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PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite

13 Feb 03 - 07:26 PM (#889907)
Subject: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: Nemesis

I gather that Billy Bragg is appearing in a programme on Monday evening 17th February illustrating the effects of the PEL.

I can't get find it in the BBC schedules yet .. but I can only think that it must be on the Inside Out regional programme at 7.30pm .. can any one cfm this?

14 Feb 03 - 05:33 AM (#890147)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: The Admiral

Hi Hille

I think I met you at the Protest (but I'm not sure!). Anyway, yes I was going to post this but you got there before I did. I did hear something about this so I emailed the the Inside Out (Southern) people at the Beeb and they came back to confirm that they would have an item 'clarifying the issues' on thier programme, 19.30 this coming Monday (17th). I understand that this is a programme that runs 'local' items so whether it'll run the PEL item in other regions I don't know but as it's a very rare chance to see this subject aired on TV it's got to be worth looking out for.

15 Feb 03 - 12:54 AM (#890834)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: The Shambles

Yes, it's on the South version of Inside Out (only) at 7.30-8pm on
Monday 17Feb. Can someone who can hear it record it, or get a transcript?

15 Feb 03 - 10:58 AM (#890971)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: Nemesis

Hi Admiral,

Yes, I did meet you at the protest .. were you the one with a beard? :)

15 Feb 03 - 04:58 PM (#891147)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: Nemesis

An open letter
TO: Dr Kim Howells, Department of Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS)
& Andrew Cunningham (senior civil servant, DCMS)
Dear Dr Howells and Mr Cunningham,

Re. the new License Bill

With Red Nose Day coming up and 100,000s of ordinary people organising events to raise money for charity .. will MCM Research UK or any other unbiased(?) Government appointed research company be reporting back:

- on the likely effect on voters at the next election once those people realise (from summer 2004)
- they face criminal prosecution and face fines up to 20,000 and/ or 6 months in prison
- for singing outside a supermarket or for playing a guitar and singing a number of songs in the middle of their comic routine without a license?
- Or the likely effect on fundraising once people realise they may have to apply, pay and satisfy Fire/ Police/ Health and Safety/ the neighbours etc for a license to hold a charity event?

Comic Relief has raised over 1billion - how much less once cash starved local authorities have taken over the issuing of those licenses?

Personally, I think the image of yourselves together with the impact of this bill on ordinary people's efforts to help starving children, will be one even more indelible than Thatcher the Milk Snatcher
Yours sincerely
H J Cook

15 Feb 03 - 06:20 PM (#891204)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: GUEST,Mexican

Bolly Brag! What's that tosser got to do with anything?

15 Feb 03 - 06:28 PM (#891216)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: McGrath of Harlow

MI>".. were you the one with a beard?"

That's a bit like "Was it the polar bear with white fur?"

15 Feb 03 - 08:49 PM (#891294)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: Nemesis

Oh, dear Mex .. not another Tequila sunrise today was it then?

McGrath .. hang on, no it was you with the beard wasn't it? **g** Or, no, hang on, MIcca had one didn't he?

16 Feb 03 - 02:09 PM (#891647)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: Nemesis

17 Feb 03 - 11:17 AM (#892074)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: The Admiral

'Sorry Hille!

No beard but it does give me an excuse to remind everyone that the PEL protest is being covered on BBC 1's Inside Out (Southern) - even if it is Willy Wagg! I hope to record it.

Regards: Tony

17 Feb 03 - 04:09 PM (#892360)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: Nemesis

So, anybody see it?

A nice gentle look at things .. bit of fun poking .. but it ended with a busking image .. but the exemption on singing and dancing on public land will be removed (although debateable if London Undnderground is public land ..) but, surely busking won't be allowed either .. you'd still need a PEL !

Good to see about the village hall issue .. but I don't think the 15 mins went far enough to explain even the issues that were illustrated.

But thank god .. someone's managed something ..
Well done Billy :) !
PS: the Inside out mailing list made absolutely NO mention of this section of the programme .. in fact the email only came this afternoon - obviously they are not too fussed about letting people know what is on their programmes

17 Feb 03 - 06:47 PM (#892521)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: Mr Happy

the inside out prog seems regional- no mench on the one i saw in nw eng.

wonder why?

17 Feb 03 - 07:26 PM (#892544)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: vectis

Nothing on the South East version.

20 Feb 03 - 11:53 AM (#894336)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: The Shambles

[Thanks to Trevor Gilson, for sending me the tape.]

Inside Out BBC South TV. 17 February 2003

Chris Packham The group behind me are mummers and they are putting on a traditional play that has its roots in our pagan history. But if a new Act of Parliament goes through, its performance in a pub, like this could be severely threatened, and that has really irked musician Billy Bragg.

Billy Bragg. These are my friends Little Dixie, and what they doing, the three of them playing in this bar, is currently illegal without a [Public Entertainment] Licence.

BB Ah, now there is two of them. What they are doing is legal without the landlord of the pub having to apply for an entertainment licence.

BB And then there was one. This presently is legal without an entertainment licence, but under forthcoming Government legislation, even one person playing in a bar, without a Public Entertainment Licence will be illegal.

BB Confused? Well so is everyone. The law was silly enough before, a maximum of two musicians were allowed to play in an ordinary pub that is a pub without an entertainment Licence. But a government Bill, currently going through parliament could produce an even sillier law.

BB No one will be able to get up and sing in a pub or strum a guitar unless there is a licence. The Government's justification? One person with an amplifier can make as much noise as several. Here in West Dorset we think that is just more 'red tape'.

? Music is something we want to try to bring into the community more and more and local bands and supporting local bands is what we would like to do. It doesn't appear that the legislation allows that to happen.

BB When I first started out in this business I played a lot of gigs in pubs like this. It was basically a case of trying to convince the landlord let us play on a quiet night often for nothing. If the proposed Licensing Bill becomes law, it will make it much more difficult for young people to have the opportunity to perform in public. There is only so much you can learn by standing in front of a mirror with a tennis racket, eventually you will have to get out there and find out whether or not you really can cut-it. I don't want all our kids to have to go to stage-school and through 'Pop Idol' in order to get on 'Top Of the Pops'.   

BB Now you may not be a fan of live music, or a musician yourself, you may think what has this got to do with me? Why should I be bothered about this law?

BB Well the scope of it is so wide that it covers all kinds of public performance. Acting, singing, dancing, carolling, organ recitals, everything. Here in West Dorset, we have our community traditions under threat.

BB This is Symondsbury, near Bridport, home to a tradition that stretches back to the time of Thomas Hardy. For centuries the mummers have been performing in pubs, community halls, even village car parks. But under the new law, if they perform and haven't checked first if the venue has a licence, they could be breaking the law.

Our play goes back to the dark ages, prior to the Norman conquest, and its been going on continuously since then with nobody bothering it but this appears to be the type of thing that's going to bring it to its knees.

BB And the money that you raise from doing it, where does that go?

I'd better keep quiet on that one. [Laughs] The money raised is for expenses. {Laughs]

BB you realise that any form of remuneration falls within the remit of the new legislation, so this will also be illegal.

Well. I just hope our accountant and the Chancellor of the Exchequer isn't watching, this programme.

BB They are laughing now but this legislation could be the end for the Symondsbury mummers.

BB This is our village church. Surely we can find sanctuary from the bureaucrats in here? Well we would be wrong. The new law was designed to include churches. In the future like organ recitals and village festivals, would have to be licensed. Only religious services would be exempt.

BB Well, with the legislation as it stands at the moment, any event that is open to the public will require a performance licence, You'll need the Fire Brigade and the health and safety inspectors inhere. Would that sort of thing, mitigate against holding public events in the church?

Certainly it would. At the minimum it would be a nuisance but we have to comply with so many rules and regulation at the moment that I don't think we would welcome another one. It's rather odd that we can have a religious service packed to the doors, with no licence. no fee but the possibility of having a half filled church for a concert, paying a fee and having to be pretty closely scrutinised.

BB So finally we come to the centre of our community life, the village hall. Let's see what the new Licensing Bill will affect what goes on in here.

BB They are rehearsing for the annual village 'panto'. This year it's 'Hickory-Dickory-Dock. Under the new rule the hall will have to have a temporary events licence. But they are only allowed a maximum of five a year and each one lasts for only three days. Well, who thought that one up? The 'panto' alone goes on for a week!

BB The future is not looking good. More rules and more costs.

The fact is we only break even now and unless we are going to come after and find someone who is going to provide the money, we will not be able to run the pantomime.

BB that would be a great shame.

Well since we have been going since 1980, it would be a terrible shame. It provides, its not just the cast and the people surrounding the performance, it is all the people in the village, who help us in so many ways. It's a vital thing for village life, to keep the whole thing going.

BB So we are finishing of here with a quick pint in the village pub, and we are going to sing Happy Birthday to Sandra here whose birthday it is. [singing}

Landlord. Just a second, [singing stops] I'm not sure if I have got a licence for this. let me just go and check..

BB The landlord is going to ring the Ministry of Culture. Incidentally, we did ask the minister responsible to come to Dorset to talk to us but sadly he was too busy.

Landlord. I have just spoken to the Ministry of Culture and they have said, and I quote. "We have been able to confirm with ministerial guidance that spontaneous singing of Happy Birthday is not needed to be licensable". So carry on {singing resumes].

*BB since we began making this programme, there has been some movement by the Government. They have decided to exempt churches, altogether. Well as for village hall, they are still going to have to be licensed, but the Governments says there are going to wave the fees. But still we have heard no word whatsoever about what's going to happen about performance in public places.*

CP I think that is about the first time I have ever paid to hear you play.

BB Oh - thanks

CP I don't know whether it's a good or a bad thing but it does say a bit about you. But they're tough times then?

BB Yes they are tough times but if this legislation becomes law this situation is going to be much worse, because this is going to be the only place where young people are going to be able to get up and play.

CP Thanks for your help.

14 Mar 03 - 07:44 AM (#909802)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: The Shambles


Last June, Pub landlord Adrian Collis of The Three Horseshoes Burton Bradstock and who has also recently taken over The Bridport Arms Hotel in West Bay, staged a successful one-day music festival in Bridport Arts Centre to promote local musical talent. Adrian was so impressed by the quality of musical performance at the 'SHOES that he decided put together a bill featuring some of the best talent in the area.

Sunday April 6th will see him follow up this idea with another showcase gig, but with a difference! The day will serve as an awareness gig for the "KEEP MUSIC LIVE IN PUBS" campaign. This seeks to highlight how proposed changes to licensing could affect music performance in public houses.

The main points of the proposals are:

 Scrapping the current "2 playing in a bar rule" which allows 2 performers to play in a pub without the landlord needing a license. This will mean that ALL performance will need to be licensed.

 The costs of attaining a license will increase

 The fee will be commensurate with the "costs" incurred by the local council to administer the license (A license to print money!!)

 Each local council will set its own "policy" so within Dorset alone there will be inconsistencies

 Bridport Arts Centre has a healthy young persons music club called "ZEST" where regularly young musicians provide entertainment for their peers and gain experience of performing in the process. Where are they going to continue to perform if the window of opportunity to play in local pubs is drastically reduced because of the prohibitive costs involved in promoting live performance?

Bands and Artistes appearing will be:

At Noon: "ZEST" an opportunity for some of the young acts to play
Youngsters pay 1:00 only on the door 12:00 02:00 pm

Then at 02:30 pm onwards the main event:

 "ROADS" - a funky young blues band from Wimborne
 "HELENA" well known singer/songwriter from Shepton Mallet"
 "MOTEL 6" local original talented funky/rock band
 "GOTHIC CHICKEN" Marco's excellent cover band
 "AMOR" - Well established UK blues/rock/ghetto foursome from Surrey with excellent original rock style pedigree
 Bridport's own "LITTLE DIXIE" Mutter Slater's boys with
Special guest: "BILLY BRAGG"

Tickets for the main event, which kicks off at 02:30 pm will be priced at 8:50 per person and will be available from Monday 17th March and can be purchased from the following outlets:

Bridport Arts Centre

Bridport Record Centre

Three Horseshoes, Burton Bradstock

Bridport Arms Hotel, West Bay

Adrian said:

"Please do come along and enjoy a day of fine musical talent, which we are able to put on because these acts have "cut their teeth" in bars which has given them the experience to further their musical careers. Indeed for some musicians that earn a living playing in bars it could signal the end of their livelihood! Our own local "ZEST" young musicians club, recently awarded lottery funding is a credit to those who manage it and the youngsters that perform, but where do these budding artistes go next? The opportunities are likely to be severely reduced"

"These licensing proposals would appear to be closing doors to our young musicians when we should be focusing on opening more doors for them! It should also be remembered that our local successful musicians such as PJ Harvey and Billy Bragg both started their careers in pubs and bars."

"A petition against these aspects of the bill will be available for signatures which will be forwarded to Culture Minister: Kim Howells."

For further information contact Adrian Collis on:

01308 897259

14 Mar 03 - 02:30 PM (#910142)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: Mr Red

He is on Question time tonight if my ears are working right AND it#'s from Gloucester.

8pm Radio 4 BBC.

15 Mar 03 - 04:29 AM (#910533)
Subject: RE: PEL: Billy Bragg BBC1 Monday nite
From: The Shambles

You can listen to the show on the following site, where there will also be a later transcript available. I have not heard it all however, but what I have heard quite naturally centres on Iraq.