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BS: MARS in the Headlights

18 Feb 21 - 12:21 PM (#4093683)
Subject: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

Today 18FEB2021, in a few hours the NASA Perseverance lander is going to attempt a controlled arrival to a crater on Mars. It is scheduled just ahead of 4 PM East Coast Time, which I believe is 9 PM Greenwich (ZULU Time).

You may be a fan of space exploration. If so, visit NASA's web site for the project .

For lovers of the profit motive, there are also other promotions of the day for the calorie defiant.

Wikipedia's site is helpful in describing the history of Mars exploration.

And it's getting crowded:
There are other visitors to Mars from other countries. The UAE has recently achieved orbit over Mars.

China has an orbiting probe with a lander.

Aside from the Perseverance being the latest of several NASA efforts, it is the largest lander yet sent to a very difficult planet to land on. Aside from an almost Volkswagen sized rover, it is going to attempt a flying drone.


18 Feb 21 - 01:30 PM (#4093697)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

bloody stupid , they should be spending this money on defeating covid


18 Feb 21 - 01:52 PM (#4093699)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Raggytash

The benefits to the human race from space exploration are huge.

Everything from weather data to personal communications across a broad spectrum that includes, for example, water purification systems, cancer detection devices, heart pumps, fire resistant materials etc etc.


18 Feb 21 - 02:23 PM (#4093702)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

"...to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."

-Tennyson


18 Feb 21 - 02:26 PM (#4093705)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: WalkaboutsVerse

Robomatic sounding like M in Skyfall!


18 Feb 21 - 03:16 PM (#4093709)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

I couldn't agree with Raggytash more (1:52 pm) .
"...We were blind and now we see".
All we have to do is believe the results after some astronauts return the Rover samples to Earth to study 11 years or more from now regarding evidence of life on Mars.

As for robo, who am I to argue with me. ;^/


18 Feb 21 - 04:11 PM (#4093713)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

We just had a successful landing, cheering mission control workers, first photos and now questions from kids for NASA folks.

Can't wait for that helicopter to get tried out.


18 Feb 21 - 05:39 PM (#4093721)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Steve Shaw

Amazing. You send up a probe, control it to delicately land on a sixpence, collect what will be the most precious samples on earth, send up a tiny helicopter to survey the surroundings and elect Donald Trump...


18 Feb 21 - 05:45 PM (#4093722)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Mrrzy

That was SO COOL!


18 Feb 21 - 07:26 PM (#4093731)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

Steve:

Not in that order. But you voted for Brexit. Not YOU, but the same You you meant, only directed toward you. Not YOU, but, you know...

That was so effin' cool. It was almost like we had a government that practised SCIENCE.

See what I did, there, Steve? ;-)


18 Feb 21 - 07:43 PM (#4093734)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Bill D

Sandman... you realize that most of the money was spent long before anyone ever imagined COVID?

I doubt you have bothered to read what we hope to learn from this mission.


18 Feb 21 - 07:59 PM (#4093737)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Steve Shaw

I was regurgitating, levity intended, what my son WhatsApped to me earlier, robo. I think we discussed the "You" thing in another thread recently. Brits use it in the way I did and some yanks think it's intended to be personal. It isn't. I suppose I could have started the post with "The country that sends..." instead of "You," but that seems to me to be adding a layer of heaviness to proceedings.

Anyway, not you. By the way, I think the science was practised in spite of your government...


18 Feb 21 - 09:04 PM (#4093742)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

Steve I really understood the levity. That was my attempt, however poor, to match it. As for the science references, I won't believe 'em for the simple reason that I don't want to. I prefer to think that the better angels of our nature, as Lincoln mentioned, will master the situation and did you know that Abraham Lincoln and Charles Darwin were born on the same day, and Charles Darwin was provided with texts by the great German traveling scientist Humboldt, and many counties in 'Murrica are named after him?


18 Feb 21 - 09:11 PM (#4093743)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Steve Shaw

I did. There's Darwin, Beethoven and precious few other heroes.


18 Feb 21 - 09:20 PM (#4093746)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

Right now there's Navalny. He's a kind of hero. Nemtsov. Tom Brady....oops.


19 Feb 21 - 04:03 AM (#4093766)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

The idea appears to be feck up planet earth , so find another planet to desecrate. Capitalist ideology, when you exploit and destroy one thing find another one to destroy


19 Feb 21 - 05:52 AM (#4093779)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: JHW

Nature's plan, if it has one, is to overwhelm the Earth, every critter only aimed at it's own survival even at the demise of others. Like this Virus, doesn't care, has nothing to care with yet it happily will do us in. A fungus did in the Elm trees, I liked Elm trees but the fungus won. Sure we are desecrating the Earth but if we step aside it will still do itself in.


19 Feb 21 - 06:19 AM (#4093780)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

have you spoken to god, how do you know that? that reminds me of nero fiddling when rome was burning.
there are certain things we can do but if money is misspent on going to mars, there is less money to deal with more pressing priorites


19 Feb 21 - 07:50 AM (#4093786)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

Which president was responsible obama or trump?


19 Feb 21 - 08:06 AM (#4093789)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

The Mars Pathfinder mission cost approximately $265 million including launch and operations. Development and construction of the lander cost $150 million and the rover about $25 million."


19 Feb 21 - 10:30 AM (#4093816)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Mrrzy

The point is for humanity to survive our planet, not for our planet to survive...


19 Feb 21 - 10:33 AM (#4093817)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

no, it is for both to survive.


19 Feb 21 - 10:50 AM (#4093826)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Raggytash

All celestial bodies have a finite limit of their resources. It is inevitable that those resources will, one day, be used up.

Therefore it is imperative for the continuation of the human species that we look to colonise other, more distant, planets.


19 Feb 21 - 12:22 PM (#4093839)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Mrrzy

Unless we can move the planet out of the way of the sun's expansion to red giant, or prevent that expansion, no, there is no plan for the planet's survival. The plan is for humans to survive the planet.


19 Feb 21 - 12:24 PM (#4093841)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: WalkaboutsVerse

There was another such landing back in July 1997 (I was actually in New York on a stopover when repatriating from Australia to England), as mentioned in this WalkaboutsVerse poem "Efficiency"


19 Feb 21 - 12:34 PM (#4093844)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Raggytash

Mrrzy, have you ever read the "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" series by Douglas Adams ............ I think you may be enjoy them!


19 Feb 21 - 01:31 PM (#4093859)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

Raggy tash , you cannot predict the future any more than anyone else you are talking uniformed nonsense, further more to spend 435 million on your long shot is idiocy. Consumer capitalismm,and the WASTE society HAS CAUSED THIS MESS.. WHY NOT RECTIFY IT
who is behind this idiocy ,the richest man in the world.


19 Feb 21 - 01:37 PM (#4093860)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

Image result for the richest man in the world 2021
Key Takeaways. Elon Musk is the CEO and co-founder of Tesla; CEO, leader designer, and founder of SpaceX; CEO and founder of Neuralink; and founder of The Boring Company. With an estimated net worth of $197 billion, he is the richest man in the world.25 Jan 2021

if you think this guy is concerned about the environment of planet earth, you are either naive or thick


19 Feb 21 - 01:40 PM (#4093861)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Mrrzy

Oh yeah, read it, reread it, even liked the movie!


19 Feb 21 - 02:44 PM (#4093865)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Raggytash

Uniformed nonsense, never come across that before :-)


19 Feb 21 - 03:12 PM (#4093868)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Manitas_at_home

Keystone Kops?


19 Feb 21 - 04:11 PM (#4093877)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2102/Mars_Perseverance_FLR_0000_0666952977_800.jpg

better pictures to follow
This was from the left front collision avoidance camera.


19 Feb 21 - 06:23 PM (#4093889)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

Apparently the landing operation was heavily documented with GoPros and there will be a stitchin together of the actual landing in glorious color.

As for those who wonder at the relatively small expense all this exploration is costing, back in the 1780s the Montefiore Brothers sent up what I think was the first hot air balloon, and they even had a payload basket with some animals in it. The large balloon wafted with the breeze catching the eyes of thousands. When the gasbag cooled and it came down it was attacked iwth pitchforks by local farmers. Among the onlookers was one American. You may have heard of him.

Someone asked: "What use is it?" To which Benjamin Franklin answered: "What use is a newborn baby?"


20 Feb 21 - 02:17 AM (#4093916)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

Someone asked: "What use is it?" To which Benjamin Franklin answered: "What use is a newborn baby?"
that does not answer the question


20 Feb 21 - 02:29 AM (#4093917)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

The answer WAS a question.
Maybe it still is.


20 Feb 21 - 03:30 AM (#4093920)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Mr Red

they should be spending this money on defeating covid

Weeeeeeeeeeeeell, maybe, at least Dolly Parton did! And nobody tells her how to spend her money, no suuuuuuree.


20 Feb 21 - 03:36 AM (#4093921)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Mr Red

Everything from weather data to personal communications across a broad spectrum that includes, for example, water purification systems, cancer detection devices, heart pumps, fire resistant materials etc etc.

Oxygen, don't forget oxygen (from CO2) - without it you can't say:   A Mars a day helps you work rest and play

(was this only a UK ad?)


20 Feb 21 - 08:42 AM (#4093971)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Raggytash

Perhaps we should close the schools and spend that budget on Covid research, I mean to say education shows no immediate results.

In fact I would go further and say education is wasted on some people.


20 Feb 21 - 04:05 PM (#4094016)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

Education shows immediate results
Education is not wasted on anybody.
People who are not educated, Lack Knowledge.
Anybody who says education shows no immediate results is uneducated.


20 Feb 21 - 06:51 PM (#4094031)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Bill D

None of those tell us anything useful or new...
Trivial, tautological or circular
... and I know of much wasted 'education' ...and knowledge is often rejected for years before it can educate anyone.

too many examples to list.


21 Feb 21 - 02:39 AM (#4094062)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

that is not the point , education has an immediate effect it also has a long term effect . anyone who says that education does not have an immediatede effect is taking bull shit .
BILL D IT DOES TELL US SOMETHING USEFUl.
Education is all important, but even more importnt is how we educate., the poor quality of politicians and civil servants is a result pertly of poor education, and not bothering to educate all members of society, you will not get the best results if you only educate those who can afford to pay for university education.   
    people who are not taught to think ahead, to anitcipate and solve problems, will not make the best polticians or civil servants, the consequence of this for society is that we lose the innovators the problem solvers and Consequentially society will be poorer, we need
those who challenge the established. order a case in point was Galileo.

which brings us to immediate pressing problems that need to be solved... a pandemic. a pandemic that might recur.
The usa should be spending the money it has spent on this folly on redesigning and altering government buildings schools hospitals so that they are custom built to design with covid 19 that is the pressing priority, it also is keynsian economics, and will boost the economy while saving lives


21 Feb 21 - 03:40 AM (#4094067)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Bonzo3legs

A good proportion of young people who go to university are time wasters, supposedly studying for totally irrelevant degrees, who are deliberately putting off the day to cast their useless selves into the job market.


21 Feb 21 - 04:57 AM (#4094083)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

bonzo, that suits politicians, because it keeps the unemployment figures down,
my point is that if a country wishes to do the best for the whole nation , they need to ensure that the whole population has the opportunity to be educated, unless the whole population has the opportunity to be educated we will not get the best brains. Anation will not get the best out of its population if university educationis restricted to those who can afford to pay
   there may be a proprtion that" go to university to supposedly study for irrelevant degrees" quote.
The bigger the catchment of people allowed to enter university based on academic merit[ rather than abilty to pay, the more the country will benefit
."A good proportion of young people who go to university are time wasters"
can you provide stats to indicate the exact proportion, or is this just an uninformed opinion


21 Feb 21 - 05:20 AM (#4094087)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Bonzo3legs

You should know by now I don't do stats or research. I do need to open a jar of Sainsbury's Strawberry Conserve for my wife and plan tomorrow's tax saving work. What are you doing for your wife Sandman??


21 Feb 21 - 09:19 AM (#4094124)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Raggytash

It would seem according to the argument put forward that my education was indeed wasted.


21 Feb 21 - 09:46 AM (#4094131)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Mrrzy

Nonsense, Raggytash, you made total sense...


22 Feb 21 - 12:22 PM (#4094292)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

Raggytash , the last time i saw you ,you were driving round whitby in a flash car in what appeared to be a proprietorial manner as if you owned the town, each to their own,, fair enough ,A chacun son gout


22 Feb 21 - 01:13 PM (#4094301)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Raggytash

I wonder how one can discern, just from watching someone driving a car, that the driver was doing it in a proprietorial manner.

I also wonder just what was the "flash" car, the only cars we ever owned have either been bought and paid for and frankly what we do with our money has got fuck all to do with you.

Nevertheless, I see it's my turn again to be got at, well you're leaving others alone for a while.

I care not one whit what you think, but I have to ask you one question have you been arguing with the wife again.


22 Feb 21 - 01:44 PM (#4094304)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: The Sandman

No, I have not.


22 Feb 21 - 03:07 PM (#4094314)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

It is hard to see how education has benifited some. Shall we count the ways. Even as trolls go they are perfectly mediocre.

Mr. Sandman (yes) bring us a dream
Give him a pair of eyes with a "come-hither" gleam
Give him a lonely heart like Pagliacci
And lots of wavy hair like Liberace
Mr. Sandman, someone to hold (some-one-to-hold)
Would be so peachy before we're too old

Mr. Grandstand Turn on your magic beam
Mr. Sandman, bring us a dream

a dream like driving
driving on Mars.
beneath the red sky
at night all the stars.
its not a Morris
like some UK small cars.
Mr. Sandman turn on your high beams

Mr Sandman
turn on some tunes
music in thin air
sounds like bad fumes
don't try to grow even one potato
or even leafy legumes
Its just too damn cold.

Mr. Sandman...


22 Feb 21 - 03:10 PM (#4094315)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

Zzzz snore


22 Feb 21 - 03:15 PM (#4094316)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

dream


23 Feb 21 - 09:06 AM (#4094436)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

NASA video

There is also a phone app to get new pics as they are released


23 Feb 21 - 06:10 PM (#4094513)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

There was a great press conference yesterday. I ate it up. Don'l has linked to the footage I described earlier, where all the various landing linked cameras took pictures of various parts of the Mars landing procedure, which went as flawlessly as possible. In the press conference, the various responsible parties gave fascinating accounts of their approaches, problems, and solutions, many of which were to get off-the-shelf parts and devices, but then configure them for cleanliness and space dust.

I believe in education, but defining education and practising good education and the issue of moral or ethical use of said education rapidly leads to -discussion-. I believe that the French have reputable and long established schools for people in government bureaucracy and presumably many of them become elected officials. Can we say that France is better off than other European countries with those establishments?

Many people are educated idiots. It doesn't save them from being idiots. And that includes technical education. Education, as in 'school' can also stifle thought. Education to my mind is not to fill a mind with current theory and understood fact, but to teach the mind to teach itself and furnish an awareness of how wrong things can go.

When Galileo wrote about rings of Saturn and moons of Jupiter, he was describing new things unknown by Archimedes. That was close to a radical act in his era. Education at his time was under strict control, as though knowledge can be 'managed'.

Watching and hearing these young and not-so-young scientists, engineers, and designers talk about the adventure of putting together their robots and rockets is incredibly inspiring and educational in the truest sense of that word.

"The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled." - Plutarch


24 Feb 21 - 07:06 PM (#4094704)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

Robo has caught fire.


25 Feb 21 - 05:33 AM (#4094759)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

Dare mighty things


26 Feb 21 - 05:19 PM (#4095044)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

persevevernce takes a selfie https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2102/PIA24264.jpg


27 Feb 21 - 10:52 AM (#4095150)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

The total cost of the F-35 was 1.9 Trillion dollars. A total waste although robo was impressed.


02 Mar 21 - 06:28 AM (#4095651)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel


02 Mar 21 - 06:29 AM (#4095653)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2103/Helicopter_Mars2020_3811.jpg


02 Mar 21 - 07:02 AM (#4095655)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Steve Shaw

"Education to my mind is not to fill a mind with current theory and understood fact, but to teach the mind to teach itself and furnish an awareness of how wrong things can go."

That's it. Other required elements are firing up enthusiasm and curiosity, showing the connectedness of things and developing the skill to see patterns. My numero uno hobby horse, apropos of your last point, is to be ultra-sceptical of new things you are told and demand evidence (real evidence) at all times. The facts will follow naturally. But you simply must learn your times tables... :-)


02 Mar 21 - 03:18 PM (#4095721)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

...and who to trust.


03 Mar 21 - 08:21 PM (#4095931)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

There will be NASA update Friday

FRIDAY 5 MARCH
8:30 PM Greenwich (ZULU)
3:30 PM EST
12:30 PM PST

Meanwhile, someone posted a set of stills from the Mars Perseverance probe with some background music, probably not from the probe:

The sun from MARS


09 Apr 21 - 09:05 PM (#4101630)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

The Mars drone Ingenuity may fly for the first time this Sunday 11 April 2021.


10 Apr 21 - 11:19 AM (#4101757)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: EBarnacle

It did fly, apparently quite successfully.
When I saw the title of this thread, as an active Ham operator, I thought of Military Amateur Radio Service, which is still connecting members of the service with families and friends around the planet for free.


11 Apr 21 - 01:04 AM (#4101815)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

According to the internet, Ingenuity it did not complete a rotation test and the actual first flight has been postponed until Wednesday pending successful test.

Back to watching Star Trek reruns


11 Apr 21 - 12:07 PM (#4101868)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

The release of ingenuitiy's spores and bacteria are on hold? 8^(
Thats gonna delay the cockroaches for sure.

I bet terraforming is still being considered.


11 Apr 21 - 01:22 PM (#4101874)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Bill D

Terraforming is a constant idea.. though largely a pipe dream, like mining the asteroids. Science fiction has lots of theories.


11 Apr 21 - 02:21 PM (#4101885)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: robomatic

I think in Mars' case terraforming awaits orbital reassignment.

Details at 11.


12 Apr 21 - 07:01 AM (#4101956)
Subject: RE: BS: MARS in the Headlights
From: Donuel

heh heh