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5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires

16 Feb 05 - 04:01 AM (#1411585)
Subject: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: beardedbruce

5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
Tuesday, February 15, 2005

MILWAUKEE — Five Democratic campaign staffers — including the sons of a congresswoman and a former city official — were ordered Tuesday to stand trial for allegedly vandalizing Republican get-out-the-vote vans on Election Day.

The five are accused of slashing the tires of 25 vans rented by the state GOP to drive voters and monitors to the polls. The felony charge carries a maximum punishment of 3 1/2 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. Arraignment was set for March 4.

The defendants include the sons of Wisconsin Rep. Gwen Moore (search) and former acting Mayor Marvin Pratt (search).

At a preliminary hearing, Levar Stoney and Opel Simmons, two Democratic presidential campaign workers sent to Wisconsin in the final weeks of the campaign, testified they were in the Milwaukee headquarters when the five left just after 3 a.m. Election Day and returned shortly after.

"They seemed to be excited, excitable, kind of gleeful, laughing and kind of joking," Simmons said.

Stoney said Michael Pratt (search), the former acting mayor's son, talked about slashing a couple of tires, and Moore's son, Sowande Omokunde, also talked about the vandalism. He said at least one had a knife; he could not recall which one.


Defense attorneys suggested Stoney and Simmons were also part of an alleged plan to plaster the GOP office and property with Kerry-Edwards (search) signs and bumper stickers before polls opened. Prosecutors contend the five defendants came up with the tire-slashing plan after a security guard was posted at the GOP office.
    I changed the thread title. The previous title was "Friends of Amos," which made the thread appear to be a personal attack.
    -Joe Offer-


16 Feb 05 - 08:53 AM (#1411682)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: GUEST,Charley Noble

Well, I for one hope they are all hanged.

Charley Noble


16 Feb 05 - 08:57 AM (#1411685)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: GUEST,Rapaire

I hope that they are all hanged, drawn, and quartered and their remains burnt and thrown into Lake Michigan, after which all records of their existence are expunged and anyone who knew them brainwashed.

This isn't new news....


16 Feb 05 - 09:06 AM (#1411691)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: GUEST

Yeah, and they should punish the kids that slashed the tires, too!!!


16 Feb 05 - 09:19 AM (#1411695)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: GUEST,Azizi

Oh, yes, let's take one person's word and hope that the accused persons "are all hanged, drawn, and quartered and their remains burnt and thrown into Lake Michigan, after which all records of their existence are expunged and anyone who knew them brainwashed."

???!!!

Isn't that a tad EXCESSIVE for this ALLEGED crime?

Are you advocating a return of the American custom of LYNCHING?? Maybe you have forgotten or never knew that sometimes after lynching bodies were mutilated such as you described.

Furthermore, what happened to the treasured American standard of justice that a person is INNOCENT until proven guilty.

Is this what America has come to???

And what in the world does this have to do with Amos??!

I am disappointed and FURIOUS that in 2005 some people are still promoting the act of hanging, drawing, quartering, burning remains, and throwing them away like excess garbage..

This is not a racial thing.

This is a HUMAN thing.

If this thread was started with the intent of light Republican vs Democrat humor and ribbing, I for one am not laughing.

Ms. Azizi


16 Feb 05 - 09:57 AM (#1411716)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: GUEST,Amos

I asked Joe to delete this thread as a personal attack. It is too late, I suppose.

But BBruce, I am disappointed. This was beneath you, and if this is representative of your logical processes, I need offer no further comment.

I expect you will come to your senses about it, though. I hope so.

I have many friends here. I have many friends in real space as well.

None of them are anything like the people you have written about in your post. None of them would expect that sort of caper from me or any of my friends. You should know better, and I am sorry you did not.

You are for sure one broke-dick mammalucca.

A


16 Feb 05 - 10:22 AM (#1411728)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: GUEST

I agree with Amos. This thread title is totally inappropriate. And B.Bruce, you're slow on the attack anyway, this is an OLD story.

"Bad winners" is what folks like BeardedBruce are being called these days. No one has cornered the market on virtue, or on crime. Many of us are not naive enough to think that our own party is perfect, or that everyone will behave well. BB trying to hang Amos in the immature behavior of some folks in Wisconsin is a petty, mean-spirited move. Not that this is out of character for BBruce, but it is something that needs to be cleaned up.

SRS


16 Feb 05 - 10:26 AM (#1411732)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Peace

Amos is a man I am honoured to consider a good friend. This thread is shit, IMO. Thought you were better than that, BB. Guess not.

Azizi, Rapaire is one of the craziest, kindest and more intelligent people on the 'cat. His remarks were tongue in cheek.


16 Feb 05 - 10:31 AM (#1411740)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: GUEST,SRS

It is enough to see that name "Rapaire" to know that you must broaden your settings and consider several possibilities when interpreting his posts (the BS factor is high on the list, followed by sarcastic wit, then ironic intent, but do not forget the scholarly reference librarian underpinning).

He wouldn't really want to see all of those things happen. Worst he'd call for is to maybe put them to a little hard labor, digging those chest freezers out from under his back porch. . .

SRS


16 Feb 05 - 10:33 AM (#1411742)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Peace

I think, however, that there should be a middle ground between the punishments suggested by Charley Noble and Rapaire. Is there a way we could work rusty nails into their punishment?


16 Feb 05 - 10:34 AM (#1411747)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: SINSULL

Oh dear - a joke gone bad. Amos, you know I love you. Trust me when I say the Bearded One meant this as a friendly jibe. How about we let it drop and I will help you plan some appropriate prank for the Getaway? Nair maybe or a gentle waxing? OK with you, Bruce?


16 Feb 05 - 10:36 AM (#1411749)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Jerry Rasmussen

I read this thread differently.

I am a friend of Amos.

You talkin' about me?

Jerry


16 Feb 05 - 10:42 AM (#1411752)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: rumanci

I'd hate to be the subject of an "unfriendly jibe" from you BB - and nor should my friends have to receive them
rumanci


16 Feb 05 - 10:43 AM (#1411753)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Alaska Mike

I count Amos among my list of friends as well.

Mike


16 Feb 05 - 10:49 AM (#1411761)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: khandu

I don't know the bearded one; never have shared posting with him. I assumed upon reading his post that it was meant as friendly barb...howbeit, an odd one.

I have let my humor get a bit over the line in the Cafe a few times & thought Bb had done the same. If it was meant viciously, it will become apparent soon enough.

Dear Rapaire in fine form , was showing the ignorance of certain mentalities by taken them to the extreme.

Friends of Amos? Practically all of Mudcat holds him in high esteem & would delight in having him as a friend!

k


16 Feb 05 - 10:51 AM (#1411762)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Rapparee

Amos is a friend of mine, too. You got a problem with that? Wanna step outside? Guns, fists, knives, swords, or just a good old fashioned cursing contest -- real curses, not namby-pamby namecalling...your choice.


16 Feb 05 - 10:55 AM (#1411768)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Áine

If this were a joke, it ain't funny.

Amos is my next-best friend of the male persuasion (my first best, of course, being my husband). I can understand how this kind of joke could seem funny in one's head; however, I think it should have stayed there.

But aren't we all guilty of some mighty, mighty faux pas at one time or another in our lives? Goodness knows I'm not going to be the first one in line to throw stones -- I've got enough cracks in my glass house already!

-- Áine


16 Feb 05 - 11:18 AM (#1411805)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Amos

OK, Sins, I'll consider it dropped. I'll bring the Nair. :)

You guys are the best. Thanks very, very much; your posts mean a lot to me.


A


16 Feb 05 - 11:21 AM (#1411815)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Stilly River Sage

It's Bb's history of annoying, ill-thought-out posts that has me reading this as a dig, not a gentle gibe or a teasing riposte. I too opened it originally thinking it was some homage to Amos. Instead here was an article about some Democratic pranksters who didn't have the good sense to leave the Republican election folks alone, and they'll pay for their crimes. It's the "guilt by association" dig that Bb was aiming at (though he may protest the matter now--anyone who has been at Mudcat over the last year knows how Bb does business, and it usually is a poorly-formed argument and countless rebuttals).

I don't think we need a thread that attempts to shackle Amos with the poor-spirited acts of the dunces in Wisconsin. And we don't need an endictment of Beardedbruce thread either, though this is likely to evolve into one if it doesn't go away pretty soon.

SRS


16 Feb 05 - 11:22 AM (#1411820)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: SINSULL

And I will bring the hot wax! heh heh Another prank hatched. And it was so easy to suck Amos into it.


16 Feb 05 - 11:23 AM (#1411821)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: GUEST,Giok

We loves ya baby.


16 Feb 05 - 11:26 AM (#1411827)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Little Hawk

Yes! I am a friend of Amos. Amos is great. He is a man who should serve as an inspiration to all of us. Thanks for thinking of this worthy subject and bringing together the many friends of Amos, Bearded Bruce. :-)


16 Feb 05 - 11:43 AM (#1411864)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Once Famous

OK, forget about Amos.

what do you other radicals think of this that BB posted? If it was the other way around, I am sure you would be doing the usual howling.


16 Feb 05 - 11:47 AM (#1411872)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Azizi

Brucie, thanks for the head's up.

Rapaire, I'm sorry for taking literally your words upthread that were written in sarcasm. Please accept my apology for misunderstanding your intent.

I've mentioned before that sometimes I'm slow on the uptake when it comes to wit and humor. I gotta work on that...

Azizi


16 Feb 05 - 11:53 AM (#1411882)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Peace

IMO, the problem isn't slashed tires, per se; it is, rather, people who hang around on the streets carrying knives. Frankly, I don't see things like Watergate as being specifically Republican peculiarities. They are human and definitely stupid. Stupidity isn't confined to a specific part of the political spectrum.


16 Feb 05 - 11:54 AM (#1411885)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: hesperis

Well, I do know that in Indiana, cars with "vote kerry"-type stickers on them often had the stickers taken off again and again. I hadn't heard of any specific vandalism but there were several people worried that their car would be vandalized if they put a kerry sticker on it. I didn't hear any worries about bush stickers.

But what the actions of people on the lunatic fringe willing to obstruct democracy by vandalizing vehicles involved in the process have to do with either party, or with Amos, is rather beyond me. Isn't it just plain stupid to obstruct those with different beliefs, no matter what your beliefs are? Would you be happy that someone vandalized cars, as long as they were the "enemy" cars?

I'm a friend of Amos. And being a friend of his has nothing to do with my political beliefs.


16 Feb 05 - 12:28 PM (#1411929)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Don Firth

I don't know Amos personally, but from his posts, I know him to be thoughtful and well-informed. He has the courage and incentive to advocate his views strongly, along with plenty of citations and documentation to back up what he says—something that not everybody seems to be able to do.   Some people here on Mudcat who don't share that viewpoint, or perhaps especially Amos's backing up what he posts with documentation, seem to feel impelled to attack him as a person rather than attempt to present rational, well-documented arguments of their own. This is the sort of thing one expects from those who operate on their gut-reactions rather than from positions arrived at through a rigorous thought process.   

That was a cheap shot.

Don Firth


16 Feb 05 - 12:33 PM (#1411937)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: GUEST,~S~

I think this qualifies as the Official Opening of Silly Season-- that annual season at Mudcat when we do the dumbest things for the silliest reasons, and spark off a round of upset among all the rest of the gang-- it's really cabin fever laced with a little SAD and CRS! It's usually best (in Silly Season) to just roll one's eyes and let "it" (whatever the manifestation) just go.

C'mon, old regulars-- admit it. It's Silly Season! No avoiding it.

~S~


16 Feb 05 - 12:41 PM (#1411946)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Bert

Martin, how can we forget about Amos, he's our buddy.

That's why everyone is a bit miffed at beardedbruce.

When I first read the thread, I didn't take it as a specific dig against Amos. I felt that it could easily have been any of our Democrat posters.

As for the tire slashing. A mean spirited act of vandalism. And that is what everyone is saying when they rush to the defence of Amos.


16 Feb 05 - 12:48 PM (#1411957)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: kendall

First, Amos is a friend of mine.
Second, IF that charge of vandalism is true they should be punished in a manner that fits the crime. What they did hardly rises to the level of what the republicans did in Florida, driving blacks away from the polls, removing their names from the voting lists etc.


16 Feb 05 - 12:49 PM (#1411959)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Rapparee

Martin, slashing tires is vandalism. I'm against that and think that WHOEVER does it should be punished. Maybe not hung, drawn and quartered, but punished. And I don't care if it were Howard Dean, Jena Bush, or Ralph Nader.


16 Feb 05 - 12:51 PM (#1411963)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: jimmyt

I enjoy Amos around here and have nothing against BB, but honestly, I sort of took the whole thing tongue in cheek and would be surprised if there was more of an agenda than just that. If I am wrong, you can just say,"well there is another obtuse Conservative."

Whomever did this act of vandalism is a vandal. Wrong is wrong, whether it is one party or the other.

But, back to the thread title, Bearded Bruce, if it was a joke, why not just say so and everyone will put away the brass knuckles and get back to normal?


16 Feb 05 - 01:13 PM (#1412000)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Ebbie

There is one major difference between the 'liberal' Democrats and the 'conservative' Republicans. Liberals make no bones or excuses about the legality or appropriateness of vandalizing cars for whatever reason. I suspect that if it were the conservatives responding to one of their own, we'd hear totally different reasoning.

I too hope that this thread was meant as a goodnatured jab to the ribs. Anything else would be nastier than usual. Judging by what outrages him, Amos is a thoughtful and articulate good man.


16 Feb 05 - 01:25 PM (#1412013)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Bill D

vandalism is vandalism, no matter whose tires were slashed......

but even suggesting that one of our members might approve of such idiocy is bad taste or careless phrasing.


16 Feb 05 - 01:35 PM (#1412031)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: annamill

Drat! I was just coming in to put my name on the long list and here it is a bad joke.

In my day, a long time ago, those "kids" would've been brought by their ears to their parents and Dad would kick their ass and make them pay for the damage and apologize.

Today, we put them in jail. That will make them better persons. (tongue in cheek) Yes, they should be strongly punished, but I have my doubts that prison would be the best teacher.

Along with all the others, I love you too, Amos.

Annamill


16 Feb 05 - 01:38 PM (#1412035)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: jacqui.c

I'll go with LH - this thread has shown the high esteem in which Amos is held on this site.

Sins - include me in on the Getaway mischief here. More victims!


16 Feb 05 - 02:05 PM (#1412072)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: SINSULL

Ebbie, Dear Lady. You say "I suspect that if it were the conservatives responding to one of their own, we'd hear totally different reasoning." Have you forgotten Watergate?

And we're off...


16 Feb 05 - 02:22 PM (#1412088)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: McGrath of Harlow

Actually "Friends of Amos" has a great ring to it. Sort of Old Testament Vigilantes. John Brown style, with a wild-eyes prophet bringing on the Day of Wrath...


16 Feb 05 - 02:32 PM (#1412107)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Ebbie

Evidently I have forgotten Watergate, Sins. Are you saying that it was the Republicans who were outraged at the stupidity of the breakin and the Democrats who said, Oh, that's OK?


16 Feb 05 - 02:57 PM (#1412136)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Peace

The problem is that crime is crime and not the exclusive 'property' of any given political group. The Reps had Nixon and the Dems had Clinton. Yippee. What a joy is democracy and appealing to the lowest common denominator.


16 Feb 05 - 03:06 PM (#1412145)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Rapparee

I dunno about "common denominator" but it sure appeals to the lowest sometimes.


16 Feb 05 - 03:16 PM (#1412156)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Bobert

Well, I told Amos that if he was gonna slash them tires that it'd come back to bite him, but would he listen to me???

Heck no, and now he's payin' the price...

Bad, Amos, bad...

Now repent and slash no more...

Rev. Bobert


16 Feb 05 - 03:41 PM (#1412191)
Subject: RE: BS: Friends of Amos?
From: Don Firth

Ebbie, other way around. When the Republicans broke into Democratic headquarters in the Watergate Hotel and the Democrats howled about it, it was the Republicans who tried to stonewall, hush it up, and generally make it sound like a minor prank.

Don Firth


16 Feb 05 - 04:14 PM (#1412239)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Amos

LOL!

I have promised Joe I would go to the Getaway and make friends with BBruce.

Thanks, guys. I love you too.

Amos


16 Feb 05 - 04:25 PM (#1412255)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: PoppaGator

When some idiots commit this kind of prank/crime, isn't it worse when you learn they're from one's own "side"?

I, for one, enjoy news of this kind much more when I can blame it on "those other guys." I'm sure that's how BB was feeling when he so belatedly found this bit of old news.

Why single out Amos, though? Why not, for instance, me? I feel left out...

I suppose it because Amos is not only persistent but also so thorough and diligent in assembling evidence and documentation for his arguments ~ can't get to him via reasoned debate, so only a cheap shot will do.


16 Feb 05 - 04:33 PM (#1412266)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Once Famous

That's because Amos lives for this place.

this is his life, folks.

anyone who takes all of the time and trouble as he does shows how narrow an Internet life can be.

So he assembles loads of documentation proving a point here.

I'd rather just fuck around, have a good time, and do some other stuff that's life enhancing while he's trying to prove a point that will be an old topic tomorrow and no one will care.

Ah, the ENTERTAINMENT of it all.


16 Feb 05 - 04:37 PM (#1412271)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Bill D

BBruce is an amiable guy, Amos, as I know you are..*grin*....I don't 'think' I'll need to referee....besides, you both disagree with ME on lotsa stuff.


16 Feb 05 - 04:56 PM (#1412307)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Amos

Martin:

I don't live for the Mudcat.

But I have friends here, so I try to treat their slice of cyberspace with a bit of courtesy and respect, and, ya know, not pee in the soup.

You LIVE on peed-in soup.

A


16 Feb 05 - 05:25 PM (#1412336)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Charley Noble

And I for one think we ought to hang together!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


16 Feb 05 - 05:31 PM (#1412340)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: curmudgeon

Or we shall surely hang separately -- Tom (thanks to B. Franklin)


16 Feb 05 - 05:36 PM (#1412349)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Joe Offer

OK, so we have Amos going to the Getaway.

Now, if we could get Martin Gibson to go, we could smother him with warm fuzzies and turn him into a bleeding-heart liberal....

Well, come to think of it, warm fuzzies make me gag. As penance for suggesting such a thing, maybe I'd better go out and slash some tires.

-Joe Offer-


16 Feb 05 - 05:48 PM (#1412363)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Ebbie

I know, Don Firth. That is why I wondered what Sinsull was referring to.

Marvin, in another thread you mentioned the time-honored humo(u)r Jews have always used. You might consider the fact that their humor is famously self-deprecating. You don't seem to have internalized it.


16 Feb 05 - 06:25 PM (#1412420)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: SINSULL

My point was that the Democrats in this case stood up and were willing to testify against the accused criminals despite party affiliation. Under the Nixon administration lying to protect the accused burglars and their keepers tainted the very presidency.


16 Feb 05 - 06:29 PM (#1412428)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Peace

That and 18 minutes of tape.


16 Feb 05 - 06:59 PM (#1412474)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Ebbie

Ah. We're of the same opinion, which is what I thought.

I obviously did not make a clear statement with "There is one major difference between the 'liberal' Democrats and the 'conservative' Republicans. Liberals make no bones or excuses about the legality or appropriateness of vandalizing cars for whatever reason. I suspect that if it were the conservatives responding to one of their own, we'd hear totally different reasoning."

I meant that the liberals/Democrats are agreeing with the conservatives/Republicans as to the wrongness of the vandalism, and then further implying that the cons/Reps might not have the same reaction had it been Republican vandals.


16 Feb 05 - 07:47 PM (#1412521)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: akenaton

I just don't understand American thinking.
Is it some sort of insult to be referred to as "friends" of the people who slashed the tyres?

These people were protesting against an administration which instigated an "illegal" war for spurious reasons against a virtually unarmed sovereign nation ,resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.....and you're horrified about a few tyres?
   Now thats what I call CONDITIONING!!       Pathetic...Ake


16 Feb 05 - 07:57 PM (#1412524)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: akenaton

They used to talk of the inhabitants of communist countries as being "brainwashed"

Dont you people realise that if you don't start kicking back soon it will be too late.

I would say to Bearded Bruce that these people would certainly be my friends, and the question he poses, asks more of himself than of Amos.


17 Feb 05 - 02:29 AM (#1412744)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Ebbie

akenaton, you're missing the message big time. The allegation is that aides/volunteers/whatever of the Democratic Party went out and slashed tires of vehicles that were meant to take registered Republicans to the polls the next day. In every election both sides want to get out the vote; dirty tricks to keep the other side home is definitely NOT part of the democratic process.

Dirty tricks in elections have been discovered from time to time- notably in Nixon's time - but we, the people, frown on it. Not to mention that if one side does it, the other side will do something worse and it escalates from there.


17 Feb 05 - 03:38 AM (#1412784)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: akenaton

Ebbie....I didn't really miss the message.

My point is that we DONT have a democratic process.

In the UK and USA, people have stayed in their "democratic" boxes too long. Why do the ordinary people always have to play fair ,while those who rule us do the opposite.
There used to be an argument which said that any protest only makes matters worse,but both our societies are now set on a course which must be protested against ,regardless of the consequences.


17 Feb 05 - 03:49 AM (#1412791)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Teresa

Yes, indeed, Akenaton, those are revolution words, and I have to say I agree with them. I don't think most people do, however. It'll take some travelling into much harder times, I'm afraid, before folks start protesting on a grand scale.

That said, I was going to post here that I think this and the other thread, which I accidentally posted my comment on, are silly sniping, and we don't need it.

I want to meet both these 'catters at the getaway. :)

Teresa


17 Feb 05 - 05:36 AM (#1412848)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow

Gesture politics like that isn't "revolution", it's just a way of playing. Rolling Stones "Street Fighting Man" stuff.


17 Feb 05 - 11:18 AM (#1412981)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: GUEST

MG said That's because Amos lives for this place.

this is his life, folks.


The pot is calling the kettle black these days, eh?


17 Feb 05 - 02:12 PM (#1413142)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: akenaton

McGrath...Like yourself , I marched with the hundreds of thousands against the war.
We marched in an orderly manner to the rallying point, where we heard a few speaches from a few politicians,then in an orderly manner, we went home for our tea.
The end of the 15th Feb Anti War march was a complete anti- climax.
We had so much raw emotion amongst the crowd, and we squandered it, the government continued to lie and manipulate, in fact they completely ignored us.

Looking back on the demonstrations of the past, the ones that made the difference were those where force was used, damage caused ,and a signal given that the people would fight for what they believe in.

Our rulers are quite happy to keep us fooled that we can achieve anything by "democratic means".
They dont like it when we jump out of the box..Ake


17 Feb 05 - 02:28 PM (#1413167)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: McGrath of Harlow

I can't remember it working like that, akenaten. Tokenism isn't really that effective, and that's what that kind of thing is. Now, if we'd been able just to stop where we were in Whitehall, and refuse to go home, that might have got things moving, but the kind of symbolic street heroics that just trashes the place is a waste of time, and presents no kind of problem to the authorities.

They know how to deal with that stuff. In fact, it's what they want to see happen. It's not jumping out of the box, it's jumping into the box.


17 Feb 05 - 05:57 PM (#1413388)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: DougR

The tires were on vehicles that the local GOP had rented to transport voters who needed a ride to the polls. Because they were not available on election day, many people were deprived of being able to vote.

The Kerry lovers on the Mudcat have ranted and raved about Democrats who were allegedly deprived of voting for one reason or another (not enough voting machines, not enough time, not enough ballots, etc.) Why don't we hear those same people ranting and raving about this injustice?

DougR


17 Feb 05 - 07:01 PM (#1413464)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Ebbie

Because, Mister Bright Bulb, "raving and ranting" is not productive. We spoke against it- isn't that good enough? You want us to go out and slash some of our own tires?


17 Feb 05 - 07:04 PM (#1413467)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: McGrath of Harlow

One reason for the different scale of reaction might be the different scale of the offence.   

When people interfere with elections - either in this daft way, or in the organised and coordinated way it is sometimes done, where tens of thousands of peole are deprived of the vote by corrupt officials - that is an offence to all honest citizens, regardless of their voting preferance.

I would quite agree with Doug that, if people see that kind of thing as excusable or unimportant, just because their own side might benefit, that is disgraceful. In fact, when it their own side that benefits, that is the time an honourable citizen will get most angry. Don't you agree, Doug? Wasn't that why you were so vociferous in denouncing that kind of thing, for example in regards to what happened in Florida in 2000?


17 Feb 05 - 07:35 PM (#1413498)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: akenaton

McGrath I think most people know that we are well and trully in the box, mainly through economic reasons.
Many people I know are working up to 80hr weeks to pay credit bill ,morgage payments and living expenses.

In all my life I'v never seen so many people with two or even three jobs.

Oh yes we're in the box all right,and the way out isn't the one marked "democracy".

If we want a better life for our people in the future, we'll have to kick that bloody box to pieces..Ake


17 Feb 05 - 10:35 PM (#1413659)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: DougR

Yes, McGrath, I agree with you (where that leaves Ebbie, I'm not quite sure). Dirty tricks committed by either party to prevent people from exercising their voting right is wrong.

DougR


18 Feb 05 - 04:44 AM (#1413845)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: McGrath of Harlow

"Dirty tricks committed by either party to prevent people from exercising their voting right is wrong."

That is a principle to hold on to like a lifebelt. For example if there is ever again something like Florida 2000 - by either party.


18 Feb 05 - 09:12 AM (#1413935)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: GUEST,Amos

Hear, hear, hear, DougR.

A


18 Feb 05 - 02:07 PM (#1414158)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: kendall

Why you ask, Doug? Simple. Because that incident involved a handful of people. What the republicans did in Florida was a much bigger issue, they screwed thousands out of their right to vote.

The thing is (and I agree with Doug that what they did is dead wrong) it seems like most people just pay lip service to the dirty deed IF it is the other party, and if it's THEIR party, they go nuts!

In other words, sure he's a scoudrel, but he's OUR scoundrel. Classic case of, it makes a difference whose ox is gored.


18 Feb 05 - 02:17 PM (#1414166)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Nerd

DougR says:

The tires were on vehicles that the local GOP had rented to transport voters who needed a ride to the polls. Because they were not available on election day, many people were deprived of being able to vote.

Any evidence of this, DougR? Are you sure the GOP didn't just go and rent some more vans?


18 Feb 05 - 02:41 PM (#1414190)
Subject: RE: 5 Dems to Stand Trial for Slashing GOP Tires
From: Auggie

Numerous articles in the somewhat liberal, definately not Republican Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal newspaper support Doug R's contention.