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BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?

22 Nov 02 - 09:47 AM (#832512)
Subject: Obit: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Mr Happy

apart from leeks, dafodils, ivor emmanuel, gloomy mining songs, tom jones, richard burton, taffy & dylan thomas the tank engine?


22 Nov 02 - 09:52 AM (#832518)
Subject: RE: Obit: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Lyndi-loo

What about Shirley Bassey, Anthony Hopkins, The International Eisteddfod, Wonderful Choirs and last (but certainly not least) Second homes for White Settlers!


22 Nov 02 - 09:54 AM (#832522)
Subject: RE: Obit: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Genie

Didn't they also give us one of the longest town names in recorded history? ;-)


22 Nov 02 - 09:56 AM (#832524)
Subject: RE: Obit: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,noddy

cheese on toast


22 Nov 02 - 09:56 AM (#832525)
Subject: RE: Obit: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: HuwG

Henry Tudor (Henry VII); David Lloyd George; the coal which fired the British Empire; the Lions' best captains and players; Bryn Terfel; Geraint Evans; Catatonia (the group, not the medical condition); The Manic Street Preachers; etc. etc.


22 Nov 02 - 09:56 AM (#832526)
Subject: RE: Obit: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,noddy

rthe highest pint of beer in the UK


22 Nov 02 - 09:58 AM (#832528)
Subject: RE: Obit: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Mr Happy

welsh rarebit

caerphilly cheese

wrexham fc

cosher bailey 9or should he be in the jews thred?]

tiger bay

the arms park- mass folk singing venue

sheep

harry secombe


22 Nov 02 - 10:04 AM (#832537)
Subject: RE: Obit: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Mr Happy

the highest pint of beer in the UK?- d'ye mean its gone off?


22 Nov 02 - 10:24 AM (#832558)
Subject: RE: Obit: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: HuwG

... and the slates which roofed the British Empire; a fair number of Australia's early (convict) settlers; Neil Kinnock (best PM we never had); Patagonia's early settlers; Richard Llewelyn; Stanley Baker; Pobol y Cwm; transvestite rioters; etc. etc.


22 Nov 02 - 10:30 AM (#832561)
Subject: RE: Obit: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Sandy McLean

My mother in law was from Wales . She came to Canada as a war-bride.
She has done more for me than I could tell.
                         Sandy


22 Nov 02 - 11:14 AM (#832592)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: sian, west wales

The "=" sign.

America, or at least the name, "America".

18 signers of the Declaration of Independence.

Ioan Gruffydd.

Some great hymns: Hyfrydol, Cwm Rhondda, Aberystwyth, et al.

All Through the Night

Deck the Halls

The Actuary tables (for insurance)

Those hedging coniferous things that I can't spell but make neighbours want to shoot each other. Leilandi?

The first mail-order catelogue business.

Robert Owen.

Some might say Merlin.

First beer in tin cans.

Corgis

Those terriers that look like lambs and were bred in Pembrokeshire - can't remember the name of the breed. Bedlington?

sian


22 Nov 02 - 11:30 AM (#832608)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: HuwG

Are you including youself, Sian, or is that just your signature ?

"Cypress Leylandii", by the way.


Charlotte Church; Max Boyce; Ryan and Ronnie (much missed); the steam railway (never mind Stephenson et al; the first one ran in Penydarren in 1820-something);Most of the immortal 1973 Bar-bars; etc.


22 Nov 02 - 11:34 AM (#832611)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Paddy Plastique

John Charles



Cardiff City Hooligans



Somewhere for all us seasick Paddies to vomit on dry land (Holyhead)


22 Nov 02 - 11:37 AM (#832613)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: sian, west wales

HuwG, modesty does not permit....

And let us add: Guiness.

sian


22 Nov 02 - 11:59 AM (#832641)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Paddy Plastique

Sian,

Are you spelling it with 1 'n' for copyright purposes ?? :->

I have drunk draught Guinness down here in the SW of France which had come from a brewery in Llanelli

Served by a Welsh Breton called Dave

Only decent stout I've ever gotten in France...


22 Nov 02 - 12:20 PM (#832656)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Mr Happy

don't call will on yer father!


22 Nov 02 - 12:28 PM (#832664)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: curmudgeon

Baggyrinkle!


22 Nov 02 - 12:33 PM (#832671)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: breezy

Breezy, won some soccer games, won Bitain's only gold weight-lifting medals in the Commonwealth games,organised milk deliveries, led the way in singing,taught London's kids,need I go on?


22 Nov 02 - 12:41 PM (#832679)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST

Paddy Plastique, Holyhead is a dump but South Stack and the lighthouse is quite nice if you happen to be in that area.


22 Nov 02 - 02:03 PM (#832758)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gareth

The NHS based on the Tredeger Miners Health Scheme. Sorry you U S Of A catters your time will come.

The Stones at Stonehenge.

Archers capable of slaughtering French and Spanish Chivalry.

A reason for the English to feel inferior.

Water for the Brummies !

Gold

Preserved Railwaylines.

Nye Bevan.

A short cut between the ROI and English building sites.


Garydd ap Godri ap ( continue for severel hundred ancestors)


22 Nov 02 - 02:12 PM (#832763)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST

Owain Glyndwr


22 Nov 02 - 02:23 PM (#832770)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: RoyH (Burl)

At last! Someone has mentioned the great Nye Bevan.


22 Nov 02 - 06:02 PM (#832958)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: RangerSteve

Robin Huw Bowen.


22 Nov 02 - 06:16 PM (#832966)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: MARINER

They've also given us Meic Stevens, and with a little help from Ireland, way back, The Hennessy's which includes Frank Hennessy one of Wales' greatest modern writer of folk songs. Surprised no one mentioned either of them.


22 Nov 02 - 07:30 PM (#833008)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Bill

Os dydych chi ddim yn gwybod---Tough
Bill (the sound)


22 Nov 02 - 07:37 PM (#833023)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Mr Red

if this thread is going to DragOn at least I can console myself that it is a red one.


22 Nov 02 - 07:41 PM (#833026)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST

Ranger Steve, thanks, amidst all this stuff, it appears we had managed to miss out a master of the triple harp and a great exponent of Welsh music.


22 Nov 02 - 07:45 PM (#833030)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: greg stephens

Dai Gent invented the concept of the specialist scrum half and fly half, as opposed to the previous habit of just having a left and right half.
   Joseph Parry wrote the hymn tune "Aberystwyth" for "Jesu lover of my soul". And hymn tunes don't come any more throbbing with emotion than that.


22 Nov 02 - 09:54 PM (#833130)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Tom Hamilton

The welsh gave us quite a lot, names of towns that us Scots can't say.
A Goon and great singing.


22 Nov 02 - 10:08 PM (#833152)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: CET

Sian: "America?". Tell us more.


23 Nov 02 - 08:14 AM (#833341)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gareth

America ? -

Gareth


23 Nov 02 - 08:15 AM (#833342)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Marc

Wasn't Stan Hugill from Wales?


23 Nov 02 - 08:18 AM (#833343)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: greg stephens

I may have overlooked a message, but I dont think anyone has mentioned Cwm Rhonnda, all time favourite for funerals, weddings and rugger games.


23 Nov 02 - 03:29 PM (#833400)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gareth

Ooops a Mud splatter.

Amirica - Well the Welsh sailed there long before Columbus did !

Gareth


23 Nov 02 - 06:24 PM (#833492)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST

Well if it wasn't us boys, Anne Robinson wouldn't be what she is today - The Weakest Link!!

And God bless you Curmudgeon.

Regards Skipper Jack,
Baggyrinkle (The ONLY shanty group in Wales)


23 Nov 02 - 08:42 PM (#833585)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Hrothgar

They took a lot of surplus cattle off Englishmen's hands.

HuwG, I didn't know Willie John McBride was Welsh.


24 Nov 02 - 12:52 AM (#833692)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST

Dacw Mam yn Dwad


24 Nov 02 - 06:12 AM (#833746)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Skipper Jack

Has anybody mentioned:
Ivor Novello?
Donald (by a babbling brook)Peers?


24 Nov 02 - 09:03 AM (#833803)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Mr Happy

myfanwy- fantastic tune & song

i hear an 'orse [all thru the night]

miners choirs

s4c- some brill rhaglenni[programmes]with eng subtitles, when there's nowt worth watching on the other channels.also another chance to see anything you missed or wish to see again from channel 4.there's frequent folk progs too & often features trad dancing + morris.


24 Nov 02 - 09:54 AM (#833832)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST

What happened to Ryan and Ronnie? They could be quite funny.


24 Nov 02 - 10:35 AM (#833849)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: MARINER

Hells teeth, i forgot Dafyd and Gyyndaf Roberts (Ar Log), two of the finest harpists (triple I do believe)to come from there. As for Ryan and Ronnie, they were a very funny pair but I think Ryan passed away many years ago.Perhaps someone can enlighten us on that.


24 Nov 02 - 10:45 AM (#833855)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST

I did a search on Ryan and Ronnie after asking here and found this:

RYAN & RONNIE (early '70s)
BBC CYMRU

BI-LINGUAL WELSH sketch show anglicised by the Beeb for a wider audience. There was, predictably, a very Celtic flavour to the comedy. The best remembered part was soap-opera, 'Our House', in which RYAN DAVIES played the mother and RONNIE WILLIAMS the father of a generally dysfunctional valleys family. The errant daughter (called Phyllis-Doris and played by MYFANWY TALOG) was constantly berating her parents for their general lack of anything approaching modern attitudes. The son (Nigel Wynn, played by BRYN WILLIAMS) was good for nothing much but this didn't stop "Mam" from referring to him constantly as 'the light of my life'. Ryan died of a heart attack mid-70s in New York. Ronnie tried to carry on, but life collapsed into alcoholism and bankruptcy.


24 Nov 02 - 11:41 AM (#833881)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Skipper Jack

A few more names spring to mind;

David Lloyd George

Bonnie Tyler
Maudie Edwards
Dorothy Squires
Shakin' Stevens

Isn't Michael Hesseltine Welsh? I know he has or had a house in Swansea? Though I am not sure what he has done for us?

Has any one mentioned Cathryn Zeta Jones?


24 Nov 02 - 11:45 AM (#833885)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: greg stephens

I'm glad nobody's mentioned Enoch Powell.


24 Nov 02 - 12:50 PM (#833926)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gareth

Well - If we must mention Wales' shame.

Hesseltine, Sir Geoffrey Howe, Woy Jenkins, Lord Owen....

And the less said about yesterdays Rugby result the better.

Oh and for the benefit of U S of A catters - John L. Lewis, a great man.

Gareth


25 Nov 02 - 03:57 AM (#834335)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Bullfrog Jones

The first red flag as a symbol of revolution -- a sheet dipped in sheep's blood raised at Merthyr.

BJ


25 Nov 02 - 04:50 AM (#834348)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: sian, west wales

Gareth, I don't know if Stan Hugill was born/raised in Wales, but I believe he taught at a ... sailing school? outward bound type of place? in Wales. Not sure if it wasn't somewhere around Barmouth...

Re: Ryan and Ronnie, Ryan actually died in New York *state" - either Buffalo or Rochester, again working from memory. Ronnie only died a few years ago and, although I suppose the BBC report is accurate, it isn't entirely fair. Ronnie did some very good work, sometime some quite amazing 'out of the envelope' stuff, following Ryan's unexpected demise and I'd hate for people to completely dismiss him. I know that he also did a bit of mentoring of Ryan's son who plays Mark on Pobl y Cwm, amongst other things.

I suppose to extend the list we should add, in addition to the International Eisteddfod, the general concept of Eisteddfod (although we might not think that it's a 100 per cent good thing). Australia has a lot of eisteddfodau, doesn't it? And my father always told me that the Kiwanis Festivals in Canada were started by a Kiwanis member who was from Wales...

Oh, and Lawrence of Arabia, SuperTed, Henry Morton Stanley (as in "Dr. Livingston, I presume?"), the Snowdon Lily, and I think we have the first government in Europe to have an official Sustainable Development Policy.

sian


25 Nov 02 - 05:04 AM (#834350)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Mr Happy

& the welsh empire: Patagonia!


25 Nov 02 - 05:05 AM (#834351)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Whippett

Apart from being annoying bleating rugby playing sheep loving overbearing pompous prats what more can they give...


25 Nov 02 - 06:27 AM (#834380)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Skipper Jack

There's Idris Davies The Tonypandy Poet who gave us the poem "Bells Of Rhymney" set to music of course music by Pete Seeger.


25 Nov 02 - 06:46 AM (#834386)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: sian, west wales

Further, the term "bug" as in "computer bug" which can be traced back to the Welsh "bwgan" (bogey, evil spirit, nasty spirit type of thing)

According to this site we can add

Jack Daniels

Elvis Presly

Lawn Tennis

Golf scoring system


sian


25 Nov 02 - 06:51 AM (#834389)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: songs2play

I don't believe it.
Mr H, how dare you.
The answer to your question is obvious.
Everything that is worth anything.

Best wishes from a Rhondda Valley Boy.


I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE.


25 Nov 02 - 06:51 AM (#834390)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Mr Happy

Elvis Presly- preseli?


25 Nov 02 - 08:33 AM (#834449)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: HuwG

sian from west wales and CET: There is another Welsh connection to the New World which was discussed some years ago. It is well known that Cabot (I forget which - John ? Sebastian ?) made a landfall in Newfoundland in 1497. His journals revealed that he had a lot of help from his pilot, one "John Scolvus". "Scolvus" is Latin for skilful. It is thought that this was actually one John Lloyd, a Welshman of Bristol; and he was so much help to Cabot because he had been there before. (Several Bristol merchants apparently knew about the rich fishing grounds of the Grand Banks, but wanted to keep the knowledge to themselves).

Evidently, the Bristol (and Welsh) attitudes to voyages of exploration differed greatly from Columbus's (and Cabot's) heavily-subsidised state enterprises. What happens should two Welshmen independently find America ? Well, then you get two continents for the price of one.


25 Nov 02 - 08:44 AM (#834464)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Mr Happy

snogs- should i b expecting a hit man at my session?


25 Nov 02 - 08:48 AM (#834468)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Stu

To begin at the beginning . . .


25 Nov 02 - 05:32 PM (#834837)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Bert

Hey Sian, re the "=" sign, I didn't know that Robert Record was Welsh.

They cared for thousands of English evacuees during WWII.


25 Nov 02 - 06:58 PM (#834916)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gareth

Bugger ! I forgot the Merthyr rising. And yes Hugill was a sailing instructor at an outeward bound school. On that theme I hasten to mentiuon the Royal National Lifeboat Institution's "Atlantic" Class RIB Inshore rescue boat. Desingned and prototype built at Atlantic College, in the Vale of Glamorgan

And with regard to America - well Click 'Ere Sian, Shame on you, forgetting this thread.

Oh, Yes, and the USA built Hospitals in South Wales, parts of the Caerphilly Miners Hospital are still housed in the brick built wards the US of A errected. And yes many Kids fron London and the Medway Towns were evacuated to South Wales 1939/40.

Hmmmn! Now there's a thought - Is there, should there, be a folk son about the evacuee's. Something for another thread I think.

Gareth

Gareth


25 Nov 02 - 08:19 PM (#834978)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: CET

Sian:

Wasn't T.E. Lawrence Irish?

Edmund


25 Nov 02 - 09:04 PM (#835004)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Crane Driver

Michael Hesseltine is from Swansea, Michael Howard is from Llanelli and Neil Hamilton is from Ammanford. So we can claim the downfall of the last Conservative government as a Welsh achievement, even if the replacement is a debateable improvement.

Andrew


26 Nov 02 - 08:04 AM (#835309)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Milead

Henry V?

Geoffrey of Monmouth; without him, King Arthur would only be a rude dirty hairy British chieftain.


27 Nov 02 - 02:07 PM (#835867)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Skipper Jack

Didn't Henry 1V bring his armies from Wales to fight Richard 111 and wasn't it the Battle of Bosworth Field that Dick 111 lost his horse and his crown? Thus, the Tudor dynasty began.
Or have I got it all wrong?


27 Nov 02 - 02:21 PM (#835881)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gareth

Skipper !

Henry V (Monmouth Hal') born in Monmouth Castle - Welsh speaking, freed the South Welsh from the Tyrany of Glendwr, and his french allies.

Henry VII ( Henry Tudwr )landed in Wales, raised local forces in South and Central Wales, and yes ended the wars of the Roses at Bosworth Field.

Gareth


27 Nov 02 - 03:37 PM (#835933)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: sian, west wales

TE Lawrence was born in Tremadog. Another Monmouth lad was Rolls, as in Rolls Royce (saw the statue to him and another to Henry V on the town square yesterday). Re "=", I am happy to say that I can't give you chapter and verse, not being a maths nerd, but there's a plaque up to whoever it is in Tenby. I'll see if I can find out more.

sian


27 Nov 02 - 04:14 PM (#835955)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Blushing at the memory of it

What have the Welsh ever done for us?! Well, speaking only for myself, provided the setting for one of the wildest, most passionate nights of my life. It was many years ago and we were so in love. Turns out we were only in lust and eventually parted. Can't remember what he looks like but I can still remember the night. Sigh


27 Nov 02 - 07:37 PM (#836079)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Bill

I think you'll find that Rolf Harris was originally Welsh.
Bill (the sound)


28 Nov 02 - 09:06 AM (#836446)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Skipper Jack

Thank you Gareth!

It seems that I've got my Henry's mixed up. Of course it was Henry V11.

Skipper.


28 Nov 02 - 09:58 AM (#836476)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: sian, west wales

Bert ...

Robert Recorde
Born: 1510 in Tenby, Wales
Died: 1558 in London, England

"Recorde virtually established the English school of mathematics and first introduced algebra into England. Recorde is best known for inventing the 'equals' symbol which appears in his book The Whetstone of Witte (1557)."

And while looking for that, I was reminded that the artists, Gwen and August John were also born in Tenby.

sian


28 Nov 02 - 05:34 PM (#836730)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Guest

Speaking as a Goucestershire man born and bred

Free passage back across the bridge to get back to civilisation as fast as possible!

Only joking


28 Nov 02 - 05:53 PM (#836735)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Llanfair

"Do not go gentle into that goodnight,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light"
From memory, so probably wrong, but don't forget the poet.
Oh yes, and my Quaker ancestors who colonised Pennsylvania!!!

Cheers, Bron.


28 Nov 02 - 06:47 PM (#836766)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gareth

Ahhh! - GUEST, Guest

Gloucester born and Gloucester bred,
Thick in the Arm and thick in the head !


Note, on the Severn Bridges they charge you to enter Wales. Personally if I have the time to spare I deviate via Gloucester then frighten the sheep through the "Forrest". Yup !, window down and shout "Mint Sauce ! Mint Sauce !" or possibly "Welly Boots !"

And talking about deviation remember - "Wales, where men are men, and sheep are frightened."

Gareth - just lowering the tone.


28 Nov 02 - 07:09 PM (#836771)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Penny S.

Times change - only a little while back, and in the school holidays in England, the whole island would tilt to the west as the teachers went home to the valleys, and then back again as term began. Where are the brilliant Welsh teachers who were in every school when I started my career - or their replacements? And not Welsh myself, I owe that career to the local Taffia in my town, who decided I needed support, and got me started securely after a bad beginning - the vicar, the Education Officer and the Headteacher. I owe them.

Penny


28 Nov 02 - 08:08 PM (#836803)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gurney

Not many folkies mentioned... John James. Dave Bennett. Wish I could play the guitar like them.


29 Nov 02 - 08:41 AM (#837056)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Bullfrog Jones

The Holy Trinity --- Gareth Edwards, Phil Bennett and JPR Williams.

BJ


29 Nov 02 - 09:00 AM (#837076)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: HuwG

Penny S, be careful about mentioning the Taffia too loudly, you might wake up to find a sheep's head in your bed ... and would the court ever believe that excuse ?

The term "Taffia" has on occasion been used to describe the galaxy of acting talent from Port Talbot and nearby (Hopkins from Aberavon, Burton from Pontrhydyfen etc.), or the political figures of widely differing party affiliations but very similar interests, also from the same area (Geoffrey Howe, Clive Jenkins etc.)

It has also been widely used to describe the way in which some local authorities, or other bodies with minor tin-god powers, were allegedly sewn up by local petty oligarchs or families (bear it in mind that in some parts of the Principality, you suspect corruption when the man that gets the contract is NOT related to someone on the committee ...)



Some other Welsh worthies:

Giraldus Cambrensis (Gerald of Wales), twelfth-century chronicler and also made several attempts to make the Bishopric of St. David a metropolitan see, independent of Cambridge;

Major-General Sir Thomas Picton, one of Wellington's best officers, killed at Waterloo (he may not have been Welsh himself, but had large estates in Carmarthenshire, and the family name "Picton" is still quite common there and in Cardiganshire);

Man (anybody remember that pop group from the late seventies ?)

Gren (cartoonist for the South Wales echo, some of his images have travelled world-wide);

Incredibly, I haven't seen Dylan Thomas mentioned in this thread yet.


From the kitchens:
Bara Brith (like a currant loaf, but before you bake it, you soak the dough in cold tea overnight);
Laver Break (yes, when Snowdon erupts, we gather it in buckets)


Some other BTW's:

When Henry Tudor landed in Milford Sound in 1485, Richard III's chief lieutenant in Wales was Rhys ap Thomas. He quickly changed sides and supported Henry. There is a story that he had sworn an oath that Henry would enter Wales only across his belly (this allows a bit more latitude than, "over my dead body"). When the time came to switch sides, it was suggested that Rhys lie down and Henry step over him, but this was turned down as being too undignified. Eventually, Rhys stood under a bridge, while Henry walked or rode across it.

A figure from the Anglo-American War of 1812 was the US Brigadier-General Morgan Lewis. He was permanently a staff-officer or second-in-command to someone else, so didn't have a chance to shine. The only link I can find for him, here suggests that his parents were both native New Yorkers; but surely he could not have been Christened with so Welsh a set of names by chance ? Any US 'Catters know any more ?


29 Nov 02 - 09:26 AM (#837097)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Bullfrog Jones

Huw -- Laver Break? Have that for breadfast do you, butty? BTW Bron mentioned Dylan Thomas, but not his name.

BJ


29 Nov 02 - 04:37 PM (#837387)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Llanfair

Well I didn't mention him by NAME, HuwG, but In didn't think I had to!!!
The other great poet, Taliesin, is supposed to have originated from here, and I use the term "originated" loosely. You'll know what I mean if you know the tale of the witch Ceridwen and Gwyn from Llanfair.
Cheers, Bron.


30 Nov 02 - 11:34 AM (#837730)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Crane Driver

And yes, Elvis is a Welsh name. The parish of St Elvis is near Solva, in Pembrokeshire. It's the smallest parish in Britain. St David was apparently baptised by St Elvis, so he's not been dead for longer than you think ...

Andrew


30 Nov 02 - 04:00 PM (#837857)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Skipper Jack

Author & playright Gwyn Thomas said that the Welsh Mountains are so steep that even the sheep have to change gear!


30 Nov 02 - 04:53 PM (#837881)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gareth

If Wales was flattened out, it would be bigger than England !

Gareth


30 Nov 02 - 07:15 PM (#838003)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST

But . . . no-one's mentioned Shadwell!


30 Nov 02 - 07:27 PM (#838012)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Gray D

Wait a minute . . . why am I a 'GUEST' now?

Have I missed something whilst I've been away?


01 Dec 02 - 06:14 PM (#838485)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Bill

Note -you have to pay to come into Wales on the Severn Bridges.
That's because the English(or French now) don't trust the Welsh with the money.
Bill (the sound)


01 Dec 02 - 06:34 PM (#838499)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gareth

"And let the daughters of Rebbecca rise and destroy the gates".

Time that old tradition was revived at the Severn Bridges.

Which reminds me - What did the women of Camarthen do that the Zulu's failed to do at Roukes Drift

Answer Put the 24th of Foot to flight.

Historical Note - The 24th of Foot - South Wales Boarderes were sent into Camarthen to supress the "Rebbecca Riots" - An attempt to destroy the plethoria of tollgates around the town. For the best of reasons Ball Amunition was not issued, and the 24th were driven out by the jeers and stones of the Women of Camarthen.

Gareth


02 Dec 02 - 12:47 AM (#838655)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Dave Williams, USA

Dafydd ap Gwylim, 14th C poet - ranks right up there with Chaucer.

The Cymanfa Ganu

Hywl

Welsh cakes (Picau ar y Maen)

Tens of thousands of miles of steel rails used to build railroads all over the world.


02 Dec 02 - 04:37 AM (#838709)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Bullfrog Jones

Specifically, Dave, my Auntie Mildred's Welsh Cakes! And Gareth, any fule kno it was Ivor Emmanuel who beat the Zulus at Rorke's Drift!

BJ


02 Dec 02 - 05:41 AM (#838734)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: songs2play

Famous Welsh - Website

Sir Geraint Evans

Shirley Bassey

Charlotte Church

Mary Hopkin

Tom Jones

Stereophonics

Andy Fairweather Low

Cerys Matthews

Shakin Stevens

Bonnie Tyler

'H' From Steps (NO - forget that one)


Cymru am byth


02 Dec 02 - 05:48 AM (#838738)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Stu

Undermilk Wood. The greatest play ever written (in my opinion - I haven't read them all).

And my mum.

Diolch.


02 Dec 02 - 06:21 AM (#838744)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Nigel Parsons

Isn't it clever the English are ? They build a bridge into our country and charge to cross it. But they put the tollgates on our side, look you!


02 Dec 02 - 02:59 PM (#839032)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Skipper Jack

Let's get up to date with what the Welsh have ever done for us!

Well we Welsh boys have given you Rowan Williams!

No, he's not a rugby player and he's not a footballer in the Welsh International side. He's not a snooker player nor yet an M.P. or an up and coming actor or singer!

He is of course the new Archbishop of Canterbury.


02 Dec 02 - 04:01 PM (#839073)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gareth

Remember Skipper Jack - his phone bill will go up. After all from Llandaff to Heaven is only a local call.

Gareth


02 Dec 02 - 05:22 PM (#839122)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Crane Driver

Of COURSE you've got to pay to get into Wales. That's supply and demand. Getting into England is free. Otherwise, who'd bother?

BTW, Wossname Carey, the PREVIOUS Arch-thing of Canterbury, is retiring to Wales (Llanrhidian, on Gower, about 5 minutes from our folk club). We're thinking of inviting him round - I've heard he likes a bit of a sing-song on a Sunday night. Or perhaps he needs those cheap phone calls now he's a pensioner ...

Andrew


03 Dec 02 - 02:44 PM (#839812)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Skipper Jack

True, Gareth true!

Rowan will have to watch himself in Canterbury. They're renowned for slaying archbishops there!! Mind you that was quite a few years ago now!!


03 Dec 02 - 08:44 PM (#839988)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST

Merthyr West End Bowling Club


03 Dec 02 - 08:49 PM (#839997)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST

St. Patrick


04 Dec 02 - 02:55 AM (#840163)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: songs2play

The Treorchy Male Voice Choir


04 Dec 02 - 05:29 AM (#840196)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Hugh Jamton

HughG Neil Kinnock! - the best PM we never had! Don't you remember his soubriquet "the Welsh Windbag" the pillock who made it possible to turn the Labour party from something Nye Bevan could be proud of into something Thatcher could feel at home in. On the other hand the Welsh have given us a rugby team that gives comfort to all the other 6 nation countries.


04 Dec 02 - 02:12 PM (#840618)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Better Late Than Not

1. Didn't anybody mention the greatest American architect, that huckster/genius, Frank Lloyd Wright? His home, Taliesen, in Wisconsin is rotting, but other Wright homes, such as the magnificent Falling Waters, are being restored. We need to overlook a few dozen character flaws, but who's perfect? When you come to Chicago, take the tour of his homes in Oak Park, and if you have time, go to Spring Green, Wisconsin.

2. What do you folks in Cymru think about Daffyd Iwan as a folk singer? Is he the Tom Paxton/Woody Guthrie of Wales, or what? Are his songs sung by the "folk" yng Nghymru?

Chris yn Chicago


04 Dec 02 - 03:13 PM (#840674)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,?

Who the hell is Daft Iwan. So long Frank LLoyd Wright. Lloyd George's daughter once kissed me but I was too young for it to turn me on. The Welsh are a great crowd to be in a bar with when they've lost a match


04 Dec 02 - 03:34 PM (#840691)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Twickers

Wear red shirts and give us a laugh. What's the point of the saucepan song?


04 Dec 02 - 03:43 PM (#840704)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Cluin

"Rough bands of sinewy men roaming the countryside, terrifying people with their close harmony singing."

---from Blackadder.

Also, from the same:

"You need a half-pint of phlegm in your throat just to pronounce the place-names. Never ask for directions in Wales... You'll be washing spit out of your hair for a fortnight!"


;)


04 Dec 02 - 04:16 PM (#840737)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Bert

Thanks Sian.

...a folk song about the evacuee's... Now that would be one SAD song Gareth.

Perhaps a parody of The John B - "I wanna go ho-ome!"


04 Dec 02 - 04:50 PM (#840765)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Gareth

Oh I don't know Bert, we still get aged Londoners, and Kentish People wandering in to see, and remind themselves where they spent part of their childhood.

Gareth


05 Dec 02 - 04:44 AM (#841175)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Nigel Parsons

Heard on Radio 2 yesterday (whether jokingly or not) BBC are planning a spin-off from the soap 'Eastenders' showing 'Dot Cotton' as a wartime evacuee to the Welsh valleys.

Nigel


05 Dec 02 - 05:59 AM (#841210)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: sian, west wales

I see we mentioned Shirley Bassey, but not Iris Williams.

We also provided the scenery for a number of films, including Inn of the Sixth Happiness.

Didn't we provide the practice reservoirs for the Dambusters mission?

Re: Dafydd Iwan, I can't think which American singer he might parallel. He started out doing Welsh versions of Guthry, and a lot of the Burl Ives repetoir. I don't like comparing anyone with Seeger, but DI's songs have developed along the sames lines: some highly political, some on global issues, some just 'comfortable', some trad. etc. And, yes, his songs are very much sung by the Welsh-speaking 'folk' of Wales.

sian


05 Dec 02 - 08:04 AM (#841250)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: Bullfrog Jones

Portmeirion! Clough Williams Ellis's joyous, crazy fantasy village (home to The Prisoner TV series). If you haven't been -- go!

BJ


05 Dec 02 - 08:07 AM (#841251)
Subject: RE: BS: What have the Welsh ever done for us ?
From: breezy

organised th snorbens folk club