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Performers fees (% or flat fee?)

GUEST,George 03 Mar 07 - 05:17 PM
Jim Lad 27 Feb 07 - 03:28 PM
Jim Lad 27 Feb 07 - 01:24 PM
GUEST 27 Feb 07 - 01:12 PM
Jim Lad 27 Feb 07 - 12:55 PM
GUEST 27 Feb 07 - 12:43 PM
GUEST 27 Feb 07 - 12:41 PM
Jim Lad 27 Feb 07 - 12:35 PM
GUEST 27 Feb 07 - 12:30 PM
Jim Lad 27 Feb 07 - 12:11 PM
GUEST, Not complaining 27 Feb 07 - 12:05 PM
Jim Lad 27 Feb 07 - 09:02 AM
Jim Lad 27 Feb 07 - 08:57 AM
Teribus 27 Feb 07 - 07:07 AM
The Villan 27 Feb 07 - 05:42 AM
Teribus 27 Feb 07 - 05:26 AM
GUEST, Not complaining 27 Feb 07 - 03:31 AM
The Villan 26 Feb 07 - 03:59 PM
The Sandman 26 Feb 07 - 03:44 PM
Jim Lad 26 Feb 07 - 03:39 PM
GUEST 26 Feb 07 - 03:27 PM
GUEST, Knackered 26 Feb 07 - 03:21 PM
The Villan 26 Feb 07 - 02:56 PM
Jim Lad 26 Feb 07 - 02:45 PM
GUEST,guest 2 26 Feb 07 - 02:15 PM
GUEST, Exhausted 26 Feb 07 - 01:48 PM
The Sandman 26 Feb 07 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,guest 2 26 Feb 07 - 08:35 AM
The Sandman 26 Feb 07 - 08:00 AM
The Sandman 26 Feb 07 - 08:00 AM
George Papavgeris 26 Feb 07 - 04:46 AM
The Sandman 26 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM
GUEST,guest 2 25 Feb 07 - 05:36 PM
The Sandman 25 Feb 07 - 05:36 PM
GUEST,guest 2 25 Feb 07 - 05:32 PM
greg stephens 25 Feb 07 - 05:19 PM
Jim Lad 25 Feb 07 - 05:16 PM
The Sandman 25 Feb 07 - 05:07 PM
greg stephens 25 Feb 07 - 02:45 PM
The Sandman 25 Feb 07 - 02:23 PM
Ruth Archer 25 Feb 07 - 02:03 PM
GUEST,guest2 25 Feb 07 - 02:00 PM
The Sandman 25 Feb 07 - 01:20 PM
GUEST 25 Feb 07 - 12:58 PM
GUEST,ian 25 Feb 07 - 12:23 PM
Dave the Gnome 25 Feb 07 - 11:46 AM
The Sandman 25 Feb 07 - 11:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Feb 07 - 11:41 AM
greg stephens 25 Feb 07 - 10:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Feb 07 - 10:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,George
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 05:17 PM

Hmm I agree


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 03:28 PM

This thread has given me much food for thought and I have to say that as soon as we start discussing percentages versus flat rates, whether we all agree or not; we are admitting one thing. There is a cash flow problem. I don't think it was always this way but I am wondering how we can solve it.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 01:24 PM

Guest: If you go to my web-site and take a look at the guest book entries, you will see a number of entries from people I met at the Yellow Cello. It's just a 60 seat Pizza place where I had such a deal for five summers. This sixty seat restaurant pushed 250 customers per night and 3 or 4 years later, I still receive mail from customers on a weekly basis.
If those opportunities don't exist in the U.K. then it's never been easier to travel to Europe. In most Tourist spots the average stay in any given hotel is one and a half nights. It's not such a hard sell if you choose the right spot.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 01:12 PM

Ah I see - nice one.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:55 PM

Well I've been playing in Canada for 27 years. One phone call can get me 4 months work for 6 days a week. Another can give me 2 months at six days a week. If you choose an environment where the audience changes daily, i.e. tourist driven, you can accomplish this. Doesn't sound like you need an agent. Sounds like you're doing just fine actually.
Point to note with the Hospitality trade. When you get a long standing gig, try to get them to take you on as an employee. Drop your wage depending on how many days a week you work and you're now paying into pension plans, employment insurance and so on. In the right venue you can easily live off your sales.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:43 PM

Pubs are too noisy for what I do. Needs a silent attentive audience with no distractions.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:41 PM

The point being, I suppose, is that there are 181 clubs I need to speak to reasonably frequently because when I do catch them at the right moment (not often) there may be work in anything from 2 to 18 months time. Some clubs have a 3 year cycle, some have work annually. Som don't have a system, just book the next person who calls when they feel like it. People are often out listening to or playing music, or shopping or whatever. So that means multiple phone calls to catch them in. I only ever leave messages with people who I know will be happy to have them. Not many. And you can't do a sales pitch to an ansafone anyway - you need to ask questions before you present what you do. Also many organisers are chums and like a chat, as do I. Then there are the clubs who have changed the booker - so you have to start again. Others where the number I have is wrong, or I have no number, so I have to google or ring someone who might know. Then there's the follow-up emails, updating the database with the state of play at each club (new emails, new websites - some people seem to change these all the time), updating my own website with bookings etc etc. I really AM Not Complaining, but I just thought is would be useful for people to people know this is what it takes to play folk music full time. An agent would be wonderful but al the ones I've tried have not worked as hard as I'm prepared to. I envy you Jim. A year's work in a week. You lucky man!


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:35 PM

No pubs?


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:30 PM

Festivals (lots), village halls (not enough but they pay well), arts centres and theatres. No pubs, schools, hospitals or busking. I'm still alive. Just.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:11 PM

What is interesting is that you are keeping track. That's a good thing. Hopefully, you do branch out to other types of venues.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST, Not complaining
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:05 PM

Obviously I don't only play clubs or I'd have starved long ago. Just did a little count up:

Total clubs on my database: 368 - which breaks down as...

40 Clubs where I have future bookings (done many of these 2,3 or even 4 times)
77 clubs I've played in the last 4 years (many 2,3 or even 4 times) and expect to go back.
53 Clubs where I've not yet secured a booking but who say they want me soon.
51 Clubs I've not got that far with yet (some I've not speaken to yet, eg Scotland)
23 Clubs that have said no thankyou (23? Good grief!)
28 Clubs that never book guests (probably many more because I don't log all these)
66 Clubs that have closed in the past 4 years

Now is that interesting or very very boring?

Um..


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:02 AM

Teribus: Be very careful if you intend heading out to Europe with the help from an agent. Double check everything he/she books.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:57 AM

Not complaining: Yes you are! Start enjoying the competition. Embrace them wholeheartedly. They're keeping you in a job no matter how much or how little they charge or how good/bad you may think they are.
I stand by my previous post. "I can spend one week on the telephone and pretty well lay out a year's work." & "Given the Geography, the U.K. would be easy."
Sorry; That's Just the way it is. The fact is that when I'm going at it full time, scheduling time off becomes a problem.
If you're looking for new places all of the time, your going to run into difficulties. Be more of a farmer than a hunter.
As for not knowing the U.K. ..... You're joking. Right?


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 07:07 AM

Thanks for clearing up that misconception I had regarding your Club Villain.

With regard to fees paid, where we play they are fairly well regulated and standardised, having said that our fees for the resident gigs we play in "our Pub" work out at about half that, the Pub has provided us with a home (for years) and a constant outlet for our talents so we feel it only fair, our costs being low as we are on home ground so to speak. There is no cover charge, there is no surcharge on drink served (as I have seen done in some pubs in Holland if a live band is playing). The owner of the pub only makes his money on the increase in custom over the bar on the occasions when we play (typically £4000 over the four hour period of the gig - unfortunately most of that he gets from us!).

As I said we have never, as a band, played a Folk Club, we normally play Pubs and Festivals, and have also played with Choirs hosting some type of "Themed" Concert (Scottish/Irish).

This year we are sticking very much to Europe as in 2008 we hope to organise a "proper" tour in Australia/New Zealand, where hopefully we can get invited to play at some festivals and folk clubs. This will most likely mean that we will have to use the services of an agent, which again will be a first, as up to now they have proved to be unnecessary.

Good luck and the best of fortune with your club.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Villan
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 05:42 AM

Teribus
I wouldn't be able to afford you band at £150 a person x 6 = £900.

Normally have a limit of 70 people.

The band would have to be the tops, if I was charging lets say £14 a ticket.

I do book traditional performers (or I think I do). What I don't book is A Capella performers.

AS the club is a platform club in concert style, its inevitable that a lot of singer/songwriters appear at the club.

Basically, if I think the style of the performer will suit the club and I like what the act does, then I will try to book them at some point.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 05:26 AM

What a marvellous thread, it is absolutely wonderful to hear about so many well run Clubs.

On the punter side of things, regarding folk clubs in England, I have mainly encountered clubs on "locals" nights where they have a whip round (£1) and/or a raffle. Now being an ex-sailor, my "universal" currency is the "POAP" (Price Of A Pint), everything is guaged, no matter where in the world, to this cost. I go to a hitherto unknown (By me) Folk Club, I most certainly would not begrudge buying my Host (The Club Funds/Kitty) a drink (1POAP) to enjoy the company and entertainment of the place, after all I am there for a couple of reasons, to enjoy myself and also possibly pick up new material (Some of my favourite songs have been collected this way).

On the performing side of things, the band I am part of is lucky enough to have a Resident Spot that guarantees two gigs per week, often more, over the course of each year. We do take on "outside" gigs and due to the country, the following terms apply:
- Travel is paid
- Set up and sound check on arrival
- A meal is provided before the performance
- Refreshments are either provided or supplied at a discounted rate
- The gig is played for a flat fee.

The standard for these outside gigs works out about £150 per musician, at full strength we can be as many as six. The really well known bands always play for % as they know they are going to stack them to the rafters. As a band we have never played in a Folk Club although we only play what you would term as being "traditional folk". We use what we earn here to subsidise our trips to play at Festivals (Trans Atlantic/UK/Europe/Scandinavia). The renumeration we get from the various festivals that we have played very rarely covers costs, but we feel that the exposure we get is worth the investment, and the whole experience is normally considered as a sort of holiday. We also, as a group get to meet some fantastic people.

Villain's Club sounds marvellous, but if memory serves me correctly from another thread, he tends to favour singer/songwriters, and while we do write some of our own material, we mainly perform the "traditional" stuff, so it would probably be in the guise of the punter that I would visit.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST, Not complaining
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 03:31 AM

Jim Lad - you plainly know nothing about UK clubs - or geography! Most of the time when I'm not on the road playing is taken up with arranging bookings. It's two to three hours most evenings I'm not gigging, and three to five hours at the weekend. (Plus the email, letter and website work in the daytimes). It's a constant, never-ending struggle, even for well-known people, because there are way too many acts (many of whom are not doing it for a living, so don't need a working wage, but are still very good and have just as much right to the gig as me, for whatever fee they fancy) and nothing like enough clubs to keep us all occupied at a viable rate. So not only is it hard to find gigs, even the keen ones are in a buyers market. THEY can organise a years work, with top names, in an evening - and still be unable to fit in most of the people they really wanted to book. So woe betide any artist who misses that window. Fail to get through at the right moment and suddenly the door's shut till next year. Spend a month on tour, miss the AGM season, and woops, you've got an empty diary.

But the gigs do come in - of course, or we couldn't do it at all (and my diary is nicely full thankyou, thanks to many wonderful, courteous and efficient and kind organisers, like Mr Villan)!


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Villan
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 03:59 PM

He he Guest Exhausted, i think i know who you are, but I wont embarress myself by possibily being wrong. There aren't many like you LOL. see you soon


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 03:44 PM

of course,there will always be the clubs,where you should get booked[you do the sort of material that the regulars like] but dont, members of the club have come up to me and said, why dont you do our club.,
in my particular case its LEIGH ON SEA.,in the end I regard it as their loss not mine,.
and like the previous guest there are one or two that promised me gigs [they know who they are], but not being a hastler,I cant be bothered,.
i,d rather go out and busk,and be appreciated purely for my music.
or play the clubs where people like me.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 03:39 PM

No. Given the Geography, the U.K. would be easy.
The point was, I can do it. Some can't, so rthey should do it some other way.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 03:27 PM

"I can spend one week on the telephone and pretty well lay out a year's work."

That's incredible. Do you do play uk clubs for a living?


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST, Knackered
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 03:21 PM

Villan you are SO wrong dear boy - lol! You know me well and you think I'm very good (well you always say so)! And you are of course like 90% of organisers; a perfect Gent / Lady (well, just the first in your case :-).

I'm taking about the 10% who you don't know about. There are some who only ever use an answering machine. Now you could say that if you've not had a response in say three weeks then you're not wanted. But it aint that simple. For a start the business of planning tours needs a quicker dialogue, as I said. But also it often turns out that they DO want you, but were away (many bookers are retired and retire to hotter climes at times). Some of these Silent Few I've even played for in the past, and have been promised another gig. People move, get divorced, change their numbers. It's hard to tell who is awol and who is a Silent Phew.

I am in fact a pretty well known artist who headlines festivals and gets played on the radio. I don't expect every club to want or like me, of course, but many do. I've been at it a good while now, but there are still quite a few clubs I've never even managed to speak to. I can pretty much guarantee that the audience will be happy I was booked when I am - but I can't get booked if they don't answer the phone! It's not spamming to try to find out if you're up for a gig this year or not, or to try to find out if the word has spread yet to some cub you've not yet managed to play. If you knew my name you would be surprised that there are still a lot of clubs who have never heard of me - or others working at my level. Because they don't get out much.

These things need to be discussed. We're fighting a rearguard action here fellas.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Villan
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:56 PM

Guest Exhuasted

>>Not answering is not only rude and unfair on artists <<

Spamming and harrassing an organiser is rude and un-invited, so you deserve what you get.
We don't owe you a living. You have to be good enough to get the living.

maybe you are not good enough.

I normally answer all requests, even if I won't book the artist. I ometimes forget.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:45 PM

I can spend one week on the telephone and pretty well lay out a year's work. I don't enjoy it but I can do it. Those who have difficulty finding work this way should probably be trying some other method. Snail mail, e-mail, use a friend or hire an agent.
Some venues don't talk to agents and some only talk to agents. Whichever choice you make will be the right choice for yourself.
Having said that:- I'm sure the telephone company gave the agents the exact same book as they gave me.

Wee Tip: When you're in another state/province/country, it's not a bad idea to bring their phone books home with you.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,guest 2
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:15 PM

A very good post that shows why artists need agents.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST, Exhausted
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 01:48 PM

One thing that does annoy me is the 10% of club organisers who never answer the phone, return calls, or answer emails. They plainly screen out people they don't already know - but we poor artists have to go on and on trying, because there are now so few clubs around that we need to bottom out every potential gig if we're to create viable trips. With many clubs closing, or stopping booking guests, or no longer meeting weekly, gigs on consecutive nights an acceptable distance apart are getting harder and harder to find.

Even when you ask politley about a particualr date, these people remain silent - but you can't move on to the next (less well-placed) gig until you know for sure. They may just be on holiday. I'm like a terrier me, and, usually, eventually I'll get through, get the gig and the audience love me (well, I can hope!) - but just think how many good artists must be just giving up, and how many new members these might have brought to the club, and how much fun everyone could have had.

Not answering is not only rude and unfair on artists (it pushes the average hunting time per gig up from about one hour to over two) but it's also an abuse of what is effectively a little monopoly, an incumbency of a town/club. People who treat a club like their own private property, and don't look to the future of folk music and the survival or the tradition are really being dogs in a manger, because no-one else can set up in competition else both clubs will fail.

How long does it take to say 'thanks but no thanks?'


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 11:34 AM

guest2 I am well aware of both sides of the problem having been both sides of the fence.

you rose to the bait,and produced a very good argument,as I thought someone would.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,guest 2
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:35 AM

Once again Birdseye, I have to point something out to you. The percentage only kicks in when the organiser has taken out all the costs of the gig ie PA if one is hired, room hire etc. Therefore when we leave the 20% if we've broken the % deal, it is ALL profit.
What is galling is that sometimes a "big" name group or artist will not agree a fair basic against a %, will demand a high guarantee that is not covered by the door charge, and waltz of with the 20% the more accomodating artist has left.
But that's life as George says. Nothing is perfect. I hope this thread has enabled you and others to see that there is always another side to things.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:00 AM

300


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:00 AM

I agree ,and out of the thousands of gigs I have done,I find it difficult to recall bad gigs,.I see nothing wrong with flat fee against 80 per cent whichever the higher ,providing both parties are agreeable,and that the 20 percent allows for the promoters expenses, room hire, etc.
since the definition of a parasite is one who lives on another,perhaps its the performer with the agent who is the parasite.anyway I agree there must be good agents as well as bad.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:46 AM

There are dishonest agents, unprofessional performers and crap organisers. I agree captain that there is no room for the such, but hey, they exist - that's life. It doesn't make all agents, performers or organisers bad. Rules need not cater for the exceptions, and any generalisation is bound to contain risk.
Thankfully there are very few of them, the majority striving honestly to variously make a living/further the cause of folk, and having (and giving) fun in the process.

It is not the mechanism used to calculate the artist's fee that is the issue, IMHO; I have at different times been paid using just about every possible permutation, and I am always happy to accept whichever mechanism the club booking me feels most comfortable with (and I would bet pound to a dollar that this holds true for the majority of performers).

No, the issue I believe is whether the booking is successful in leaving both parties happy at the end. It is both a commercial and a social transaction, and both elements should be treated satisfactorily, for it to be successful. And it is hard to complete a successful transaction if one party approaches the other with suspicion and antagonism.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM

the folkscene has no room for dishonesty,the agent who used to pretend to folk club organisers,that two well known performers had a years waiting list, when they didnt, was being dishonest.
I am not bitter, neither do I need to chillout,I have a different opinion to you.,So can you be polite please.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,guest 2
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:36 PM

And I should add captain, that by breaking the percentage I left the club a nice profit. What's wrong with that for God's sake?


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:36 PM

I saw part of your gig in Ballydehob,.
MAY 4 5 6 2007,Ballydehob JAZZ FESTIVAL www.ballydehobjazzfestival.com
no agents involved,and also ballydehob trad festival,april 20 21 22.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,guest 2
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:32 PM

Captain, I recently did a gig where I broke the percentage and earned £300. I paid my agent £45. He has to book a lot of gigs to make a living! It's not about the Don Ardens. Agents for folk artists are just as nice people as club organisers and the club audience. We're all doing our best to keep alive something we treasure. it's bitter people like yourself that don't help us.
Chill out man!! ( as we used to say)


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:19 PM

Cap'n: don't knock all agents. My very wonderful Irish agent brought the Boat Band to gigs in Ballydehob, Skull, Ahakista, Bantry, Kilcrohane, Skibbereen, Baltimore, Cape Clear, Shirkin, Clonakilty, Durrus, Castletownsend etc etc etc. Now, isn't that a lovely thing? Well, it was for me anyway.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:16 PM

Take a look at the types of wages you've been discussing here and tell us what's in it for an agent. How much would you be willing to give for an agents services?


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 05:07 PM

but it has nothing to do with folk music,it belongs in the world of the Don Ardens and pop music,its all about money,and commercialism.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:45 PM

A huge number of venues book virtually all their acts through agents. So, if you're a performer and want the work from those promoters, you need an agent. That's the way it works. Yes it costs you money, but it will extend the work you do, and shield you from a certain amount of hassle.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:23 PM

not agent provacateurs, I hope.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:03 PM

I know lots of lovely agents.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,guest2
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:00 PM

Captain, your 2/6 in 1966 is now £4.50p
I have an agent, and I've always had an agent. I pay the agent to take all the rejections, the "Can't stand him" comments, the shit that all people looking for bookings have to take. All I get from the agent is the GOOD news. This is worth money to me which I am happy to pay my agent. If I worked without an agent I would charge exactly the same fee. I pay my agent out of MY pocket. All the people I work for have no problem with this. If I had to chase around after my own gigs I'd have worn myself out years ago.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 01:20 PM

peurile equals childish,you may have a different opinion to me but that doesnt make my opinion childish .
sorry your talking rot,when I was running a folk club I booked both Ewan Maccoll and peggy seeger ,Martin Carthy. Artists of the highest calibre,and booked all of them without the use of an agent,in fact Martin used to be booked regularly and I never used an agent.
if a performer normally charges 150 or 200 the agents commission is going to be an extra,if the agent is working on a percentage basis,its in his interest to make the fee as high as possible,that way he gets more.
now we have the internet ,and promotion is nearly free,lets hope agents become redundant.
And then we had the agents who used to pretend that therewas a years waiting list for certain artists when there wasnt,thats just dishonest.,it may be good business but its dishonest and has no place on the folk scene.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 12:58 PM

Agents are not parasites - that's just purile. Like performers they do a day's work for an day's pay. Full time artists are often unable or unwilling to book gigs because they don't have the skills, the contacts or - once they get busy - the time. Remember, agents work for artists, not the other way round. If we didn't need them they could not survive. And prices are NOT hiked to pay agents. The reason is this: Only artists who can command higher fees can afford to hire an agent.

Market forces set the price. Get used to it.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: GUEST,ian
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 12:23 PM

BOO HOO


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:46 AM

I agree, Dick. We never book through agents. The difference in price is what the artists charge us NOT agents fees.

D.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:42 AM

yes I have played Daves folk club,and it was enjoyable,.I played for a flat fee,
normally I play for a flat fee or if the organiser is happy with it ,a flat fee against 80 per cent of the door, whichever is greater.
I remarked that I found it annoying,different prices for different guests at the same folk club,because it can give a wrong impression about the quality of the artists,and what the punter may be paying for is the extra agents fees.
I have been performing for 35 years,and have never found it necessary to use an agent,as far as i,m concerned they are parasites.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:41 AM

Thanks, Greg - I'm all embraced now...

It was a % BTW. 100% of the door as we always do plus the raffle to which you kindly donated an album. The only difference was because it was not a 'standard' folk club night - Ie a Friday rather than a Monday we let you set the door fee and the format of the night. If I remember rightly it was £6 and you played for most of the night with a couple of our residents doing a warm up.

I think it worked very well and we now have a series of extra nights lined up for Fridays - A regular last Friday of the month with club residents doing extended concert spots and others I am keeping for such as yourselves, George and any wandering acts we may be able to
book at reasonably short notice (Ie < 3 months.) It must be made quite clear that this is NOT for regular club artists who make their annual visit but for acts we would not normaly have on for one reason or another.

I will start a new thread on that, honest, but I have a lot going on at the moment that will become apparant in the new thread later this week.

Cheers

Dave


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:36 AM

I can confirm(re an earlier post) that Dave Polshaw runs a great club, friendly, a joy to play in, and very high quality floor-singers. I was there with the Boat band, and we'd go back any time. Now, the relevant point about that visit is I can't remember whether we played for a flat fee or door money. I could look it up, but I'm not going to bother. basically, what I mean is, it doesn't actually matter that much. Sometimes a promoter wants one thing, sometimes anotjher. A deal can always be struck. Certainly not a topic to shout at anybody about. It;'s not as if we are discussing the meaning of "folk" or the relative merits of football teams.


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Subject: RE: Performers fees (% or flat fee?)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:34 AM

We have only booked you when you have been in the UK anyway, Dick - As in at the Lancaster Maritime festival. But seeing as we got the dates you were booked wrong we are better steering clear of that;-)

A larger venue IS an alternative but we need to look at the sums and logistics very carefuly. Yes - we can book the 466 seat theatre at the Lowry for £800. 466 x £2.50 = £1165. Less £800 for the room hire means the artists gets £365. If we only get 50 people there we are well stuffed:-(

We are no longer a folk club in that case though we are a concert. How many people do you think we can have in the ausience and still call it a folk club? Can we move from a venue we have been at for 25 years and say it is the same folk club? Don't want to sound like I am purposely finding fault but these are all issue that I, as an organiser need to consider.

From reading this thread it is getting harder and harder to do all the time we need to -

Pay the Artist a living wage
Charge a reasonable fee on the door to make folk accesible to all
Charge the same on the door regardless of what the artist charges
Make sure the artist is well looked after
Make sure the audience is catered to
Move from venue to venue to ensure the audience can fit
Ensure the folk club is part of the community and enhances that area

The list seems endless! Maybe I should just pack it all in!

Dave

PS - You know I won't;-)


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