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BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation

Slag 09 Jan 07 - 03:00 AM
Captain Ginger 09 Jan 07 - 03:08 AM
Slag 09 Jan 07 - 03:08 AM
Paul Burke 09 Jan 07 - 03:21 AM
Slag 09 Jan 07 - 03:34 AM
Paul Burke 09 Jan 07 - 04:06 AM
JeremyC 09 Jan 07 - 08:34 AM
jeffp 09 Jan 07 - 08:51 AM
John Hardly 09 Jan 07 - 08:53 AM
GUEST,Nun Smoker 09 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM
artbrooks 09 Jan 07 - 09:36 AM
Bill D 09 Jan 07 - 09:43 AM
Stilly River Sage 09 Jan 07 - 11:28 AM
Greg F. 09 Jan 07 - 02:27 PM
Scoville 09 Jan 07 - 03:20 PM
Wolfgang 09 Jan 07 - 03:56 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Jan 07 - 04:19 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Jan 07 - 06:34 PM
Slag 10 Jan 07 - 03:00 AM
Paul Burke 10 Jan 07 - 03:20 AM
Captain Ginger 10 Jan 07 - 03:33 AM
Slag 10 Jan 07 - 03:36 AM
GUEST,wacko 10 Jan 07 - 04:46 AM
Scrump 10 Jan 07 - 05:34 AM
Paul Burke 10 Jan 07 - 06:26 AM
JeremyC 10 Jan 07 - 08:30 AM
Don Firth 10 Jan 07 - 07:28 PM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 11 Jan 07 - 09:20 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 11 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM
kendall 11 Jan 07 - 09:30 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 11 Jan 07 - 09:50 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 11 Jan 07 - 09:51 AM
JeremyC 11 Jan 07 - 10:22 AM
Amos 11 Jan 07 - 10:46 AM
Bill D 11 Jan 07 - 11:06 AM
Amos 11 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM
kendall 11 Jan 07 - 01:11 PM
Don Firth 11 Jan 07 - 10:58 PM
guitar 12 Jan 07 - 08:44 AM
guitar 12 Jan 07 - 08:46 AM
guitar 12 Jan 07 - 09:50 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Slag
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 03:00 AM

If the Christians' God hated "fags" why did He send His Son to die in their stead??? It's been said before: God hates SIN but loves sinners. A lot of folks imagine that God's Laws are like a net; you can break a line or two here and there but if you're doing OK on the rest you'll get by. Not so! God's Laws are like a tightrope. Break any one of them and it's "game over". Hence, NO ONE can keep God's Laws. We, as a race are incapable of doing so. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is none righteous, no, not one." The "fag" is no more guilty than the liar, the thief, the cheat, the blasphemer, etc. For some one to call themselves "Christian" and then judge someone else is ludicrous. This is the point of Jesus' hyperbole of the man with a beam in his own eye trying to remove the mote from his brother's eye.

I think it's safe to say that anyone who espouses the view that God hates "fags" is pretty weak on theology if, indeed, they are a Christian at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 03:08 AM

Christian homophobia is bubbling away in the UK at the moment, with protests today at proposals to outlaw discrimination against gay people.
The proposals were implemented in Northern Ireland at the start of the year (where such measures can be imposed because the orange lads can't seem to accept the green lads and therefore no-one gets to host the tea party) but will not be brought into action on the mainland until April, following debate at Westminster. Today a wee protestant fellow in the House of Lords has tabled a 'prayer' to protest at the embrace of sodomites, while outside the House evangelical christians are to be joined by orthodox jews and muslims in a torchlight protest.
Funny how torchlight protests so often seem to be connected with spreading darkness and preventing light!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Slag
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 03:08 AM

PS fellow 'Catters, it's just as wrong to condemn this Phelps guy for his egregious mistakes. Pray for his enlightenment and repentance. God loves him too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisatio
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 03:21 AM

What's the fag not guilty of, Slag?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Slag
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 03:34 AM

Didn't say that Pablo. Re-read my post! PPS "Whatsoever is not of faith, is sin!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisatio
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 04:06 AM

The "fag" is no more guilty than the liar, the thief, the cheat, the blasphemer, etc.

What's the fag not guilty of?

Faith? Echoing bronx (cheers).


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: JeremyC
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 08:34 AM

You know, if Jesus really did say to love your neighbor as thyself--I'm what you might call an active proponent of "self-love," so I'm sure that if I were to "love" my neighbor, I'd be following Jesus's will regardless of the neighbor's gender. And you know it's not Onanism if it doesn't hit the ground!

I'd love to see a Christian introducing himself to his new neighbors by sticking his hand down their pants.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: jeffp
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 08:51 AM

Hey Paul, read more carefully. Slag didn't say that the "fag" wasn't guilty of anything. He said that he wasn't any more guilty than the other sinners. That one word makes all the difference. Don't ignore it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: John Hardly
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 08:53 AM

"But don't hold your breath."

No need. It's done all the time. It'd be hard to find an evangelical leader that wouldn't condemn the likes of Phelps. In fact, that's probably why you haven't read them doing so. In order for you to have read it:

1. You'd actually have to hear from an evangelical leader from time to time.

2. The news would have to deem such a condemnation newsworthy, but at this point such a condemnation would amount to yet another dog bites man story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisatio
From: GUEST,Nun Smoker
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM

God hates fags- that's why Mary's cut down to 10 a day now, and promised to get a new set of curlers. Jesus has knocked off the Holy Spirit for a new year's resolution, though I bet it won't last long, and anyway where's all the communion wine gone, they don't call him the Last Supper because he goes to bed early? The Angel Gabriel has been warned off annunciating to any more virgins. Moses has given up going down in Egypt's land. Mary Magdalen has promised to sin no more than she ought to. And as for Saint peter's cock....


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisatio
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 09:36 AM

When his group shows up here for the burial of a serviceman/woman, the "mainstream" Christians - that would be everything from Evangelicals to Episcopalians - show up to object. So does a very large veterans' biker group.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 09:43 AM

Just saying "I don't hate fags" seems to me to show a bias in thinking.

Your language tells a lot about you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 11:28 AM

Art started the point I had in mind to mention--Phelps is from Oklahoma, I think (the Wiki page was taking too long to load, but we hear about Phelps here in Texas because of the proximity), and torments folks in surrounding states. There are laws passed now that keep he (and others of his ilk, but I believe his is pretty much alone in this level of ilkiness) a set distance away from funerals.

The Bible is full of fairly neutral references to homosexuality, as it happens. I'm not going to cite chapter and verse because I haven't read it closely, but there are a number of biblical scholars who can and do. Check out the subject matter for the NPR programs The Diane Rehm Show and/or Fresh Air. I know I've heard these discussions within the last year or so. The trouble is that the Bible is an anthology meant for didactic purposes--i.e., "what would YOU do differently in this instance?" When some of these folks take it literally the problems ensue, especially when they are so selective in their reading of the book. I think one of the more recent books is a Jewish scholar taking on the misreadings of the Bible. Pretty interesting stuff!

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisatio
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 02:27 PM

It'd be hard to find an evangelical leader that wouldn't condemn the likes of Phelps

OK - Then find me a couple or a half dozen, for a start. In print. Directed to a mass audience. (no pun intended.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Scoville
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 03:20 PM

Wiki says he was born in Meridian, Mississippi, and runs the church out of Topeka, Kansas (the Evolution Friendly State).


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisatio
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 03:56 PM

Is the New Testament so much better in this respect?

1 Corinthians 6:

Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers-none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 1, 26f:

For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 04:19 PM

Okay, next state up. I must have read about his antics in Oklahoma, then. At any rate, he's infamous for his nasty view of the world and most of the people in it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 06:34 PM

God loves sinners? Oh good, so do I ((well, some of them, at least).


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Slag
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 03:00 AM

News Flash... Mudcatters hate God!!! Read the above! Yup, that's about as fallacious as saying Christians hate "fags". I keep using the term "fag" but I put it in quotes because it is NOT the term I use. It's the term as quoted by Tom Hamiltion. I'd venture to say that some Mudcatters DO hate God. Do they all? I, for one, don't. Some Mudcatters may hate homosexuals. I, for one, don't. And I resent people trying to color myself and other Cristians with the broad brush. It's dishonest.

Did God create pigs, mice and frogs? I would say so. According to the Jewish Torah they are unclean animls and/or abominations! Why? I don't know. It was a prohibition given to the Jews at the time when the Laws were handed down. Why do I have to drive at 55mph on roads that were once considered safe at 65 mph? God only knows and it's a real struggle for me to keep it at 55 (mainly because I'm blocking traffic!). In Christian theology only one was ever able to live a life without sin. To quote Leonard Cohen, "Only drowning men can see Him..." I believe in God's Grace because that's the only way I'm gonna make it. I live my life in this world in a body of death ("it is appointed unto Man once to die" and "the wages of sin is death"). The verdict was in and the sentence passed in the Beginning. Graveyards everywhere give mute testimony to the truth of that statement. I threw myself on the mercy of the Court and received a pardon from ALL my sins. Man, what a release! I'm free spiritually and I no longer HAVE to obey the desires of the flesh whatever they may be. As I quoted above "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin."   I acknowledge God and seek His guidance and trust that He is establishing the path I take. If I misstep He lets me know and He keeps letting me know until I get back on the road He wants me on. OK, have some fun with that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisatio
From: Paul Burke
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 03:20 AM

Well Slag you're keeping this irony up well. No, you're NOT forgiven. It might make your poor warped character feel better to think that someone has cleansed you, but it's just childish self delusion, mummy kiss me better stuff.

Grow up, face the world. Glad you don't hate homosexuals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 03:33 AM

How can I hate something that doesn't exist? It's like saying that someone hates the Tooth Fairy, Father Christmas or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I would say that any Mudcatter who did profess to hate god (or any other abstract man-made construct) would be in need of psychiatric help.
Atheism has nothing to do with hating god. In its more intolerant forms it has much to do with exasperation at those humans who invoke god to justify their own prejudices and predilections; an exasperation that at times can spill over into dislike or contempt.
But, to err is human, as they say...


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Slag
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 03:36 AM

No problemo! Your choice! Honest choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisatio
From: GUEST,wacko
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 04:46 AM

why is it that 'christians' of all colours
quote more often from the old testament, or
from the words of paul the troubled, than the sweetly
redemptive jesus himself? always wonder about that..
of course christ wasn't a christian was he...
so much weirdness in the world..sigh...


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Scrump
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 05:34 AM

Far from hating anyone, God doesn't seem to give a toss about His creations. Why should He, when each of us is of infinitely less significance to Him than an ant is to a human? That's why I can never understand why he would be bothered about anyone blaspheming Him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisatio
From: Paul Burke
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 06:26 AM

He's a jealous god, he said so. Always looking out for offence, so he can forgive you. Of course, he knew you were going to do it anyway. Just as he made homosexuals that way, so he could tell them not to do it again.

How come the problem never got mentioned in the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount, any of the parables(*), the Apostles' Creed, or the Thirty-Nine Articles, since it seems to be the main interest of modern Christians (proper ones, not liberals)?

(*) apart from the Gay Samaritan, Dives and Lads-R-Us, the Fag Tree and the Wise and Foolish Lesbians.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: JeremyC
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 08:30 AM

"He's a jealous god, he said so."

Maybe God hates fags because he's jealous and wants all the men to Himself? I THINK I'M ONTO SOMETHING.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 07:28 PM

Assuming that what we refer to as "God" actually represents some super-intelligent entity out there in the Cosmos, I tend to think that humankind bears approximately the same relationship to that "God" that bacteria on a Petri dish bear to the lab technician. And vice versa.

"But they say that God marks the fall of every sparrow."

"Yes. But the sparrow still falls."*

Don Firth

*Paraphrase from Mary Doria Russell's extraordinary novel, The Sparrow. One of the best novels I've ever read.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 09:20 AM

to Guest Wullie,

I am not a nutter, I'm a born again Christian, which mean that I like many others are born again of the holy spirit, that's all it means.

So don't you ever call me or my friends nutters unless you have proof.

and there is a God, I mean who do you think created this universe and you.

we are createted in God's image.

oh by the way I don't agree with these nutters.

Tom


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM

Sorry about that.

However I know what it means to born again, and I know between me an my God that i'm no nutter.

Love and God bless

Tom


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: kendall
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 09:30 AM

I have a hard time with people who claim to know what God wants and thinks.Any entity that can create the universe and all that is in it hardly needs people like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson or Fred Phelps to speak for him/her/it. None of that gang has any credibility with me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 09:50 AM

I don't believe that God hates anyone,


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 09:51 AM

And I don't believe that when you die that you will end up down in Hell because God doesn't want that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: JeremyC
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 10:22 AM

Tom,

Dude. This is a guy who protests at soldiers' funerals, claiming that they died in Iraq because the US is somehow "tolerant" of homosexuality. Yes, he calls himself a christian, but anyone can call themselves anything--it's actions that count. Do you want to be associated with this man as a "fellow christian"? Even the hardcore fundies here in the US decline to be associated with him. I submit that you're taking the principle of "brotherhood" too far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 10:46 AM

From BWL's link above:

"In 1955, while being sodomized in a Topeka motel by a burly man known only as "Cletus", Fred Phelps had a vision of the Angel Conveniently Made Up. The angel admonished Phelps, saying unto him "Yea, for in the eyes of the Lord God fags are no good at all, and He hates fags, and thou art condemned to eternal hellfire for thy sinful buggery," Phelps, stunned, fell prostrate and begged the angel if there was no way to repent for his sins.

Thus quieried, the angel said, "Of course: as thy asshole hath offended the Lord our God, thou must become the largest asshole in the world to cleanse thy sinnery."

Phelps, thus charged by the angel, took the message to heart and finished his sodomy session without the customary reach-around and showed Cletus the door. After cleaning up, Phelps set out to form a new ministry to spread the words of the vision he had received. However, having only a precious few words from the angel from which to make a covenant with the Lord, Phelps parsed the most valuable lesson he could wrap his IQ of upwards of 85 around:

"God does not like fags in the least." But this had too many words, and eventually became "God hates fags." "

So that's how this all began...



A


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 11:06 AM

*stifling paroxysms of giggles*


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 12:08 PM

Guys like Phelps are essentially nutballs as foar as those who work in the common universe are concerned.

People become nutballs from a variety of causes. One is emotional and physical trauma, acute or chronic. Another is unresolved confusions which can arise, for example, from being lied to about the world and hammered with false information, making it impossible tot hink straight. This is sort of "cognitive abuse" that makes nmorons out of potentially intelligent individuals. It is often passed down through generations, because parents act out lessons they never understood and force them on their young.

You can't make good or pragmatic decisions if you have a falsified understanding of the situation you are deciding about. And if that situation is existence itself, you are liable to make some really lame ones.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: kendall
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 01:11 PM

How about Pat Robertson advocating assassination?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 10:58 PM

Not everyone who calls himself a "Christian" is.

Even if he feels absolutely certain that he is.

In fact, there's a lot of that going around. And there has been right from the start.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: guitar
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 08:44 AM

Well I think that Tom tries to be a Christain and I respect his views, even though sometimes he's wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: guitar
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 08:46 AM

I'm Tom,

And I do not want to be associated with him or his kind. and I'm sorry for written all that stuff.

Tom


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Subject: RE: BS: Fred Phelps & 'God hates fags' organisation
From: guitar
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 09:50 AM

I'm glad that thread 'no longer a member is closed' thanks whoeverr done it


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