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froggie went a courtin

08 Jun 00 - 01:33 AM (#239760)
Subject: froggie went a courtin
From: Annabelle

this is a great song, but for some reason the version i know has this verse toward the end that goes teemy time-o, in the land of nee-o pharoah, etc and if anyone has ever heard it like this, could they let me know if im imagining things or what the real words are . THANKS


08 Jun 00 - 01:45 AM (#239764)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Racer

Is this the song from the Tom and Jerry cartoon? I would love to know this song.

-Racer


08 Jun 00 - 01:54 AM (#239768)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Nathan in Texas

There's a site dedicated to the song at
http://www.concentric.net/~Highl14/froggy.html
It has over 150 verses collected from "over 25 sources". You might try looking there.


08 Jun 00 - 03:08 AM (#239780)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: catspaw49

I was about to say that we have an old thread or two around here that you can find by typing frog in the forum search box....They had a lot of verses but I doubt seriously if we approach the 150 mark!!!

Does the Harry Fox Agency know about this?

Spaw


08 Jun 00 - 04:06 AM (#239791)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Stewie

Nathan, thanks for the interesting link. However, it makes no mention of the wonderful 1928 'King Kong Kitchie Kitchie Ki-Me-O' by Chubby Parker from Kentucky which has been reissued on CD in the Harry Smith 'Anthology' and elsewhere. In a previous thread, Dale Rose gave the references to various versions cited in the notes to the 'Anthology' CD reissue.

Click Here

--Stewie.


08 Jun 00 - 08:56 AM (#239853)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: reggie miles

There is a great rendition of this song on a Tom and Jerry cartoon. The only version I've heard that compares is one I caught at a back yard party I played years ago. Our hostess requested it and joined in with a verse or two of her own and had the most amazing nonsense line I've ever heard. I finally after years of gentle prodding got her to send me a tape of her most unusual nonsense phrasing. I posted a related thread a while back trying to find confirmation of a word used to describe nonsense phrases. A book titled Conundrums calls nonsense words or phrases "crambo". In the Tom and Jerry version of this song the singer uses the word crambo at the end of each of his nonsense verses. Nathan, do they mention the T&J version at that site?


08 Jun 00 - 01:00 PM (#239945)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,Mrr

I have sing-song kitty kitcha kime-e-o by Ed McCurdy, is it thw same thing? There was a frog lived in the spring, he was so hoarse he could not sing? Not related to froggy-went-a-courting other than having a frog...


08 Jun 00 - 01:31 PM (#239957)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Sandy Paton

Doc Watson does a great Kemo-Kimo version. Another version can be heard sung by Lawrence Older, a former logger I recorded in the Adirondacks, on his Folk-Legacy recording, now available as a custom cassette with a booklet of notes on the songs. CLICK HERE and then scroll down to about the fourth or fifth listing. Lawrence was a very "listenable" traditional singer, played guitar, and sang with a pleasant voice and a great Adirondack accent.

Sandy


08 Jun 00 - 05:55 PM (#240070)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Sandy Paton

Stewie (and all of you): The Chubby Parker version is also available on Volume 1 of the wonderful new 2-volume CD set The Story That the Crow Told Me; Early American Rural Children's Songs from Yazoo (Shanachie). Nevins has done another truly outstanding job of gathering old records from the 20s and 30s and remastering them. These are GEMS!

I ought to mention that there is a nice "Frog Went a-Courtin'" by Anna and Julietta Canova on Volume 2. If you are into traditional folk music at all, and have kids (or grandkids) these two CDs are MUST HAVES! You can get 'em from Dick at Camsco, as I did, and Mudcat benefits, too.

Sandy (still a real folk enthusiast after all these years!)


08 Jun 00 - 07:11 PM (#240104)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Stewie

Hi Sandy, I agree that the 'Something the Crow' sets cannot be recommended too highly. If you like vintage Hawaiian, as I do, you will be pleased to know that the next couple of reissues (later this month) in the Yazoo 2000 series are a King Bennie Nawahi collection and a various artists Hawaiian steel collection.

--Stewie.


08 Jun 00 - 08:30 PM (#240142)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Annabelle

i dont understand what this kitchy kemo stuff is, but it may be related to the verse i know that is (phonetically_

teemy tim-o in the land of neo Pharoah said a rat trap peeny winkle timey doodle rattle buggy rat trap peenie winkle tie me oh

its great-but i have only heard it done this way with a family i know. tell me if you've heard of this or know anyhtin more about it


08 Jun 00 - 08:50 PM (#240150)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Sandy Paton

Doc Watson includes a "nip cat penny winkle" phrase in his "Kemo-Kimo" version, but I have never transcribed his exact refrain. My wife's mother, raised in Savannah, Georgia, sang a Kemo-Kimo version, but without the nip-cats. Don't underestimate the widespread influence of early recordings and radio in extending the area in which many songs have been found. These early 78 rpm recordings had a profound effect on the traditional methods of oral transmission.

Would it be possible for you, Annabelle, to write down the text of the entire song as your friends sing it, and post it to us here? I, for one, would love to see it, and so, I'm sure, would many others.

Sandy


08 Jun 00 - 09:14 PM (#240153)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,BANJO JOHNNY

Can't figure out what you folks are talking about. There is one that goes, Froggy went a-courtin and he did ride, hum hum, repeat, repeat, Sword and a pistol by his side, hum hum. Goes on as he wants to marry Miss Mousie, etc. Am I on the right wave length here?


08 Jun 00 - 09:29 PM (#240158)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST

Sara Grey does a wonderful version on her Waterbug record, with a refrain that says, "Hi, ho, linkum laddie." It's a long version with lots of wedding guest critters; the principals come to a bad end. Irene Saletan and Ellen Christenson (nee Kossoy sisters) and I sing the chorus harmonies. Joan Sprung


08 Jun 00 - 09:48 PM (#240167)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Joan

That was my post above. Just reset my cookie, which somebody seemed to have eaten. Not GUEST any more.


09 Jun 00 - 01:40 AM (#240242)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Mrrzy

Hi Banjo Johnny, yes, the original question was about that froggy going a-courting, but there seems to be a side-discussion going about a song with a refrain in my version (=what I hear Ed McCurdy singing which may or may not be what he sings) that goes Kemo Kimo where o where, mahee, mahigh, and in come Sally singing sing song pennywhistle ding tongue nippy cat sing song kitty kitcha kime-e-o. It's a nonsense song with puns, like in one verse "the fellows grow to beat 10 feet" and in the next they "Tried to sleep but it's no use ... their feet stick out for the hens to roost" and so on. I haven't done a digitrad search on it yet but from the tone of the above conversation I think it is in it.


09 Jun 00 - 01:43 AM (#240243)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Mrrzy

OK, I've looked it up, and while the version in there is obviously related to Ed's, Ed's is different enough that I'm going to do a Lyrics Add.


10 Jun 00 - 12:44 AM (#240679)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Annabelle

where can i find Doc watson's kemo-kimo version, i listened to a version today and it didnt have it. what almbum??


11 Jun 00 - 05:31 PM (#241176)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,David H

I try not to include any versions that might not be in the public domain.

Stewie wrote: Nathan, thanks for the interesting link. However, it makes no mention of the wonderful 1928 'King Kong Kitchie Kitchie Ki-Me-O' by Chubby Parker from Kentucky which has been reissued on CD in the Harry Smith 'Anthology' and elsewhere. In a previous thread, Dale Rose gave the references to various versions cited in the notes to the 'Anthology' CD reissue.


14 Jun 00 - 01:26 PM (#242367)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Hollowfox

You might want to look into Doug Elliott's book "Crawdads, Doodlebugs and Creasy Greens" (yes, that's "creasy" not "greasy"). He tells some of the history of the song (theories that it's about Queen Elizabeth I, etc). It's also on the companion tape "Crawdads, Doodlebugs and Greens". I got a copy at Old Songs festival, and I know it's available on Amazon.com.


14 Jun 00 - 03:14 PM (#242418)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,Mrr

Hmmm - I'll have to go through my Dad's records, currently chez one of my sisters, to get the album name. Anyone else?


14 Jun 00 - 03:18 PM (#242420)
Subject: Lyr Add: HERE'S TO CHESHIRE
From: GUEST,Doris, Guest

My sister had a different version which my kids liked, maybe because of the food references:

Frog went a-courtin' he did ride,
Ding, dang, dong went the wedding bells
Sword and buckler by his side,
Ding, Dang, Dong went the wedding bells

CHORUS: Here's to Cheshire. Here's to cheese
Here's to the pear and the apple trees
And here's to the love-e-ly stra-a-a-awberries
Ding, Dang, Dong went the wedding bells
etc.

The last verse (a signal that the singer was going to end it (if not end it all) was

There's bread and cheese upon the shelf
Ding, Dang, Dong went the wedding bells
If you want any more you can sing it for yourself
Ding, Dand, Dong went the wedding bells
Here's to Cheshire, etc.

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 24-Sep-02.


15 Jun 00 - 01:21 AM (#242699)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,Rollo

While I knew the texas folk song version (completely reduced to the core, as many texas folk songs are) from a book, I heard a wonderful irish(!) song that might be the origin... the melody seems totally different for the moment, far more splendid and with some strange harmonies, the lyrics have twisted and changed a lot, but - blast I don't know the correct english technical term, in germany it's "aufbau" - the structure how the elements of the song are arranged is the same. And the short refrain seems simply to have been eliminated by a musician with bad memory.

It starts with "a frog went out to woe a mouse..." and the nonsense-phrase seem to origin in the stanza "far o'er the hills and bogs rode he" which repeats in all verses allthough it doesn't fit with the verses' texts. the irish tradition of singing "whack-a de liddy" and things like that seem to have killed this stanza by and by.


21 Jun 00 - 12:44 AM (#245269)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,cati

I think this song is also on an old Burl Ives album.


21 Jun 00 - 01:55 AM (#245284)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST

Click for version of 1611


11 Sep 05 - 01:24 AM (#1560839)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,heatherford@clearworks.net

I might have the most off the wall version of this song yet! Someone let me know if you've ever heard of this version...

Froggie went a courtin' and he did ride, rinktum bottomage a cambo (phonetically), sword and buckler by his side, rinktum bottomage a cambo, combalero down the cairo, combalero cairo, strattalata bobolata bobolinktum, rinktum bottomage a cambo???

I haven't heard this version in about 11 years as my grandfather used to sing it to me and had a stroke that left him unable to talk. He recently passed and I became interested in this versions origin, if anyone can help.


11 Sep 05 - 10:07 AM (#1561018)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: alanabit

It is a perfect children's song. It has unnatural sex, disgusting food and a bloody finale. I did a performance of it, with kindergarten kids acting it out last summer. It was a scream.


11 Sep 05 - 10:53 AM (#1561036)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: EBarnacle

Thanks for the 1611 version. I had always thought it referred to Andy Jackson and his efforts.


11 Sep 05 - 11:58 AM (#1561077)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Le Scaramouche

They don't get as far as unnatural sex!


11 Sep 05 - 12:25 PM (#1561093)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

Sex is unnatural?


11 Sep 05 - 12:29 PM (#1561098)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Le Scaramouche

Alanabit's words and if between frog and mouse, then would say it is.


11 Sep 05 - 01:21 PM (#1561132)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Big Jim from Jackson

Walt Kelly, in one of his Pogo books printed a version, plus he drew the swamp critters trying to perform it, with zaney results. His version included a chorus that included something about "Rowley, Prowley, Gammon and spinich; Hiho, says Anthony Rowley." The Clancy Brothers with Tommy Makem have a recorded version of a very similar song with somewhat the same chorus. I think theirs is called "Frog In A Well." It may be on a Christmas album of theirs.


11 Sep 05 - 04:54 PM (#1561270)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Le Scaramouche

The Johnsons have a really fun one.


02 Dec 05 - 01:22 PM (#1618682)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST

Question for all out there. I remember a different version of this song but I have no idea where to find it for my son. I think it was "Peter Pan Paperbacks" and the book came with a record singing the song. "Foggie went a courtin' on a fine spring day, ah huh, ah huh". Any ideas?


02 Dec 05 - 09:06 PM (#1619021)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,Joe_F

Pete Seeger sang the "Here's to Cheshire" version (it's in _Rise Up Singing_) & is, I think, responsible for adding the final stanza

That was the end of him and her --

Won't be no tadpoles covered in fur.

--- Joe Fineman    joe_f@verizon.net

||: We console ourselves by giving good advice when we are too old to set a bad example. :||


03 Mar 06 - 10:11 PM (#1684745)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,jcaron@nycap.rr.com

The song, "Froggie Went A-Courtin', has just been recorded by Bruce Springsteen. It will be on his "Pete Seeger Sessions" album when it is released in mid-April 2006.

For more info, go to http://www.backstreets.com

--Jeff


04 Mar 06 - 09:22 AM (#1684985)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,J C

Best version I know was called 'The Frog's Wedding' sung by Annie Mackenzie of Boho, County Fermanagh in 1986.
It was included on the cassette 'Here Is A Health', issued by the Arts Council of Northern Ireland.


04 Mar 06 - 10:28 AM (#1685031)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,jim

My dad used to sing the verse attributed to Pete Seeger by Joe F. I'm sure he didn't get it from Pete,'cause I introduced him to Pete's music when I was a teenager, but I recall hearing him sing this tune when I was a toddler.

The last two verses were:
    They paddled off across the lake,
    Rolly polly gamin and finnigan,
    Paddled off across the lake
    And got swallowed up by a big black snake
    Hey ho said Anthony Rawley.

    Now that was the end of him and her,
    Rolly polly gamin and finnigan,
    That was the end of him and her,
    Now we won't have tadpoles covered in fur
    And hey ho said Anthony Rawley.


This popped into my mind when Le Scaramouche said,"They don't get as far as unnatural sex! "


04 Mar 06 - 11:21 AM (#1685055)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST

Has anybody heard the Bob Dylan version? He recorded it on an album several years ago named "Good As I Been To You".


04 Mar 06 - 11:24 AM (#1685056)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Big Jim from Jackson

Oops! My cookie crumbled! The comment about Dylan's recording was mine.


26 Mar 06 - 10:49 AM (#1703173)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,to

Im from Louisana and my uncle buzz busby sang it as a banjo tune like this: "froggy went a courtin he did ride, aw haw aw haw" "froggy went a courtin he did ride, aw haw aw haw" "froggy went a courtin he did ride, duelin pistols by his side" "froggy went a courtin he did ride, aw haw aw haw"
"He said miss mousy wont you marry me aw haw aw haw he said miss mousy wont you marry me aw haw aw haw. He said missy mousy wont you marry me and will go live under a big shade tree. Oh missy mousy wont you marry me aw haw aw haw"
It has a combo horse clippity clop rythum and banjo train rythum. I dont know if he every recorded it but it was popular with Grand Ole Opry banjo players in the 50's.


26 Mar 06 - 12:25 PM (#1703206)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Uncle_DaveO

Recently going through some of my ancient LPs, I found a related but different song, Chow Willy, which I "Lyr-Add"ed HERE
.

While I sing Froggie Went a-Courtin' regularly, (in pretty close to the version mentioned by GUEST 10:49, above), I'm happily adding this song to my repertoire. Take a look. Durn shame I don't have a way to submit the tune.

Dave Oesterreich


26 Apr 06 - 07:02 AM (#1727742)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,Anya

Tim Hart and friends recorded a wonderful version of this on their 1983 collection called "Drunken Salior and other kids songs". It has a really catchy tune and different lyrics to those on this site. I think this might be the version that a previous poster was asking about:

Question for all out there. I remember a different version of this song but I have no idea where to find it for my son. I think it was "Peter Pan Paperbacks" and the book came with a record singing the song. "Foggie went a courtin' on a fine spring day, ah huh, ah huh". Any ideas?


26 Apr 06 - 09:26 PM (#1728423)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,Joe_F

"Tell you what I'll do," his father said, "I'll sing you one song, and then you be a good boy and go on to sleep. Will you do that?" The child pressed his forehead upward against the strong warm hand and nodded.

"What'll we sing?" his father asked.

"Froggy would a wooin go," said the child; it was the longest.

"At's a long one," his father said, "at's a _long_ old song. You won't ever be awake that long, will you?"

He nodded.

"Ah _right_," said his father; and the child took a fresh hold on Jackie and settled back looking up at him. He sang very low and very quietly: Frog he would a wooin' go uh-hooooo! Frog he would a wooin' go uh-hooooo, uh-hoooooo, and all about the courting-clothes the frog wore, and about the difficulties and ultimate success of the courtship and what several of the neighbors said and who the preacher would be and what he said about the match, uhhoooo, and finally, what will the weddin supper be uhooooo, catfish balls and sassafras tea uh-hoooo, while he gazed at the wall and the child gazed up into his eyes which did not look at him and into the singing face in the dark. Every couple of verses or so the father glanced down, but the child's eyes were as darkly and steadfastly open at the end of the long song as at the beginning, though it was beginning to be an effort for him.

He was amused and pleased. Once he got started singing, he always loved to sing. There were ever so many of the old songs that he knew, which he liked best, and also some of the popular songs; and although he would have been embarrassed if he had been made conscious of it, he also enjoyed the sound of his own voice. "Ain't you asleep yet?" he said, but even the child felt there was no danger of his leaving, and shook his head quite frankly.

-- James Agee, _A Death in the Family_


27 Apr 06 - 10:10 AM (#1728759)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Uncle_DaveO

Fifty-some years ago, when I was a "new" folk-type singer with guitar, I'd go visit my brother and his family. (The "and his family" included what would in the end amount to ten kids.)

I had royal orders from the kids (however many there were at that point) to bring my guitar whenever I visited, and, my arm being easy to twist, I did so. And I'd sing to those kids (and sometimes to the adults too) for two and three hours at a time.

Now don't think I'm saying that it was all fresh songs for two and three hours running. The kids wanted certain songs over and over and over and over (etc., ad nauseam). Among those in-demand songs was our friend Froggie. It finally got to the point where I couldn't make myself sing Froggie any more, and it was that way for maybe forty years. Only of relatively recent times have I taken it back into my active repertoire, and I love it.

Incidentally, when on occasion I run into some of my brother's "kids", (who are now in their late 50s and early 60s, I guess), they'll talk about those old singing sessions, and it's always Froggie Went a-Courtin' that they remember fondly.

Dave Oesterreich


21 Jan 07 - 10:31 PM (#1943824)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: bubblyrat

Dear Banjo Johnny---YES !! That"s the version I know !! I think Burl Ives did it,among others. There is,of course, a British Naval song,which uses the "Froggy" tune,about a dying engineer who tells of how his wife can not be satisfied,& of the steam-powered machine he has built in order to solve this problem-----but we won"t go there !!!


22 Jan 07 - 03:52 AM (#1944003)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Mo the caller

Rowley polley gammon and spinach
Hey ho said Antony Rowley

Wasn't Old Rowley a nickname for an English king? One of the Charleses? Google is no help here, but give a Midland village of Rowley Regis.


22 Jan 07 - 04:30 AM (#1944016)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Scrump

Yes, Charles II was known as Old Rowley.

But I always thought it was simply "roly poly [pudding], gammon and spinach". I never knew who Anthony Rowley was, though.


22 Jan 07 - 05:18 AM (#1944043)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: RoyH (Burl)

I recommend versions of this song by Bascomb Lamar Lunsford, and the great Almeda Riddle.


21 Aug 08 - 12:02 PM (#2419498)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST, Os in Texas

Here's an update on the "Froggy Central" website with over a hundred verses and lots of historical info and variation on the chorus

It's at Froggy Central - Froggy Went a Courtin'

or a shortcut URL - Trak to Froggy Central

This is an update to the link provided early in this thread by "Nathan in Texas" Date: 08 Jun 00 - 01:54 AM

Os.


27 Mar 09 - 10:53 AM (#2598560)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: GUEST,ETS

Annabelle, I'm wondering if we learned this song listening to the same family. I learned this song that way with the chorus (as I heard it/remembered it) being

"Kemi kimo, in the land of pharoh pharoh, come a rat trap pennywinkle Tommydoodle rattlebugar rat trap kemi won't you ki-me-oh."


28 Nov 13 - 01:43 PM (#3579685)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Jim Carroll

Nicest version I've heard in a long time - from the cassette album, Here is a Health
Jim Carroll

There was a frog lived in a well
Fall aye linkum laddie
And a mouse that kept a mill
Tidy Ann, tidy Ann, ditherum di dum dandy

One day says the frog, I'm going to court
With my shoes as black as soot

The horse he rode was a big black snail
Saddle and bridle in under his tail

Frog rode up to the mouse's hole
Rapped the door stout and bold

Arrah missie mouse are you in?
Yes I am, I sit and spin

Arrah missie mouse will you wed?
Will you come into my bed?

Now uncle rat is not at home
Without his leave I'll marry none

Uncle rat he then came down
In his silk and muslin gown

Bring in the table til we dine
Change a farthing and bring in wine

Just as the talk was getting slack
In walked a kittling and a cat

Cat seized uncle by the crown
Kittling knocked wee mousie down

Horsey snail rode up the wall
Says the devil is among you all

Frog he then rode round the room
Just like any sporting groom

In came a flock of neighbour's ducks
Soon devoured the backelors up

Now this whole family went to rack
Between the kittling, ducks and cat

(From the singing of Annie McKenzie, Boho, Co. Fermanagh, recorded by Sean Corcoran)


28 Nov 13 - 02:24 PM (#3579690)
Subject: RE: froggie went a courtin
From: Jack Campin

The frog/mouse connection dates back to Aesop, though his fable goes in different directions. About a generation before Ravenscroft it had been adapted by Robert Henryson, who gave it an interpretation in terms of Orphic mysticism (the frog is the body, the mouse is the soul, and both are swallowed up while tied together in the river of life by a hawk signifying Death).

Ravenscroft's story ends badly for all concerned but in a different way from Aesop/Henryson, and doesn't make for such a simple allegory (having the soul and body swallowed up by different supernatural forces would be like Rudolf Steiner's myth of the Eighth Sphere). So maybe it's a parody? If so did Ravenscroft make it up, or was it circulating before his time, and if it was, what on earth was its intention? As a kind of contest of rival myths, it's a bit like the processes Robert Graves imagines in The White Goddess, where proto-Christian monotheists tell parodic reinterpretations of pagan traditions.