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109 messages

A Message for Gargoyle

29 Dec 03 - 10:35 AM (#1081509)
Subject: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Jerry Rasmussen

Joe: If you want to eliminate this thread, that's your choice. I was upset about the thread attacking Gargoyle and wanted to send him a PM but the only Mudcat name that came up was Gargoyle Hunter. I don't know if that's "Gargoyle" or not.

I just wanted to speak on behalf of Gargoyle. I know that most of his posts are insulting, and I've been turned off by them as much as anyone. But, Gargoyle is a person, not a Gargoyle. There have been times in every one of our lives when we've been Gargoyles, too... times when we've been angry, felt rejected and unloveable. That's when you feel like hurting somemone else, because you're hurting. When you're in that state of mind and heart, there are only two ways to go... become more bitter and isolated, or let people into your heart. A good friend will speak out against the actions but seek some common ground where bitterness can be laid aside on both sides.

So, if you read this Gargoyle, I've appreciated a couple of positive comments that you've made on threads that I've started. As far as I'm concerned, you behavior isn't welcome here, but YOU are! If you PM me, I be glad to share some music with you.

We're all in this together.

Brother Jerry


29 Dec 03 - 11:13 AM (#1081529)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: John MacKenzie

While making allowances for John9 from Hull, I totally agree with you Jerry, and I think the attack on Gargoyle was inappropriate.
John


29 Dec 03 - 11:14 AM (#1081530)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: C-flat

Well said Jerry. I was upset to see that thread here too and, although there will always be disagreements and the occassional insult hurled in the normal course of some topics of discussion, to create a thread to attack any individual seems inappropriate on this forum. I'm pleased to see it has now been closed.


29 Dec 03 - 11:35 AM (#1081538)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Jerry Rasmussen

Hey, John9 is my brother, too..

Jerry


29 Dec 03 - 11:48 AM (#1081553)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Bill D

ummm...Jerry....your 'family' gatherings must be interesting- ;>)


29 Dec 03 - 11:52 AM (#1081557)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Jerry Rasmussen

Never a dull moment, Bill! Maybe I'll videotape the next one.. :-)

Jerry


29 Dec 03 - 12:06 PM (#1081567)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: McGrath of Harlow

Seemed a fair enough comment on the part of John of Hull, the humour took the edge off it. Quite goodnatured really. And gargoyle does rather ask for it. I can't imagine that he'd have had any complaint about it.

I think it may be that insulting each other in that kind of way is seen as a more normal way of social interaction here than across the Atlantic.

Australia seems to play by similar rules, or maybe a bit rougher. I quote from a previous post I made one time:

There's the story about the cricket tour in Austalia back in the 30s at a time when "bastard" as an insult was a lot more serious in England than it is now. The English captain complains to the Australian captain that one of the Ozzies has called one of his men "a bastard".

The Australian captain apologises, and calls his team together. "Now which one of you bastards was it called that English bastard a bastard?" he asks."


29 Dec 03 - 12:09 PM (#1081570)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Rapparee

I've disagreed with a lot of things that have been posted. We are all entitled to our opinions -- most of the time they're worth what they cost, and that includes my own.

As for the message insulting Gargoyle: I was going to post to it and found it closed. Big red letters. Good. There's enough incivility around -- and please don't go insulting j0hn9, either.


29 Dec 03 - 12:33 PM (#1081592)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Kim C

As we say in the South, be sweet, y'all. :-)


29 Dec 03 - 12:46 PM (#1081599)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: mooman

I'll repeat the message I posted on the now-deleted thread.

In the couple of direct exchanges I have had with Gargoyle over the years, I found him musically very knowledgeable and personally helpful to me (e.g. about music venues when visiting the USA).

As I said before, I wouldn't judge a book by its cover.

Peace

moo


29 Dec 03 - 01:53 PM (#1081643)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Peg

Gargoyle is a stalker and   I think,   perhaps,   unbalanced   enough to be dangerous.


29 Dec 03 - 02:51 PM (#1081693)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Clinton Hammond

Sometimes Gargoyles posts are the only thing worth reading on Mudcat...


29 Dec 03 - 02:55 PM (#1081696)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: open mike

consider the source...


29 Dec 03 - 04:23 PM (#1081763)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Bill D

"Sometimes Gargoyles posts are the only thing worth reading on Mudcat..."..??? Good grief, CH...you ARE jaded.....


29 Dec 03 - 04:27 PM (#1081765)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Bee-dubya-ell

Nah, Peg, if anyone's in danger it's Gargoyle, not those he insults.

Gargy seems to assume that there's no possibility of him pissing someone off badly enough to make them want to travel to (insert Garg's hometown here) and be waiting for him after he's finished (insert Garg's job description here) at (insert Garg's place of employment here) for the day. Considering that there are hundreds of Mudcatters who know Garg's real name and can easily fill in the blanks in the above sentence, it seems to me that it would behoove him to behave in a more civil fashion. Push enough people's buttons and the laws of probability say that eventually you're gonna hit one that pushes back.   

Bruce


29 Dec 03 - 04:33 PM (#1081775)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Clinton Hammond

"no possibility of him pissing someone off badly enough to make them want to travel to (insert Garg's hometown here) and be waiting for him after he's finished (insert Garg's job description here) at (insert Garg's place of employment here) for the day. "

One would have to be a mighty big wanker (Or even "unbalanced") to even consider doing such a thing because someone said something you didn't like on a pithy little folk music message board...

I mean, sheesh... get a life... It's just the internet...


29 Dec 03 - 04:46 PM (#1081783)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Helen

I also know that Gargoyle has been blamed for a lot of the flaming and trolling which happened here at one particular time and it wasn't him, it was someone else. Some people will never believe that, though.

Look through Gargoyle's posts and count up how many times he has been helpful and knowledgeable and count the blessings that way. I just send him love and light when he pisses me off, and I also don't react to his piss-me-off tactics, but I know he will regularly drift between naughty to not-so-naughty so I just take the good with the bad.

Hi Gargoyle!

Helen


29 Dec 03 - 04:49 PM (#1081785)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: ddw

Careful, Clinton -- some people get really riled when you attack their religion.....

david


29 Dec 03 - 05:06 PM (#1081795)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Clinton Hammond

You mean the internet?

As a religion?

Or do you mean rippin' on Garg as a religion?

Either would be pretty sad indeed...


29 Dec 03 - 05:23 PM (#1081812)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: McGrath of Harlow

"Look through Gargoyle's posts and count up how many times he has been helpful and knowledgeable and count the blessings that way."

Here's a set of them.


29 Dec 03 - 05:26 PM (#1081814)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST,Frank

I believe everyone is entitled to his/her view. I like this forum because you can be critical, even nasty if you want and it can be shrugged off.I think that makes for democracy. I'd hate to see any kind of censorship on this forum. One thing, though. Those who are
"ad hominem" nasty have no force behind their opinions.

Frank


29 Dec 03 - 05:33 PM (#1081821)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST

The Gargoyle as we know him epitomizes the quintessential human condition: a mixture of good and evil. Most of us try to suppress the ugly side of ourselves, sometimes with grave psychological consequences. The Gargoyle recognizes the dual nature of our true selves and chooses to display the good or evil side, as the situation - as he sees it - demands. Defense mechanisms and survival instincts operating within us give precedence to remembering the negative encounters over the positive ones, but in even the most wicked of creatures, if one is willing to look hard enough, one can find a scrap of goodness. The Gargoyle is no exception.


29 Dec 03 - 05:38 PM (#1081828)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: McGrath of Harlow

And at least he doesn't hide while he's doing it.


29 Dec 03 - 06:11 PM (#1081858)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Bee-dubya-ell

Clinton - I once had a woman physically attack me for using the colloquialism "That's a whole different animal." She accused me of calling her an animal and proceeded to hit me with her umbrella. She was "unbalanced".

There are some very unbalanced people out there. Some of them know how to use computers and the "anonymity" of the Internet is a myth. Piss of the wrong people and they can find out who you are and where you live.

Now, while I'm not whacko enough to personally consider "revenge" for perceived slights delivered via the Internet (or otherwise) I am just paranoid enough to assume that there are people out there who are whacko enough to consider it. So, I try to behave myself. If that makes me a "wanker", so be it.

Bruce


29 Dec 03 - 06:14 PM (#1081861)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: jimmyt

let me go on record as saying I don't think Bruce is not a wanker.


29 Dec 03 - 06:16 PM (#1081862)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: jimmyt

hell, you would think I was already in the wine   LET ME REPHRASE THAT AGAIN with no double negative! BRUCE IS NOT A WANKER!!


29 Dec 03 - 06:20 PM (#1081865)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: artbrooks

...wrong again, Jimmy....


29 Dec 03 - 06:23 PM (#1081869)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Clinton Hammond

" I am just paranoid enough to assume that there are people out there who are whacko enough to consider it"

Well, there's paranoid and there's reality... and then there's what actually happens...

I find it very hard to believe that ANYONE here on Mudcat would bother 'hunting' anyone down for anything other than maybe assult with a musical instrument, or attempted murder by over-consumption...

Especially given that there is a rather large ocean between the 2 largest groups here...

I'm not saying it's CAN'T happen... I just happen to thihk it's highly unlikely... and I can't be bothered worrying about what MIGHT happen... life's too short...


29 Dec 03 - 06:27 PM (#1081874)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Cruiser

This is just too funny, the last 3 posts. Thanks for the laugh!


29 Dec 03 - 06:51 PM (#1081894)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Bev and Jerry

People like Gargoyle provide the necessary spices that make Mudcat Stew just perfect.

Bev and Jerry


29 Dec 03 - 06:55 PM (#1081897)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Ebbie

jimmyt, I agree with Cruiser- thanks for the laugh.


29 Dec 03 - 07:03 PM (#1081903)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: pdq

Trying to drive anyone off the forum is simply wrong.


29 Dec 03 - 07:30 PM (#1081929)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Jerry Rasmussen

What hath I created? All I have to say is I don't think it serves any purpose starting a thread attacking someone.

Jerry


29 Dec 03 - 07:46 PM (#1081942)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: bbc

I agree, Jerry. There is enough unpleasantness in the world already, without making it a goal on Mudcat as well. As it happens, gargoyle has only posted positive, supportive things to & about me. I would appreciate & accept him, regardless.

best to all,

bbc


29 Dec 03 - 07:46 PM (#1081943)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Mooh

I seem to remember a discussion about Garg's piles or something. I'd like to know what makes his more special than say, mine (or Spaw's)...LOL!

I was thinking about this thread earlier today when idly watching townsfolk as I stood in line at a Bargain Shop trying to buy some double A batteries for my discman. We're not much different than any other cross-section of society I suppose, except we're smarter I like to think.

Here's to us and those like us, including Gargoyle.

Peace, Mooh.


29 Dec 03 - 07:51 PM (#1081950)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Bobert

I haven't gotten to the thread attacking Gargoyle but, hey, difference of opinion is what makes a horse race intersting...

There was a tthread a while back where one member thought he was being phsically threatened by another and said, "bring it on". That thread shouls have been stopped. This is not a place where people find others to engage in violent behavior agains one another but othe than that, if it isn't blatently stupid and vulgar, it doesn't offend my at all. Quite the contrary. In these times, it's good for folks to vent since most have been disenfranchished from the decision making powers that control their lives...

And, remember what Jesus said when the crowd of vigilantes was about to stone a prostitute. "Let he who not sinned cast the first stone."

Thanks for satrting this thread, Jerry. Tolerance is very much part of what we both know to be the salve for the wounds that seperate us.

Bobert


29 Dec 03 - 08:02 PM (#1081960)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Big Mick

Folks..what short memories you seem to have. First, I agree with Jerry's premise. It is a nice thought from a nice man. I do not agree that we should not call someone on bad behaviour. I have called those out that I disliked, and I have been called out when my behaviour merited it. In cases where, in retrospect, I realized my comments were wrong, I apologized.

Gargoyle has had times where his comments were reprehensible. Examples would be his attitude toward people who have terminal illnesses or who have loved ones with terminal illnesses. He goes far beyond what any decent human being should have to put up with. His disgusting comments to katlaughing are nearly as reprehensible. It is at times like these that I would ban him without a second thought. But it is not my site, it is Max's and he has decided that is not going to happen. In hindsight and after being around here for a fair number of years, I see the wisdom in his decision. When Garg is acting as our friendly, neighborhood curmudgeon, he is right on. He represents a different view that is vital. It is those times that I am glad he is here.

What am I saying? As a Christian, I understand completely the olive branch that our friend Jerry extends. But I also understand what many who haven't been here as long don't. Much of what Gargoyle has posted goes beyond destructive to disgusting. I have always wanted to meet him 3D to try and figure out what makes him tick. But I will not sit here and pretend that he hasn't said some of the most hurtful things that can be said.

Mick


29 Dec 03 - 08:15 PM (#1081971)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: katlaughing

Thank you, Mick. You've said pretty much what I've been feeling since reading this thread. A lot of folks who haven't been here very long haven't seen the worst of gargoyle and, with deletion of personal attacks, most likely never will.

I understand Jerry's intentions, too, and have written to him, privately, about this thread.

For the record, gargoyle still has his membership. He chooses not to use it for logging in, nor to respond to PM's.

kat


29 Dec 03 - 08:25 PM (#1081979)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Amos

Although it has been the keynote of many jokes I think there is something to be said for the notion that meds are involved. I have heard a number of different voices posting over Garg's handle and they strike me as the after-effects of biochemical imbalances -- all of them except one, anyway.


A


29 Dec 03 - 08:42 PM (#1081988)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Ebbie

Thanks for speaking up, Big Mick and katlaughing. I'm all for tolerance, Christian and otherwise; I am also all for keeping reality in mind. The reality is that gg at times is so far gone he would clear an audience faster than a fire siren.


29 Dec 03 - 08:52 PM (#1081992)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Cluin

"I mean, sheesh... get a life... It's just the internet... "


One of the smartest things I've seen posted anywhere.


29 Dec 03 - 09:02 PM (#1082000)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: catspaw49

I made a comment on the deleted thread so I'll comment here as well I guess. Garg has been an ass of the First Order many times in the past...Of course I have often returned that to him in kind. He has also been extremely threatening at times. On the other hand he has been involved in some simply great musical questions and has an excellent knowledge of music.

Over the years, Garg has mellowed somewhat and I now often find that he seems to be more interested in pushing the envekope by whatever means and margins are available as a way of enjoying himself. Some of his attacks lack the vitriol of old, others are just half-hearted efforts at best. Once in awhile he goes completely off the deep end.

Most of us still keep an eye on his antics but he no longer is the threat we used to feel.......partly because he has developed into one thing--our own in-house troll and flamer. We're used to it and judge each post accordingly. From helpful to humorous to grotesque and crude, we are used to his bag of tricks and he is used to getting axed.

Jerry, do not mistake what I say for approval. Garg and I will continue along, me telling him to fuck himself and he sending best wishes for my imminent demise. Take his good postings for the good stuff they are but try not to think he's an okay guy, just misunderstood. He and I are both assholes and both are an integral part of what Mudcat is. But never forget that when you befriend a snake, it is, after all, still a snake.

Spaw


29 Dec 03 - 09:08 PM (#1082006)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Jerry Rasmussen

Garg is our Rorsach test, I guess... and yes, I've seen some things he's said that cross any line of humanity. Reminds me of one of my favorite children's book authors. Wanda Gag.

Jerry


29 Dec 03 - 09:27 PM (#1082023)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Joe Offer

Well, I kinda like the guy. Trouble is, oftentimes he posts things we just can't allow. So, then we hit the delete button.

Some things we can't allow are personal attacks, stalking, and racism. We don't have the time or the desire to give full consideration to which personal attacks and the like are harmful and which are harmless. We just delete them all, as equitably as we can. That's why John's anti-Gargoyle thread was deleted. It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't allowed.

That's the way it is.
-Joe Offer-


29 Dec 03 - 09:29 PM (#1082026)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Jerry Rasmussen

And I'm glad it IS, Joe..

Jerry


29 Dec 03 - 09:34 PM (#1082030)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Big Mick

Amen, Joe.


29 Dec 03 - 10:45 PM (#1082072)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: harpgirl

Let's see what we know about Garg. He went to the University of Maine. His family lives in Arizona. He is divorced. He used to teach High school English but now he is retired. He has severe trouble with his eyes. He was a Philmont Ranger and so he is a dedicated boyscout(complete with the code of ethics, folks). He is a Republican. He makes money on some internet tricks he go into early
but not as much now as he used to. He collects dirty Rugby songs that he used to sing when he was the Songmeister for the Hash House Harriers of Long Beach which he joined to get rid of his middle age paunch. He drinks beer. He plays piano...

Oh wait, I'm stalking. Joe hates this. I better stop. How can anyone fear such an ordinary guy???? He has been playing dungeons and dragons so long, he has begun to believe his own bad press! It's just a fantasy character! Garg is actually an invention of Bert and Max, anyway...Love, harpy ( and who is that anyway????? do any of you really know?)


29 Dec 03 - 10:47 PM (#1082074)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: momnopp

Yeah, what Joe said.

And what Mick said.

And Kat, too.

Oh, yeah -- and what Jerry said.

I'm very glad to be a part of a community that bans inhumanity, "personal attacks, stalking, and racism". That's the kind of place I want to hang my hat and the kind of folk I want to be associated with.

Thanks for being who, what and how you are.

Peace,

JudyO


29 Dec 03 - 10:49 PM (#1082075)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Jerry Rasmussen

I don't think I'd let him help my Mother cross the street..

Jerry


29 Dec 03 - 10:55 PM (#1082079)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST

Why Wanda Gag, Jerry? I have "Millions of Cats" - a little off-kilter, but kind of sweet. What made you think of her?

Dani


29 Dec 03 - 11:11 PM (#1082091)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: catspaw49

The Harpster left out some stuff but I'll only add the one I think is interesting. He's dyslexic, which accounts for the spelling problems often associated with his posts, but moreover, one of the most entertaining and educational threads we ever ran was on Dyslexia and Greg's contributions to it were tops. Some really fascinating insights. And he IS unbelievable on the Rugby songs....go look those up, they're a riot. He also makes some booze which creates problems at times which I'll omit here.

Say Greg, I gotta' ask....Are you just loving this and laughing your ass off over all these folks kissing it??? I'm laughing my own off as a matter of fact, which you can of course kiss!

Spaw


29 Dec 03 - 11:16 PM (#1082094)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST

I applaud the Mudcat membership for REALLY, REALLY trying. REALLY. TRYING.

And I for one would just like to say, hurray for EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE Mudcat.


29 Dec 03 - 11:37 PM (#1082110)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: InOBU

I had said a few nice things about Garg on the deleted thread as well, and as not to bait the ol' stone faced boy up on the roof of the Mudcat cathedral, I will leave it at that. I have never let him get under my skin, and also concider him an interesting and at times amusing part of the cat stew.
Cheers
Larry


30 Dec 03 - 12:13 AM (#1082128)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: wysiwyg

I usually say it like this: I'd pray for Satan, but probably not ask him over for dinner.

~S~


30 Dec 03 - 01:29 AM (#1082153)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Art Thieme

And JERRY, I will now take this chance to tell you in front of everyone:

Thanks so much for the great book.

Love to you and Ruth,

Art


30 Dec 03 - 03:02 AM (#1082179)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Seamus Kennedy

I like a lot of Gargoyle's stuff, and I don't like a lot of his stuff.
But I like to read it all.
When he's good I think "What an interesting fella!"
When he's bad, I think "What a fucking asshole!"
But he's never boring.

Seamus


30 Dec 03 - 05:22 AM (#1082209)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: The Shambles

This is yet another thread that is closed.

Guest postings

Have a look at this one to see if you can establish what the justification for this closure will be?
    You're right, Shambles, it WAS closed - from 22 December to 23 December. It was closed due to a miscommunication between volunteers, for which I apologize. I reopened the thread on 23 December, as soon as I found that it had been closed. Sorry for the inconvenience
    -Joe Offer-


30 Dec 03 - 08:05 AM (#1082268)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Jerry Rasmussen

Thanks, Art: And I love the Camplin CD.

A point about honesty. I read this statement many years ago, and it has never left me.

Love without honesty is sentimentality

Honesty without love is cruelty

Jerry


30 Dec 03 - 08:09 AM (#1082272)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST,Zeus

EVERYONE IS AN ASSHOLE TO SOMEONE


30 Dec 03 - 09:36 AM (#1082313)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: wysiwyg

Shambles, that thread is NOT closed and people are still posting in it.

~S~

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30 Dec 03 - 10:25 AM (#1082337)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST,KB

I've always liked Gargoyle. He is a great antidote to some of the more prissy and gushy types. And it does take all types......


30 Dec 03 - 11:09 AM (#1082376)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Bill D

"...it does take all types......"

nope...'all types' is what we get, 'it', as in a meaningful forum, does not require some of the types we get...


30 Dec 03 - 11:11 AM (#1082378)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Jerry Rasmussen

Wanda Gag is not only a successful children's book author, it's also a question..

Jerry


30 Dec 03 - 07:10 PM (#1082790)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Rustic Rebel

Gargoyle,
I think you have a dry sense of humor. I like your humor. You have never gotten on my ass about anything that I recall, and if you ever do, I can handle it without a problem because I would not take it too serious. That's my take on you Garg. You are a funny man.
Now how are you handling all of this attention?
Rustic


31 Dec 03 - 04:16 PM (#1083420)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST,Frank

I think that it's OK for people to speak reprehensibly on this forum.
The worse they speak of others, the less weight one can attach to the
force of their argument. Fact and logic speak for themselves.

Frank


31 Dec 03 - 04:29 PM (#1083428)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Jerry Rasmussen

Hey, Frank:

We seem to be crossing paths these days. I generally approve of everyone expressing their opinion in here, but I have a problem with people who are intentionally cruel in their comments, who hurt people.
Kinda like yelling "Fire" in a movie theater... some kinds of free speech come at too high a price for me to welcome.

And, the odd thing about people who say cruel things that hurt others: when the other person is hurt, they end up being blamed for being "too sensitive" or not having a sense of humor.

Sometimes, you can't win for losing..

Jerry


31 Dec 03 - 04:38 PM (#1083436)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST

Yelling fire in the theatre can actually kill someone. Slagging off someone on the internet won't exactly have the same effect.

Nor does exchanging the routine sorts of nasties with family, friends, neighbors, strangers, and work colleagues who don't fit the above categories.

Conflict is inevitable. Those who are in denial about that fact make life a living hell for the rest of us mere mortals.

I have never understood those who insist on imposing their "niceness" values on others, and demonizing everyone who doesn't share those values. Niceness is not a virtue worthy of sainthood, and it most certainly has an extemely negative dark side.


31 Dec 03 - 05:13 PM (#1083465)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Kim C

Spaw, you are just a softie in an asshole outfit. ;-) You can't fool me.


01 Jan 04 - 10:03 AM (#1083841)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST,Wolfgang

Von Zeit zu Zeit seh ich den Alten gern

Wolfgang


01 Jan 04 - 12:55 PM (#1083951)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST,Mudcat Old Maid

"Niceness is not a virtue worthy of sainthood, and it most certainly has an extemely negative dark side..."



WRONG AGAIN, LOOPIE ROCKS...

Old Maid from Mudcat


01 Jan 04 - 01:29 PM (#1083977)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Ebbie

Welcome back, gg. (I think.)


01 Jan 04 - 02:51 PM (#1084051)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: rangeroger

Wolfgang,

"Occasionally seh I the old person gladly" ??

rr


07 Jan 04 - 02:41 PM (#1088087)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Wolfgang

Sorry, rangerover, for not checking back here in this thread. I see your question just now.

It is a citation from Goethe's 'Faust', Mephistopheles speaking

'now and then I (even) like to see the old fellow'

Wolfgang


08 Jan 04 - 01:04 AM (#1088483)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Lonesome EJ

Back in 99, gargoyle wrote the following

"Anyway.


Cab drivers are scum bags. They lust only for whores and gambling. They like to fight. They like to kick jerks out of their cab. They are jerks. They're not nice to women and children, even if they are women and children. Arty types don't make the grade. They're sheep in cab driver clothing. A real cab driver is a full time son of a bitch. He may or may not know how to speak English, but you can bet he's a talking asshole in any language. The son of a bitches will never grow up. They don't want real jobs. They're eternal boys, which is to say your average American fellah, except they do it for a living.


Cabbies take the worse shit a man can take and get paid for it. Mercenary killers are higher on the ladder. So are whores when it comes to selling your ass. A cabby is a legal criminal. Something like a lawyer, same branch of pedestrianism. Know what they call a cabby without a hangover? A nonsequitur. No such animal. You'd fit in there pretty well. Drugs too. You gotta take lots of drugs to be a cabby. But know how to handle them. Combine them like an alchemist. The best cabbies can shoot a goofball in their neck going sixty in heavy traffic and the passengers won't even notice. You'd do alright there too.


Where was I?

Oh, yeah. The most important part - and I don't know if you fill the bill here. We'll see - a cabby's gotta know how to push a hack. If you can't pass a hack through the eye of a needle, you ain't no cabby. The cab's gotta be an integral part of you. It has to fit like a glove, hang like a genital, bounce like a tit, shit like an eagle, fly like a demon, burrow through the city like a rat in a garbage heap and come out shining. You gotta be able to sneak up on a fare like a pickpocket. You gotta squeeze through double parked cars like toothpaste. There can't be more than the distance between the hem of a whore's skirt and her snatch between you and sleepwalking pedestrians. You gotta have nerves of steel and the patience of a toad. Otherwise you'll crack up. You'll get fired or end up in a fireball on the freeway. Cab driving is magic and you gotta master the automatic pilot. If you're the type of pedestrian who bumps into other people on the street, probably you won't make a cabby."

When he's a being his nasty bastard racist personna, he's detestable. Then, suddenly, like a rose sprouting from a heap of horse dung, he'll sprout a post like the one above. Go figure.


08 Jan 04 - 08:51 AM (#1088634)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Amos

Wow, LEJ -- thanks for uncovering that one!!

I like the old fart, myself, except when his meds are off.

A


08 Jan 04 - 10:30 AM (#1088680)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Peg

EJ; are you being ironic with your last statement? I certainly hope so.


08 Jan 04 - 11:19 AM (#1088703)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Metchosin

I hope he wasn't Peg, that is, IMO, an exceptional piece of prose.


08 Jan 04 - 11:26 AM (#1088707)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Jeri

I rather liked the bit LEJ found and posted. If you're gonna be nasty, doing it creatively is much more fun for the rest of us than one-liners.

I sorta think he's obnoxious most of the time. Sometimes, it seems like he puts too much effort into proving it. He often goes over the line, but I wonder if it's intentional or he's incapable of figuring out where that line IS. I laugh at his funny stuff, I thank him for sharing useful information, and the rest is just turdage, lingering a moment before the whirlpool current sucks them under and they wave a 2-ply 'bye-bye' before disappearing from the bowl of my conciousness.


08 Jan 04 - 12:03 PM (#1088731)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Peg

an exceptional piece of prose? perhaps, but the misanthropy it communicates is offensive. I mean, most of us have probably had ample experience of cabdrivers. Who is Gargoyle to stereotype someone in this line of work?


08 Jan 04 - 12:12 PM (#1088737)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Amos

Peg:

PErhaps it was an exaltation, at street level; as for whether anyone else has an experience of (x) or not, it is not a primary concern of some artists, compared tot he importance of capturing the magic of one's awareness in some form.   It sounds vivid enough to imply that Garg has been drivent odriving at some point, or else lived wiht someone who has. Who knows? Ya gotta take the piece on its own merits, I would think, which are considerable, warts of misanthropy and all.

A


08 Jan 04 - 12:25 PM (#1088755)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST,ClaireBear

As Shakespeare saw fit to put a misanthrope in each of his comedies, mightn't it befit us to make a place for one in ours? We may not understand its function, indeed we may dislike its function, but perhaps the overall piece would be lessened by its absence.

Claire


08 Jan 04 - 12:47 PM (#1088764)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST,furret

Doesn't sound unlike John from Hull to me.


08 Jan 04 - 01:08 PM (#1088782)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Bill D

our own Gingham dog and Calico cat.


08 Jan 04 - 01:27 PM (#1088797)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Bardford

The thing is, Gargoyle didn't write that cab piece. Unless his real world name is Ken Wanio. I ran a search "Cab drivers are scumbags" :
Google search


08 Jan 04 - 01:49 PM (#1088808)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: harpgirl

but who is Ken Wanio, really?


08 Jan 04 - 01:50 PM (#1088811)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Peg

I don't have a problem with any   artist expressing misanthropy, per se. But just knowing Gargoyle's propensity for lobbing insults, often stereotypical ones, it's disturbing to read this.


08 Jan 04 - 02:19 PM (#1088831)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Amos

Aw, hell -- how disappointing!! I'm pretty sure Ken Wanio and Garg are NOT the same people. What a waste of perfectrly good naivete!! :>) I'm disappointed in ya, Garg!

A


08 Jan 04 - 04:00 PM (#1088910)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: GUEST

I don't think I'd let him help my Mother cross the street..

My prayer is that he does not even know my Mother.

We all will stand before Our Lord God Almighty and answer for our earthly deeds. I've enough of my own to account for - I pray He is a just and forgiving God.

I forgive you Gargoyle -

Norton1


08 Jan 04 - 05:48 PM (#1088975)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: TheBigPinkLad

If God is truly omnipotent he could easily be one and the same with Gargoyle. Quite a few people in deep shit then, hey?


08 Jan 04 - 06:04 PM (#1088991)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Justa Picker

"We all will stand before Our Lord God Almighty"

...provided that we never make contact and establish relations with extra-terrestials. THAT, would kind of throw the theory of creation and God (both in the biblical sense) on their asses' end, now wouldn't it?


08 Jan 04 - 07:20 PM (#1089057)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: InOBU

Ya gotta love that Garg hasn't bothered to say a word about all this... Cheers Larry


08 Jan 04 - 09:17 PM (#1089134)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Ebbie

I suspect gg's response to our discovering he didn't write the piece he posted would/will be similar to Jayson Blair's after the New York Times belatedly discovered he had faked or plagiarized a great many of his stories: "I fooled some of the most brilliant people in journalism".


08 Jan 04 - 09:34 PM (#1089144)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Metchosin

I'm disappointed too Amos.....well the least I can say is, he had the ability to recognize good prose.*BG*


08 Jan 04 - 10:11 PM (#1089149)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Bill D

I can't see how anyone really thought that gg wrote that, after reading 20-30 of his posts.

None of the words were teeny little things in yellow.


08 Jan 04 - 11:04 PM (#1089177)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Amos

LEJ has always been a poster of integrity so I figgered he was a reliable reference when he posted the thing saying GG posted it, and not pausing to think he was likewaise took in.

A


08 Jan 04 - 11:23 PM (#1089180)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Metchosin

In case my post wasn't clear Amos, I wasn't disappointed by LEJ, that LEJ recognizes good prose has always been a given.


08 Jan 04 - 11:33 PM (#1089184)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Amos

Right! I just assumed his assumption about the authorship, and I am grateful the deceit has been uncovered by Bardford's diligence.

A


09 Jan 04 - 04:49 AM (#1089264)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: mooman

Picture of

Ken Wainio (no. 28) here for anyone interested!

Peace

moo


09 Jan 04 - 09:12 AM (#1089367)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Amos

Mooman:

Amazing!! Wodda find!! I love that page!!


A


09 Jan 04 - 01:44 PM (#1089548)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Lonesome EJ

woops. Reckon I WAS took in on that one.

The Defense rests.


09 Jan 04 - 01:45 PM (#1089551)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: M.Ted

One hopes that the fact that Ken Wainio *is* a cab driver, and that the piece quoted above came from a forum run by and for cab drivers has not been overlooked--Some of you people need to have Kevin explain the meaning of the word "irony"--

Why have you singled out Gargoyle as an example of Bad Behaviour? If you want to discuss posters who express rudeness, stupidity, shortsightedness, bigotry, malice, and other sorts of ill-will, there are others more worthy of the honor than Gargoyle--


09 Jan 04 - 01:50 PM (#1089554)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Cluin

Aw, I like gargoyle. He's like a St. Bernard puppy: he's cute and goofy and sometimes he pees on the carpet.


09 Jan 04 - 02:36 PM (#1089579)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Lonesome EJ

Interesting that Gargoyle channelled that cab driver piece from what is a fairly obscure site buried in the Net. It's as if he is a creature spawned out of this electronic artifice, perched somewhere on a parapet of this construction and spewing out it's contents for us. A small and rather grotesque devil who both repels and fascinates. Maybe in some sense he follows in the stony footsteps of his medieval predecessors, a figure less of fear than of curiosity, designed to keep the real Demons at bay, and only a real nuisance when he downspouts on our heads.


09 Jan 04 - 03:27 PM (#1089625)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Steve in Idaho

"and only a real nuisance when he downspouts on our heads"

And then only if we let him -

Steve


09 Jan 04 - 06:03 PM (#1089693)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Peg

if it was actually written by a cab driver, that Is the irony. but it was presented on this forum as being written by someone who wasinsulting cab drivers; there is a difference...


10 Jan 04 - 11:49 AM (#1090003)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: M.Ted

Check the site--it is very interesting--written with humor, from the "So you think you can hack it as cabbie" perspective--it changes considerably when seen in context--and of course, the picture of the author helps you to understand his perspective even better--


18 Feb 04 - 12:14 AM (#1118153)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull

johnfromhull@kitv.co.uk


18 Feb 04 - 02:42 PM (#1118593)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Chief Chaos

Although I tend to get heated about someone flaming me, I mean that Whongo the Whimp stuff was really childish, i just remember that there is no-one in the world that make me feel anything with something they have said. It is your own reaction to the words regardless of the actual words. Take a deep breath and keep on scrolling. You've all been very kind to me. I try to make up for the kindness by taking a few minutes to look over my posts and make sure I don't insult anyone offhandedly (is that a word?). I put a lot of work into the product (misspellings don't count LOL) to make it as pleasant as possible to read.

To the victims of virulent attacks, it ain't you, don't feel bad.
He's only pushing himself away from a really nice bunch of folks.
In some ways I pity him. Boy won't that piss him off!


18 Feb 04 - 04:23 PM (#1118649)
Subject: RE: A Message for Gargoyle
From: Walking Eagle

I 'spose I'd rather someone let fly here than to take an AK47 and blow away a few innocents. We know how to take it. {{{{{{{Garg}}}}} and smooches too!

But thankee very much, I'm not in need of any help.

The eagle that walks