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Whitby tap and spile

GUEST,Mitch 27 Jan 07 - 05:28 AM
gnomad 27 Jan 07 - 06:14 AM
GUEST,Mitch 27 Jan 07 - 06:26 AM
Mrs.Duck 27 Jan 07 - 07:12 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 07 - 07:28 AM
GUEST,yellerbelly 27 Jan 07 - 08:21 AM
r.padgett 27 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM
The Villan 27 Jan 07 - 12:40 PM
GUEST,yellerbelly 27 Jan 07 - 02:39 PM
GUEST,mississippi man 27 Jan 07 - 05:11 PM
GUEST,JJ 27 Jan 07 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,yellerbelly 28 Jan 07 - 09:26 AM
Jean(eanjay) 28 Jan 07 - 09:38 AM
GUEST,yellerbelly 28 Jan 07 - 09:53 AM
selby 28 Jan 07 - 02:56 PM
GUEST,yellerbelly 28 Jan 07 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,yellerbelly 28 Jan 07 - 03:59 PM
GUEST 28 Jan 07 - 04:13 PM
Jean(eanjay) 28 Jan 07 - 04:21 PM
GUEST 28 Jan 07 - 05:02 PM
Jean(eanjay) 28 Jan 07 - 05:06 PM
GUEST,padgett 29 Jan 07 - 05:51 AM
GUEST,the one 29 Jan 07 - 06:10 AM
Scrump 29 Jan 07 - 06:39 AM
GUEST,JJ 29 Jan 07 - 08:43 AM
Jean(eanjay) 29 Jan 07 - 09:01 AM
Les from Hull 29 Jan 07 - 10:05 AM
GUEST 29 Jan 07 - 07:22 PM
Les from Hull 30 Jan 07 - 08:02 AM
nutty 30 Jan 07 - 08:17 AM
Jean(eanjay) 30 Jan 07 - 08:21 AM
Raggytash 30 Jan 07 - 11:04 AM
GUEST 31 Jan 07 - 04:32 AM
GUEST,collierlad 02 Feb 07 - 01:06 PM
GUEST 02 Feb 07 - 01:12 PM
r.padgett 03 Feb 07 - 01:15 PM
stallion 04 Feb 07 - 07:28 AM
Les from Hull 04 Feb 07 - 07:40 AM
GUEST 04 Feb 07 - 08:52 AM
GUEST 04 Feb 07 - 09:36 AM
Mississippi Saxaphone 04 Feb 07 - 09:43 AM
GUEST,Dave 04 Feb 07 - 09:56 AM
Jean(eanjay) 04 Feb 07 - 10:03 AM
GUEST,Dave 04 Feb 07 - 10:18 AM
GUEST,Tap and spile whitby 04 Feb 07 - 01:34 PM
GUEST,MikeOfNorthumbria(Off base) 05 Feb 07 - 11:43 AM
Mrs.Duck 05 Feb 07 - 12:33 PM
Jean(eanjay) 05 Feb 07 - 02:10 PM
r.padgett 05 Feb 07 - 02:50 PM
Jean(eanjay) 05 Feb 07 - 02:51 PM
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Subject: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,Mitch
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 05:28 AM

Are sunday sessions still going ahead and what is happening folk week? We visiting as usual but were going to try and get up for a weekend!


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: gnomad
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 06:14 AM

New L/lord has not yet taken over. He has worked in the town for some years, including several months in the T&S, so is well aware of the historic position.

He has said he wants the folkie connection to continue, and that is what we intend also. Of course changes & developments may occur, but right now I know of none planned.

Are you the Mitch of the Flat-pack Blues? If so I remember at least one previous visit, and look forward to future ones.

Paul


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,Mitch
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 06:26 AM

Cheers sounds good, hope to be there soon and ring the changes! Give my regards to pete and Sheree will not be the same without a couple at the helm


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 07:12 AM

He certainly said at new year that the front room would still be available for the singarounds even though they are planning to extend food.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 07:28 AM

That the genral public kept out for the select few a*****s then


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,yellerbelly
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 08:21 AM

What a sad life you lead Guest


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: r.padgett
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM

Yes all the best to Peter and Sheree

keep up the real ales and the live music and hope Derek, Tony, Ange, gnomad, Jude and company continue the tradition

regards also to Mick Haywood and Coblers Monday

All the best from Booker Padgett and the rest of the Barnsley Lads

Ray


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: The Villan
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 12:40 PM

There are currently two threads running on the same subject. The other is in the section below this one. Wouldn't it be a good idea if the moderators merged the two?


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,yellerbelly
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 02:39 PM

There you are then guest with a lot of effort you've managed a dignified silence instead of that ineffectual slagging off,keep taking the medication you'll get there in the end


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,mississippi man
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 05:11 PM

I have been reading the exchange between Guest and Guest yellerbelly and as there are always 2 sides to such a discussion I decided to make a comment based on my own experience having been to the Tap and Spile on more than one occasion. In past years having run a major folk club in a major city this I feel gives me the experience to comment. I have no hesitation in completely agreeing with Guest. The lesson is to try to welcome newcomers and not be such a clique.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,JJ
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 05:18 PM

Guest and Mississippi Man have a point.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,yellerbelly
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:26 AM

Enough pubs in Whitby to allow one cliquey(?spelling)one
if you do n't like it as I do n't, get on with life and go to another pub


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:38 AM

A shame to do that if somebody has something to contribute - isn't that what singalong sessions are all about?


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,yellerbelly
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:53 AM

Tap&Spile's loss could be another pubs gain


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: selby
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 02:56 PM

Yellerbelly your response is what people feel is happening and people have contributions to make. I find it facinating that the Tap & Spile comes up with such regularity and with such venom against what people percieve goes on in there. I have to say that somebody has upset someone and if I was in the Clique and there is one I would feel my press was a bit bad to say the least. Dont forget the T&S has nothing to do with Folk week and is just another Pub


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,yellerbelly
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 03:51 PM

Selby I am neither attacking or defending The Tap&Spile just trying to tell Guest that his/her bitterness at being turned away is pointless & its time to move on


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,yellerbelly
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 03:59 PM

BTW we could n't get into the T&S on New Years Eve,we did n't make a song & dance about just went & found another pub & had a great night
& since anonymous Guest has left the thread to others to defend him/her I will now do the same


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 04:13 PM

Im with yellerbelly on this one....let them get on with it , there are many folk accommodating pubs in whitby. Enjoy whatever takes ya fancy....


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 04:21 PM

I'm with you both now. However, the bottom line is that it is a shame when folk music is given a bad name!


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 05:02 PM

Went to the T&S last June. Tried my best to get into the singaround for three hours and didn't manage to sing at all. I am no wallflower but when all the table have 'reserved for musicians' signs on them, even though they are obviously not, it does put even the most brassed necked of us off. As far as I am concerned if the new management manage to include more people it can only be for the better.

Ex Mudcat member and Whitby (both folk and goth festival) regular.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 05:06 PM

Absolutely.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 05:51 AM

I am sorry if ppl couldnt get in on New Years Eve, however that event was down as a private party and the pub was officially down as not open to the public if you had been in during the afternoon and made yourself know I am sure you would have been welcome

In my opinion there is no clique as such and I personnaly go out of my way to see fair play

I regularly ask is if anyone has been missed as I and other mcs cannot know everyone that sings and going round the room is a good idea but too many nip out for a smoke/drinks/toilet and get side tracked!!

I do take great issue with queue jumpers and ppl have to respect the fact that you can wait over 2 hrs for your turn everyone is equal in singaround guests alike in this venue

I ahve been there and have suffered myself at singarounds at festivals that I am not knmown at

Ray


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,the one
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 06:10 AM

IHAVE SEEN DISABLED PEOPLE TOLD TO GET UP OF THEIR SEATS TO MAKE ROOM FOR NOBODY, AND AS FOR THAT FRONT ROOM,THEY ACT LIKE A BUNCH OF VICTORIA BECKHAMS I HAVE SEEN MORE LAUGHTER AT A BURIAL IT IS NOT A MEMBERS ONLY PUB OR IS, IT BRING ON THE CHANGE, AND MAY BE I WILL PUT NEW STRINGS ON THAT EKO GUITAR ABOVE THE BAR FOR WHO KNOWS SOMBODY JUST MIGHT PLAY IT (I DID) LETS HOPE OUR GOOD LUCK WILL NOT MEAN OTHERS SUFFER.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Scrump
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 06:39 AM

What ale do they have there? Just interested to know.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,JJ
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 08:43 AM

I can't remember, I was put off going - but now that Ray has reassured us all I'll let you know!


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 09:01 AM

Snap.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Les from Hull
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 10:05 AM

I'm confused. There have never been 'reserved for musicians' signs on the tables in the front room (the one on the right as you go in), although there's sometimes a sign on the door identifying that romm as the 'singaround room'. Space is limited in this room, but whoever is running the session has always accomodated singers, and everyone gets their chance when it is their turn. But it may not be their turn for about an hour or two as it does take time to get round everyone.

The place where there are 'reserved for musicians' signs is the main room, which accommodates a free-for-all dive-in session during festival times. So it may be a tune session, or a tune session with occassional songs, but with no identified leader. So if you sat in there and waited to be asked to sing you would have a very long wait! Except when this room is hosted by Derek Elliot as it is once a week throughout the year, and then you would be asked to sing.

The other room (the front non-smoking room with the bar in it) hosts informal dive-in sessions during festival times.

I say festival times because similar things happen during the Moor and Coast Festival and Whitby Folk Week. The singaround room is an official venue for the Moor and Coast Festival, and a purely unofficial one during Folk Week.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 07:22 PM

There have never been 'reserved for musicians' signs on the tables

In June the tables to the left hand side in the back room had signs on saying reserved for musicians. I stood leaning on a pillar, with my back to the bar, for 3 hours trying to attract the organisers attention. When I eventualy did, after the night had finished, he was ever so apologetic but too late. I walked in from the front - ie the river or quay end. Around the bar and into what I believe to be the 'back room'.

Incidentaly wasn't the Tap and Spile the Cutty Sark when I first went to Whitby in 1980? Anyhow. Later in the week I went to the Rowing Club where I only got to sing because Nick (Raggytash) happened to know me. The organiser informed me that he had not asked because 'I didn't look like a singer'.

Go figure as our US collegues say...


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Les from Hull
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 08:02 AM

Yes correct, ex-Cutty Sark. I don't know who 'the organiser' would be in the back room. If it was a Sunday night it could have been Derek Elliot, but I doubt that he would have missed you out.

And if you are going to quote me, please don't quote me out of context.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: nutty
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 08:17 AM

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread but felt I must make a point. This year (2006) with the loss of The Plough as a venue for singers and players, all other venues were overloaded and tghis was particularly true of the Tap and Spile.

At times squeezing any more people into the small left-hand room would have contravened fire regs to such an extent that the pub could have been closed down. That was why, at times, the landlord arranged for a doorman.

Also a number of people in that room were Whitby residents who support the pub and its activities all the year round. Its not being unfair to ensure that their needs are looked after during folk week as well.

We have all had to serve an apprenticeship (so to speak) and wait on the sideline until our talents are recognised. It's regrettable that some people are upset by being missed out but then nothing in this world is perfect.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 08:21 AM

Losing The Plough was a shame but I also noticed that in the final parade there seemed to be very few dance teams left.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 11:04 AM

Hi Guest, In the back room at the Tap on a Sunday night we have a "folk session" I wouldn't call it a club as such because it's held in a main room of a pub. Derek bless his little cotton socks has been known to omit people, even my wife who was sitting next to me at the time, I put it down to his age, others put it down to the beer! but please be assured it wasn't deliberate.
I don't recall being in the Rowing club, having said that I have been known to imbibe between then and now, and I cannot understand why people can't/won't put their names to threads so go on reveal yourself (if you'll pardon the expression)


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:32 AM

I will eventualy, Nick - Just testing the water again after a bit of a lay off from the 'cat. Seeing if has got any calmer after after a rough patch and it does seem to have lost some of the nastiness that was permeating recently. Just to remind you - You know me from Eccles and you invited me to go fishing next day at some ridiculous hour. I didn't make it;-)
- Dave-


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,collierlad
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 01:06 PM

New photos of New Years Eve have now been added to the WEB site.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 01:12 PM

Whitby Folk Photo Centre


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: r.padgett
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 01:15 PM

New Year !! thanks Brian for Photos

Ray


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: stallion
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 07:28 AM

This is not about the T & S whitby, singarounds, singarounds are difficult to manage, I've done it, and sometimes I have sounded like Mrs Doyle, "Go on, go on, go on" when asking for a known performer to join in, now , if the don't ask they don't get asked, it doesn't have to be formal it can be as discreet as a sheep auction, look into Graham Metcalf's eyes and if you get a response of a slight turn of the head to the right accompanied by a lowering of the jaw then you get a song, if he stares straight back you won't.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 07:40 AM

Dead right, old horse. Sometimes people don't appreciate how subtle and unobstrusive you're trying to be in trying to keep the thing going. And if anybody thinks they are being ignored, then why don't they have a quiet word with the organiser? We don't always get it right but it's unfair to nurse a grudge and then release it to the public on Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 08:52 AM

why don't they have a quiet word with the organiser?

Because people are people and have their own personal doubts and insecurities about their ability. Even now, after 20-odd years of singing in public, I wouldn't dream of foisting myself on a singaround without being asked. I am also an organiser and can honestly say that I personaly ask everyone in the room if they would like to sing. Never force people to perform, never miss anyone out. It isn't that difficult. It takes somewhere in the region of 10 seconds to find out if someone wants to perform. Even if there are 100 people in the room (a miracle in our case!) it would take less that 10 minutes to ask everyone.

I don't always get everything right either, but to accuse someone who is too polite or too insecure to ask for a spot of being unfair is not a very helpful way of resolving the issue is it?


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 09:36 AM

This does not deter from the fact that the T&S in Whitby is a clique the people involved will not let people they do not know join in.
The proof of the pudding is try for your self at one of the festivals. It sems strange that another guy in another Pub in Whitby does things and advertises on mudcat he does not get attacked.
MMMMM Strange


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Mississippi Saxaphone
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 09:43 AM

Guest 4 Feb 07 @ 8.52pm

He has hit the nail on the head. A well run sing around is conducted by the organisers by welcoming everyone and enquiring if they wish to sing. After all if someone new enters the sing around how could the organiser know if they were a singer or musician as the point has been made that even experienced singers wait to be asked rather than assume that they have a right to sing.

Having been to the Sunday Night session many times I can confirm that this is run for the Whitby clique and they do not want outsiders.

Maybe they should organise themselves a private room somewhere else,


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 09:56 AM

I, personnally do not like or run singarounds. I prefer to run singabouts with no particular order. This way you do not get people coming in and sussing out which way the wind is blowing, getting a song quickly and then going just to return later and do the same thing. This often means that people who have been there since the start get missed out as there is not enough time.
I have always enjoyed the singarounds in the Tap, run by Jude and co., but there you go.
By the way, where are the previous encumbents going?


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 10:03 AM

"This way you do not get people coming in and sussing out which way the wind is blowing, getting a song quickly and then going just to return later and do the same thing." Guest, Dave

I'm sure an organiser would notice if this was happening.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 10:18 AM

A good one would. But often festivals use guests as session organisers and not session organisers.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,Tap and spile whitby
Date: 04 Feb 07 - 01:34 PM

We would like to introduce ourselves as colin and andrew, we have just moved into the tap and spile at whitby. We would like to take this opportunity to welcome everyone old and new to the tap, where all are welcome, and we hope everyone am enjoy themselves and have a good fun time! We hope to see you all soon. Colin and andrew.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: GUEST,MikeOfNorthumbria(Off base)
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 11:43 AM

Hi Colin and Andrew,

Welcome to the party! I hope that you'll maintain the Tap& Spile's cheerful ambience, musical diversity, and excellent array of ales in the years ahead, and I look forward to calling in during Folk Week this coming August.

Meanwhile, would the gripers and whingers who go on (and on and on) about the alleged "elitism" and "cronyism" of the T&S's front bar singaround please take a few moments to consider the following observations.

Firstly: the front bar at the T&S is small. Common sense, and safety regulations, dictate that numbers inside must be limited. If there were a fire, or a bomb scare, and people got injured in the crush because the limit had been exceeded, the management could be sued for massive amounts – they might even go to jail. Only the most bone-headed could interpret their concern to keep the numbers inside at a safe level as some kind of Fascism.

Secondly: whenever I've been there, the method used to limit numbers has been simple and transparent. While the room is filling up, it's "come one, come all". When the room's full, it's "one out, one in". Can the critics explain what is undemocratic about that? Or is it just that they expect the safety rules to be waived for them, because of their celebrity status?

Thirdly: what about this alleged clique? Well, there are quite a few people who visit that room regularly, and some of them come back year after year. Naturally, like old friends who meet anywhere else, they tend to greet each other and exchange scraps of news. Nervous, suspicious or insecure people might conceivably feel threatened by this. But in my experience, the old-timers have always made a positive effort to welcome newcomers. They certainly welcomed me when I first arrived, knowing absolutely nobody there. At the start of the session, it's normally one of them who kicks off, before inviting others to contribute, but that's pretty standard in most clubs or sessions. And I've never noticed them doing more than their share of songs. Indeed, I've often seen one of them pass up his/her regular turn to make time for a latecomer to get one song in before closing time.

In fact, I've never seen anyone hogging the limelight in this session, it's always been "one singer, one song – then wait till your turn comes round again"   Everyone's eligible - indeed, even the people who've come along just to listen are encouraged to "have a go". But suppose there are thirty singers in the room, and the average song takes three minutes. Simple arithmetic ensures that you'll be asked for a song every hour and a half or so.

If this isn't enough for you, there are alternative venues in Whitby. Anarchic singing sessions, where wannabe folk superstars can try to dominate the room by shouting down the opposition, are easy enough to find. But a lot of people go to the T&S front bar precisely because it's not like that. And what's wrong with a bit of diversity?

Wassail!


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 12:33 PM

Well said, Mike. I have been going to the Tap and Spile for over ten years now so would consider myself a regular but still remember my first tentative steps into the room where I was encouraged to have a go and sing and have never looked back. Good to hear from you Andy and Colin. We wish you every success with the new venture and look forward to continuing the fun and good singing at folk week and New Year.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 02:10 PM

Wouldn't it have been nice for Colin and Andrew to have introduced themselves and welcomed people as they did and that then been an end of the matter. I find it disappointing that it is still continuing.


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: r.padgett
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 02:50 PM

Welcome Colin and Andrew

Ray


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Subject: RE: Whitby tap and spile
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 02:51 PM

Snap. I'm looking forward to having a drink in there.


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