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BS: Hillary is in the race for President

Bill D 27 Jan 07 - 11:26 PM
Riginslinger 27 Jan 07 - 10:58 PM
Captain Ginger 27 Jan 07 - 09:58 AM
Bill D 26 Jan 07 - 06:41 PM
Greg F. 26 Jan 07 - 06:20 PM
KB in Iowa 26 Jan 07 - 04:22 PM
Captain Ginger 26 Jan 07 - 04:07 PM
Bill D 26 Jan 07 - 03:40 PM
Don Firth 26 Jan 07 - 03:25 PM
dianavan 26 Jan 07 - 03:07 PM
Bill D 26 Jan 07 - 02:35 PM
Little Hawk 26 Jan 07 - 02:04 PM
JeremyC 26 Jan 07 - 01:51 PM
MMario 26 Jan 07 - 01:48 PM
Little Hawk 26 Jan 07 - 01:44 PM
JeremyC 26 Jan 07 - 01:37 PM
MMario 26 Jan 07 - 01:22 PM
JeremyC 26 Jan 07 - 01:15 PM
Little Hawk 26 Jan 07 - 01:01 PM
GUEST,Black Maribuzo 26 Jan 07 - 12:47 PM
Wolfgang 26 Jan 07 - 07:45 AM
Peace 24 Jan 07 - 01:17 AM
dianavan 23 Jan 07 - 10:05 PM
Little Hawk 23 Jan 07 - 09:33 PM
GUEST,lol 23 Jan 07 - 09:26 PM
Desdemona 23 Jan 07 - 08:59 PM
Riginslinger 23 Jan 07 - 07:39 PM
akenaton 23 Jan 07 - 06:42 PM
Don Firth 23 Jan 07 - 06:06 PM
Little Hawk 23 Jan 07 - 04:42 PM
Peace 23 Jan 07 - 04:30 PM
Little Hawk 23 Jan 07 - 04:22 PM
Captain Ginger 23 Jan 07 - 03:55 PM
Little Hawk 23 Jan 07 - 03:33 PM
Captain Ginger 23 Jan 07 - 01:34 PM
Bill D 23 Jan 07 - 11:56 AM
dianavan 23 Jan 07 - 10:18 AM
GUEST,kdumumorjj 22 Jan 07 - 09:34 PM
GUEST,kdumumorjj 22 Jan 07 - 09:13 PM
Bill D 22 Jan 07 - 05:40 PM
Don Firth 22 Jan 07 - 05:28 PM
Captain Ginger 22 Jan 07 - 03:36 PM
jimlad9 22 Jan 07 - 01:56 PM
GUEST,kdumumorjj 22 Jan 07 - 12:39 PM
The Villan 22 Jan 07 - 12:10 PM
Scrump 22 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM
Midchuck 22 Jan 07 - 12:04 PM
Slag 21 Jan 07 - 08:32 PM
Barry Finn 21 Jan 07 - 08:27 PM
Little Hawk 21 Jan 07 - 08:09 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 11:26 PM

I doubt an avowed atheist would ever get the nomination. Maybe someone with no affiliation who was very sneaky could avoid the issue long enough, but not easily.

(Eisenhower had to 'look around' for a church when he was running...his family had been Jehovah's Witnessesm but he found a nice, quiet Presbyterian church down the street in 1953).


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 10:58 PM

Frankly, I think America would have been much more likely to accept an Atheist before Ronald Reagan got elected. But since Reagan, the country has taken many, many giant steps backwards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 09:58 AM

Nothing to do with Hilary per se, but in another thread I wondered what the prospects of an avowed atheist would be. The US seems to be a place where a public profession of faith is seen as important. Would the electorate ever accept an atheist?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 06:41 PM

" it seems like being first should rotate a bit."...Amen! I've been saying that for 5-6 years now. There should be a lottery..or a similar system...to rotate the primary schedule each 4 years. It would still 'favor' certain candidates at times, but would sure be an imporvement.
Better yet, NO primaries, but a system of candidate selection thru grass-roots organizations...then a set primary date for everyone where the final candidates are selected. And get money as far out of the way as possible...give every final candidate a budget and strict limits on how it can be spent.

Yeah, there are problems in the details, but it's a direction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 06:20 PM

Being Catholic used to also be a no-no till John Kennedy managed to overcome it.

Right. How many Catholic U.S. presidents have there been since 1963?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:22 PM

Iowa and New Hampshire being at the beginning and weilding so much influence is a huge issue here. It is fought over regularly and somehow the situation remains. As an Iowan I wouldn't mind seeing it change. The sh*t hits the fan here early, lasts way too long, and then we become irrelevant again.

The thing I do think is good is that our population is fairly small and we are a caucus state. The candidates actually have to get out and talk to people rather than just flooding the airwaves. If you don't see a candidate in person here then you aren't trying. You can't swing a deat cat without hitting one.

I don't know how much of that is population and how much is because we caucus rather than have a regular primary. Maybe it is just because we are the only show in town for a while. No matter, it seems like being first should rotate a bit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:07 PM

I find her the most appealing of the various potential presidential candidates. OK, she's capable to fudging issues and appealing to the lowest common denominator, but that's axiomatic in politics. And she must be good for all the right wingers to hate her so much. Anyone who attracts so much shit from such sleazebags has to be OK in my books.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:40 PM

Anyone remember the Goldwater slogan.."In your heart, you know he's right"? That was a bit arrogant, too.

later parodied: "yeah...FAR right"


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:25 PM

Arrogant? She's quite self-confident. But arrogant?

Are you sure that the problem isn't that she just an "uppity woman?"

Please define arrogance and give three examples in which Hillary is demonstrating arrogance.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: dianavan
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:07 PM

Wolfgang - You're right. The article you linked said this about Obama.

"Aside from not being Hillary Clinton, Obama has little to offer the antiwar movement or proponents of an alternative U.S. strategy for the Middle East."

It may be that he doesn't want any Democrat but it may also be that both Hillary and Obama are both politicians who are not really so different than any other politician, left or right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:35 PM

In many ways, elections were easier before photos, radio, TV...etc...we had to READ what the candidate said. Not everyone got to hear a live speech or talk to the candidate. Now it's just a race to see who can dig up the most negative data and 'spin' it in the cleverest way using flashy ads.

(A old cowboy was once accused of bragging. He replied, "Way I figger it, braggin' is when you got nothin' to back it up!".)

So...you don't like Hillary? At some point, you may get a vote on her...if Nevada, Iowa and New Hampshire haven't made all the decisions for you. Now THAT's the situation that needs fixing!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:04 PM

A lot of other things can make you unelectable too...like...

A not-so-pretty face. A vague resemblance to Herman Munster. Bad hair. A poor figure. A high voice. Not belonging to one of the two major political parties. Being female. Being non-white. Being a Jew. Being a Muslim. Being perceived as an "intellectual" rather than one of the common people!

All those, in the past, have made people unelectable as President of the United States.

Being Catholic used to also be a no-no till John Kennedy managed to overcome it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: JeremyC
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 01:51 PM

I wouldn't say arrogance is anything but a personal quality that may or may not impact the way you lead people or your effectiveness at doing so.

Basically, arrogance could be good, bad, or irrelevant, depending on your other personal qualities. Politically, though, arrogance can make you unelectable, even though it may have fuckall to do with your actual performance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 01:48 PM

so - you are saying arrogance is good in a leader - but a person percieved as arrogant won't be able to get elected because of the perception of being arrogant?

catch-22


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 01:44 PM

True. After all, Julius Caesar was arrogant, wasn't he? He was also a damned effective leader.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: JeremyC
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 01:37 PM

Arrogance isn't a big deal unless it's combined with foolishness (see George W. Bush for an example of this combination). Nothing I've seen on Hillary indicates to me that she has this combination of qualities.

For my part, I may not LIKE someone who's arrogant, but that's the last thing I give a shit about when I'm trying to figure out who I want as a president. I don't want a president who I could have a beer and shoot the shit with, I want a complete fucking genius who is superior to me in every conceivable way. That's because I'm voting for a leader, not a buddy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 01:22 PM

But she is arrogant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: JeremyC
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 01:15 PM

I would probably vote for her. She's a staggeringly intelligent woman, and unless I see someone else who would likely handle Congress better, I think she could make a good choice.

Claiming she shouldn't be in office because her husband got a blowjob is idiotic at best. What does her relationship with her husband have to do with, say, her foreign policy or budget plans?

I don't think she'd get elected, anyway, based on the massive public perception of her as being extremely arrogant. You could see that working during the state of the union address, where the cameras kept showing her in this rigid, upright position with a frozen smirk on her face.

It's too bad that packaging and other irrelevant qualities have such an influence on elections.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 01:01 PM

It's inevitable that in this world of ruthless competition for markets and military dominance the richest and most powerful people would be making behind-the-scenes maneuvers that the public is not privy to. It has always been so.   So that there are conspiracies at the top levels of government and corporate control is obvious if you give it any real thought. The only question regarding the various given conspiracy theories that are out now is this: how accurate are they, how close are they to the truth?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,Black Maribuzo
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:47 PM

Actually, conspiracy theory is the only solution that fits everything from the Bay of Pigs to 9/11 to the invasion of Iraq; from the Bushes to the Clintons. Do a little research and you will be quite surprised how everything dovetails so nicely together. It seems the same people are involved over and over again.

You can begin with http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/ and the relationship with George H.W. Bush and his father Prescott with Richard Nixon, Jack Rubenstein, Gerald Ford and on and on.
Then do a search for Mena, Arkansas and the Clintons; the CIA running drugs, guns and money; Eugene Hassenfus and on and on.
I say we ask Ross Perot what he knows about all of this. The answers would shock and amaze all the world. I would bet my life on it.

Really, it all adds up. You must ask yourself why an educated person such as myself would believe the Grand-Conspiracy idea if it were nothing but hollow tripe. The answer is because, after disbelief is suspended and all of the evidence is looked at in an objective fashion, it all makes perfect sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 07:45 AM

Ake - A very insightful link.

Here's what the same author thinks about
Obama

One can get the feeling that he will not like whoever runs for the Democrats.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 01:17 AM

Hillary wants to win, as she's said: "I'm in, and I'm in to win." Yeah, and with that and a buck . . . . It would be nice to know what she intends to do for the people of the US, but since that has not been the focus of too many American Presidents lately, maybe for her it's all about winning. Which will once again make the American people the losers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:05 PM

Ake - A very insightful link.

Whats the point of any woman or any democrat becoming president if they have the same policies as Bush?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 09:33 PM

Yikes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,lol
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 09:26 PM

http://www.infowars.com/images2/cartoons/vote_billary.jpg

Best poster I've seen so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Desdemona
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 08:59 PM

I've always liked Hillary and would personally be happy to give her my vote if she were to win the nomination. That said, I'm afraid that she does appear to be just too polarising, and another Republican victory would be quite literally unbearable; it will be interesting to see how the next 18 months play out.

~D


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 07:39 PM

My money is on Job's Daughters as being the most insidious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 06:42 PM

America's first woman president??Hope its not Hillary


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 06:06 PM

And the Masons and the Eastern Star and the Kiwanis Club and the Rotary Club and the Elks and the Eagles and Job's Daughters and the Rainbow Girls and DeMolay and University District Businessmen's Club and the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts and the Cub Scouts and the Brownies and the Overlake Friends of the Library and the Royal Astronomical Society and the Republican Party and the Democratic Party and the Socialist Workers Party and the Green Party and the Independent Party and the Southern Baptist Leadership Conference and the National Council of Churches and the Fellowship of Reconciliation and the International Longshoremen and Warehouseman's Union and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists and the American Federation of Musicians and the Federation Internationale d'Escrime and Flat Earth Society and the Ladies' Musical Club and. . . .

And believe me, some of these people want to take over the world!

Now don't say you haven't been warned!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 04:42 PM

You're quite right about that, Peace. The world will always be full of prigs who laugh and point and go on about "little green men" and "tinfoil hats", which is your first clue to how little thought or investigation they've actually given to the matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 04:30 PM

The Bilderberg group does exist. So does Skull and Bones. Laughing at it does not make them disappear. Laughing at someone who mentions organizations of that nature does not change the facts. I haven't opened Guests link, but then I have been looking at these 'societies' for many years now. Keep saying it ain't so will eventually make you believe it ain't s. However, it is so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 04:22 PM

Figures...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 03:55 PM

Sorry Little Hawk, they're only for the Illuminati and those 'in the know' ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 03:33 PM

I note that one cannot purchase tinfoil hats at WalMart. Or at any other national chain. So why do you keep bringing them up all the time? Do they come from the same inventive place your mythical "little green men" do?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 01:34 PM

Blimey Bill and kinkajoo, that url sure is a cracker! We've gone off the scale in conspiracy terms on this one - illuminati, bilderberg, masons,gays...
Tinfoil hats on, chaps!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 11:56 AM

uh-huh...that "Stewweb" site is SURELY the most authoritative place to find answers.....why look what he says on its main page!

"George W Bush a known Closet Homosexual, Insane, Fascist, Satanist. A Total Failure all his life and a Son of a Witch and Knights Templar-Satanist. George W Bush is the result of Satanic cross-breading and incest. George W Bush parents are 2nd cousins. This may explain Jr's low IQ of 92 and Daddy Bush IQ or 95."

THAT certainly clears it up for me! Yessir!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Jan 07 - 10:18 AM

Murdock and Hillary?

I hope this is a lie.

If she thinks she can play two ends against the middle, she will surely be defeated. I actually think that Hillary is a politician from the word go and I would never trust her to keep a promise or do anything other than score points for herself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,kdumumorjj
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 09:34 PM

From the World Socialist Web Site, May 10, 2006:

...When it comes to politics, Murdoch, known in media circles as the "dirty digger," is equally adaptable in pursuing his personal gain. The most loyal right-wing Tory and friend of Margaret Thatcher during the 1980s, as he built up his media holdings in Britain, he switched his loyalties to "New Labour" when he saw that Tony Blair could provide a fresh face for even more reactionary politics and was more than willing to further Murdoch's interests in return for editorial backing. He made similar swings in his native Australia between the Labor and Liberal parties to further his efforts at monopolizing the print and broadcast media.

So, it should really come as no surprise that Murdoch is now emerging as a prominent backer of the Democratic US Senator from New York, Hillary Clinton....

...For the last five years, Murdoch's Fox News has served as the closest thing to a state propaganda network that America has ever seen, unswervingly defending the Bush administration while vilifying its critics. Tony Snow's transformation from a right-wing Fox talk show host into the head of the White House press office is only the most blatant expression of this politically incestuous relationship...

...Now, Hillary Clinton, whose $20 million campaign fund includes large sums from the unions, including Transport Workers Union (TWU) Local 100, will be getting even more money from Murdoch, a veteran union-buster and one of the most prominent advocates of the TWU's destruction....

Etc. So disgusting.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/may2006/murd-m10.shtml


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,kdumumorjj
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 09:13 PM

Oops, forgot to add my handle...

Yes, pasting URLs is interesting. Here's a goodie. Just takes a moment to load:

http://www.stewwebb.com/Bush%20Crime%20Family%20Flow%20Chart.HTML


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 05:40 PM

Oh, indeed it is charming! I'll bet it contains 127.83 MORE hours of potential reading about innuendos and accusations and conspiracy theories. I'll be delving into that right after....ummm....my expedition to the South pole.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 05:28 PM

And a lovely URL it is. I've been sitting here admiring it all afternoon.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 03:36 PM

Aw bless, guest kilimajaro has learned how to paste a url.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: jimlad9
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 01:56 PM

Scrump

The lovely Cherie would not take the drop in her income for the PM's job


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,kdumumorjj
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:39 PM

Links about Mena, Arkansas, the drug smuggling drop point protected by Bill Clinton and his wife:

http://www.csun.edu/CommunicationStudies/ben/news/cia/mena/index.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: The Villan
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:10 PM

Things have already got worse over in the UK ever since Tony sucked up to Georges Bush.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM

I Just hope fervently that this doesn't give our own beloved Cherie any ideas. I think I'll just have to emigrate if the unthinkable happens :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Midchuck
Date: 22 Jan 07 - 12:04 PM

I will not vote for anyone who went to Yale - either undergraduate or Law school - in the next election. Things are getting worse, and this has to stop.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Slag
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 08:32 PM

Gee, Hilary is running for president. And who didn't see this comming from the first days of her husbands incumbency?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Barry Finn
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 08:27 PM

Hillary, I believe, not only handled Bill's Monica affair as best she could do for both herself & her daughter but I believe she handled to the best way she could for the good on the nation & put herself second after the nation. IMHO she's a very strong woman & probly if Bill wasn't a public figure she would've toss him out on the street with both eyes blackened. That would've done us all a disservice, just look at what was done to Bill for not keeping his pants zipped up. And if someone's got a problem with Hillary over that, that got to be the least offensive peice of action done by any politcian that I can think of. That aren't many around that are in this game that are willing to overlook any slight of character but there are plenty that will use this trash to bash a character.

Mary, her health plan may not have been a great one but it was way beyond what we are now subjected to & so far Kennedy's the only one that came up with a decent one & it's been quite a while since we've been there, though we are in desprate need of a revisit.

The South's in dire need of a revamp & for their own good. This country's tail really isn't in their hands, though many would think so, they need a good economy, good jobs, decent housing, good health care, a clean enviorment, a decent educational system & their young ones home from fighting on foreign soil as much as the rest of the nation. Anyone offering all that will get elected no matter where their from or the color of their skin or what's between their legs or who they do or do not worship, in bed or out of bed.

The nation has to also play their part & listen to the issues & not the petty bickerings that goes on between parties & candidates & ther hired guns & mudslingers.

"When fishes fly from tree to tree"
   
Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 07 - 08:09 PM

And he played the saxophone too.


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