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BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???

27 Feb 04 - 06:12 PM (#1125430)
Subject: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Dave the Gnome

Has anyone noticed the the UK seems to have taken to making immigrants swear a pledge of allegiance (see here).

While the US one is under the controversy of being unconstitutional? See another here.

Am I missing something? Is this happening? Did I dream it?

I guess good old blighty might not become the 51st state after all...

Cheers

DtG


27 Feb 04 - 06:21 PM (#1125436)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: McGrath of Harlow

If you're a migrant to Scotland, and want to become a loyal Scot, you'd maybe have doubts about swearing allegiance to the United Kingdom. Similarly in Wales to a less extent, and of course in Norrthern Ireland to a very considerable extent.

I can't see how making people swear an oath of allegiance to Crown and Country is really too calculated to integrate people to a population, large numbers of which would be unwilling to swear such an oath themselves.


27 Feb 04 - 06:27 PM (#1125441)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Dave the Gnome

Hehehe - What if you want to be an immigrant to Essex, Kevin? Or to Lancashire?

Imagine having to wear clogs or white shoes...

Cheers

DtG


27 Feb 04 - 07:55 PM (#1125492)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Gareth

Errr ! Isn't Kevin an immigrant to Essex ? - And he has my full sympathy !!!

Gareth


27 Feb 04 - 08:25 PM (#1125512)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: McGrath of Harlow

Maybe they could have an alternative option in which they could sing a suitable traditional song rather than God Save the Queen, and perform some traditional dance as well.

"Knees up Mother Brown" for New Londoners would do fine for both. I'm sure Ken Livingstone could throw his weight behind some initiatie like that.

When I was a boy, for some reason or other, I wanted to join the scouts, and at one point this entailed putting my hand on a Union Jack and swearing an oath of loyalty to God, Queen and Country. So I helf my hand a fraction away from the flag and made a mental reservation about the Queen and Country bit. That's a Jesuit education for you, you know about stuff like that.


27 Feb 04 - 09:51 PM (#1125546)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Raedwulf

Is it going to alienate anyone? I very much doubt it. Might it have a positive effect on some of the participants? Probably. Result? Net benefit. It may do nothing for many, but if it does something for some, it can't be a bad thing, and I can't honestly see a downside.


28 Feb 04 - 12:10 AM (#1125603)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Johnny in OKC

It's the "under God" bit that gives us trouble.
Just leave that out and you have no problem.

Love, Johnny


28 Feb 04 - 12:16 AM (#1125606)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: LadyJean

My best friend in high school was a Quaker. They don't take oaths. It's a Quaker no no. So she wouldn't say the Pledge of Allegiance. I think new immigrants to the United States take some kind of oath to uphold the constitution. I know those who join the U.S. armed forces, or work for the U.S. Census do, because I've worked for two censuses.


28 Feb 04 - 05:01 AM (#1125683)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: ced2

It's a good job those of us who were born here don't have to take this oath of allegiance, the concentration camps would be full!


28 Feb 04 - 06:02 PM (#1125938)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: McGrath of Harlow

I gather there's an option of affirming rather than swearing, like in court.

But the point that asking people to swear allegiance to "the United Kingdom" is not a neutral thing to require, especially in Northern Ireland remains. I don't know if they are planning to modify this ceremony over there, but they need to.


28 Feb 04 - 09:02 PM (#1126033)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Peace

There has been a push in Canadian schools to play the National Anthem every day, and the school I teach in says the "Lord's Prayer" every day. As a child, I recall TV signing off every night with "God Save the Queen." Countries love to have patriots, but then it would be really stupid to allow people to become Americans, Canadians, etc., if they wanted to overthrow the country's government. If "under God' is the issue, take it out.


28 Feb 04 - 09:07 PM (#1126034)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Richard Bridge

The whole thing is rather tacky, and not at all stiff upper lip.

Blunkett is absolutely off his trolley.


06 Mar 04 - 08:46 PM (#1130629)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: GUEST,Abdul

Makes it easier to be done for Treason as well (should the need arise), I would imagine