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BS: Hillary is in the race for President

Little Hawk 26 Jan 07 - 02:04 PM
Bill D 26 Jan 07 - 02:35 PM
dianavan 26 Jan 07 - 03:07 PM
Don Firth 26 Jan 07 - 03:25 PM
Bill D 26 Jan 07 - 03:40 PM
Captain Ginger 26 Jan 07 - 04:07 PM
KB in Iowa 26 Jan 07 - 04:22 PM
Greg F. 26 Jan 07 - 06:20 PM
Bill D 26 Jan 07 - 06:41 PM
Captain Ginger 27 Jan 07 - 09:58 AM
Riginslinger 27 Jan 07 - 10:58 PM
Bill D 27 Jan 07 - 11:26 PM
TRUBRIT 28 Jan 07 - 03:00 AM
dianavan 28 Jan 07 - 03:13 AM
Little Hawk 28 Jan 07 - 03:25 AM
dianavan 28 Jan 07 - 03:52 AM
Riginslinger 28 Jan 07 - 09:24 AM
KB in Iowa 28 Jan 07 - 11:13 AM
Cruiser 28 Jan 07 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,Frank Hamilton 28 Jan 07 - 03:11 PM
Little Hawk 28 Jan 07 - 03:20 PM
Little Hawk 28 Jan 07 - 03:23 PM
Don Firth 28 Jan 07 - 03:27 PM
Cruiser 28 Jan 07 - 04:04 PM
Little Hawk 28 Jan 07 - 04:18 PM
Riginslinger 28 Jan 07 - 04:19 PM
Don Firth 28 Jan 07 - 05:13 PM
Little Hawk 28 Jan 07 - 05:17 PM
Wolfgang 29 Jan 07 - 07:12 AM
GUEST,MarkS 29 Jan 07 - 04:40 PM
Bill D 29 Jan 07 - 05:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Jan 07 - 06:27 PM
Little Hawk 29 Jan 07 - 06:41 PM
Bill D 29 Jan 07 - 06:42 PM
Little Hawk 29 Jan 07 - 06:46 PM
Bill D 29 Jan 07 - 06:51 PM
Stephen L. Rich 29 Jan 07 - 07:40 PM
Captain Ginger 30 Jan 07 - 03:18 AM
Riginslinger 30 Jan 07 - 07:31 AM
GUEST,Don Last 30 Jan 07 - 08:58 AM
Don Firth 30 Jan 07 - 12:42 PM
Little Hawk 30 Jan 07 - 01:06 PM
pdq 30 Jan 07 - 01:26 PM
tarheel 30 Jan 07 - 01:30 PM
KB in Iowa 30 Jan 07 - 01:31 PM
Amos 30 Jan 07 - 01:37 PM
Amos 30 Jan 07 - 01:44 PM
GUEST,Don Last 30 Jan 07 - 02:10 PM
Riginslinger 30 Jan 07 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,Always 30 Jan 07 - 02:25 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:04 PM

A lot of other things can make you unelectable too...like...

A not-so-pretty face. A vague resemblance to Herman Munster. Bad hair. A poor figure. A high voice. Not belonging to one of the two major political parties. Being female. Being non-white. Being a Jew. Being a Muslim. Being perceived as an "intellectual" rather than one of the common people!

All those, in the past, have made people unelectable as President of the United States.

Being Catholic used to also be a no-no till John Kennedy managed to overcome it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:35 PM

In many ways, elections were easier before photos, radio, TV...etc...we had to READ what the candidate said. Not everyone got to hear a live speech or talk to the candidate. Now it's just a race to see who can dig up the most negative data and 'spin' it in the cleverest way using flashy ads.

(A old cowboy was once accused of bragging. He replied, "Way I figger it, braggin' is when you got nothin' to back it up!".)

So...you don't like Hillary? At some point, you may get a vote on her...if Nevada, Iowa and New Hampshire haven't made all the decisions for you. Now THAT's the situation that needs fixing!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: dianavan
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:07 PM

Wolfgang - You're right. The article you linked said this about Obama.

"Aside from not being Hillary Clinton, Obama has little to offer the antiwar movement or proponents of an alternative U.S. strategy for the Middle East."

It may be that he doesn't want any Democrat but it may also be that both Hillary and Obama are both politicians who are not really so different than any other politician, left or right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:25 PM

Arrogant? She's quite self-confident. But arrogant?

Are you sure that the problem isn't that she just an "uppity woman?"

Please define arrogance and give three examples in which Hillary is demonstrating arrogance.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 03:40 PM

Anyone remember the Goldwater slogan.."In your heart, you know he's right"? That was a bit arrogant, too.

later parodied: "yeah...FAR right"


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:07 PM

I find her the most appealing of the various potential presidential candidates. OK, she's capable to fudging issues and appealing to the lowest common denominator, but that's axiomatic in politics. And she must be good for all the right wingers to hate her so much. Anyone who attracts so much shit from such sleazebags has to be OK in my books.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:22 PM

Iowa and New Hampshire being at the beginning and weilding so much influence is a huge issue here. It is fought over regularly and somehow the situation remains. As an Iowan I wouldn't mind seeing it change. The sh*t hits the fan here early, lasts way too long, and then we become irrelevant again.

The thing I do think is good is that our population is fairly small and we are a caucus state. The candidates actually have to get out and talk to people rather than just flooding the airwaves. If you don't see a candidate in person here then you aren't trying. You can't swing a deat cat without hitting one.

I don't know how much of that is population and how much is because we caucus rather than have a regular primary. Maybe it is just because we are the only show in town for a while. No matter, it seems like being first should rotate a bit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 06:20 PM

Being Catholic used to also be a no-no till John Kennedy managed to overcome it.

Right. How many Catholic U.S. presidents have there been since 1963?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 06:41 PM

" it seems like being first should rotate a bit."...Amen! I've been saying that for 5-6 years now. There should be a lottery..or a similar system...to rotate the primary schedule each 4 years. It would still 'favor' certain candidates at times, but would sure be an imporvement.
Better yet, NO primaries, but a system of candidate selection thru grass-roots organizations...then a set primary date for everyone where the final candidates are selected. And get money as far out of the way as possible...give every final candidate a budget and strict limits on how it can be spent.

Yeah, there are problems in the details, but it's a direction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 09:58 AM

Nothing to do with Hilary per se, but in another thread I wondered what the prospects of an avowed atheist would be. The US seems to be a place where a public profession of faith is seen as important. Would the electorate ever accept an atheist?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 10:58 PM

Frankly, I think America would have been much more likely to accept an Atheist before Ronald Reagan got elected. But since Reagan, the country has taken many, many giant steps backwards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 11:26 PM

I doubt an avowed atheist would ever get the nomination. Maybe someone with no affiliation who was very sneaky could avoid the issue long enough, but not easily.

(Eisenhower had to 'look around' for a church when he was running...his family had been Jehovah's Witnessesm but he found a nice, quiet Presbyterian church down the street in 1953).


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 03:00 AM

Does anyuone not think that when (that is WHEN and not IF) Hilary runs for President she wil not run as Hilary RODHAM Clinton.....

The woman is a genius -- she handled a public humiliation that would have broken most people and came through like a star......Bill will be Mr. First Man and will handle it well......


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 03:13 AM

I don't think an agnostic, let alone an atheist, would ever be elected in America.

Tradition would not permit it.

There has to be a Christmas tree on the Whitehouse lawn and there's all that swearing on the bible, hand over the heart, etc.

Do the Bush twins go to church? I doubt it. I never really believed George was a Methodist. I think he was brainwashed by Billy Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 03:25 AM

It's an amazing contrast to Canada, where I have never heard a public discussion of or even a reference to the religious affiliation...or lack of same...of one of our politicians. I mean, does anyone here care which church a Canadian politician goes to or whether he goes to any church at all? I know I don't.

The religious issue is deliberately being used to polarize and divide people in the USA. And so are the racial issues.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 03:52 AM

Littlehawk - I think thats because they are all pretty much Anglicans or Catholics. Nevertheless, they are all Christians. If we ever had a Jewish Prime Minister or a Jehovah, I'd be very surprised. Even the ex-Catholics are Catholic by birth. I would suspect that Trudeau might fall in that category.

Interesting, I never really thought about it. Its not really an issue in Canadian politics but I think its because its generally assumed that they are Christian. Some of our politicians in B.C. are Chinese and East Indian. I wonder what religions they practice? Nobody asks or seems to think it matters one way or another.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:24 AM

I don't think George W. knows what he is.

          That's interesting about Eisenhower, Bill D. It's a good thing he switched. It would have been awkward having to hand out copies of "The Watchtower" in the oval office.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 11:13 AM

George says he is a Methodist but the Methodist establishment has officially disowned him. Doesn't seem to make any difference.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Cruiser
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 03:03 PM

What kind of man would sit by his wife in a nationally televised interview while encouragingly letting her support his lie? That kind of man would be one who does not have the good character and integrity to remain as president or return to the White House on his wife's coattails.

What kind of woman would still defend her husband after she was made a fool of after she learned that she defended a liar? That would be one who should not be president, not for just this one reason alone, but also for other reasons that have been discussed in this thread and others.

Ms. Clinton seriously, and in her own words, thought all of this was just another part of the "vast right-winged conspiracy" against them. I too, as others have stated previously, disdain conspiracy theorists, especially one seeking the highest political office in the U.S. She exhibited a fatal character flaw by her statements.

The last 2 presidents have been polarizing and divisive. We do not need a third one. There are many Republicans, such as I, that will gladly vote for a thinking Democrat, but who will also do everything ethical to prevent Ms. and Mr. Clinton from ever *ruining* the country from the White House. An exceptional person is needed in the presidency to rebuild the ruin Mr. Bush and Mr. Clinton have done, each in their own destructive way.

I look forward to the day the USA has many women in places of political power, including the White House. However, Ms. Clinton can only further divide the country with all the political baggage she brings along with her. Many who think excellent character traits, honesty, honor, and trust still matter, regardless of political affiliations, will forever loathe Mr. Clinton.

Will some female please explain what an enabler is for those who do not see my reference to Hillary as being an enabler for Mr. Clinton's actions?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 03:11 PM

"Bush was unelectable."

Bush was not legally elected.

I will hold my nose and vote for Hillary if they run her against some Repuglycan.

But I will not support her. She has compromised in her position on Iraq. The Democratic base voted for the Democrats to get us out of Iraq and she is a stumbling block.

As for Biden, he was the one that thought Alito (in his Supreme Court nomination) was the "real deal". I don't think Biden is the real deal.

The only person that represents what I think that is running is Kucinich. It makes me believe that a Third Party system is in order.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 03:20 PM

But, hey, man the entire principle of a competitive 2-party system IS to polarize and divide people! That's what it's based on. It's exactly the same aggressive and divisive dynamic that drives the hype around a football game or a World Series! All their BS about "binding up the wounds" and finding consensus after a leadership campaign or an election is over is just that...total and absolute BS. They live to destroy one another. The $ySStem as it exists depends on people being polarized and divided! That's what makes good sound bites on the news. That's what employs radio talk show hosts. That's what gets headlines. That's what the sponsors want.

If you can't see this, it's because you have never really looked at the forest, being too distracted in focusing on the individual trees... (grin) I became aware of it way back in high school (in New York State) in those ridiculous student council elections which were set up exactly the way your national elections are. Two lots of "faces" are chosen, quite arbitrarily, I might add, to run "against" each other. Nobody really knows why! ;-) Everyone has to then decide who they are "for" and who they are "against", and then the nastiness begins. The nastiness was quite minor most of the time in high school, of course, but it was certainly there. They were planting the seeds that would get those young minds to go out and thoughtlessly support Democrats and Republicans for the rest of their lives...

Dianavan - You're right that it would be very difficult to get a Jew elected as Prime Minister of Canada...or a Jehovah's Witness. Both too far outside the mainstream of the majority. I think, though, that it is considered inappropriate in Canada for politicians to openly posture as "religious" to get them more votes when campaigning. That is certainly not so in the USA. That is the difference I was alluding to. Behaviour that is considered normal for a politician in the USA would be considered embarrassing and inappropriate in Canada.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 03:23 PM

That was directed at Cruiser, by the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 03:27 PM

Dennis Kucinich is the one that most closely represents my views as well. I bucked for him as hard as I could in my 2004 precinct caucus, and I will work for him again. But if Hillary turns out to be the candidate, barring some third party candidate who has a real chance, I will vote for her.

"Enabler?"

Cruiser, I refer you to something that I posted on this thread a week ago:

CLICKY.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Cruiser
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 04:04 PM

Don,

I read your post last week and I endeavor to read most of the previous posts before I add my comments. I just do not agree with you.

You and others avoid my main point regarding Ms. Clinton's "vast right-wing conspiracy" statement but justifiably ridicule others who post nonsensical conspiracy theories. A nonsensical conspiracy theory is a nonsensical conspiracy theory is a...

Little Hawk,

A third party will likely never be a viable political reality in the USA. The 2 party system is just fine if there are statesmen from both parties who will think problems through in an atmosphere of fairness and with a purpose higher than their political and financial gains.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 04:18 PM

Cruiser, I think you are quite right that a third party will never be viable in the USA. Unfortunate. But true. I think your hypothetical "if" is correct too, but I wonder when we will ever see it happen? The odds against it happening are tremendous, because most decisions come down to money, not fairness or justice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 04:19 PM

Frankly, I think a third party is the best way to save the country.

         I like Kucinich too, but I don't see any way in the world he could get the nomination.

         I would vote for Hillary unless somebody like Howard Dean or Kucinich was running on a third party ticket. But if that happened, it would most likely just elect a Republican.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 05:13 PM

Once again, I highly recommend First Democracy : The Challenge of an Ancient Idea, by Paul Woodruff.

If you want to know what a real democracy is (should be) like, and why our present so-called "democracy" is so screwed up, this will answer a lot of your questions. It's a fairly small book and very easy to read.

Is it biased? Yes. In favor of real democracy, as contrasted with what we have now and unwittingly call democracy.

Some folks don't think real democracy is a good idea, though.

By the way, some of it may really surprise you.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 05:17 PM

You are so right, Don!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 07:12 AM

The USA may be different, but there is an interesting puzzle in Germany which reminds me the Ms. Clinton electability problem.

When asked directly whether they would ever vote for a woman, a homosexual, an atheist roughly 5 - 10 %(nearer to 5 for a woman, nearer to 10 else) of the German population say never, under no circumstance. But when they actually vote this 5 to 10 % disadvantage disappears completely. Most of our elections are so close that a 10 % difference would mean a sure victory for the other side.

We now have a woman in office and two of our lands are governed by gays. One of them even announced it openly before the election and made the "confession" part of his campaign speech.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 04:40 PM

Ralph Nader, call your office. This year you just might get heard above the roar and get taken seriously.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 05:53 PM

I take Ralph Nader seriously...I just don't want him to be president.
He has one thing he's good at..let him keep doing it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 06:27 PM

If we ever had a Jewish Prime Minister or a Jehovah, I'd be very surprised.

Is your system so different from in the UK? I mean, you don't have Prime ministers elected by the public in general, it's whoever is leader of the party that wins the elction.

I know Michael Howard's lot got hammered here, but that wasn't because he was a Jew, it was because people didn't feel like trusting the Tories.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 06:41 PM

Yes, McGrath, but the party still tends to select a leader who they think will appeal to a broad cross section of the public. (given that though, it's still sometimes rather surprising what unappealing individuals they can come up with)

A Jewish or a JW candidate would be seen as a bit of a risk, and those guys really hate taking risks they don't have to. Similarly, a female candidate for the top job is a bit of a risk. It's been tried once, unsuccessfully.

It can always happen, though, that someone with extraordinary drive and tenacity breaks through such a barrier. Example: Margaret Thatcher in the UK. I detested her, but she was a tough one, no doubt about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 06:42 PM

Our system does have some major differences. There are good & bad things about that. We have no real mechanism for changing govts. except by election...or impeachment. This provides stability and predictability, but means that a 'leader' with 29% approval still is in there for 2 more years.


"Leader of the party" is not really a working concept here. We have "chairman" of the party...who is NOT the candidate, but more like an organizer between elections. It is a bit unusual that Howard Dean, who failed to become the candidate last time, was chosen to be chariman.
Candidates who lose in a National election 'usually' do not get a 2nd chance....for one thing, it's 4-8 years before they can even try, and by then there's a new crop. Kerry, for instance, knows that he collected all this baggage and bad press from NOT winning, and has decided not to try. (Al Gore, with his film, has better ratings, but still probably not enough to win.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 06:46 PM

Hell, Gore already won once. Poor guy.

On the other hand, maybe he was lucky... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 06:51 PM

Yeah...maybe so. Dealing with 9/11 was not easy....but he couldn't have messed it up WORSE than Bush.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 29 Jan 07 - 07:40 PM

BS: Hillary is in the race for President


There goes the neighborhood.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 03:18 AM

If we ever had a Jewish Prime Minister or a Jehovah, I'd be very surprised.
I think Benjamin Disraeli would be surprised if he could hear you say that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 07:31 AM

Al Gore would have to distance himself from Joe Lieberman if he wanted to run again this time. The way he distanced himself from Bill Clinton last time, which I always thought was a mistake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,Don Last
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 08:58 AM

I (Don) haven't posted much since being hit by lightning, but here I go at last. I believe the other Don is Firth, which sounds like First with a lisp.

If you think you have seen every dirty political trick in the book, Hillary will inspire the last right wing cons to come up with some new ones.
New insults of cheap partisanship from frightened and arrogant Repubs are sesigned to piss people off and further divide and conquer.

Hillary will not even be allowed to sing the National Anthem without intense critisism.

She is called dishonest for listening to public opinion rather than being a "true leader" and do whatever the defense contractors say.

A subliminal example of dirty tricks ocurred in Iowa this week when Senator Clinton appeared before a microphone with huge call letters of the station KUNI. The Roman font extentuated the cross bars on the I so it clearly read KUNT.

It used to be enough to keep populous candidates from running for president by requiring a stack of hundreds dollar bills 20 feet tall - just to campaign.

The usual rumor chants about Hillary include lesbianism and abortions. Now the current unsubstantiated Fox rumor says she hired a dectective to look into Obama's early training in a terrorist Muslim madrasa at the age of 6.

The issues of war and peace, life and death, and the predation of the Earth's enviorment will be overshadowed by issues such as Hillary's menopause that will put the world in danger.

Watch carefully as all the Repuvb sacks of pundits begin to say they were always against the war. I even heard Tucker Carlson say this yesterday while he went on to say that it is a complete TRADGEDY that Jeb Bush's chance for nomination have been dashed.
Well friends, Tradgedy is a pretty strong word but it reminds me of Mel Brooks saying "Tradgedy is when I get a paper cut, Comedy is when YOU fall in an open sewer and drown.

I wish all the comedy on all the sowardly TV War mongers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 12:42 PM

Wow! I've finally made it big! Elvis has imitators and now I have mine!

I do, however, think that GUEST,Don Last has captured the spirit of modern political in-fighting. Not quite as nasty as the time-honored Renaissance method of dealing with political opponents: a dagger thrust in the dark, a crossbow bolt fired from an upstairs window; but sufficient unto the era is the nastiness thereof.

Don Firth (Firth in the hearts of his countrymen. . . .) has left the building (for now).


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 01:06 PM

Yes. It is the inevitable sorry result of a political $ySStem based on 2 corrupt and phony parties who are wedded to patronage, bribery, and ruthless competition, all arranged around the ancient principle: "Divide (the public) and conquer (them)"


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 01:26 PM

It would be nice to see a more honest representation of the facts once in a while. George W. Bush has never had approval ratings in the 27-29% range, except for slanted polls based on 500-900 people, usually selected for some bias. His job approval has fallen from over 80% to 53%. Still, that is better than most two term presidents at the same time in their 5th or 6th years in office. Look at Truman and Carter numbers for comparison.

HOW BUSH IS HANDLING HIS JOB:   Approve, 53%

OPINION OF GEORGE W. BUSH:   Favorable, 53%

                      © 2005 Cable News Network LP, LLLP.
                      A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved.
                      Terms under which this service is provided to you.

Remember, this is from the Clintom News Network.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: tarheel
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 01:30 PM

i can't wait until each DEM/LIB begins jockeying for position to be the candidate for their party!!!
such dirty politics will have never been seen before...but wait!...then they all hug each other on tv as a UNITY thingy...oh heck...YUK!
who can stand it anyway!
Tar...


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 01:31 PM

Not to excuse the current crop but, the nastiness has actually been around a very long time. I have seen, for example, newspaper articles from the 19th century that were absolutely full of personal insults and attacks on the morals of the political oppostion. I think it is more subtle today which might make it more effective. When I hear or read outlandish claims it is usually pretty easy for me to dismiss them. When those claims are couched in terms that sounds reasonable it makes them harder to discredit.

Most of the negative material now comes from paid advertisements. Back in the day it came in the form of news since papers tended to be mouthpieces for a particular party. It was known which papers were shilling for which parties and I have wondered how much cross party readership there was, in this part of the U.S. an area often had two or three papers from which to choose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 01:37 PM

George W. Bush has never had approval ratings in the 27-29% range

Oh, I think he has, PDQ. I posted a link to one such report in the Popular Views thread a while ago, reporting on a poll done after the SOU address that was in that range. Characterizing it as "wrong" will not make it so, however. But to be fair I do not recall the number of samples.



A


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 01:44 PM

The Australian "theage.com.au" opines:

"
Bush's popularity hits new low




US President George Bush's popularity fell to a new low following his state of the nation speech this week, Newsweek has reported in its latest poll.

With two years left in the White House, only 30 per cent of the 1003 people polled said they approved of Bush's job performance, down from a high of 83 per cent approval at the beginning of 2002.

The poll was taken after Bush's annual State of the Union address delivered Tuesday, in which he announced a new Iraq strategy and major initiatives to improve health insurance coverage and to reduce US dependence on foreign oil.

A hefty 71 per cent of those surveyed said Bush would not have enough support over the next two years to "make a difference" in carrying out his decisions, compared with just 21 per cent who said he did.

The poll, which came days after several more politicians made moves to join the 2008 presidential race, including Democratic Senator Hillary Clinton, also tested registered voters on possible matchups in the November 2008 election. ..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,Don Last
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 02:10 PM

During the State of the Union "speech", FOX network had a real time approval rating of George's speech scrolling on the bottom of the screen for the entire speech.

In the first few moments it read 87% approval.




and it never waivered or changed in any way for the entire speech.


yet there are some people I am sure who fell for the whole thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 02:22 PM

It's amazing what passes for "news" on Fox.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary is in the race for President
From: GUEST,Always
Date: 30 Jan 07 - 02:25 PM

Firth, Last and Always now concur that Amos is correct 99% of the time.

The one thing that Amos is wrong about is his presumption that actual facts, logic and intelliegence is the heart of political planning, discourse, debate and decisions.

You see, Amos is woe to admit the truth regarding politics, and their represetatives the politicians, move only in EMOTIONAL directions and rely very little on facts and logic to obtain the wealth and market share they desire for the ruling class.

As a propogandist, I should know.

PS

Although I am a propogandist, I do not play one on TV.


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