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BS: Scottish National Anthem

23 Jan 01 - 06:52 AM (#380306)
Subject: Scottish National Anthem
From: Mikey joe

We had an early Burns night in Dundee last night where only Burns songs were sung. One of the topics that arose was if you could pick from all currently available material what would you choose for the national anthem or are you happy enough with Flower Of Scotland? It can be by anyone from any time.

Just wonderin'

Mj


23 Jan 01 - 06:55 AM (#380308)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: alison

slight thread creep........ I like flower of Scotland.... but what are the 2 words they yell after "that stood against him"???

slainte

alison


23 Jan 01 - 07:01 AM (#380312)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Wolfgang

'proud Edward's' are the two words.

Wolfgang


23 Jan 01 - 07:02 AM (#380313)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Mikey joe

In the official version it's proud edwards army. I'm sure you can guess what they think of proud edward in the unofficial version. If you cant it's spelt like walkers but one of the letters is changed. It's all the same to me I'm irish. As I said I'm just curious.

Mj


23 Jan 01 - 07:06 AM (#380315)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Clinton Hammond

I think aliso means when us loonies shout "AGAINST WHO!"... a-la

"And stood against him
AGAINST WHO
Proud Edwards army..."

Yes?

And myself, I always prefered Parcel of Rogues... takes more skill to sing... Unless you do Flower like my band does, in a minor key... A much more interesting song that way...

;-)


23 Jan 01 - 07:17 AM (#380323)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Mikey joe

Yes sorry I was running ahead of myself. Parcel of Rogues is a good choice. I reckon Burns would score highly in choices for national anthems


23 Jan 01 - 07:20 AM (#380324)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: alison

yep that's what I meant Clinton... great now I can yell along..... hahaha

Parcel of rogues is a great song too.....

slainte

alison


23 Jan 01 - 08:22 AM (#380370)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Mikey joe

Any other contenders for national anthem. There's a lot to consider when choosing. Content obviously (and you don't need to be anti anyone to be nationalistic as was wisely pointed out last night) but also tune I think it should have something that puts fire in your belly.


23 Jan 01 - 08:25 AM (#380371)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Clinton Hammond

Calidonia, by Dougie Mclean is probably my 2nd choice...

;-)


23 Jan 01 - 08:26 AM (#380373)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: GUEST,shankmac

Hamish Henderson's Freedom Come All Ye is my nomination but it does not have an easy lyric or hook.


23 Jan 01 - 08:31 AM (#380377)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Seany

The Scottish National Anthem should be Wild Mountain Thyme. Everyone likes this song and it has no contraversial parts.

There is some contention over lyrics though - 'purple heather' or 'bloomin' heather', 'I would surely find another' or 'I would surely find no other' (big difference)

If I was to pick a Burns song I would go for Green Grow the Rashes (rushes) O.

Scotland - Land of the lousy weather (you should try living in Wales ! )

Och aye.


23 Jan 01 - 08:33 AM (#380378)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Snuffy

No takers for 'Scotland the Brave'?


23 Jan 01 - 08:38 AM (#380383)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Mary in Kentucky

I always loved A Man's a Man For a That...but frankly, don't understand half the lyrics. It just sounds like it's saying something really assertive.


23 Jan 01 - 08:38 AM (#380385)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: pict

Scots wha hae.


23 Jan 01 - 08:40 AM (#380387)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Mikey joe

A lot of people call Michael Marras 'Hermless' Scotlands secret national anthem. Anyone fancy that?


23 Jan 01 - 09:12 AM (#380412)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Seany

Tatties and Herrin'

because of the verse,

When the Queens wantin' men For tae fecht wi' her foes It's nae to the roast beef devourers she goes But awa' to the North To the brave and the darin' To the lads that were brocht up on tatties and herrin'

- the 'roast beef devourers' are the English.


23 Jan 01 - 09:57 AM (#380435)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: zander (inactive)

To answer ClintonHammond, the English is against who. Fine song that it is, it is anti English so should not be used as a National Anthem. Many years ago Dick Gaughan proposed that it should be The Freedom Come All Ye, by Hamish Henderson. This is a positive song about peace and freedom for EVERYBODY. It is the ONLY choice for Scotlands national song. Peace to all, Dave


23 Jan 01 - 10:06 AM (#380439)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Mikey joe

Right we're staring to get places. At #1 so far it seems to be Freedom Come All Ye


23 Jan 01 - 12:41 PM (#380540)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland

To Zander

I don't know where you get the idea that Flower of Scotland is Anti-English, because it's not. In the last verse the words are THOSE DAYS ARE GONE NOW AND IN THE PAST THE MUST REMAIN BUT WE CAN STILL RISE NOW AND BE THE NATION AGAIN.

What that verse means that the days of hating the English is in the past, and that's where they should remain, however if all the people in Scotland rise up against Westminster, we might be free again.

It's like these people who think that the S.N.P. is an anti-english party, they're not as a matter of fact we welcome anyone into our party with their English or not.

Unlike some other parties in Britain.

So as I say I can't see how Flower of Scotland is anti-English, it's anti Westminster.

I think that the national anthem for Scotland should either The red Flag or Bandiera rossa.

Or even the Internationale.


23 Jan 01 - 12:47 PM (#380544)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Clinton Hammond

Bbiter... I think maybe you better re-read a few of the early posts... that wasn't my question... it was me who answered it...

I do like your reading of the song though... anything to take the hatred out eh...

;-)


23 Jan 01 - 01:19 PM (#380563)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: widowmaker

hi what about the "PROCLAIMERS" CAP IN HAND "We boast then we cower we beg for a piece of what's already ours"

Great Race pity they went belly up!


23 Jan 01 - 01:19 PM (#380566)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland

That's just typical of me, I jump in with both feet. I know that I should have read the earler ones.

Thanks for reminding me.

If we can't get any of those songs as our National anthem. then I think that a song like we'll have a May day then by Matt McGinn or else The Red Yo yo.

Mind you, you never know what could happen.

can you?


23 Jan 01 - 05:43 PM (#380782)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Linda Kelly

What about the theme tune to ,'Thunderbirds '-very stirring, and someone could then write the words that they really want.

I'm in favour of replacing all national anthems with up to date tune -say the english anthem with the tune from the 'Shake and Vac advert'

If fact why not get rid of words altogether and we could all HUM at national events-that way no-one could upset anyone else byy referring to old wounds/grievances battles and politics that everyone tries to forget anyway!

Being anti-royalist i cannot remember the last time I sang God save the Queen since the words would probably stick in my throat.


23 Jan 01 - 05:57 PM (#380796)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Dunc

'Hermless' by Dundee's Michael Marra gets my vote.


23 Jan 01 - 06:11 PM (#380805)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Matt_R

Oh I can't oondastand why you let soomoone else rule yer land...cap in haaaaand!

Dang I love that song!

I really like Loch Lomond, the way Runrig did it live.

Why didn't anyone mention "Land Of Light" by Billy Jackson?? I love his music. The words are kinda flaky though...and I can't stand Mairi McInnes' voice. It makes me sick. But as an instrumental anthem, it's awesome.


23 Jan 01 - 06:55 PM (#380854)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Snuffy

Wasn't it Billy Connolly who suggested that the English National Anthem should be the tune for 'The Archers' and the words 'Dum-de dum-de dum-de dum, dum-de dum-de da-da". That way everyone knows the tune and no one can take objection to the sentiments expressed.

Any Scots radio/TV sig tunes you could use this approach with? Dr Finlay's Casebook, Rab C Nesbitt, Taggart?


24 Jan 01 - 12:41 AM (#381010)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Jimmy C

I may be wrong but I believe that "Flower of Scotland" is only the unofficial national anthem of Scotland. I think " Scots Whae Hae " is the official one. My apologies if I am wrong. My own choice (if the scots really need a new one) would be "Lochnagar"

slan.


24 Jan 01 - 01:51 AM (#381034)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: john c

Am I alone in thinking that Flower of Scotland is a load of absolute tosh? "wee bit hill and glen" ......pure kitsch. Roy Williamson wrote a lot of much better stuff (listen to Hills of Ardmorn) and I think even he was embarrased by the songs success. And, as for Caledonia - Ive always seen that as a poor rip-off of Robin Williamsons October Song - and nothing like as good.
My vote also goes for The Freedom Come All Ye. Great tune and great words.
Hoots,
John


24 Jan 01 - 03:56 AM (#381061)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: GUEST,JTT

Wild Mountain Thyme is actually an Irish song - but if ye want to come in with us and join the Irish Republic, please feel free ;)

The day after the vote on Scottish home rule, a plump marketing man in a suit was visiting my company. He seemed tired but elated - he'd driven all the way through Ireland to get the ferry, then all the way across Scotland to vote for freedom, and driven all the way back, whistling The Flower of Scotland all the while.

Incidentally, Clinton, shouldn't that be "AGAINST WHOM"?


24 Jan 01 - 04:34 AM (#381076)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Mikey joe

I'm not sure what the story is on the official-ness (??) of Flower Of Scotland. I know that the GAA liberal broadminded organisation that they are wouldn't accord Scotland the courtesy of flying theeir flag or playing their anthem at Croke Park last October. Despite doing so for the Aussies 90 minutes later. They didn't think it would be ok to fly the Union Jack and Play God Save The Queen in "the greatest stadium in the world" (Their words not mine. Sorry, basically my question is : What is the offical stance on Scotlands National anthem? GSTQ, FOS or something else??

Mj


24 Jan 01 - 05:27 AM (#381083)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Calach

WHAT US PASSIONATE PEOPLE SHOUT AT THE POINT.... "and stood against him" is "WHO'S THAT?!!"... proud Edward's army"
GET IT RIGHT GUYS!!!!


24 Jan 01 - 07:00 AM (#381108)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: GUEST,bagpuss

Donald where's your troosers? gets my vote ;-)

Sunshine on Leith by the Proclaimers is great and I love Caledonia (Dougie MacLean) too.

KT


24 Jan 01 - 07:25 AM (#381122)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: JulieF

If I was being totally cynical I would suggest Brian McNeill's -'No Gods and Precious Few heros' which berates part of the nation about living in the past. I think with anthems you have to be either stirring or wistful - I would tend towards the wistful but perhaps we could have something specially written with the emphasis that it had to sould really, really good played on a solo bagpipe in the distance.

Julie


24 Jan 01 - 07:39 AM (#381127)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Mikey joe

Cracking song, Julie F, maybe a bit harsh for a national anthem though.


24 Jan 01 - 07:45 AM (#381130)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Jock Morris

How about 'Right to be free' written by Lionel McClelland of Blackeyed Biddy? Another anti-Westminster song.

"so for dignity, peace and for justice, let the deaf and the blind hear and see; and give England back to her people and Scotland the right to be free."

Scott


24 Jan 01 - 10:19 AM (#381231)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: English Jon

How about the skye boat song?


24 Jan 01 - 11:01 AM (#381274)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland

Scotland doesn't have home rule unlike The republic of Ireland.

We were given our own parliment, however we can't call it a government.

T


24 Jan 01 - 11:43 AM (#381298)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: GUEST,guestguestgeust(intruder)guest

why not "Parcel of Rogues"?


24 Jan 01 - 12:39 PM (#381349)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Clinton Hammond

Guest... ya... that's what I said... that way you actually ahve to ba able to sing, to sing it...

JohnC... I'm with ya on Flower... but tosh as you put it, has it's time and place too... And well, I can't say anything bad about Calidonia.. I love that song...

Calach... I've NEVER heard anyone shout "who's that" during flower... and I've spent a lot of time getting loaded with the scots contingent of Windsor... The party line here is that it's "Against Who"... Maybe it's a regional thing?

;-)


24 Jan 01 - 02:26 PM (#381451)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: GUEST,JTT

Home Rule is what Scotland has. The 19th-century plan for Home Rule for Ireland was exactly what Scotland has now - a devolved parliament, but rule from Westminster.

The plan for this was given an amendment by a little-known MP called, I think, Agar-Roberts, which provided that four of the Ulster counties - Derry, Armagh, Down and Antrim - be temporarily held out from this.

But Home Rule was shelved during World War I, while 60,000 Irishmen, including half of Redmond's Irish Volunteers, went to fight in the English armies against Germany.

Then the Rising happened in 1916; and when the Volunteers came home from the war in 1918 many brought their service rifles with them and joined in the War of Independence, which included not only the usual warlike things - killing people, bombing out premises, etc - but also making the country ungovernable: the population largely ignored the Westminster government, Sinn Fein collected county council rates, county councils refused to give up their books to the British authorities for inspection.

In the elections nationalist MPs swept in - but formed their own national parliament and refused to sit in the British parliament. Thousands were jailed, and were again elected from jail.

A truce was declared in 1921 and the treaty signed with Britain established the Irish Free State in 1922; the bulk of the fighters held out from this and there was a terrible civil war, which ended with many of the republicans leaving Ireland for America.

The Republic of Ireland was declared in 1949. This republic includes the 26 counties; Derry, Antrim, Down and Armagh, Fermanagh and Tyrone - six of the nine Ulster counties - remain outside the Republic. So Ireland doesn't now have Home Rule; Ireland is a sovereign republic.

But getting back to the Scots national anthem - if not (and why not?) The Flower of Scotland, what about Caledonia? Though it's a bit syrupy.


24 Jan 01 - 04:25 PM (#381520)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: GUEST,Domhnall

Donald wher's yer troosers would be a disaster. Those of us afflicted with the name Donald have a difficult enough time whenever that damned song gets back on the air.


24 Jan 01 - 09:52 PM (#381747)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Murray MacLeod

"Rambling Rover" by Andy M Stewart would get my vote.

Murray


25 Jan 01 - 07:30 AM (#381987)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: duart

As an exile from the old country for 30+ years, I'm glad the Scots got rid of "Scotland the Brave" (terrible to have to listen to at Burns' nights in Australia with over-arrogant professional"Scots" who had never been there ,never mind lived there;) so it was a relief to become aware that a lovely song by my all-time favourite folk-song duo had been adopted by first of all the rugby union guys and then gradually by almost everyone as the 'National Anthem'. But I do agree with those who have voted for "Freedom Come All Ye" by Hamish Henderson, its lyrics are truly wonderful, promoting freedom, anti-racism,socialism and brother- and sister-hood for all humans the world over. The song's main drawback, as I see it , is that the lyrics are in Lallans or Old Scots, and even most people living in Scotland today would almost need a glossary to understand them, let alone the rest of the English - speaking world! If for only this reason I think we have to stick with "Flower". Hope this is taken in a positive sense.


25 Jan 01 - 09:29 AM (#382075)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Garry Gillard

My 2d worth. "Flower of Scotland" is a very ordinary tune, with ordinary words. (Cf. La Marseillaise.) The Corries were a one-tune wonder.

Disclaimer: I claim to be a Robertson.

Garry


25 Jan 01 - 10:19 AM (#382120)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland

I don't think that The Corries were a one tune wonder as you say.

How many folk groups that going now have one of their songs as an unoffical national anthem, not many .

I think that the national anthem for Scotland should be kissing english talking blues.


25 Jan 01 - 11:47 AM (#382221)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Jimmy C

I agree with Busbitter, the Corries were a great and very talented group. They have been one of my favourites since they were a quartet and went by the name of the " Corrie Folk Trio and Patty Bell". However Scotland already has an Anthem and does not need a new one.

Who decides thes things anyway ?.


25 Jan 01 - 08:22 PM (#382698)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: little john cameron

We hae never had an OFFICIAL national anthem.God save the Queen has been used up tae noo.The search has been on for a while tae adopt ane for Scotland.Here's a bit aboot it.
http://www.braveheart.co.uk/macbrave/culture/music/anthem.htm


25 Jan 01 - 08:40 PM (#382714)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: little john cameron

Here's ane tae keep awbody happy.
Flower of Scotland the Brave

This fickle comatose land awoke on
The glorious twelfth September
Liberated fae past anxiety
Toffs, midyins 'n' common folks had spoke
We wir maybe a nation again
Or a semiautonomous territorial entity
It was a once in many lifetimes
Generations ae souls fae glens had flown
'tween parcel o' rogues and this brand new dawn
(chorus)
Now's the day and now's the hour How sweet, a clear day's dawin
Flower of Scotland the Brave
Fur oorsels at last , fur auld lang syne
Let me tell you that I love you
Flower of Scotland the Brave
I've tidied ma room and cam down fir ma tea
And I'll be in Scotland afore ye
Flower of Scotland the Brave
Some cannot speak may they only sing
Let their voices through the confusion ring
An anthem for oor precious hame
With awfy many from which tae choose
Thir's auld lang syne 'n' a that frae oor Rabbie
Or Amazing Grace or somethin no sae auld
Caledonia, Hermless, Scotland Yet,
Freedom Come All Ye
God save us from God Save the Queen

Oan that perhaps we cin aw agree .... Maybe (x3)

Hark the Herald anthems sing
For another tae the quandary bring
The cream o' the craft o' many a would be muse
Ancient and strong wi' a brand new tune
Maks the hairs on yer arms point tae the moon
So sing it loud like there's nothin' left tae lose
And when Lizzie cuts our ribbon a' these new songs mean
Mair than twa hundred reasons why the band
Disnae have tae play God Save the Queen

(chorus ........ and into Auld Lang Syne)

.... ?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot And days o auld lang syne
Should auld acquaintance be forgot And never brought to mind
For auld lang syne ma dear For auld lang syne
We'll tak a cup o kindness yet For auld lang syne
Whit dae ye think o that then?Haud on,ah forgot wha wrote it an iy's copyricht so ah'll nip back an get the name. ljc

)


25 Jan 01 - 08:44 PM (#382715)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: little john cameron

There's nae name there bit the site is restalrig. ljc


29 Jan 01 - 01:16 PM (#384933)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland

How can it be Home rule in Scotland or elsewhere for that matter, if another country is still ruling us or any other countrty.

Home rule means the people of that country is ruled by the parliment of that country and not a foreigen one.

So explain that.

Scotland is still being ruled by Westminster and so that can't be home rule.

If Edinburgh is being ruled by London.

Home rule for Scotland should be Edinburgh should rule Scotland and not London, ENGLAND.


29 Jan 01 - 03:51 PM (#385052)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: GUEST,jacky

I thought it was "God save our gracious Queen"


29 Jan 01 - 07:10 PM (#385239)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Snuffy

What you are calling Home Rule is really Independence. Home Rule is usually meant to be a halfway house between rule from the centre and full independence.

Under Home Rule a Scottish Parliament would decide on things that concern just Scotland like education, transport, etc while Westminster would decide things that concern the whole of Britain like defence and foreign policy.

That sort of Home Rule is what the Irish were looking for in the late 19th/early 20th century, and it's what Scotland and Wales have got now - a limited ability to run your own affairs while remaining part of the Union. Not independence, and not total submission to Westminster.

You don't have to like Home Rule (or devolution or whatever else you want to call it), but it's not the same as independence


29 Jan 01 - 07:15 PM (#385241)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: GUEST,A GEORDIE

Yes it is "God save our the Queen" Its a bit pathetic singing anti-English songs after god knows how many hundred years. Aren't anti-English national anthems a sign of a nation that has nothing else to sing about?


29 Jan 01 - 11:20 PM (#385374)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: GUEST,joanne

I dunno really,what wiv all my modelling going on,how about " Hoots mon,theres a moose,loose,abooot this hooooouse".That always gets me going.


30 Jan 01 - 02:29 AM (#385473)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Tony in Sweden

Hoo's aboot,
"If it's a braw bricht moonlichtnicht the nicht, yer awricht ye ken"
T.C.


30 Jan 01 - 07:00 AM (#385542)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Mikey joe

Geordie

A lot of Scots don't recognise the monarchy as being relevant at all to them though they may visit Balmorral now and then. Scots as a people are entitled to a national anthem. This thread however is not about anti english songs. It is about being proud to be Scottish and portraying that through a national anthem. And as I said earlier, you do NOT have to be anti anyone to be nationalistic. And IMHO nations who have an awful lot to sing about still do sing anti insert any nationality you want. Some things should not be forgotten, as you would have seen if you watched the holocaust remeberance. Which was all of 50 years ago now.

Slán

Mj


30 Jan 01 - 08:27 AM (#385584)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Crazy Eddie

Well, we might lend you "The Fields Of Athenry" if you ask nicely.
But perhaps not ALL Scots would be in favour of that :o)
Eddierunningforcoverwhilestillgrinning....


30 Jan 01 - 09:18 AM (#385614)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: Tony in Sweden

Hi eddie,
I was over in Glasgow in November to take in a football match,at "PARADISE", and it seems that there are already 60,000 singing "The Fields Of Athenry" every week. But then again, the other side of the city want to keep "God Save the something-or-other".


30 Jan 01 - 01:57 PM (#385826)
Subject: RE: BS: Scottish National Anthem
From: TamthebamfraeScotland

I agree, And I don't like home Rule, what I want for Scotland is full independence.