Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint To Thread - Forum Home

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Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint

27 Jun 15 - 05:39 PM (#3719400)
Subject: Song Title please ?
From: Deckman

For some stoooopid reason, I can't recall the correct title of the American cowboy song that goes:

"Old Bill Jones, Had two daughters and a song,
One went to Denver, and the other went wrong,

Ride around Little Doggies, Ride around, so Slow ... etc"

Can anyone remind me please? Thanks .... bob(deckman)nelson


27 Jun 15 - 05:44 PM (#3719404)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny

I'll try hitting the right button this time ... and I've only just started on the Jim Beam:

I Ride an Old Paint, lead an old Dan
I'm goin' to Montana to throw the Hoolihan etc etc "I Ride An Old Paint"


27 Jun 15 - 05:51 PM (#3719409)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?
From: Deckman

OF COURSE ... STOOPID ME! I don't often get "blocked" like this, but I sure did today. Does this ever happen to anyone else? bob


27 Jun 15 - 07:27 PM (#3719426)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Joe Offer

I sing it "two daughters and a son" - I think the one-off rhyme is intentional.

-Joe-


27 Jun 15 - 09:14 PM (#3719438)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Deckman

Thanks joe ... and "Hootenanny" ... bob


28 Jun 15 - 04:35 PM (#3719591)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Amos

Deckman:

"I Ride an Old Paint" encourages dogies to ride around, not doggies. Different species altogether.

Woof!

Love,

A


28 Jun 15 - 08:49 PM (#3719634)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Rapparee

You can herd dogies with doggies but not weiner doggies.

"Dogie", n., a scrubby calf that has not wintered well and is anemic from the scant food of the cold weather, also a dogey...from "Dothoighte {fada over the second 'o'], hard to rear, hard to fatten (as a calf); a sickly hard-to-feed calf....

                --Daniel Quinn, How the Irish Invented Slang: the secret language of the crossroads (Oakland, CA: AK Press, 2007), p. 133.


28 Jun 15 - 10:12 PM (#3719642)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Deckman

picky picky picky ...


28 Jun 15 - 10:44 PM (#3719648)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: GUEST,leeneia

I think it's called 'I'm Leaving Cheyenne,' because it goes

I ride old Paint, I lead old Dan,
I'm goin to Montan for to throw the houlihan.
Goodbye, old Paint, I'm leavin Cheyenne.

The houlihan was some kind of throw made with a lasso or lariat.


29 Jun 15 - 01:07 AM (#3719657)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Amos

I think that might be a conflation of two songs, Leenia? The "Riding Old Paint" I know doesn't mention leaving Cheyenne but there is another song by that name. Unless I am just confused, which has occasionally happened.


29 Jun 15 - 03:07 AM (#3719668)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: BrooklynJay

Amos, you are not confused; they are indeed two different songs.

As far as I Ride An Old Paint, I usually sing:

Old Bill Jones had two daughters and a song,
One went to college and the other went wrong.


While I don't think it's literally word-for-word, I believe it's quite similar to what I found in Carl Sandburg's American Songbag. I don't have the book handy at this moment, so I can't speak with absolute certainty.


Jay


29 Jun 15 - 08:16 AM (#3719704)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Lighter

Rap, while your distinction between "dogie" and "doggie" is correct, my professional colleagues regard Cassidy's etymologies as fanciful and often insupportable.

The Irish, of course, did not invent slang.

Like that of "gizmo," the derivation of "dogie" is not known.


29 Jun 15 - 11:25 AM (#3719777)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Rapparee

Nevertheless, they're interesting. Some I can agree with, some I can agree with but only up to a point, and some I can't agree with at all. Word derivation is too complex to be left only to the OED, Webster's, and that herd of ilk, and offered alternatives should be carefully considered before being rejected.

A cognate or an echoic word is always possible, but I'd want to see more evidence besides Cassidy's "it has to be this because: derivation unknown." It's also possible that someone was working with something and said, "Hand me that...that...that...that gizmo over there."

I am not by any stretch an Irish speaker (hopefully I'll know more in three weeks or so) but when I showed Cassidy's book to relatives-by-marriage who ARE native speakers of Irish they said that some of the derivations are certainly possible. And Cassidy is correct: many native Irish speakers did end up in the US, including my wife's grandfather.

(My folks came from either the Netherlands or Germany, depending on who won the war.)


29 Jun 15 - 11:45 AM (#3719779)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: GUEST,leeneia

Oops. I did mix up two songs.

Word derivations, like weather reports and horse races, are a matter of probability. When I consider the number of Irish immigrants to America, I think that the probability of 'dogie', an orphaned calf, being related to 'dothoighte,' a sickly calf, is about 90%.

In my experience, half the letters in an Irish word like 'dothoighte' are silent, so it might be a lot closer to 'dogie' than it looks.


29 Jun 15 - 11:54 AM (#3719783)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: pdq

...note that "I Ride an Old Paint" does not mention Cheyenne:


"I Ride An Old Paint" by Woody Guthrie.

I ride an old Paint and I lead an old Dan
Goin' to Montana to throw the houlihan
Feed them in the coulees, then water in the draw
Their tails are all matted and their backs are all raw

Ride around, little dogies, ride around them slow
For the fiery and snuffy are raring to go

Old Bill Jones had a daughter and a son
Son went to college and his daughter went wrong
His wife got killed in a free-for-all fight
Still he keeps singing from morning 'til night

Ride around, little dogies, ride around them slow
For the fiery and snuffy are raring to go

When I die take my saddle from the wall
Put it onto my pony, lead him out of his stall
Tie my bones on his back and turn our faces to the west
We'll ride the prairies that we love the best

Ride around, little dogies, ride around them slow
For the fiery and snuffy are raring to go

I've worked in a town and I've worked in the farms
All i've got to shows just this muscle in my arm
Blisters on my feet, callous on my hand
And I'm goin' to Montana to throw the houlihan

Ride around little dogies, ride around them slow
for the firey and snuffy are raring to go

Ride around little dogies, ride around them slow
For the firey and snuffy are raring to go


29 Jun 15 - 03:45 PM (#3719867)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Mark Ross

Lighter,
"Dogie" comes from doughguts, an orphaned calf will exhibit a swollen belly from lack of nutrition (not having a mother cow to give it milk).

Mark Ross


29 Jun 15 - 04:06 PM (#3719871)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Lighter

That is certainly possible.

Part of the problem with "dothoighte" is that it doesn't sound like "dogie" at all.

Even with "silent letters."


29 Jun 15 - 04:14 PM (#3719872)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Don Firth

Mark Ross above.

That's what I've read also. A calf, separated from it's mother too early and eating grass before its digestive system can handle it, referred to as a "doughguts" or "dough belly."

I can't swear to it, but I think I read that in one of the Lomax books.

Don Firth


29 Jun 15 - 04:18 PM (#3719875)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Reinhard

To muddle the waters a bit more, on Woody Guthrie's Folkways album Struggle there is a song "Get Alomg Little Doggies", not "Dogies". But I'd guess that's just an error of the editor.


29 Jun 15 - 06:16 PM (#3719896)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: Rapparee

Just to add to the fun:

This spring herding promoted much discussion of stock that had not "weathered well" and of "dogies" and "dobes," these last being calves or yearling cattle that were still scrubby and anemic from the scant food of the cold months.
         --Philip Ashton Rollins, The Cowboy: his characteristics, his equipment, and his part in the development of the West. New York: Skyhorse Publishing, 2007; Scribners, 1924, p. 163.

According to Black Cowboys of the Old West by Tricia Martineau Wagner (Twodot, 2011), the song "Good-bye, Old Paint" was composed by Charley Willis (1847-?), pages 110-124.

I don't find anything on either one in Katie Lee's Ten Thousand Goddam Cattle.


29 Jun 15 - 06:52 PM (#3719902)
Subject: RE: Song Title please ?-I Ride an Old Paint
From: GUEST,gillymor

Goodbye Old Paint Pharis and Jason Romero

I Ride an Old Paint Tim O'Brien