brass bridge pins and/or a brass saddle make a guitar brighter. The changes in mass do not provide a convincing explanation for the phenomonon so what can it be?


25 Sep 06 - 03:31 AM (#1842637)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Bert

what can it be? ... Brass monkeys maybe?


25 Sep 06 - 07:50 AM (#1842743)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler

Perhaps someone should check with Terry Pratchett that no-one has stolen the brass bridge and melted it down to make pins.

Is it just the way I read things?


25 Sep 06 - 07:02 PM (#1843251)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Big Al Whittle

Actually I swear by using crocodiles teeth as bridge pins. I fitted them last week and there really is no substitute - many people have remarked on the bright boomy, yet subtly captivating tone - that comes from using 6 matching 10th incisors. Of course you have to kill three crocodiles to get a full set, and even now there are natives in loin cloths diving in Ausralian rivers to try and sort me out a set for my 12 string.

My 1959 Rosetti Skiffle guitar has never sounded so good - not since I sent for it out of the small ads in the back of Titbits. People said I was crazy spending as much as £4.19sh 11d on a guitar when I couldn't even play it, but now I feel vindicated.


25 Sep 06 - 07:45 PM (#1843276)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: McGrath of Harlow

Human teeth would work as well. Save them as you lose them, and then when you're ancient you can announce proudly "I've still got all my teeth" - and pull out your guitar to prove it.


26 Sep 06 - 01:34 AM (#1843432)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Bert

Of course, if its the weight that makes the difference then lead ones would be even better.


26 Sep 06 - 01:21 PM (#1843850)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: Big Al Whittle

ah yes, but where would you find a crocodile with lead teeth?


29 Sep 06 - 12:31 PM (#1846071)
Subject: RE: tried brass bridge pins?
From: GUEST,rugburn

I have ebony pins in my Yamaha, and I honestly can't say whether they changed the sound noticably. I did it for appearance, and the fact that I hate the standard little plastic pins.
I have my Alvarez 12-string in the hospital right now, getting the Fishburn Matrix Natural preamp/pickup system installed, and Stephen is getting me a set (2 actually) of brass pins to replace the previously noted plastics. I can't wait to hear it, but I may change to ebony pins if it's too bright...the 12 string already shimmers as it is...

rugburn®


06 Sep 08 - 07:26 AM (#2432499)
Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: Jeri

A minuscule amount maybe. Mostly, they're shiny.


06 Sep 08 - 07:41 AM (#2432507)
Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: alex s

I've used stainless steel - bright (and shiny) but now I use ebony.


06 Sep 08 - 07:47 AM (#2432510)
Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: HarleySpirit

Oh yah!
Made a big difference to my Washburn. Increased sustain considerably.
...and yes, they look great!


06 Sep 08 - 07:48 AM (#2432512)
Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: HarleySpirit

Brass Pins that is!


06 Sep 08 - 08:29 AM (#2432527)
Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: Big Al Whittle

whats the new ones/

i had some Ibanez ones and they were shite. I notice that Alan Marshall fits brass pins to his new guitars and Alan knows a thing or two about guitars.


06 Sep 08 - 09:08 AM (#2432545)
Subject: RE: Brass bridge pins
From: HarleySpirit

Try these brass TONE PINS found at this site!

www.dandreapicks.com

They worked for me!


06 Sep 08 - 11:44 AM (#2432626)
Subject: RE: Tried Brass Bridge Pins?
From: catspaw49

Not sure why you refreshed this Jeri, but there is also a few good posts to THIS THREAD as well. I need to add it to the others at the top.

I gather from your response that you must have tried some. Bridge pins as has been oft noted make only a small difference in sound but there can be some difference nonetheless. The thing I've always noticed and others have said as well is that changes made to a good instrument will generally have some effect but changes made to a POS will rarely do so. Gets back to the silk purse/sow's ear thing I suppose..........

Spaw


21 Nov 08 - 10:30 PM (#2499768)
Subject: RE: Tried Brass Bridge Pins?
From: kendall

I went to buy a set of bone pins today, but they were $20.00. The brass pins were $10.00.
They make my Taylor louder, which it didn't really need.


22 Nov 08 - 03:41 AM (#2499867)
Subject: RE: Tried Brass Bridge Pins?
From: Silas

I put a set of Tusq pins in my Sigma D28 - incredible!


22 Nov 08 - 07:19 AM (#2499926)
Subject: RE: Tried Brass Bridge Pins?
From: banjoman

I fitted a set of brass pins in my Lakewood- a guitar which I bought as one of the first they made some years ago- it always had a brilliant tone but lacked something in terms of resonance. The brass pins were fitted really as a cosmetic exercise when the originals became discoloured for some reason. The result was amazing and its like having a new guitar - BP's may not be everyones cu of tea but as they are reasonably cheap well worth a try
Pete


22 Nov 08 - 04:24 PM (#2500257)
Subject: RE: Tried Brass Bridge Pins?
From: bubblyrat

I have them in my Avalon,and have done for about 6 years now.I wouldn't be without them.Having said that,they don't seem to work with my Martin MC 16.Perhaps it's the wood ??----the Martin is spruce,the Avalon cedar.Whatever the case,I prefer the sound of the Avalon ! I have them also in my Samick 12-string,and that works,too.But they need polishing regularly---every time I change strings(which is often) out comes the Brasso !