PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003 To Thread - Forum Home

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PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003

02 Jan 03 - 12:29 PM (#857288)
Subject: PEL: Mtg 6 Jan - Demo 27 2003
From: Nemesis

SILENT DEMONSTRATION
                                    Mozart's birthday
                               MONDAY 27 JANUARY 2003 @ 1PM
                               Parliament Square, London

Bring your instrument (AND A GAG -medical-type mouth-coverings work well), but don't play them

Contact:Caroline Kraabel 020 7237 1564.
Caroline is part of the London Musicians' Collective

Groups can get 1/3rd off train fares with Rail companies .. can be purchased on the day apparently. Notify your local press .. spread the word

Alternatively:

1) Sign the Licensing of Live Music in England and Wales Petition TO HAVE THE LEGISLATION REWORDED!
Click here

2) Tell the New Tory traitor (The Minister for anti-Culture) what you think at Click here

Or cut n paste email address into URL: kim.howells@culture.gsi.gov.uk

"You suck up to the bosses,
you betray the firefighters,
now you seek to destroy our culture.
You're worse than the Tories
- at least they didn't pretend to represent us -
You thought you were just picking on a bunch of supine semi dead folkies
but you've got another think coming,
you bunch of traitors!"

Attila The Stockbroker

4) Monday 6 January starting 1pm Islington's Union Chapel
Public meeting. A number of high-profile speakers including Hamish Birchall are currently being assembled for this.

The meeting on January 6 is being co-ordinated by Modal UK Ltd - the main vehicle for musics falling outside of Classical, and Pop music.

Modal Uk Ltd Click here
Contact: Mark Ringwood 0870 2430278   
Mark Ringwood
Modal UK Ltd
Tel: 0870 243 0278
Fax: 01243 789787
www.modal.co.uk

Modal 2003 - Nottingham 11-14 September


02 Jan 03 - 12:31 PM (#857290)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

sORRY COULDN'T GET THE EMAIL ADDRESS TO WORK AS A CLICK .. please cut and paste


02 Jan 03 - 12:36 PM (#857297)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

As yet there is no format for the demonstration ie., no march ... someone please advise as soon as they hear otherwise .. we just gather silently in Parliament Square (turn right out of Victoria Station .. about a mile)..

1 idea - opening of the Olympics style around the Square: Lots of other countries flag flying and music being performed and the Brits sitting silent under the Union Jack?

So, bring flags if you have them too?


02 Jan 03 - 12:53 PM (#857313)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Oh, and bringing the Cerne Abbas giant might be good too **G**

Sticking one, um, finger, up at the Govt ? Esp. after the Mummer's debacle last month


02 Jan 03 - 08:17 PM (#857566)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Equally also remember to bring placards ..


03 Jan 03 - 04:56 AM (#857684)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Useful numbers for trains to London:

National Rail Enquiries(times and Fares): 08457 48 49 50
Group Travel enquiries (10+) (1/3rd off): 0208 667 3800
SOuth Central Trains: 0870 830 6000


03 Jan 03 - 10:05 PM (#858189)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Plans in Worthing grow apace for the demo -- we're thinking of resurrecting our Skeleton Army who got the Riot Act read when they took on the Salvation Army in 1880 ..

Catters and others who want to join the demo train meet 10am Worthing Railway Station .. press call and photoshoot before we set off .. £13 discounted ticket for group travel... PM me or just BE there!!


04 Jan 03 - 05:17 AM (#858314)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

You are doing a great job Hille on stiring us all up to take some positive action. I hope these efforts are being echoed and supported elsewhere?

More details on the meeting..........

With thanks and acknowledgements to MODAL's mailout:

Please come to the first public meeting for proper debate for musicians affected by the Bill. The press will attend.

Monday 6 January, 1pm in the Union Chapel, Compton Terrace, Islington, London.

Speakers include:
Tom Robinson - Musician, broadcaster, and seasoned campaigner
David Heath MP - Liberal-Democrat
Chris Hodgkins - Director of Jazz Services
Hamish Birchall - Musicians' Union adviser


In West Berkshire the Council have called for an open forum on the same day so that licencees and entertainers can meet and discuss the implications. There are some very sensible parts to the Licensing Bill, but little which apply to live music.

This is your chance to really find out the truth. Is the drama becoming a crisis, what can be done and how ?

Be There !

Directions:
Union Chapel, Compton Terrace, N1 2XD is across the road from Highbury & Islington
Tube Station (Victoria Line). Turn right out of the station, cross Upper Street
below the big roundabout and you'll see Union Chapel in front of you.
www.unionchapel.org.uk

For further information contact:

Mark Ringwood
mARKO pOLO
The Barn, Fordwater Lane, Chichester,
West Sussex PO19 6PT
T: 01243 789786 F: 789787
M: 07802 5000 50
www.markopolo.co.uk
www.rootsaroundtheworld.info
www.lostinfrance.org.uk


05 Jan 03 - 04:24 AM (#859054)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

Who is intending to go to the DEMO on the 27th January?


05 Jan 03 - 06:51 PM (#859436)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: vectis

I, like thousands of supporters can't be there because I have to be at work. A weekend demo would be better attended but won't get the publicity - more's the pity.


06 Jan 03 - 02:47 PM (#859995)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

MOi + probably at least 20 others locally (hopefully, that I am not tempting fate)!


07 Jan 03 - 04:46 AM (#860498)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: fiddler

Is this (as it should be) gaining in support?

I can be there!

We'd be better doing nothing than making a damp f*rt.

A


07 Jan 03 - 04:56 AM (#860502)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: DMcG

You are right, fiddler. I expect to be there, but how many will be? I was a bit disappointed at the turn-out for the Union Chapel meeting. There was under a hundred, I'm sure, and the meeting seemed to be "preaching to the converted" to me. Very little was said which hasn't been covered elsewhere, although a few things were, so it wasn't a wasted afternoon from my point of view.


07 Jan 03 - 08:14 PM (#861177)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Well, I think it seems to be gaining in support at least amongst the people I have personally been speaking to.. just a bit worried about the "damp squib" potential fears which weren't allaed when I spoke to one of the nominated contacts .. who didn't seem to have any idea of what might happen! WHo else can we get in touch with?

DMcG - any word on what should be happening at the demo at the meeting yeaterday? I know Mark Ringwood to contact .. still waiting for him to ring back !


08 Jan 03 - 03:40 AM (#861413)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: fiddler

Noting the comments above, who else can we get on board. The comment I have had is contained above - 'I have to work' I feel srteongly about this one and if it is on will be there, barring emergencies here.

I am assuming that the publicity machine has contacted all areas - dance groups, Morris, Country, American, Folk, even gyms with their aerobics who often display at school fetes etc. Folk Clubs, Jazz Clubs, Students Unions, choirs. Obviously the list goes on forever. I only came up with gyms last night - doubt we'd get much support but one person is better than none.

Praps we should consider the 1000 musician thing again - on a Sunday and all play until the Clock Strikes or summat - BUT - I had put that one to bed as the 27th was proposed.

Yesterday I was feeling frivolous today more desponant!

A


08 Jan 03 - 04:51 AM (#861424)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Mark Ringwood
Modal UK Ltd
Tel: 0870 243 0278
Fax: 01243 789787
www.modal.co.uk
Modal 2003 - Nottingham 11-14 September
----- Original Message -----
From: Hamish Birchall
To: Hamish Birchall
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 9:11 AM
Subject: Licensing: Labour backbenchers to meet Howells tomorrow


With hundreds of letters now pouring into Parliament objecting to the live music provisions of the Licensing Bill, Labour backbenchers are becoming increasingly worried. At very short notice, they have arranged a meeting with licensing Minister Kim Howells. This meeting will be held tomorrow, Thursday 8 January, at noon.

I only learned of this yesterday evening when Martin Linton (Lab, Battersea) contacted me to ask for the names of other Labour MPs who have shown an interest. He wants as many as possible to attend the meeting with Howells.

If your MP is Labour please contact them immediately (the House of Commons switchboard is 020 7219 3000) and urge them to attend this meeting and to register their intention to attend with Martin Linton on 020 7219 1181. If you don't know who your MP is, www.faxyourmp.com will them automatically from your postcode.

A footnote: government Ministers continue dismiss out of hand the legal advice that private events where performers are paid are caught by the Bill. In fact, on the day the Bill was published, the Arts Council received a legal opinion from one of the UK's leading licensing lawyers confirming that corporate hospitality events where performers are paid were licensable under the Bill as published. This contradicted the government's own statement published in the Explanatory Notes that accompany the Bill.


08 Jan 03 - 06:49 AM (#861455)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: breezy

Whats the plan for the 27th as it stands at present please?
What time and where?
Do we perform from the public gallery?
That'll make the papers!
Accapella


08 Jan 03 - 07:46 AM (#861500)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

This is what I keep wanting to know too! I think we should perform!! And have people with big "License BILL Reform" sticks stopping us! Just make sure the papers and TV are there too!

But who is informing the media? Oh... hang on .. I'll call the BBC meself :( (do I have a life outside music, she whinged after 7 hours rooted to a computer working on this issue!)


08 Jan 03 - 07:49 AM (#861504)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: DMcG

The Musician's Union is trying to arrange some sort of trailers, I believe, on the grounds these would be about the exemption under the new bill. I don't know any more than that, I'm afraid.


08 Jan 03 - 11:52 AM (#861598)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Mr Happy

For other relevant info & views, see http://pub22.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=1824620545&cpv=1


Regards,

Mr H


08 Jan 03 - 06:10 PM (#862001)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: SallyM

As I work in London I fully intend to be there during in my lunch hour. I am also trying to drum up support (excuse the pun!) from fellow work mates to come along.
I assume the arrangements are just to gather at 1pm in Parliamentary Square and mime on our instruments ?

Sally


08 Jan 03 - 06:14 PM (#862006)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: GUEST

Who the hell decided to make this a monday lunchtime, stupid or what?


08 Jan 03 - 06:16 PM (#862007)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: GUEST

Agreed, The camel is a horse designed by folk club organisers


08 Jan 03 - 06:43 PM (#862029)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Well, we can make it what we want to surely .. especially as no one seems to be coordinating anything!!


09 Jan 03 - 06:26 AM (#862382)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Admiral

Guest(S) (?) I agree, Monday isn't a good idea regarding us workers but Caroline (and I'm assuming that it was her) has at least organised something and I, for one, feel strongly enough to take a day off work and turn up. I suggest that everyone put their weight behind this unless you'd like to organise something more convenient?
Fiddler: Try and make it, if it were to turn out to be a damp squib that would be a disaster because it would lead to the impression that no-one cared. If nothing else we can always go and have a pint!
SallyM and Breezy: It's a Silent Protest on Mozarts Birthday. I think the idea is to bring an instrument, to show that you are a musician and a gag, to show that we are being silenced. It's as simple as that.


09 Jan 03 - 06:42 AM (#862388)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

Contact:Caroline Kraabel 020 7237 1564.
Caroline is part of the London Musicians' Collective


Hille I think that one of the pronlems is that Caroline does not have online access. Can I suggest that you contact her and offer to inform everyone online?

If you get the up to date info, we can all help to circulate it.

Is the plan not to make any music at all, which seems a bit of a waste for someone lugging a large instrument, or it to the make a point of playing but stopping at and for a agreed certain time?

The latter would make a better media event and if a time was agreed, folk outside London could do a similar protest for their local media at the same time.


09 Jan 03 - 07:11 AM (#862403)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Dave Bryant

I will definitely try to make it on the 27th, but I agree with Vectis that any protest in the middle of a weekday will only attract a very small percentage of the numbers which would be able to turn up for a weekend protest.

The thing that worries me is that if only a limited number of people turn up for a protest, many MPs might think that the opposition to the bill is only a small noisy minority and not realise just how many people really are against it.

Why don't we try and organise a BIG weekend protest to really show the true scale of opposition to the bill ?


09 Jan 03 - 07:17 AM (#862407)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: DMcG

One down on attendance, I'm afraid. My company has arranged a meeting for me out of London on that day.


09 Jan 03 - 07:48 AM (#862430)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: GUEST,Jacob The Little

Right On!
(to keep this near the top!)


09 Jan 03 - 08:11 AM (#862455)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: fiddler

Admiral - pretty certain I'll be there!


I think as you at least someone is organising something.
Praps a weekend demo will gain more support and we could do this on the run up to the 15th March when the petition goes in!

I'll post the idea on the main PEL Thread - if there is one - BUT - I do not in any way shape or form want to detract form this one!!!!!

I've booked the leave already but I am always faced with potential emergencies which can over ride almost anything.

A


10 Jan 03 - 02:59 AM (#863331)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Mr Happy

refresh


10 Jan 03 - 04:38 AM (#863369)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Mr Happy

From another PEL forum at:


http://pub22.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=1824620545
12/17/02 09

'This may be seen as a little silly, but the pro-hunting protest yesterday put me in mind of it. Performers protests: marching bands, buskers, musicians, even jugglers etc. Might catch the popular imagination...'


&

Ah yes- The Countryside Alliance.

They were successful in beating down the govt. to a compromise position.

Although their main objective was to preserve the tradition of fox hunting with hounds- with which I'd be reluctant to align myself- there were many other aspects of country life which would include parallels with the aspects of the new PEL proposals with which folk musicians, singers, dancers & other interested parties are presently taking issue.

How do others feel about approaching them for support?


10 Jan 03 - 05:52 AM (#863398)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Hi
I'm down the library . so not completely to hand with resources...

I spoke with Caroline Kraabel yesterday .. her plan is that we converge at about 12.50pm and hold a silent vigil for an hour.

Personally, I think it will have tremendous pathos .. however, as pointed out CAroline does not have online facilities and could be missing a trick by not being touch with current mood/ opinion / ideas. Certainly, if it is not BIG then it is possibly counter productive.

I think being on line and being in touch, with so many people who are travelling along the SOuth Coast to join up with us here in Worthing to travel to London, that (well in fact Carolione was pleased and surprised) Caroline doesn't realise how big this day has become in folks minds nor what supporters might be expecting.

Personally, rather than waste a trip I would like to see a day in London maximised - especially as so many people are travelling so far.

I propose therefore that WE join in the silent vigil and then after the hour is up at 2pm - what?

IDEAS VERY QUICKLY HERE PLEASE!!

1) I suggest musicians playing .. and people with big sticks* (labelled License Bill) beating them into silence * those foam rubber baseball bats I mean!! This could go on all afternoon. Bring foam rubber baseball bats.

2) the music of many nations eg like an Olympics Games opening .. different "countries" under different flags playing music and the Brits under the Union Jack sitting silent. bring flags

This way we include street theatre and actors (all effected) as well as musicians.

Personally, I would like to see the Salvation Army recreating the historic battle with Worthing's Skeleton Army and both coming off worse (see No. 1)

You email me direct on hillecook@aol.com


10 Jan 03 - 06:00 AM (#863402)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

I will ring Caroline again today and suggest I can disseminate online for her ..


10 Jan 03 - 10:34 AM (#863483)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

That's the spirit that made the petition so effective. Build it and they will come.........just do it.


11 Jan 03 - 05:43 AM (#864240)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: fiddler

Right On!

I'm telling everyone I can by email and word of mouth.

A


11 Jan 03 - 06:25 AM (#864252)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

HO HUm!! Logged on at the Library as of all times for my home modem to blow up ... (hope this is not a sign - like "(She) is NOT on our side.." to paraphrase Wendy Cope the poet :(

Will phone Caroline over the weekend ...sorry, spent all day trying to sort this out yesterday .... and be nback on line soonest :)
XX


12 Jan 03 - 04:31 AM (#865023)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Llanfair

I'm going to be there if I possibly can.

Cheers, Bron.


12 Jan 03 - 06:22 AM (#865047)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: lady penelope

As I work at St.Thomas' Hospital ( just across the river ) it would be grossly neglegent of me not to come. But I do feel that unless there are very large numbers of protesters the silent treatment won't really work. Most people passing by will just think it to be a large number of tourists, milling about.

Are morris sides being brought into this? Any other performers than muscians? I'm going to see if my belly dance teacher knows about this as this bill affects her too.

I'll happily cart a placard about as I don't play an instrument, any ideas what to put on it?

TTFN Penny


13 Jan 03 - 08:39 AM (#865856)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: fiddler

Hillie seems to be our point of cantact on this one!

Not sure whats happening.

we need to get up a head of steam.

A


15 Jan 03 - 01:06 PM (#867539)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

hooraY! Back on line after nearly a week!!

Placards - um, banners say what?
New Tory Traitor - Minister for Anti-Culture Kim Howells (where'd the Eisteddfod go then, boyo?)

£100-£500 (life time premises)for the Brownies to have a concert - more if they want to drink alcohol!

Amend the License Bill now!
(Your club/bands name)
Morris Men should do it with big sticks!

Fine Carol singers £20,000 to go away!


Hamish is getting back to me after his meeting with Caroline and the Police

meanwhile .
The nub of the Musicians' Union objection to the Bill is that the government
is abolishing a number of significant exemptions from the current licensing
requirements (public concerts in churches, two musicians in liquor licensed
premises, clubs etc), but without providing any evidence that extending
licensing control is in any way necessary. It is, however, retaining the
exemption for the provision of broadcast entertainment (i.e. widescreen
satellite/terrestrial tv), but criminalising the provision of even solo
unamplified musicians unless licensed. The maximum penalty for unlicensed
performance is a £20,000 fine and six months in prison. A pub can be packed
with noisy football supporters watching a major fixture on widescreen tv and
that is exempt. Also any music broadcast into the premises (or indeed 'any
place') is exempt, no matter how powerful the amplification used, provided
the recorded music is not for dancing or any other licensable entertainment.
In other words, if it accompanies drinking, eating, shopping etc, it is
exempt. In spite of this, the government has the cheek to say it must
licence all musicians 'because one musician with modern amplification can
make more noise than three without.' Over 80% of noise complaints associated
with pubs and clubs is nothing to do with music at all, but is caused by
noisy people coming and going.


I thinkwe need to pick out the aaLIENT POINTS WE WANT AMENDED A .. sorry new keyboarxd ..

- England & WAles 190 pages - the Scots say "Just do it!"


back in a mo


15 Jan 03 - 07:02 PM (#867851)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis


15 Jan 03 - 07:12 PM (#867857)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

PLease can folks refresh this thread (if they read it) ?   Otherwise theis terrific oppportunity to protest and call for reforms will be lost as know one will know about it!!


16 Jan 03 - 02:09 AM (#868043)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

Does anyone have any ideas?


16 Jan 03 - 06:46 AM (#868154)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Nobody cares ?

Come on everyone .. I know we are all getting sick of this (poss?)

At least pass on to other folks in other parts of the country (ie Labour MPs) to sign up for EDM331

http://edm.ais.co.uk/weblink/html/motion.html/ref=331

to amend the Act


17 Jan 03 - 02:05 PM (#868933)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Col K

Seeing my MP tomorrow at his local surgery will try to convince him to sign EDM 331
I will try to come to London on the 27th but it it is a long way and expensive from Lancashire but it is very important that we have a good turnout.
Col K


17 Jan 03 - 02:06 PM (#868934)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Anyone else travelling on the day could offer lifts?


17 Jan 03 - 05:39 PM (#869098)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: fiddler

Train from REading I'm afraid - anyone not want to drive in London I can sor tout free parking!

My howse!

A


17 Jan 03 - 06:07 PM (#869122)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Train from Worthing along South Coast (Littlehampton - Victoria) meet my house 9.30 prompt or Worthing Railway Station 10.00am for press photos

NB: Group Travel discounts apply (1/3rd off) for 10 or more ...


17 Jan 03 - 08:06 PM (#869185)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

At a meeting locally tonight - we discussed the demo and our imput. We resolved that as this is a national campaign and is being organised as a "silent" campaign we should respect that. SO absolute silence everyone .. but we are getting our local press along to see us off at the Railway Station (phor's and then following it up (once the profile has been raised nationally with our own local day of action.

However, we did decide though that big blow up hammers to "silence" any one daring to make a sound was a good bet though!


18 Jan 03 - 07:56 PM (#869650)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis


19 Jan 03 - 10:58 AM (#869889)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: GUEST,rock chick

Will do my best to make it, lets hope the turn out is good.


19 Jan 03 - 04:13 PM (#870055)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: GUEST

refresh


20 Jan 03 - 03:49 AM (#870340)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Admiral

Just keeping this thread 'live'. I've booked the day off work and have been given some surgical masks by a nurse friend of mine so I'll be there along with one two others. Even if you can't make it, encourage others to turn out. If you think it doesn't concern you, think again, this is a basic fundamental human right that is at risk. Even if the PEL fee turns out to be achievable by the pub not all pubs are considered to be suitable without considerable building work and yet these same rooms are considered entirely suitable to be packed by football fans screaming at a television set! I have never attended a protest before but this time I feel I have stand on my hind legs and wave my paws about.
The on line petition is now over 42,000 and still climbing, lets back it up with a good turn out on the 27th.


21 Jan 03 - 07:51 PM (#871853)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: breezy

refesh where and when we meet please.


21 Jan 03 - 07:59 PM (#871862)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

Hello fellow music protesters
Please excuse the delay in sending this out, I was waiting for it to become clear what would be happening on Monday 27 Jan.

I went (with MU representatives) to meet the security people at the Houses of Parliament and was told that they allow a maximum of 150 protesters in Parliament Square, on the strip of pavement directly opposite the Parliament building.

The rest of Parliament Square is under the jurisdiction of the Greater London Authority, and so I asked them for permission to use it for our peaceful protest - I haven't heard back from them, but was told when I first called them that they basically NEVER allow people to use Parliament Square.

The MU considered hiring a hall for us to meet in, but decided against it on cost grounds and because it would have reduced our visibility.

Also, there is a group of antiwar protesters currently (tuesday) occupying the usable strip of pavement on Parliament Square; they may still be there on Monday (and I wish them every success).

However, we do all have the right to lobby our MPs on the days that Parliament is sitting, which includes next Monday. They sit from 2:30 but we can start queueing up to lobby them earlier (from 1:00, say), at St. Stephen's Entrance to the Houses of Parliament (on St. Margaret's St.) and along St. Margaret St./Old Palace Yard and westward towards Lambeth Bridge - we can queue several deep as long as we don't obstruct the pavement completely, so we will be quite visible.

We can have placards but we must leave them outside when we are let in and pick them up when we come out again (I'm thinking of one that says "no war; no war on music" - other obvious ones would be "the day the music died" or 'the sound of silence' - if you're coming from outside London, consider having a sign that says so, to emphasise the widespread concerns about this bill).

I understand that there have been queues to lobby that stretched all the way to Lambeth Bridge, across the bridge and along the embankment on the other side! When/if you get in to the central lobby (the first 200 or so generally get in), you fill in your MPs name OR the name of a relevant minister (in this case Tessa Jowell and Kim Howells) on a green card and they come and hear what you have to say.

You can access a copy of the bill on www.publications.parliament.uk. It's particularly important to get Labour MPs to read the bill for themselves, because they've been told that it will make things better for musicians - tell them to check out Schedule 1, and parts 134-137, 170-172, 177 and 193.

At the moment, it seems that what is likely to happen is that a small number of protesters will be in Parliament Square at 1:00 for a possible photocall (there has been a press release sent to TV, papers etc) while most protesters will be at St. Stephen's entrance and along the pavement from it (which we hope will also get press coverage).

There will be stewards present from the Musicians Union, easily identifiable - including one at Wetsminster tube station - they will be able to tell you if there is any last minute change of plan.

Please bring your instrument and dress the part, weather permitting - I will be bringing some surgical masks with black "x"s on them, made with electrical tape - feel free to do likewise. It should still be possible to make an impression.

Please pass this message on!
Thanks, Caroline Kraabel
020 7237 1564


21 Jan 03 - 08:28 PM (#871885)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: McGrath of Harlow

Do they have any rules against taking musical instruments into the House of Commons when you are lobbying? I strongly suspect they do, in case people wrap them round an MP's head.

Not that that matters - if people are refused admission because they have an instrument, it adds to the theatre and the symbolism.

I'd have hoped that some friendly MP might have been able to book a room in the House of Commons for a meeting after.


22 Jan 03 - 11:36 AM (#872285)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Admiral

Now I'm getting confused, I thought that this was going to be a simple protest! Does one have to make an appointment to lobby ones MP? And if so, how does one go about that?


22 Jan 03 - 01:43 PM (#872344)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: fiddler

Looks like I'm out of it I'm afraid

Been sick all week so far and am trying even to crawl out of a gig on Friday!
The upshot is I am called to work and clients - flat out next week - no time to be ill in this world.

Will still get there is I can but if we are only allowed 150 (ish) then I assume the demo will be full.


If I don't make it I will be with you in spirit I am still trying to arrange it! very p*ssed off

A


22 Jan 03 - 01:48 PM (#872350)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: McGrath of Harlow

No need for an appointment. Just leave your name and your constituency details at the door when you call, and they send a message

Of course if you really want to see him or her it might be polite to indicate in advance. faxyourmp.


23 Jan 03 - 04:29 AM (#872652)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: fiddler

I know this is the petition line but .....

I'm not being despondent but what more can we do!

The Demo sadly is basically flawed now as Hans Blix (not sure on spelling)is reporting back to the UN that day and George Bush will be pushing for us to support him in a war bid! The international posturing has already begun.

SO - Who is going to be interested in a group of (as the public know us) tax fiddling musicians who play in pubs and wierdo folkies who are not part of the real world and include Morris Dancers? The whole of this is overshadowed by the middle east primarily the gulf situation, which do I agree is very important.

Subsequent to this Kim Howells can get away with almost defamatory comments about the MU and others of us, and seems quite happy to suggest that lawyers specialised in the field (who perhaps stand to make a lot of money out of the badly formatted bill) are misinterpreting it. I think it is good to have a controversial culture minister but I would feel happier if he understood what he was talking about, he does seem to be developing the knack of inserting large foot in to mouth on a regular basis.

The Magistrates are not happy about moving the control of liquor licencing to the LAs and see many problems arising. The Govt is not listening to them either - To busy in the middle east.

I 'hope and pray' for a good meet on 27th - I will be there if I can, but currently can't, after keeping the date free for weeks! So back to line two - Where can we go form here - how can we interest the public and MPs in a piece of badly drafted legislation which is far less headline grabbing than XX thousand troops from UK and America being sent out to the middle east with no socks!!!

BTW on a lighter note NO I don't hold with us putting a topless model on the front of the Sun saying I can't take my clothes off for you anymore - even though it might work :-)

I've been really boring and bad and put this on the demo thread too, I think we have got to start thinking hard or we will loose!

A


23 Jan 03 - 06:20 AM (#872701)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: GUEST,Jane Bird

I don't think we can afford to appear to do nothing on this issue, simply because of our fears that we won't be noticed.

This legislation deserves to be seriously ammended, as it's been so appaulingly badly drafted! Once I'd finally waded through the Bill, I couldn't believe it!

Jane


23 Jan 03 - 09:20 AM (#872787)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Admiral

Good On You Fiddler - We''ll get you there yet! Just to wind you up a little further (and if it doesn't you, it sure as hell does me!) I've just read that the Art Council is to award a rescue package of 'millions of pounds' to the English National Opera - on top of the £15 million grant that it is already to get this year and has thrown away in a fit of bad management. And all that at the same time that the indigenous Music and Dance of these Islands is being at best ignored and at worse, trampled into the ground, apparently to make more money (would that be for the Arts people to throw at Opera?)

Excuse me, I'm just going to spit!

Tony


23 Jan 03 - 09:26 AM (#872792)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: GUEST,Hille (in an Internet cafe in Malaga)

Ola!

See you all at the demo )maybe we should bring placards to represent those who can´t get ther)

BTW ... Costa del Sol is scary visaion of life without live music ... suffered all this week (sadly, not in irony) just yukky Brit bars with C&W or Barbra Streisand .... get me out of here!!! Bingo and pub quizzes and wide screen Sky football matches do not a cultural experience make!!

Adios Amigos
Hille
xxx


23 Jan 03 - 10:01 AM (#872806)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: SallyM

A spark of inspiration ! - to reinforce this ridiculous PEL situation (and bring it to the top again). How about we also bring along tape recorders and play - legal - taped music which we could mime to (it also happens to be the London Mime Festival this week !).

See you there on Monday !
S.


23 Jan 03 - 11:08 AM (#872873)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Admiral

That's great Sally! And Kim Howells can mime being Culture Secretary!


23 Jan 03 - 07:16 PM (#873329)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: vectis

Now that I've got to see.

Cracking idea Sally. One tape deck. A lorry load of mobile speakers going full blast.
You lot gagged and silent in the middle of Parliament Square.
If you've got the wattage to break windows you might, just might get the point across.
Make sure the media are made aware that recorded music and mobile music will be legal but acoustic music won't be.


23 Jan 03 - 07:51 PM (#873373)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: JudeL

I'm coming and so's Paul, he's taken the day off work. A couple more friends are also currently trying to arrange time off to come


24 Jan 03 - 02:45 PM (#873999)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

Any chance of taking along a safe 'locked ' piano?

For mobile DEMO purposes, perhaps a cardboard one, with a big key?


24 Jan 03 - 03:42 PM (#874059)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Folkiedave

So sorry I can't make it............

And since I can't play or sing anything I would have been a perfect protester....

Dave


25 Jan 03 - 10:11 AM (#874595)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

Has anyone got some bare wires to trail through the Commons?

I hear Dr Howells is going to produce a document for Monday, which claims we are all being misled...............


25 Jan 03 - 11:02 AM (#874637)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: DMcG

If there is a 'Monday document'it will almost certainly be a rehash of the one the MU were given. We could probably have a reply ready to hand in. Have the MU prepared a response yet?


25 Jan 03 - 11:47 AM (#874671)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

I suspect it will follow on the lines of this from Dr Howells, in The Stage

I am grateful to The Stage for giving me the opportunity to explode some of the urban myths that are circulating about how the government's reforms of the licensing system will affect live performances. We have consulted artists and performers in drawing up the licensing bill and we are listening to people's concerns.

The last thing that any of us would want to do is threaten the traditions of performance that have been at the very heart of our nation's cultural life for hundreds of years. There is concern that the new legislation will make staging performances prohibitively expensive. In fact, the opposite is the case. The current licensing system discourages premises from staging performances, the cost of entertainment licences in many areas is ridiculously high and many local authorities attach unnecessary conditions to the licences.

Under the new system, the cost of a premises licence authorising three licensable activities will be the same as that of one. For example, any pub that applies for permission to sell alcohol can apply to stage entertainment at the same time at no extra charge. We currently expect premises licence applications to cost between £100 and £500 (a one-off fee) with an annual charge of £50 to £150. The fee for a premises licence will be the same whether the applicant seeks permission to sell alcohol only or to have regulated entertainment as well. Under the existing system, premises licence applications can cost up to £20,000 per annum, depending on location. So the bill can represent an enormous reduction in the cost of obtaining a public entertainment licence for live performances.

We will also be issuing guidance alongside the bill that will make it clear that any conditions attached to licences must be tailored to the needs of the particular premises. The issuing of swathes of unnecessary and irrelevant conditions will become a thing of the past. Some artists are concerned that the bill makes it an offence to carry out a performance without a licence and that the potential punishments are a prison sentence of up to six months or a fine of up to £20,000.

It is understandable that some people find these penalties intimidating but I must stress that these are maximum penalties and, as with all offences, the courts would, on any conviction, decide the appropriate punishments depending on the facts of the case. Where, for example, the public have been put in danger, such maximum punishment may be appropriate. What is more, the bill includes a specific defence of due diligence because this bill is about deregulation, not incarceration.

I realise that some people believe a licence should not be required for unamplified music as existing legislation provides sufficient safeguards. However, I do not accept that certain types of music, such as acoustic folk music, are never noisy and should therefore be excluded from the new regime.

It is the government's responsibility to balance the needs of performers, organisers, businesses, residents and customers. Our reform proposals are designed to be proactive, not reactive.

The bill will bring a less formal system for temporary activities. Under the new regime, anyone aged 18 or over can hold up to five of these per year, or 50 if they are a personal licence holder, under the authority of a temporary event notice. Each event can last up to 72 hours and up to five events can be held at one premises in any year, although no more than 499 people can be on the premises at the same time. To carry on a permitted temporary activity only a simple notification to the licensing authority and the police and a small fee of around £20 is required.

Some of the more unhelpful rumours that have been circulating (and which I see everyday in correspondence from members of parliament writing on behalf of concerned constituents) relate to live music performances that might be licensable under the new regime. I therefore categorically state that the following will not be licensable:

1) church bell ringers practising n the testing of equipment in a music shop

2) studio recording sessions n rehearsals at a practice studio or in a private house (to which the general public are not admitted)

3) school concerts where the general public are not admitted n music lessons

4) singing 'happy birthday' in a restaurant

5) musicians paid to perform at a private party - including a wedding - for which those attending are not charged and to which the general public are not admitted.

I have sought here to address the most ridiculous claims made by those who purport to be campaigning on behalf of musicians but who are in fact diverting them from the more realistic and positive aspects of the bill.

I am also aware that there is a strong feeling that our plans to remove the exemptions for performances held in churches outside Greater London but not connected with a religious service or event will have a negative impact on the national music scene. Again, I would like to reassure you that we have made a commitment to reconsider our position on the licensing of churches and that we will announce our conclusions as soon as possible.

I believe that the reforms of the licensing bill will give the arts in England a new lease of life rather than be its death knell, as some are suggesting. The Department for Culture, Media and Sport is of course responsible for the arts as well as alcohol licensing legislation and we are not in the business of sacrificing one to achieve the aims of another.

I can assure you that we continue to have both performers and their audiences at the forefront of our minds as we take the bill through the Houses of Parliament.

Dr Kim Howells is parliamentary under-secretary at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport


26 Jan 03 - 02:54 PM (#875297)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: clansfolk

Is the demo still going ahead?

and if it is what are the final arrangements??

cheers


26 Jan 03 - 03:04 PM (#875310)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Hi y'all,

The demo is still going ahead .. altho' I gather that media attention will inevitably be on Anit-War protesters also setting up a permanent vigil.

There will be Musicians Union stewards in the vicinity of westminster underground to advise people.

So, turn up, converge and let's do it!!

PS. Anyone got a Mudcat rendezvous plan / banner?

I'm with the WORTHING contingent.
HIlle
PS: almost but not quite insane after a week of Celine Dion /Barbra Streisand and Dean Martin


26 Jan 03 - 03:27 PM (#875325)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis


26 Jan 03 - 07:21 PM (#875445)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Last call ...


26 Jan 03 - 11:17 PM (#875528)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Col K

See you all there, I'm coming down from Lancashire so lets have plenty of others there.
Col


27 Jan 03 - 04:20 AM (#875607)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Just about to get the train .. the suns shining .. and the local press are actually going to send along a photographer .. yippee after the bastards failed miserably to put anything in any of the three local publications...


27 Jan 03 - 07:26 AM (#875673)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: clansfolk

Hope it all goes well,

If like me you were unable to get up to London, and would like to be involved, don't forget the sing in' demo at Fleetwood Lancashire on Thursday 30th Jan - all day in the pub - sing, dance, play - get people to sign the petition, spread the word etc.... BBC Radio Lancashire will be there.

More Information


cheers - Pete


27 Jan 03 - 03:37 PM (#875970)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: vectis

No coverage seen on Channel 4. I missed the 6pm News because I was working late. Was there anything on the demo or did it get totally forgotten in the hysteria over Iraq?


27 Jan 03 - 04:07 PM (#876007)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Nemesis

Totally forgotten in the hysteria .. let's see what the 10pm news brings?

Our MP Peter Bottomley met us at Victoria and excorted all the way to Parliament Sq.,, then sang (an excrable song it has to be said!!) to waiting press people!!


27 Jan 03 - 04:21 PM (#876016)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

This from Terry Redmond

The protest seemed to go pretty well, Police officers I spoke too estimated the attendance at around 500, no problems and a few press. A lot of attention paid , not surprisingly, to a young lady championing the cause of Cabaret and demonstrating amply why just 2 in a bar was never a good idea.

Doc Rowe buzzing around and getting video footage, all classes of music represented from Classic through Jazz, Rock, Folk and New Age, even one chap with a conductors baton. (Very few took any notice....)

Then on to the House to lobby MP's which is where I fell foul of technology and failed to pass the metal detectors...only afterwards realising that it was the metal threads in the waistcoat that stopped me......

So if anyone can fill in on the numbers of MP's who did come down and take on board the concerns voiced I'd be very interested.

However having gone outside I was able to talk off the record to some BBC reps, a couple of the clerical staff of the House and some of the Police. None were aware of how wide sweeping and badly worded the Bill was nor how many times the Minister has lied to or misled the Press.

The Police officers who did stop and chat were amused at the thought of attempting to 'run in' the kinds of numbers that were represented and could not envisage any force committing the amount of manpower that would be required.

Any senior police officer who could comment? I'm sure that just as there are Performing Lawyers we must have Singing Police


27 Jan 03 - 04:26 PM (#876021)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: McGrath of Harlow

Five or six hundred hundred of us, and a fair amount of press, and telly - whether it gets in the media is of course entirely another matter.

Lots of Mudcatters in evidence, especially in the contingent which sloped off from the lobby queue to carry out some Direct Action in the Red Lion pub across the road.

This consisted of drinking lots of beer and singing and playing until at last the landlady came out and said that though she was enjoying it and so were the other customers, she couldn't risk having more than two people singing or playing, otr she mightb lose her licence. Which was good, because it helped make the point about how bloody silly even the present system is, let alone the proposed one.

I called in to lobby my MP. As I had anticipated, the police insisted on taking my guitar in its case into custody while I was in the building - but, more surprisingly, they also insisted on holding on to my electronic tuner, and, even more bizarrely, my wooden bones. I'm not too sure what they thought I might have done with them. (Apart from playing them, I suppose.) I never got to see my MP, but he'll get another fax in his letter tray tomorrow.


27 Jan 03 - 04:27 PM (#876024)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Micca

Shambles, no Luck with Tony Banks(my MP) he wasnt available ,but I will write to him again anyway, and voice my concerns to him, I hope to go back and see him face to face as I only live a tube ride away!!


27 Jan 03 - 04:28 PM (#876025)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

This from John Smedley

Further to Terry's account of today's gathering. . .
I went with five other people from around west Kent, and our estimate
agrees with Terry's copper's, ie around 500 people present.   With so many familiar faces, I reckon that about 75% of the crowd were folkies, with a good smattering of jazzers, and a few 'the rest'.   
Despite being a 'silent' protest, a few folkie musos were tempted to play. I've always said that the problem with folk musicians is not getting them to play - it's getting them to stop playing!

My lot didn't stay to lobby our MP, as he's told us he's on our side.   (Well he would be - he's a Tory...) It was a pleasant, typically English, gathering - good-humoured and well-behaved.

Everyone's thanks should go to Caroline Kraabel, whose idea it was, and who welcomed and handed out 'gags' to everyone. And - a rare event in January - the sun shone on us all, proving the rightness of our case.


John Smedley


27 Jan 03 - 07:18 PM (#876161)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: stevetheORC

McGrath we told you dem bones wus dangerus wepuns you is a dangerus looking individule :-)))

We Orc's now this to be true.


27 Jan 03 - 08:02 PM (#876197)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: McGrath of Harlow

Now here's de word of de orc...

MPs always say they agree with you, no matter what you say. (This sometimes breaks down when they are talking to several people with different points of view from each other. But they often have ways of giving all of them the impression they are really on their side. It's a real gift.)


28 Jan 03 - 09:01 AM (#876524)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Admiral

John Smedley/The Shambles,

Don't be too hard on those who played. Although I made sure that I and a few others were there by 12.55, there was no indication to when the half hours period of silence was supposed to start so I guess most of us stood around chewing the fat with people we don't see very often waiting for the moment which never arrived! The thing that I will say in my defence that I was interviewed by Channel 4 during this time and managed to put the point across although the demo doesn't appear to made the news in any way shape or form - a shame but I guess it was the wrong day! A no-news is good news day would have suited us better!


28 Jan 03 - 10:41 AM (#876590)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Dave Bryant

I assumed that the silence was supposed to start when Big Ben (the hour bell in the clocktower) struck one. It was the jazz band who carried on playing. I also thought that it was only supposed to be a musical silence, not the full Service of Remembrance sort. After all, I didn't think that a PEL was needed for normal conversation. A few of deliberately DID sing and play up to that point.


28 Jan 03 - 11:06 AM (#876607)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: McGrath of Harlow

There's a shortish article about this in The Times today. You'll find it on this site if you use their search engine and type in "licensing bill".

But much more significant is the Guardian. They published a big picture in the main paper of a gagged musician, pointing to a first class feature in their Arts and Review Section - Stop that fiddling - "No more impromptu gigs, open-mike nights or even singalongs. Can live music survive the new licensing bill, asks Tim Cumming".

Best coverage this has had in the press so far. Kim Howells will be grinding his teeth. And then coming out all wounded innocence and saying how much he loves us - but this article should alert a lot of relevant people to what is wrong, and could actually affect things, I hope and believe. I really believe that we could get an exemption if we keep pushing.

Tim Cummings deserves a round of applause and a round of drinks.

(As for "silence" that was symbolic, and it doesn't matter a toss what actually happened. What matters is that it got us some media coverage - and in any case so far as any press coverage was concerned, the silence was total. Broken only by the supportive honks of passing motorists. I felt like a fireman on strike.)

This calls for another set of faxes to MPs. Especially to MPs who didn't respond to a request to come downand talk about it to the lobby. (http://www.faxyourmp.com/)


28 Jan 03 - 12:59 PM (#876713)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: JudeL

Have sent the pic of mudcatters in the Red Lion to pene azul with a list of who's who. I tried to get the names right but if I got the names wrong I apologise. Oh and there's one person, at the back, who's name if I was told I'm sorry but I don't remember.

Notable for their absence are Col K and Micca, who at that point had gone walkabout. Herga Kitty also was at the demo but missed the picture in the pub.

Cheers Jude


28 Jan 03 - 03:52 PM (#876885)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

A bit of coverage on the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/2697287.stm


28 Jan 03 - 04:54 PM (#876948)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: The Shambles

A few photos. Click here.

http://www.intlog.demon.co.uk/PEL/indexpage1.htm


28 Jan 03 - 06:20 PM (#877006)
Subject: RE: PEL: DEMO 27 JANUARY 2003
From: Noreen

red lion demo pic mentioned above by Jude.