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Types of folk music you like or dislike

07 Jan 20 - 02:54 AM (#4026676)
Subject: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

On another thread we were discussing source singers. Rather than clutter up that thread with these questions, here they are!

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?I
Do you prefer revival and present day singers?
Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?
Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?
What about electric folk?
Dance music, social or ritual?

I'm sure many more will come up over the course of the discussion but please do not turn this into another what is folk music thread! I'll kick off.

I have listened to quite a lot of source singers and even seen one perform. I think we can get a lot from them and they have input a lot into the folk world we see today but I find some of the material not to my taste.

I enjoy most revival singers a lot more easily. I'm not sure why this is. Maybe because they have updated (the folk process!) the songs to suit today's ear? This could also explain changing trends in any genre.

I do enjoy unaccompanied song when it is well done. I do prefer, in the main, accompanied or harmony performances though. This is possibly because I like the music more than the lyrics. I'm not greatly into poetry either.

I am not concerned if the song was written yesterday or a thousand years ago as long as it is good music!

I love electric folk and other derivations such as adding brass like Bellowhead or Brass Monkey did.

My favourite, saved till last of course :-), is dance music. Both social and ritual. I must add though that ritual dance music, for me, is best accompanied by ritual dance :-)

Ok. Enough from me for now. Over to you...


07 Jan 20 - 05:42 AM (#4026707)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Raggytash

I have found that most "source singers" I have either seen or listen to tend to be a tad tedious and stodgy, not natural entertainers so I moved away from them many years ago.

I was fortunate to be living in Manchester in the late 60's, early 70's when the folk scene there seemed to be thriving with a choice of various clubs every night of the week with a vast array of great performers across a wide spectrum of what I consider to be folk music. From Mary Asquith and Tom Yates, through Marie Little, Rosie Hardman, Ted Edwards, Mike Harding, The Beggarmen, Jolly Jack, The Oldham Tinkers, Planxty and countless others. There was, on reflection, a fair number of below par acts too.

I really enjoy unaccompanied song, especially when sung in harmony, words matter a lot to me. Like Dave I care not if the song was "written yesterday or a thousand years ago"

Not really a great lover of electronic folk, it tends to distract from the words or make them difficult to decipher, but like Dave a touch of Brass instrumentation is a joy, must be my Northern roots.

Dance is really a closed book to me, I've got two left feet, both on a right leg.

I have to say that I find performers of today tend to be far better musicians than they were "back in my day", they tend (in my experience) to have a better understanding of where the music came from and they tend to be far better singers.

In fact the standards of today are far higher (again in my opinion) than they were a few decades ago.


07 Jan 20 - 05:51 AM (#4026711)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Johnny J

I like and dislike all types.
:-)


07 Jan 20 - 06:27 AM (#4026719)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: DMcG

I enjoy source singers, and have a lot of the 'Voice of the People' CDs, but in a way I can't really explain, I enjoy it differently to most revivalist singers. I particularly like unaccompanied harmony, whether it is The Young Tradition or The Flying Pickets, or Bob and Ron Copper.

I gave a talk a few years back on the Hammond brothers collecting traditional music from sources and pointed out that some of the songs they collected as traditional were music hall 'hits' of around about the same age then as Queen's Fat-Bottomed Girls was to us. It is easy to be too precious about these things (IMO, naturally)

About the only genre I don't really get on with is blues. I can enjoy it for about 15 minutes, then just get bored.


07 Jan 20 - 07:19 AM (#4026728)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor

I like both kinds of music, Country and Western.

Seriously though, I don't use any criteria that I'm consciously aware of to evaluate songs, I either like them or I don't or I grow to like them (as long as they're not from barbershop quartets) but here are my answers:

How do you define "source singers"?
yes
accompanied
both
some
dance music and it depends on what you mean by "social or ritual".


07 Jan 20 - 07:32 AM (#4026729)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor

replace "consciously aware" with either conscious or aware.


07 Jan 20 - 07:56 AM (#4026732)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Richard Mellish

> Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?
Yes.

> Do you prefer revival and present day singers?
Sometimes. I prefer a good revival singer to a source singer who was well past his/her prime, but I can still enjoy the source singer in a different way.

> Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?
No preference if the accompaniment is exactly that, but I hate "accompaniment" that smothers the words. I also hate an instrumental introduction that lasts for more than a few bars, especially if it's not even the proper tune but just noodling.

> Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?
Both, but it depends on the song, and a lot of contemporary material does nothing for me (and likewise some traditional, especially if I've heard a particular song too often).

> What about electric folk?
Tolerable if it neither smothers the words nor wastes time, but that is very rare.

> Dance music, social or ritual?
Yes. Used to play for a morris side, still participate in sessions occasionally, and I do dance (general international and especially Swedish).

One more preference: I am quite happy to join in choruses, but I object to the notion of a "chorus song" that seems to exist mainly for the sake of the chorus; one of my pet hates is a performer's starting out by "teaching" the chorus before starting the song proper; and another pet hate is adding an extra chorus at the end.


07 Jan 20 - 08:07 AM (#4026735)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Hi gillymor

A source singer is one who learned traditional songs in their original context. Such as Walter Pardon, Fred Jorden or the Copper family. I think the term came about because they were the source for a lot of the collections that revival artists now use. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong :-)

Social is ceilidh or barn dancing - Socialy! Ritual is such dances as Morris, Rapper, Molly etc.

Hope this helps.


07 Jan 20 - 08:20 AM (#4026739)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Howard Jones

Some of all of those.

In my view, the revival style has evolved to be something quite different from the traditional style, and has probably been largely influenced by other factors from outside the original tradition. Most obviously, the revival usually features accompaniment. In the early days of folk clubs quite a number of source singers appeared there and probably had some influence on the revival singers, but in most cases (and certainly my own) revival singers developed their style by listening to other revival singers. Folk music as performed on the folk scene is usually very different from how it was originally performed.

I do listen to source singers, but often to be informed rather than to be entertained. It can certainly be an acquired taste (the same can be said about opera or jazz) but it repays a bit of effort. Even so, I find a little goes a long way.

However it must be remembered that source singers don't always come across as well on record as in real life. It can be difficult to recreate the energy which comes naturally when performing to an audience, and simply having a mic in front of you can be inhibiting. In most cases the recordings were intended as a permanent record rather than to be released for entertainment, and they may have been made on sub-optimal equipment and in sub-optimal conditions. I am fortunate to have been able to listen to a number of traditional singers when they were still alive, and in most cases that was a very different experience from listening to recordings of them.


07 Jan 20 - 08:29 AM (#4026742)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Daniel Kelly

The concert that Joe Heaney did in Australia, recorded by Warren Fahey and up on his website is incredible.

On the other hand, listening to the interviews that 'collectors' did with Joe is just terrible, because you can hear that they just don't 'get' what Joe is trying to explain to them.

I think it may be because unless you hear the songs through the eyes and ears of someone raised in Connacht, listening around the peat fire in the evening, the songs don't speak to you.

I can listen to Joe sing for hours.

I cannot listen to orchestra backed opera singers with affected accents singing the peoples music of Ireland.

Also a plug for Song of Granite, a fantastic movie about source singers in Ireland and Joe's life.


https://www.warrenfahey.com.au/joe-heaney/


07 Jan 20 - 08:30 AM (#4026743)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham

I like all of it but not for the same reasons.


07 Jan 20 - 09:04 AM (#4026751)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous

I've enjoyed many on this list: Planxty, Mike Harding, Bellowhead, Oyster Band (have on vinyl somewhere) also I like instrumental material eg Katherine Tickell, Aly Bain and Phil Cunningham, 'folk guitar' eg when v young I saw and liked Bert Jansch (who reached a young me in the way a source singer could never have done, same for Fairport and Steeleye Span). I fully admit to enjoying a good go of Wild Rover with table banging, it is fun and a social event and anybody who looks down on this is possibly what they call up themselves as far as I am concerned (though who am I to talk). I have enjoyed and played with Morris (melodeon, Oyster Girl, Staten Island, British Grenadiers etc) but it was the fun of dressing up and the rhythms of the clogs as much as anything else. Not much for the hanky waving stuff. Also some Cajun music in the past.


07 Jan 20 - 09:05 AM (#4026754)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous

I would have loved to get some deeper understanding of some sort of Indian music but it doesn't look as if I ever shall now. The sounds and melodies are entrancing.


07 Jan 20 - 09:16 AM (#4026760)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Mo the caller

"Folk music as performed on the folk scene is usually very different from how it was originally performed."
Howard is probably right there, certainly that is true about dance. The way the dances of Jane Austen's day were performed back then / when they were first revival (only yesterday, or nearly 100 years ago depending on your viewpoint) / now at clubs full of pensioners / now at 'zesty' clubs are all very different, and a lot of people think the way they first learnt is the 'right' way.

My dislikes are mucked up tunes, but I like interesting arrangements (one man's meat...). I don't like singer-songwriters with guitars droning on in sessions. But there are exceptions. Hate guitarists who cant keep their fingers off the strings but noodle all the time. It annoys me when singers give the whole story away in the introduction - why bother singing it.
Likes - all the rest. Traditional singers and musicians like Martin Carthy and Alistair Anderson (or do I mean 'revival').


07 Jan 20 - 09:19 AM (#4026761)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor

Thanks for the info, Dave.


07 Jan 20 - 09:29 AM (#4026764)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Rain Dog

They sing the introduction? :)


07 Jan 20 - 09:33 AM (#4026766)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Hootenanny

Pseud,

Re your posting at 09.05

You might like to check out this site: http://www.sarangi.net/

Lots of info and videos of the real thing.


07 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM (#4026768)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: John MacKenzie

Define folk music?


07 Jan 20 - 09:45 AM (#4026771)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

John - bugger off :-P


07 Jan 20 - 09:56 AM (#4026774)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Jack Campin

There's a lot of stuff labelled "folk music" which I don't exactly dislike but just zone out with. Almost any guitar-accompanied solo singing unless I already know the text well - I can hardly ever follow the words for any accompanied song of any genre, so it makes no difference to me whether a guy with a guitar is singing in English or Albanian.

One exception being Jean Redpath's collaboration with Serge Hovey, about the only accompanied Scottish song I can see any point in.


07 Jan 20 - 10:38 AM (#4026786)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Top of the heap for me are traditional tunes of Ireland, Northumberland and Scotland (in that order). I can't sing but I love singing. If you sing down your nose I'm going for a wee. Singer-guitarists had better be bloody good guitarists and they should leave the harmonica rack at home. I adore Nic Jones. Over-embellished accompaniment and slick arrangements are just showing off. I like some Fairport and Steeleye but not much of it. I thought that Sandy Denny was wonderful. I'm a bit of a Shirley Collins completist for reasons I've never been able to understand. If you haven't got No Roses you haven't lived. No Watersons for me, thanks, or any of that Spiers/Boden racket. On the whole I dislike groups, especially the slick modern young bucks, but there's a special place in my heart for Planxty, the Bothies, Altan (seen 'em three times) and De Dannan. And Patrick Street, consummate musicians all. I can hear meself clapping on their live album. And Luke Kelly is absolute numero uno. I confess to listening and singing along to mucho Christy in the car. Seen Christy live four times. I saw loads of really good live acts at the Tree Inn Folk Club before its demise. House Band, Andy Irvine, Roy Bailey, Martin Carthy, Liam O'Flynn, Wizz Jones, Vin Garbutt, Wood/Cutting (superb), Davy Steele, Dick Gaughan, John Kirkpatrick, Jez Lowe and the Bad Pennies, Pauline Cato and Tom McConville (they were at the Garland Ox in Bodmin), Show of Hands, Noel Murphy (begod that man could sink pints), and a lot more that I feel I'm insulting by leaving them out due to forgetfulness. Oh, Ron Kavana and Friends, the ottimo. The nub is that I enjoyed all of 'em because I saw them live. I've always found something a bit odd about listening to traditional music on CDs, though I still do it, not so much these days, and there's nothing like doing it yourself. As for the old timers/source singers, well it has to be recordings only, which can be a drawback. Listening to old taped stuff can't convey what it must have been like to be there in the pub or the kitchen hearing them doing their stuff. But we can learn a lot about our heritage from them. In fact, if we no longer listen to them I'm not sure we can understand what our heritage is.

And no bloody award ceremonies or competitions, please!


07 Jan 20 - 10:43 AM (#4026788)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

I like most kinds of music, folk and otherwise. My tastes in folk covers a wide variety of styles..from Frankie Armstrong to Show of Hands...I don't know if they could be called "source" singers, but I do like the Watersons, Frank Profit , Hedy West and so on.
The kind I don't like are the overly preachy ones..Phil Ochs comes to mind. I also listen to a lot of instrumental folk, Nigel Eaton, Martin Simpson, Katherine Tickell.
I have never understood the desire to pigeon hole music or the insistence that we can only enjoy it if we listen intently. It seems to me that the things music should do is entertain us, fill us with Joy, make us want to sing along, make us want to dance...
It is a joyful thing but some seem to want to turn it into a cultural weapon....I say just embrace it and have fun.


07 Jan 20 - 11:10 AM (#4026797)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Vic Smith

And no bloody award ceremonies or competitions, please!


07 Jan 20 - 11:21 AM (#4026802)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: John MacKenzie

Spot on Vic. This back slapping onanistic smug self congratulatory practice, stinks. Until a horse wins one, then they're all bogus. ;)


07 Jan 20 - 11:22 AM (#4026803)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous

Agree on Vin Garbutt and Roy Bailey (old school leftie), both of whom I saw live.


07 Jan 20 - 11:38 AM (#4026806)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: The Sandman

having heard, dave the gnome ,i am not surprised he doesnt like source singers.


07 Jan 20 - 11:44 AM (#4026807)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jim Carroll

"old school leftie"
Once again McCarthyism rears its ugly head
Why do people sink to this childish name calling (particularly as the world is once again teetering on the brink of war once again thanks to belligerent rightism) !!
Give it a rest please or become a member and take your politics below the line
It really does have no place here
Jim Carroll


07 Jan 20 - 12:33 PM (#4026814)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

You do have gift for “belligerent” hyperbole , Jim. It wasn’t,t McCarthyism, it was a simple comment about the singers political leanings, nothing more
many people, myself included, are often left cold by overly political preaching in songs. a good protest song is one thing, but rants are quite another, don,t you think ?


07 Jan 20 - 12:35 PM (#4026816)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Not sure what that means, Dick. Would you not rather stick to the point and let us know your own likes and dislikes? For what it's worth, I do like some of the source stuff. As I said in the OP I just find some of the stuff not to my taste.


07 Jan 20 - 12:36 PM (#4026817)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: The Sandman

but why is it necessary to mention a singers, politics ,does anyone talk about johnny collins or peter bellamy and their political leanings


07 Jan 20 - 12:39 PM (#4026820)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

I would like to keep this thread interesting and clean please.

Thanks in advance


07 Jan 20 - 12:47 PM (#4026824)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Following HiLo's post, I could have mentioned Woody Guthrie, one of my absolute heroes, who used songs politically but never via rants. He made his points via stories, poetic writing and life experiences, no preaching, no bitterness. I love Dick Gaughan, but on occasion he hits you directly between the eyes with his politics. Christy has been known to do the same. My politics are their politics, and I'm not saying that their approach isn't valid, but I prefer to be given the sentiment alone and to flesh out the politics for myself, which is what Woody does. When I see a great painting, just a little background is all I need. I don't need a great explanatory screed. Art can communicate for itself, if it's good art.


07 Jan 20 - 12:50 PM (#4026825)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

"...and a lot more that I feel I'm insulting by leaving them out due to forgetfulness."

Damn! And Brian Peters, of course!


07 Jan 20 - 01:02 PM (#4026828)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,toubabdoc (David Levine)

Re: "Old school leftie."Not necessarily an insult, Jimmy!
(Is this the Jimmu Carrol I used to know from the Critic's Group?)


07 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM (#4026829)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

I'm quite proud to say that during my time at Swinton Folk Club and Festival I personally booked Roy Bailey, Vin Garbutt and Brian Peters. I also booked Rumworth Morris, the Orlek Ukrainian Dance Troupe and Ghanaian story teller Tuup. May give a good indication of my likes :-)


07 Jan 20 - 01:16 PM (#4026832)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Jack Campin

I wouldn't call much of Roy Bailey's work "rants" either.

Come to think of it, the few singers-with-guitars I can appreciate are all the most political. Leon Rosselson and Anne Feeney can make every word count; neither has a reputation for instrumental pyrotechnics but they wouldn't want one.


07 Jan 20 - 01:24 PM (#4026834)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

I forgot one of my favourites too. Anthony John Clarke.


07 Jan 20 - 01:54 PM (#4026839)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

With English folk, at least, I like those that repeat the tune well - as I've detailed here.


07 Jan 20 - 01:55 PM (#4026840)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

here, sorry.


07 Jan 20 - 02:21 PM (#4026844)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST

More xenophobe drivel linked there from Walkabout.

'Our streets full of foreign restaurants, our teams full of foreign footballers, our airwaves full of foreign music - modern England is a national disgrace.'

And more of it.

Mods should remove the links he posts.


07 Jan 20 - 02:46 PM (#4026846)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous

Jim and your 'MacCarthyism' gibes: go away and grow up. This is one reason I liked the man for f's sake. This is a thread about music you like?


07 Jan 20 - 02:54 PM (#4026848)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jim Carroll

"Not necessarily an insult, Jimmy!"
When it is used to denigrate what folk performers have to say it becomes exactly that David

"Is this the Jimmu Carrol I used to know from the Critic's Group?"
I was a member of the Critics Group
"Is this the Jimmu Carrol I used to know from the Critic's Group?"
Don't remember either a David Levine or anybody named 'Jimmu" :-)
Ewan's mam used to call me Jimmy

" It wasn’t McCarthyism, it was a simple comment about the singers political leanings, nothing more"
See above
This individual has set out to depict folk music in its entirety as a "leftie wet dream" from day one
Obviously draws her information from Mad Maggie's handbook of political diplomacy
Jim


07 Jan 20 - 03:11 PM (#4026852)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Please, people. This is supposed to be about music likes and dislikes. If you dislike political songs, just say so. No need to turn it into a battle ground. That route only leads to closure.


07 Jan 20 - 03:12 PM (#4026853)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

"Old school leftie" as a descriptor of Roy Bailey was indeed totally uncalled for. Roy was a gentle, caring man whose politics was well-considered, well-informed and well-grounded, aware of our socialist roots but well-versed in modern mores. About 25 years ago we spent a lovely evening with him when his gig at our pub went a bit pear-shaped due to lack of publicity. He was gracious about it and gave us a full set of songs and he chatted with us for ages. One of the nicest chaps I've ever met. Crude characterisations such as the one made by Karen are completely inappropriate.


07 Jan 20 - 03:23 PM (#4026854)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Mrrzy

I don't seem to know what a Source Singer is.

I like everything but rap and modern jazz, as genres go. But I don't like a lot of music that falls into genres I usually like.


07 Jan 20 - 03:25 PM (#4026855)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Is it OK to say that I bloody hate jazz, Dave? :-)


07 Jan 20 - 03:28 PM (#4026856)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Well, Mrrzy, I'd never heard the term until I read the Walter thread. I suppose it's a convenient term but it's not accurate and it's a bit annoying. A bit like "folk scene." ;-)


07 Jan 20 - 03:56 PM (#4026863)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham

The term 'source singer' arose when some sectors of the folk scene started to describe revival singers as 'traditional singers' which was the term we always used for the likes of Walter. What terms would you like to see used instead of convenience terms 'source singer' and 'folk scene'? We're always looking to clarify.


07 Jan 20 - 04:02 PM (#4026865)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

It certainly is, Steve. I used to think the same but accidentally fell into a Jazz festival when I was working in Brussels and found some bits I liked. I think the Trappist beers helped as well :-)


07 Jan 20 - 04:46 PM (#4026871)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: meself

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?
Yes.

Do you prefer revival and present day singers?
No.

Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?
No preference.

Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?
Trad, moreso.

What about electric folk?
Nope.

Dance music, social or ritual?
Sorry - what's the question? I like the dance music I like, if that helps ... ?


07 Jan 20 - 05:02 PM (#4026879)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

We have an annual jazz festival in Bude. I'm still not impressed! We did see Acker Bilk there many years ago. That was grand. The only other jazz gig I went to was Humph's band in Exeter, six weeks before Humph unexpectedly died. A. bunch of old buggers with nothing to prove, no showing off, really enjoying themselves. Humph came out at the end and chatted to us and drew a lovely sketch in the book of his we'd bought for my dad-in-law. I can live with that. Humph told a joke about Barry Cryer.

Barry: "Have you ever shoed a horse?"

Humph: "No, but I once told a pig to piss off."


07 Jan 20 - 06:16 PM (#4026894)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Dunno, Steve. I'm a bit of an outsider when it comes to English traditional music, revelling as I mostly do in Irish tunery. "Scene" seems a bit pretentious and "source singers" is definitely inaccurate. Still, I only mentioned it, and I haven't got any convenient alternatives to hand. I can live with both terms, even though I might avoid using them.


07 Jan 20 - 06:18 PM (#4026895)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe Offer

I suppose I like a bit of everything, but I generally don't like "singer-songwriters," unless they are writing in a traditional style. I tend to seek out people who sing songs I can learn and sing. I don't really like to perform solo, although I sometimes do. My favorite thing to do, is to sing with other people. I've been involved in various forms of community singing since I was about ten years old, and I still can't get enough of it.

I used to like Peter Paul and Mary and the Kingston Trio and Limeliters and all that folk revival stuff of the 1950s and 1960s, but I think I've mostly outgrown them. Bok-Muir-Trickett and the Golden Ring albums that Sandy Paton and others recorded, are more to my liking now.

I like Roy Bailey a lot, often more than the people he got his songs from.

I like listening to and learning from source singers, but in small doses.

-Joe-


07 Jan 20 - 07:14 PM (#4026912)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Quite an interesting aspect of much classical music was the extent to which it was Influenced by folk music. Mozart wrote a number of country dances, Dvorak got much inspiration from American tunes, Brahms, the ould bearded curmudgeon, spent most evenings in a village pub sitting in a corner on his own and really appreciated the local pub bands (I haven't spotted much of their influence in his music, though he did write all those Hungarian Dances), we needn't even mention Vaughan Williams or George Butterworth, and above all Beethoven, who not only set (nicely but unauthentically) some British folk songs but who also repeatedly parodied, always in a very affectionate way, country dance bands, slightly but delightfully losing their rhythm, in the "peasants' merrymaking" in the Pastoral Symphony, in the Allegro ma non tanto second movement (the trio bit) of his late A minor string quartet and in the memorable rustic stomp in the finale of the late E flat string quartet. Slightly pissed pub bands cropping up in some of the sublime masterpieces of western music: what's not to love!   It's really good to see these connections. Maybe there isn't folk, classical, jazz and pop. Maybe there's just music!


08 Jan 20 - 02:32 AM (#4026940)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Amen to that, Steve!

I mentioned changing trends in folk and other genres earlier. One thing that is consistent with all types of music. The good survives. Good music also seems to bridge genres but I guess that deserves a thread of its own :-)


08 Jan 20 - 03:25 AM (#4026943)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: DMcG


Quite an interesting aspect of much classical music was the extent to which it was Influenced by folk music


I had a quite long and as usual fruitless discussion with someone online on that topic when the BBC first decided to allocate a day of the Proms to folk music. Naturally, and to some extent understandably, my debater felt this was detracting from the classical nature of the proms.


08 Jan 20 - 04:45 AM (#4026949)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Observer

1. Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?

Yes.

2. Do you prefer revival and present day singers?

No.

3. Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?

No preference.

4. Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?

Lean more towards Trad songs that tell stories, a few present day writers manage to do this, most do not.

5. What about electric folk?

Nope, not as long as my butt points downwards.


6. Dance music, social or ritual?

Don't dance, don't go to dances so never listen to it.


08 Jan 20 - 05:06 AM (#4026952)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

I may also be unusual on the Mudcat in that I'm not a big fan of Irish sessions. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some of the music well enough but I like more English and Scottish tunes and, to a certain extent, East European music. Could be in the genes I suppose but while I do have a little Irish in me, I have no Scottish blood at all. Yet I love the music. And the whisky but that's another story:-) The best session I ever heard (I don't join in. Not good enough) was at the Peveril of the Peak in Manchester where the Music was from all over the world. A sadly departed friend of mine, John Snelson (Pied Piper on here) had a hand in that one. Just out of interest.


08 Jan 20 - 07:26 AM (#4026976)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Mrrzy

I am still unclear on source singer but hey ho.


08 Jan 20 - 07:26 AM (#4026977)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: The Sandman

Dave , the problem with some irish sessions is that sometimes the musicians do not think about varying the rythyms so the listener can be given reel after reel instead of a slip jig, a slide, ahornpipe, a reel, a polka,


08 Jan 20 - 08:03 AM (#4026981)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

That could be it, Dick. I know I like East European music because it is what I grew up with. Not sure why I like Scottish music so much. I like English dance music because I used to dance both socially and, occasionaly, Morris. Can't do Morris now with my knees but did manage a good few dances at a ceilidh last year -)


08 Jan 20 - 09:33 AM (#4027006)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe Offer

Hi, PFR, source singers are people who are sources of traditional songs. They learned songs through tradition instead of through commercial processes. They are the ones folk song collectors went to, to collect early field recordings.


08 Jan 20 - 09:41 AM (#4027010)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Well I've played hundreds of Irish tunes in pubs over the decades, almost all down yer in Cornwall, but I'm not sure that any of those occasions would have qualified as an Irish session. I did go to Dublin once, and went to (and played in) the Cobblestone. The sessions in there were fast, and had their complements of strummers and a dreaded bodhran or two, and admittedly all the tunes were Irish. Quality was high, but were they true sessions or paid gigs?? Another night I went to Hughes' Bar. The session in there was fiddles, flutes and Gay McKeon on the pipes :-) The pace was always very moderate. No drummers, no strummers, no pluckers. Not much conversation or drinking either, just a bunch of excellent players enjoying themselves and playing just for themselves. The next night I went to a pub just round the corner from the Auld Triangle pub, a long way up the hill from the centre of Dublin, I can't remember its name, invited to a session run by a lovely lady called Marion McEvoy. There was a bit of strumming and drumming but it was all in very good taste and I was cordially invited to sit in. Was that a true session? When we played in pubs down the years we always attracted extra customers (we wouldn't have got all that free beer otherwise!), but there was a fair smattering of songs and non-Irish tunes mixed in with the diddley. One aspect that always kept me going was my determination to play just for ourselves and not try to pretend we were putting on some kind of performance for the pub customers. It's great when people enjoy what we do, a bonus I'd say, and there's nowt wrong with the odd singalong song, but generally we just played for each other. I suppose that the big English cities may have sessions that are closer to qualifying as Irish sessions. The past tense signifies that my hearing has let me down enough by now to confine my noodling to my kitchen.


08 Jan 20 - 11:06 AM (#4027024)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Judging by this thread, and I know it is not a proper sample, there seem to be more people that enjoy source singers than not. While I do get some enjoyment out of listening to the recordings, I enjoy other forms a lot more. I do not really want to spend time on one thing where I can get more pleasure out of another. I don't think that means that I am not a "folky". I still love many other aspects of folk and will continue to benefit from and contribute to folk music for as long as I am able. I'll just accept that I'm in a minority and stop letting it bother me :-)


08 Jan 20 - 11:12 AM (#4027026)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

BTW, anyone know where JoeG is? I think he would enjoy contributing to this thread and I would like his views.


08 Jan 20 - 11:58 AM (#4027031)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Nick

Rumour (or Big brother) has it he was last seen in the Half Moon Inn in Durham about 1 hour ago


08 Jan 20 - 12:00 PM (#4027032)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Not surprised he hasn't posted then. Enjoying himself too much :-)


08 Jan 20 - 12:10 PM (#4027035)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: meself

DTG: You sound rather apologetic and defensive about your tastes - I don't know why. You asked people what they like and they told you; they didn't attack you. You may still proudly call yourself a "folky" ... !


08 Jan 20 - 01:06 PM (#4027066)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Thanks meself but I wasn't being apologetic or defensive - honest! Sorry if I have that impression. I was just hoping to show what a broad church folk music is and that Whatever part of it you like is OK.


08 Jan 20 - 05:56 PM (#4027142)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G

There I was trying to go incognito and Nick blew my cover ;-) My thoughts will be with you when I am back at the PC. Genuinely touched that you are interested in my enthusiasms Dave :-)


08 Jan 20 - 06:20 PM (#4027154)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor

Michael Hedges, of course.


08 Jan 20 - 06:21 PM (#4027156)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor

whoops, wrong thread.


08 Jan 20 - 06:28 PM (#4027159)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Stop beating about the bush, gilly...


08 Jan 20 - 07:00 PM (#4027166)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor

Paintbrush me red


10 Jan 20 - 11:06 AM (#4027518)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: leeneia

Two types of folk music I dislike:

parodies - often mean-spirited and dirty-minded. I have stopped looking at parody threads

supposed lyrics to dance tunes which were merely quick and dirty mnenomics to help fiddlers recall the tune


12 Jan 20 - 01:07 PM (#4027818)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: punkfolkrocker

oooh.. at least this thread aint closed yet, while I'm still thinking about it's title question...


12 Jan 20 - 01:11 PM (#4027820)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

I'm a big fan of W*lt*r Pa*d*n meself...


12 Jan 20 - 03:37 PM (#4027850)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Nick

Walter Panda. I’m a big fan meself.


12 Jan 20 - 05:06 PM (#4027872)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham

At the risk of offending the Interplanetary Folksong Society I hate Martian folk music.


12 Jan 20 - 06:48 PM (#4027894)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: RTim

I also dislike Parodies...and Rounds...

But love many types of Folk Music incl. European....

Tim Radford


12 Jan 20 - 07:04 PM (#4027901)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST

The proper Mudcat answer is "all types" because any that I don't like don't qualify as folk music. Or did I entirely misunderstand the arguements in the "state of folk music" thread?


12 Jan 20 - 08:14 PM (#4027904)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G

Naughty!


12 Jan 20 - 08:57 PM (#4027908)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

The deletion neurotic seems to have struck...


13 Jan 20 - 01:26 PM (#4028063)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G

Finally got some time at the PC to respond to this!

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?

No - have heard the Coppers & Joseph Taylor singing Brigg Fair and that's about it - though I do recognise their importance and understand why others find them of interest or even enjoy them

Do you prefer revival and present day singers?

Yes - my way into folk music was largely due to people like Johnny Handle, Jez Lowe & Ged Foley, the singers at the Nursery Folk club then folk rock - Steeleye and Five Hand Reel were the earliest - I didn't really get to know Fairport until much later

Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?

Generally accompanied but very good unaccompanied singing can be a joy. I'm thinking particularly about Coope, Boyes and Simpson (together and individually) and a Yorkshire based, mostly unaccompanied female trio Yan Tan Tether who perform an interesting arrange of material including Bulgarian songs which I love

Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?

Both but with far more emphasis on contemporary. When I listen to traditional I prefer the arrangements to be interesting - eg Jim Moray, Jon Boden & Remnant Kings, Bellowhead. I prefer songs that have a direct relevance to the current day or recent past - though I love mining songs, many sailing songs and other industrial songs. I am not so keen on rural folk songs. Favourite contemporary songwriters not already mentioned here include John Tams (a folk God in my eyes!), Robb Johnson, Reg Meuross, Joe Solo, Grace Petrie, Nick Hall & Michelle Plum, Joseph Porter of Blyth Power (a genius with lyrics!) - there are so many more!

What about electric folk?

Oh yes in all its forms from crusty folk rock to modern electronica - eg Broadcaster, Jim Moray again, Runrig (once my favourite bands and still up there - got their final concert DVD for Christmas, Skippinish - again so many more!

Dance music, social or ritual?

Used to adore ceilidhs but my other half isn't up to them now and I'm getting that way. Blowzabella are a candidate for my all time favourite band along with Tickled Pink. Still love the music. Used to be in a morris team in my late teens but I was always going up when everyone else was going down so I didn't follow it through to adulthood once I moved away from home. Still enjoy the music though

As well as British and Irish folk I particularly enjoy music from around the world with the exception of the Far East (for the want of a better term). Not overly keen on South Asian music either but there are of course exceptions - Ragu Dixit is tremendous!

Enough for now - I've missed lots of people I love but gives you an idea. No suprises in there I suspect! :-)


13 Jan 20 - 01:34 PM (#4028067)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Thanks Joe. I think we have very similar tastes!

I'm always up for something new though and off to see a trio I know nothing about tonight - Setanta. If Brendan will let me out of the front door!


13 Jan 20 - 02:04 PM (#4028082)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G

Have a good night. I don't know them either. Looking forward to the report back


14 Jan 20 - 03:32 AM (#4028201)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

They were very good. Primarily Irish stuff. Both traditional and contemporary. Not all to my taste but all performed skilfully and with obvious enjoyment. I need to look up one particular song, the blue rose, as it stood out for me. I also need to check if Bobby Sands "Back home in Derry" is the same tune as Gordon Lightfoot's "The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald".


14 Jan 20 - 04:07 AM (#4028208)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Just found it. The Bright Blue Rose. Performed by many but the Mary Black version is very good indeed.

And, yes, the tune for Sands' Derry song was based on Lightfoot's.


14 Jan 20 - 04:34 AM (#4028212)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G

Glad you enjoyed them


14 Jan 20 - 06:18 AM (#4028228)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Bright Blue Rose was written by Jimmy McCarthy. There's a treasurable version of the song sung by Christy Moore and Jimmy on Youtube. I always have trouble finding it. Jimmy also wrote Ride On, Mystic Lipstick, Missing you and No Frontiers, among others. He has a way with words that I really like. I hope Jack isn't reading this. ;-).


14 Jan 20 - 06:42 AM (#4028234)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Bobby Sands also wrote McIlhatton, another great song adopted by Christy.


14 Jan 20 - 10:20 AM (#4028278)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Yebbut is it folk? :-0


14 Jan 20 - 10:49 AM (#4028284)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Bobby Sands died on the day my youngest son was born BTW. We kept a copy of the Daily Mirror from that date for years. No idea what became of it.


14 Jan 20 - 09:20 PM (#4028391)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Is Christy folk? Well that's a tough one (so tough that I tend to care not a jot...). He's one of those who you could, if you really wanted to, regard as an offshoot from the offshoot that was Planxty....

I've seen Christy live four times, usually travelling hundreds of miles to see him. Christy live, uniquely among all other performers, is a totally different animal to the bloke you hear on most of his CDs ( a lot of which, to me, simply don't capture the man at all...). Go and see him live if you can. He sings Woody songs, Shane songs, Jimmy McCarthy songs, his own songs and lots of other songs. A man who sings Pair of Brown Eyes, Fairytale, Missing you, Bright Blue Rose, Ride On.... That'll do me!


14 Jan 20 - 10:03 PM (#4028393)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

By the way, if Joe Offer happens to be reading this, the same Joe Offer who accused me of having nothing to say about music (he closed the thread before I could reply), I've posted 120 times above the line in the last calendar month. I don't know an awful lot about folk song, though I have many CDs of that genre, as my main interest is in the harmonica and in traditional Irish instrumental music, somewhat tangential issues on Mudcat. But I've played in pub sessions for over twenty years, just about once a week minimum, and strutted my Irish stuff at gigs for many a wedding and St Pat's nights and on many other occasions. I've made a CD and have penned over forty articles for Harmonica World, the mag of the National Harmonica League. I'm on YouTube and have submitted many a tune to the NHL, both scores and performances. My credentials are up there with anybody else's here. Just thought I'd mention it. You're welcome to check me out, Joe...

I love Nic Jones too.... :-)


14 Jan 20 - 10:45 PM (#4028397)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Karen Impola

Getting back to the questions at the top of the thread (hi, I'm new, by the way - been reading here for ages, maybe posted once or twice as a guest)

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?

Yes, but I think it's an acquired taste. I was initially drawn in by the more polished revival singers. I find that once I fall in love with a song or a tune or a style of music, I want to trace it back as far into the past as the history of recording technology permits.

Do you prefer revival and present day singers?

Like I said, they are the gateway drug. I probably spend more time listening to them than to source singers, but that's mainly because there are more of them around.

Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?

Yes.

Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?

Both, although I prefer songwriters who are rooted in traditional styles to ones who aren't.

What about electric folk?

Of course! I imprinted on Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span at a young age. How could I not like it?

Dance music, social or ritual?

I like dance tunes a lot, even when I'm not dancing to them.


15 Jan 20 - 03:47 AM (#4028409)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham

You have all the credentials, Steve, but why the antagonism and aggression?

Stevie G


15 Jan 20 - 03:56 AM (#4028411)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Can we keep this thread on track please Steve and Steve?


15 Jan 20 - 04:38 AM (#4028420)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Sure, Dave. Though I thought that what I posted gave a good flavour of my musical predilections, which is what the thread is about. Just in case anyone thought I was nowt but a political nutter! Point taken, howsumever...


15 Jan 20 - 04:41 AM (#4028421)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Thanks Steve and...

100!


15 Jan 20 - 05:45 AM (#4028432)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Not really a "type" of music, but an aspect of "our genre" that I dislike, is what I could misguidedly call unwarranted virtuosity. That's not the same thing as easy felicity, emanating from skill, a deep understanding of the music and the mastery of the instrument which makes the music sound amazing (and the lack of it :-( wot makes me sound positively clunky at times...) I can't listen to stuff that is making the instrument the point of the thing, rather than the music. I find that a lot of the young bucks especially are so anxious to show us how good they are on their fiddles/flutes/whistles, etc., that they can't resist playing flashily and/or with excessive speed. If you're playing a piece of Paganini, well you're supposed to be showing your virtuosity. But when it's applied to some jigs or reels I'm not happy. Know what I mean?


15 Jan 20 - 06:23 AM (#4028435)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

I do know what you mean. I get a bit marked when I hear a session get hijacked by someone who just wants to show off.


15 Jan 20 - 06:49 AM (#4028442)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Booden Gad

Irish tune players with no awareness of the lack of rhythm and interest in their phrasing, is a slight bleh of mine, I'd never comment just agree that they're great. No problem if they understand they have an issue though.
    The Like question is harder as there's so much past and present it would take some lengthy listing. Cormac Begley (concertina) is one of the current younger players who imo is showing the way. Lots to like as lots of great tune players around both young and old, happy days for us enthusiasts.


15 Jan 20 - 09:20 AM (#4028463)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly

Inordinate speed seems to be a serious affliction of younger Irish players, or should I clarify- players of Irish music.

Younger players become older players, and arhythmic speed playing is becoming the norm. Many young players have never played for dancing, even 'Shoe the Donkey' or the 'Stack of Barley'and HERE LIES RHYTHM!!

However, it is true that some of the classic Irish players like Coleman, Morrison etc didn't hang about either, although their rhythm was always there.

I think there is a demand for fast, exciting music in many musical contexts, and maybe some of the 'tutors' and alleged experts (often with short apprenticeships in the music) are influenced by a parallel interest & taste for current genres of madcap pop music- hardly surprising?
Such tutors have a responsibility to emphasise the VARIETY of rhythms which make up Irish music, and make a point of listening to some more classic sources - e.g. Martin Byrnes, Bobby Gardiner, Leo Rowsome rather than globe-trotting 'Celtic' folk/rock bands who can remain nameless- no intention of starting a furore!   all IMHO of course


15 Jan 20 - 11:42 AM (#4028484)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

I think the Morrisons and Colemans quite often went hell for leather because they were trying to fit their sets on to four-minute sides of 78s.


15 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM (#4028494)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G

Steve - a friend of mine coined the term (well I think he did!) 'Mindless virtuosity' when we were watching a once famous (in folk circles!) trio many years ago!


15 Jan 20 - 01:13 PM (#4028496)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly

Some truth in this, illustrated by the strange keys which were sometimes the result of '78' technicians speeding things up to fit the disc- four minutes was the exception rather than the rule- 3 minutes was and still is the length of a standard track/tune/disc


15 Jan 20 - 01:49 PM (#4028503)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Booden Gad

I'm not too bothered by the speed as long as there is still clarity and rhythm. Can be fast,slow leisurely,or whatever as long as it sits right still, if you know what i mean. As i said we are lucky as plenty of fine players around.
    Telling the young fit and able not to play too fast is pointless when they have the chops, imo. Most mellow a bit as they age I'd imagine. Hurts my wrists and fingers watching some of them.


15 Jan 20 - 01:57 PM (#4028505)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G

Love fast music as long as it still has feeling (which is hard to define you just know it when you hear it!)


15 Jan 20 - 04:44 PM (#4028513)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Chops is one thing. Getting under the skin of the music is entirely another. I don't condemn all fast playing and I'd never insist that everything on a CD should be played at dance speed. A great example of a CD with a lot of fast playing that still sounds great (at least to my ear) is Barking Mad by Four Men and a Dog.


15 Jan 20 - 04:47 PM (#4028515)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G

Yeah they were amazing!


15 Jan 20 - 04:52 PM (#4028516)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham

>>>>>>I get a bit marked when I hear a session get hijacked by someone who just wants to show off.<<<<<<<

Spot on, Dave, but it doesn't just happen in Irish sessions. I have been known to speak up on odd occasions as you can imagine. Even worse when it's a mixed session and there are relative beginners trying to get to grips. To compound things this one I'm thinking of used to arrive late at session and then play all the tunes that had already been played at normal speed, at twice the speed.


15 Jan 20 - 06:58 PM (#4028540)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

By the way, Steve, grrr. "Stevie G" is it now. Well you know that there is only one Stevie G, he dressed in red and his surname is Gerrard... I'm thinking you did that on purpose...


16 Jan 20 - 04:54 AM (#4028583)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,kenny

A world famous jazz musician once despaired of some of the younger generation of players as playing "fast nothing". I hear far too much of that in Scotland these days. I don't condemn it. I just ignore it.


16 Jan 20 - 05:17 AM (#4028585)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly

This is about the music we like & dislike- if it is me who is being accused of 'showing off', you need to be more specific.
I thought I was fairly clear that I have a dislike of arhythmic Irish music as that was the subject of discussion- this is normally fast music and Irish music seems to be especially afflicted- maybe Scottish too, says Kenny, but I wouldn't know?

However, slow airs can be similarly mangled by a lack of understanding of the music & I gave examples of mature musicians to listen to- there are plenty more....


16 Jan 20 - 09:15 AM (#4028603)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

I certainly wasn't alluding to you, Crumbly. I don't even know who you are! There are some who enjoy the 100mph sessions but I personally don't. I agree with you about the rhythm mainly but there are certain tunes and songs which do change rhythm - Princess Royal for instance - where it does work.


16 Jan 20 - 11:16 AM (#4028621)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G

One important musician I forgot to mention in my 'likes' is the late Martyn Bennett - just been reminded by a track of his being played on the BBC Folk Programme which I'm catching up with. He created some of the most interesting, exciting and innovative interpretations of folk song I've ever heard - his album Grit is astonishing!

Certainly not one for the folk purists but highly recommnded for open minded folkies who have not heard his work yet


16 Jan 20 - 12:36 PM (#4028631)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly

NO i wasn't referring to your post, dave...


16 Jan 20 - 12:51 PM (#4028634)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Ah, Ok. Thanks for the clarification Crumbly.


16 Jan 20 - 03:08 PM (#4028656)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham

I remember one match at the KC Stadium where Stevie G was made to look quite ordinary, but I concede that didn't happen very often.


16 Jan 20 - 03:23 PM (#4028659)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham

Dave,
Congratulations on getting the 100 in on your own thread!


17 Jan 20 - 10:57 AM (#4028731)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST

not as many as Ben Stokes today.....


19 Jan 20 - 08:49 AM (#4029027)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

On a programme where famous folks are taken back to the holiday spots of their childhood (Holiday of my Lifetime, ITV), I just heard Daniel O'Donnell sing unaccompanied, in a pub where he got his first break, about County Donegal.

That was a great piece of Irish culture but then they showed a clip of him backed by the sounds of American country which is a great shame, in my opinion.

I checked Wiki and it says his "music has been described as a mix of country and Irish folk,"...why not just stick to the latter which, as I say, he does very well..?! More related thoughts here.


19 Jan 20 - 09:13 AM (#4029032)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Daniel O'Donnell and the word "culture" do not belong in the same sentence/paragraph/chapter/book/bookshelf/library.


19 Jan 20 - 09:30 AM (#4029033)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

Steve - unaccompanied singing is very much a part of traditional Irish culture and, if you use ITV's hub to check the abovementioned programme, I think you will agree he did that very well.

When I turned up on the comp days/Saturdays of folk festivals in Durham and Northumberland a few years ago, I heard some very good unaccompanied singers there, also - especially among the females, frankly.


19 Jan 20 - 09:39 AM (#4029035)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

'unaccompanied singing is very much a part of traditional Irish culture'

Which does not, ofcourse, mean any unaccompanied singing becomes 'traditional' or even 'folk' (which in Ireland implies different things).

DOD, is, well, a successful entertainer and celebrity. If you're into that sort of thing.


19 Jan 20 - 11:38 AM (#4029046)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly

This an opportunity not to be missed for DOD jokes....


19 Jan 20 - 11:54 AM (#4029050)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

This type? :

Daniel : a gas man


19 Jan 20 - 01:11 PM (#4029059)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

As Dirty Harry said, Peter, "a man's got to know his limitations"...in DOD's case, leaving faulty boilers (gas, that is) to registered installers and American culture to Americans.


19 Jan 20 - 01:16 PM (#4029060)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

He can sing whatever he likes and take his inspiration wherever he likes. He is extremely popular doing what he does. And not everybody has to like it.


19 Jan 20 - 07:10 PM (#4029133)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Please include me in not everybody.


20 Jan 20 - 02:34 PM (#4029242)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

You mean you wouldn't buy a used car of DOD, have him recommend a plumber and/or listen to his best sean-nós, Steve?!


20 Jan 20 - 09:41 PM (#4029334)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

I could suggest that you take some time to listen to some real sean-nos.


21 Jan 20 - 12:45 PM (#4029463)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

I've heard enough, Steve, to know that the unaccompanied singing mentioned above was not in the old style/sean-nós...but I'm also sure DOD would know of it and has probably had a go at it.


21 Jan 20 - 12:59 PM (#4029467)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Shall we move swiftly on?


21 Jan 20 - 01:21 PM (#4029475)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST

but why no jokes?


21 Jan 20 - 01:47 PM (#4029483)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

The way the thread has just turned is amusing in itself...


21 Jan 20 - 01:48 PM (#4029484)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

Why did DOD lean toward American country music?


21 Jan 20 - 02:01 PM (#4029487)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,P

He is an easy listening jobbing singer. It's popular, it suits him, why wouldn't he? His audiences laps it up.


21 Jan 20 - 02:05 PM (#4029488)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

No no, Guest P - as a youngster, he only caught the last 2 words when he overheard a local shepherd exclaim: "Donegal is God's country!"


21 Jan 20 - 02:08 PM (#4029490)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Peter Laban

Sorry, previous was by me and it left before I finished it.

This is the stuff DOD does :

Opry le Daniel

And while we're there, this is solid traditional music :

Sé Mo Laoch

And this is Sean Nos:

Songs of Granite

I can't guarantee you can see any or all of it outside Ireland. It's all there for now anyway.


23 Jan 20 - 04:58 AM (#4029726)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST

folkies don't like DOD because he knows his audience & gives them what they want- it may be 99pc schmaltz but heyho that's what the folk (in the broad sense) seem to want


23 Jan 20 - 05:50 AM (#4029733)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Most of the time I like to be challenged by music. Giving people what they want isn't always a good thing. I can think of public beheadings, brexit and Big Macs...


Don't discuss... :-)


23 Jan 20 - 05:56 AM (#4029734)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

Is this the “folk snobbery” thread ? sounds like it .


23 Jan 20 - 06:29 AM (#4029736)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

No!


23 Jan 20 - 07:15 AM (#4029750)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

If you are from Liverpool Guest HiLo, please don't do what Tommy did!


23 Jan 20 - 08:22 AM (#4029760)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?

No. I don't enjoy listening to that stuff. I may listen to it for research only, words or tune. Source musicians on the other hand can be good to listen to for their own sake (whether they are singing or not).

Do you prefer revival and present day singers?

Yes.

Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?

Accompanied, definitely .... that's not to say I never enjoy hearing or singing uninstrumented song, but solo or unison stuff is so so often uninteresting tortuous, makes me miserable and angry, that it's easier just to skip it all.

Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?

I like a lot of folk songs, listening and playing. And I like a lot of other songs. Unfortunately I often find that my idea of what "original songs written in the folk tradition" are does not align with the ideas of people who usually say that phrase.

Like one poster above, I really hate all parody songs. All of them. And on a related but different note I am not that into original comedy songs either.


What about electric folk?

Yes I can like it, but I like it because it is good, not because it is electric. For example, definitely far and away my favourite recording of Wild Mountain Thyme is the one from the Scotland advert off the telly. And I like some folk song renditions that are a lot more hardcore and distant from traditional renditions than that. But equally there are a lot of experimental versions of folk music that are just painful for me to listen to.

Also I can't listen to the older electric stuff a lot of folkies seem to like (of course I mean fairport conventian and steeleye span, about as relevant to me as the beatles, which is to say completely irrelevant).

Dance music, social or ritual?

Social dance music: yes to occasionally doing all or any of listening, playing, dancing. Ritual: never.


24 Jan 20 - 05:12 PM (#4029998)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Hochma Gandhi

Anything by Eddi Reader - especially tomorrow night.


24 Jan 20 - 06:35 PM (#4030010)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

That's the spirit, Hochma!


25 Jan 20 - 03:35 AM (#4030069)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: The Sandman

WHEN I was booked at 2019 chippenham folk festival I was impressed with JACK RUTTER. and Nick Dow


25 Jan 20 - 06:11 AM (#4030089)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jack Campin

Eddi Reader: somebody who loves Scottish traditional songs so much she goes to the effort of singing them to country music despite having the disability of only being able to sing MOR pop covers.

Repulsive mediocrity.


25 Jan 20 - 11:59 AM (#4030136)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,patriot

and she's worshipped as the definitive performer of Burns' material- sounds like an engaging lass when interviewed, but good to know someone else thinks her singing is crap


25 Jan 20 - 12:34 PM (#4030142)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

She seems like one of those very pushy types who get to the top at the expense of more quietly competent folks.


25 Jan 20 - 01:29 PM (#4030159)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Hochma Gandhi

I just noticed that I never actually said whether hers was music I liked or disliked - there were 2 options in the thread heading and it is interesting that everyone has assumed "dislike", and not "like".
I will give her credit for 1 Burns song she has recorded which I did like - "Welcome, Willie Stewart", but the rest, no thanks - it was indeed "dislike".


26 Jan 20 - 05:37 AM (#4030238)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST

Her schmaltzy style of singing reminds me a bit of Karen Carpenter- she was worshipped too!


26 Jan 20 - 06:22 AM (#4030240)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

I quite like Eddi Reader. Not sure if she is a folk artist or a pop artist singing some folk songs though.


26 Jan 20 - 06:34 AM (#4030243)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jack Campin

Failed popster rebuilding a career out of folkies' lower expectations.

Siobhan Miller is the same generation and very much better.


26 Jan 20 - 06:59 AM (#4030247)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton

In defence of "Big Edna" she has a heart as big as the city and she sings as she feels, listening to her live performances is a trip back to what revival folk music felt like. It may not suit the mafia but no one can say that her interpretation is contrived......she is an exceptional performer who will be listened to and appreciated long after the "academic folkies" are consigned to the bin. She is also a funny and really friendly person.


26 Jan 20 - 08:46 AM (#4030264)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,patriot

That's all fine, akenton, am sure her concerts are fine & she sounds knowledgeable & engaging, with many other virtues. No-one's attacking her personally, and I'm sure her live performances echo on stage what she picked up in the folk clubs.
It's just that the media have decided she is the true voice of Burns, even though her style owes more to MOR & country- it just demonstrates the lack of knowledge of the media in the context of Burns' songs & music.
I have just heard a clip of her doing 'My love is like a red, red rose' and it was so syrupy I couldn't listen to it.
Do we want the world to think that her Scottish pedigree guarantees s that this is the authentic style of the great man?

There are so many fine singers in Scotland, whose style is much more in sympathy with the Scottish song tradition- you're right, Jack, Siobhan Miller is one and she's no 'academic folkie'- but there are many others who never get a look in!!

ps please count Siobhan as a 'like' !!


26 Jan 20 - 09:50 AM (#4030276)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Reinhard

Siobhan Miller is the same generation

Eddi Reader is 60 years old. I would guess Siobhan is in her early 30s.


26 Jan 20 - 10:50 AM (#4030283)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?

Yes

Do you prefer revival and present day singers?

No, with few exceptions

Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?

I usually prefer unaccompanied. Accompanied is OK if done well, i.e. a) if it doesn't become more important than the singing and b) so long as it is not just guitar struffing.

Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?

Mainly traditional but there are a few good comtemporary songs.

What about electric folk?

Definitely, so long as it is well done.


Dance music, social or ritual?

Social dance music: Again, so long as it is well done, fine. I like Morris music but prefer it when it is not melodeon-heavy. Pipe and tabor is good.

Tradsinger


26 Jan 20 - 12:22 PM (#4030298)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton

Bonzo has a point, and I don't know if any of the really know the authentic voice of Scotland. For example the finest singer of Scots song was the late Kenneth McKellar, vilified in folk circles as long as I can remember and the only real writer of scots song left is Davie Robertson who's writing stands comparison with Burns in modern terms. On the subject of Burns who's work I love, you would do well to study some of his misogyny and his profanity towards women before preaching your sermons to Bonzo…..seems to me that he knows more about the real warts and all Robert Burns than the PC members of this forum. Most of Burns great songs were produced for performance in a formal setting, what makes those who reside here entitled to promote the "proper" manner of performance?


26 Jan 20 - 12:27 PM (#4030300)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

Without understanding any of the words, I enjoy listening to Scottish Gaelic singers and musicians, because the quality is always so good.


26 Jan 20 - 12:31 PM (#4030301)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton

On Scots female singers, I can only think of a handful and Mss Miller or Mss Polwart are not among them, the young "folk" crowd all sound identical......much as described by Bonzo. Marie Campbell and the dear late Gordeanna Mcculloch had the authentic sound.


26 Jan 20 - 12:35 PM (#4030302)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton

Walkabout....this area was partially Gaelic speaking when I was a boy, the music and song were terrific it sprang directly from the community.
Today Gaelic song is lifeless...there is no spirit in the young musicians......just another branch of the industry I'm afraid.


26 Jan 20 - 12:42 PM (#4030304)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

I wouldn't call Eddi a failed popster, Jack. She did rather well solo and with Fairground attraction and the Waterboys. She topped single and album charts and earned 3 Brit awards. She certainly earned enough to enable her to pursue her folk song hobby with no financial worries. If that is failing, I'd take it :-)

Ake. Is this the misogynistic Robert Burns you are talking about? I thought you would have known your own national poet better.


26 Jan 20 - 12:42 PM (#4030305)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

I'm going by BBC Alba and Radio Gael, Akenaton...and, at the start of her career, hearing Julie Fowlis at the Sage Gateshead.


26 Jan 20 - 01:04 PM (#4030311)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton

Yes Walkabout, Alba is forever promoting these you groups and singers, it is virtually impossible to tell one from the other and all sound stilted, they do not have the verve of the Irish. It was all so different in the Ceilidh Days.
Dave , don't even try to pass off an opinion piece in the PC Herald as fact.....You know as much about Burns as my arse does about snipe shooting. Burns was a complicated character who would never have supported the social mores of today, he loved humanity, but more he loved nature the sweetness and the cruelty, he also wrote for a living and often gave his patrons what they asked for......no modern "scruples" for Robbie.
Walkabout …..try a listen to Daori Farrell and Four Winds in a public setting. Daori is a fairly young performer who has the spirit in him.


26 Jan 20 - 01:11 PM (#4030314)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton

Four Winds


26 Jan 20 - 01:22 PM (#4030316)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

Thanks, Akenaton, I agree that is good Irish music and certainly wouldn't mind being in a pub with a pint of Guinness and that mob playing...and, if there were no Irish dancers there, perhaps glancing up at a tv screen to catch some Gaelic football...


26 Jan 20 - 01:23 PM (#4030318)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Hmmmm. Who should we believe? Pauline Gray, a university researcher who specialises in Robert Burns and gives lectures on the subject, writing in a respected Scottish publicaton, or a self-proclaimed uneducated bigot writing in an obscure folk music forum? Tough one...


26 Jan 20 - 01:29 PM (#4030322)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton

Definitely the "uneducated bigot", you may learn something to broaden your mind, but I wont hold my breath.


26 Jan 20 - 01:34 PM (#4030325)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

It wasn't me that proudly proclaimed a lack of education and tarred all university graduates as lacking sense, Ake.


26 Jan 20 - 01:44 PM (#4030327)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

I find you comments with regard to Ake, hateful and offensive Dave.
"uneducated bigot" ? What a nasty wee man you can be at times.
As for Burns, I have read a fair amount, I would not align him in any way with a "gender equality" movement..he was a man of his time, no more, no less.
One thing I do know is that some University "educated" researchers are driven more by ideology than by facts. I am not saying that this is the case here, however, one should be somewhast skeptical these days and not fall into the intellectual trap of believing that "academics" are infallible.


26 Jan 20 - 02:12 PM (#4030334)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Hilo. Ake has very proudly proclaimed his lack of education many times on this very forum. That is the uneducated bit. He also classes people with a university education as lacking in common sense. That is stereotyping and is the primary trait of bigotry. You would do well to educate yourself with facts before spouting forth.

But this is all by the way. This thread is about different types of folk music. I will not let it become a platform for those who cannot or will not post below the line, where BS belongs. Continuing on this tack will result in thread closure so I will say no more on the subject. I suggest you and others stick to the topic.


26 Jan 20 - 02:16 PM (#4030337)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

No Dave, it is Not sterotyping, it is, in some cases, an accurate observation. Calling people uneducated bigots is not what I call sticking to the topic..perhaps you should reserve your bullying for below the line Dave.


26 Jan 20 - 02:36 PM (#4030348)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle

Its not actually compulsory for us to all have the same perspective on folk music.

I suppose resentment arises when we feel - a different view gets more of the limelight than our view.

I don't know what the answer is. Probably there isn't one.

I remember on Monkey World, the late Jim Cronin made this comment when a group of monkeys killed the old and past it leader of the troupe. 'There are no bad guys here - its just the way monkeys carry on.'

and folk music fans, maybe.


26 Jan 20 - 02:48 PM (#4030350)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton

:0) Ah, always the voice of reason Al. Thanks Hilo, appreciated.


26 Jan 20 - 03:11 PM (#4030358)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Hopefully that is it but if those who cannot post below the line continue in this way on this thread could be closed. That would be a pity so please stop now.


26 Jan 20 - 04:03 PM (#4030380)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Hochma Gandhi

"those who cannot post below the line.... " Meaning what ? What makes you so superior ?


26 Jan 20 - 05:10 PM (#4030389)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

I can post below the line because I am signed in. If you are not a member you cannot sign in. Some people chose not to be members. Fine, but they cannot post below the line and accept that. Some people have had membership revoked so they try to bring BS up here. Nothing to do with superiority. Everything to do with keeping BS out of the music section. Anyone can become a member. Just see the FAQ thread. Seemples.


26 Jan 20 - 05:11 PM (#4030390)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

More poison contributed by unsigned-in people. I have tried really hard to persuade the mods that no-one should post to this forum unless they are signed in and can be identified by mods. The dirtiest word on this forum is "guest." Still, don't listen to me...


26 Jan 20 - 05:11 PM (#4030391)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Now, can we stop the BS or continue below the line?


26 Jan 20 - 06:04 PM (#4030403)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton

Hmm It's debatable if Burns is folk at all. Most of the big songs were produced for aristocratic patrons, or aristocratic lovers. I think he would be delighted to have his songs covered by as many people as possible and in as many styles, so long as they were popular, especially if like today, they meant money in the writers pocket.
I enjoy the popularising of folk music as long as the performer has a genuine love of what they do, and can transmit enthusiasm for the product to their audience.....didanyone watch the faces of the crowd as Daoiri and Four Winds played.....magic.


26 Jan 20 - 07:04 PM (#4030419)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Hilo

I have not had membership revoked, I choose not to go there because , Dave, people like you choose to bully those who disagree with you. I admit to not being an expert on Burns, but I am not prepared to accept a point of view based on no evidence just because an “academic” said said so. burns was a complicated and multi faceted man, his poetry reflected his time and place. twenty first values do not apply and it is intellectually lazy to. Suggest that they do. my guess is that you do not know much about Burns and have chosenTo belittle someone who may, perhaps know more than you do. above or below the line that is petty and wrong headed,


26 Jan 20 - 08:37 PM (#4030433)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

You can be "bullied" just as much whether you're properly signed in or not, so, basically, don't be such an arse.


26 Jan 20 - 08:44 PM (#4030436)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Stanron

Spoken like a true bully.


26 Jan 20 - 09:11 PM (#4030439)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw

Pattern emerging here, Stanron. You post gratuitous insults but only way after midnight. Now just put that corkscrew down and walk slowly away...


Then go to bed...


26 Jan 20 - 10:00 PM (#4030442)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Stanron

There's a program on BBC Radio 3 at 2 pm on a Sunday called The Early Music Show. Today, or yesterday by now, it featured music by Corelli, Locatelli, Valentini and Pergolesi. I was in heaven. This is what I love to listen to.

I like playing traditional tunes. Particularly I like to play traditional tunes in company.

I can live without listening to other people sing, and experience has suggested that other people reciprocate, but have to admit I just don't get unaccompanied singing. I'm not a farmer, I hate muddy fields and never wanted to follow a plough. It's the music that gets me.

The words, not so much.


27 Jan 20 - 02:58 AM (#4030452)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

Sigh. I promised I would try to steer BS away from this thread but I am weak! New Culpa :-(

HiLo.

1. You will note I said some people chose not to be members. That includes you.
2. Disputing what people state as fact, things like Burns was a misogynist, no matter how robustly is not bullying. It is arguing.
3. I agree that we should not blindly accept the opinion of experts. Nor should we blindly accept the word of someone who is proud of their lack of education. My tendency is to put more credence towards someone who has done their homework.

Now, can we put this to bed? What are your preferences in folk music?


27 Jan 20 - 03:01 AM (#4030453)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

I spotted that auto correct had changed culpa to cuppa but not the change from mea to new.

Mea culpa

I'll have a new cuppa :-)


27 Jan 20 - 09:18 AM (#4030515)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor

I can't say that I like or dislike "types of folk music" but I do tend to sing a lot of songs from America, Canada, Ireland, England and Scotland and play a lot of tunes from those countries along with tunes from Brittany, Sweden, Norway, Brazil and the Caribbean and enjoy listening to music from all cultures especially North Africa, the Middle East, Nepal, Tibet, China and India. Spotify, with all it alleged deficiencies, has really opened up the world of music for me.


27 Jan 20 - 09:40 AM (#4030520)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

Yes, gillymor, I know what you mean about discovering a whole world of music via the internet, things we barely knew about a few short years ago are now available to us. I listen to a lot of music on you tube and have really been enjoying a lot of traditional Arabic music, Bulgarian Choirs, Eastern Orthodox Music, North American "roots" music. We are so lucky to have all of this available to us.
    Is there anything you could suggest to us, something that you especially enjoyed ?


27 Jan 20 - 10:44 AM (#4030526)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor

Well HiLo, this flash mob video got me interested in playing Breton dance music- Zelda and Schottisse a Virmoux and I've since infected others.

Mountain Music Project, which can be found on Spotify, yielded Cluck Old Hen which I clawhammer along with. It was produced by a couple of American musicians who traveled around Nepal and recorded with some of the locals.

Then there is my current favorite fiddle tune, Hamnataing, which was composed by Shetland fiddler Chris Stout.
Hamnataing

This isn't even the tip of the tip of the iceberg.


27 Jan 20 - 12:06 PM (#4030542)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST

I am 76, so therefor well and truly come from the second revival. In those days, as now, folk covers a wide church. Now, I have to say that I had 4 years of very intensive involvement on the scene as an unaccompanied floor singer and then 'married out. Always kept in touch through Folk on Two and Folk on Friday. Now with the net, all regional stations....and Mike Harding.
Getting to the point, although I listen to these folk programmes, I don't really enjoy them. I think it's because it seems to be the sound of the groups that matters and not the song. Girl singers all seem to be influenced by Kate Rusby including The Unthanks who have totally changed their style. I think I'd better stop there because I can see me going on forever.


27 Jan 20 - 12:11 PM (#4030543)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

I,ve just listen to all three, enjoyed very much, especially the first one. Thanx so much.


27 Jan 20 - 12:18 PM (#4030545)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

Sorry about the above, my eyesight is very poor. I meant to mention The Laialy Arabic Music Ensemble. I would provide a link...if I knew how..bit of a Luddite.


27 Jan 20 - 12:40 PM (#4030549)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse

I like being around a good session in a pub; watching the dancing, too, at a festival; hearing a good unaccompanied singer or someone double the melody, perhaps with a bit of ornamentation - from folks who are at least trying to be as loyal to their OWN tradition as possible.


27 Jan 20 - 01:17 PM (#4030561)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor

Music good, chauvinism bad.

Is this who you're referring to, HiLo?-
Layaali Arabic Music Ensemble - Samai Nahawand Rawhi Khammash


Good stuff,I especially like the Oud.
One of my favorites-
Anouar Brahem "Astrakan café"


27 Jan 20 - 01:44 PM (#4030568)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

Yes, Gillymor, that is who I meant. Thank you for the links, I will surely give them a listen.


27 Jan 20 - 09:59 PM (#4030681)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

Have spent the last hour listening Anouar Brahem and it is just stunning, he plays with passionate intensity. Thank you so much for the link. I will be listening to a lot more of this man!


28 Jan 20 - 07:33 AM (#4030737)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jack Campin

If you like Anouar Brahem you will probably like Yurdal Tokcan and Necati Celik - more in a pure classical style, though they both do collaborations.


28 Jan 20 - 07:39 AM (#4030739)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome

This is more like it :-) Well done all!


28 Jan 20 - 07:43 AM (#4030741)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor

YURDAL TOKCAN - Nihavend Saz Semaisi 'DAMLALAR'

Sublime.


28 Jan 20 - 07:49 AM (#4030744)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Nick

That's the sort of folk I like too :)

FOLK I LIKE


28 Jan 20 - 08:18 AM (#4030756)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G

In this company another mention of the beautiful songs and voice of Turkish singer Olcay Bayir seems appropriate :-)

Olcay Bayir


28 Jan 20 - 09:41 AM (#4030770)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jack Campin

In another thread, about Nic Jones:

yes it is understated, but in my opinion it is much better than bob dylan's, in my opinion dylan is a mediocre singer

I didn't have such a definite preference; yes Dylan is technically crap, but he does put SOME emotional expressiveness into his singing, whereas the Nic Jones link that was about combines brilliant guitar technique with a complete emotional blank in the vocals.

Which points up a preference I have always had, for vocals which actually communicate the feeling in the text. This isn't a matter of genre, though in some genres (like rembetiko or Arabic singing) you would just about never find a darkly emotional text set to light boppy shadowless music. Two versions of the same (non-folk) song:

John Renbourn

Theo Bleckmann

Renbourn turns it into party music (probably a children's party in silly hats). Bleckmann sounds like he actually understands what the song is about.


28 Jan 20 - 09:55 AM (#4030777)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

Hi Jack, I like Yurdal Tokcan very much indeed. I went on Amazon to see what cds might be available. The prices were outrageous, over a hundred dollars in some cases. Do you have any idea why that would be ?


28 Jan 20 - 10:17 AM (#4030784)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jack Campin

This doesn't seem too expensive

CD Baby

This (which I have) is even cheaper:

Saray/Hislenis

I've bought most of my Turkish CDs in Istanbul. Kalan Muzik or Golden Horn should be easy enough to deal with remotely. The problem from the UK is finding some way to pay them - UK banks won't let you use their cards to buy stuff from Turkey.


30 Jan 20 - 07:50 AM (#4031138)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Colin Holt

With reference to a response on this thread but earlier in the debate... (I think by Joe Offer)… I've heard many times reference to "writing in the traditional style".... As a songwriter, I'm keen to understand what this means... I've asked the question before but never really received a proper explanation … ?????


30 Jan 20 - 08:13 AM (#4031143)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST

somebody has to define the tradition to do that, Colin! good luck with that!


30 Jan 20 - 08:39 AM (#4031147)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor

Joe G, thanks for the heads up on Olcay Bayir. I'm enamored of the accompaniments as much as I am of her beautiful singing.

DERMANIN OLAYIM - Olcay Bayir & Paul Dwyer


30 Jan 20 - 09:22 AM (#4031156)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G

Yes Olcay works with some wonderful musicians


30 Jan 20 - 10:15 AM (#4031164)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo

Jack, I have an album by Theo Beckman where he does all Kate Bush stuff. I saw him live in New York , he played a lot of Kate..I wasn't sure I liked it. But the more I have listened to it, the more I appreciate the complexity of what he does. He does not work well as background music, but on headphones he really comes through.
I am not trying to Define tradition Colin, but if there is such a thing, I think Stan Rogers comes very close to emulating traditional writers.


30 Jan 20 - 11:52 PM (#4031264)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Karen Impola

Colin, when I think of "songwriting in a traditional style", the first thing that comes to mind is Richard Thompson's "1952 Vincent Black Lightning." It's a proper ballad, because it uses dialog to tell the story, with a minimum of narration.


31 Jan 20 - 05:14 AM (#4031303)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST

OK- tells a story- there's a start- but so does Memphis Tennessee & it's much older


01 Feb 20 - 04:49 PM (#4031625)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Tattie Bogle

This far down the thread, it could be easy to forget what Dave said in his OP, but having re-read it, I'd say my tastes in folk music are fairly close to his.
I do go to a number of events where "source singers" or their followers are the guests, and while I enjoy listening to them, I don't really feel like going out and learning a 40-verse ballad myself.
I do enjoy unusual line-ups, including a "bit of Brass" as in Brass Monkey or Bellowhead, and much further back, was blown away when I first heard the likes of Steeleye Span and Fairport Convention.
What I really don't like is people (usually younger, but not always the case), messing with much-loved songs and putting a thrashy rhythm on them, chopping up the words until they don't make sense any more, warbling all over the place until the original tune disappears (See previous posts re ER!).
Yes, and excessive speed does absolutely nothing for me: I like to be able to identify and enjoy the tune. I just LOVE slow airs: that doesn't mean that every tune should be played at slow air speed, but just let's have a little sensibility and musicality.
Parodies? Love the good ones, which stay nearest to the original words, but not keen on rude or smutty ones.
And please don't preach or tell me who to vote for if you're the esteemed guest: not needed in your between songs speech: and keep the balance between playing/singing and talking right. Some performers just talk too much!


01 Feb 20 - 05:32 PM (#4031641)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Elmore

Types? Types? There's only folk music and non-folk music. Who decides Which it is? I do.


01 Feb 20 - 06:14 PM (#4031649)
Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham

Okay, Colin, I'll have a go.
The early collectors went round recording what they decided to call folk songs, those songs that had been passed down in oral tradition, some dating back to the 16th century right through to the early 19th century. Most were printed on broadsides and had a certain style, narrative, simple structure, simple tunes, few characters, often lots of dialogue, and other characteristics, covered certain subjects. To emulate this in your own song writing would then be 'in the traditional style'. This is very loosely defined by the way.

Some writers write about heritage subjects, some about topical events, some use traditional structures and tunes.

Hope this helps.