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BS: Killing Saddam

Slag 31 Dec 06 - 07:57 PM
GUEST,Stevie D 31 Dec 06 - 01:13 PM
kendall 31 Dec 06 - 07:26 AM
Slag 31 Dec 06 - 12:27 AM
GUEST 30 Dec 06 - 09:53 PM
Uncle_DaveO 30 Dec 06 - 12:08 PM
Uncle_DaveO 30 Dec 06 - 11:52 AM
GUEST,Welnack 30 Dec 06 - 10:54 AM
John on the Sunset Coast 30 Dec 06 - 10:40 AM
GUEST,Welnack 30 Dec 06 - 10:36 AM
JennyO 30 Dec 06 - 06:38 AM
GUEST 30 Dec 06 - 02:15 AM
JennyO 29 Dec 06 - 11:19 PM
Slag 29 Dec 06 - 11:18 PM
Slag 29 Dec 06 - 11:16 PM
Sorcha 29 Dec 06 - 11:15 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 29 Dec 06 - 11:11 PM
Sorcha 29 Dec 06 - 10:40 PM
voyager 29 Dec 06 - 10:31 PM
GUEST 29 Dec 06 - 10:24 PM
Sorcha 29 Dec 06 - 10:19 PM
dick greenhaus 29 Dec 06 - 09:53 PM
Rapparee 29 Dec 06 - 09:47 PM
GUEST 29 Dec 06 - 09:41 PM
GUEST 29 Dec 06 - 09:39 PM
Uncle_DaveO 29 Dec 06 - 09:24 PM
GUEST 29 Dec 06 - 09:13 PM
Uncle_DaveO 29 Dec 06 - 09:04 PM
pdq 29 Dec 06 - 08:43 PM
GUEST 29 Dec 06 - 08:31 PM
Rapparee 29 Dec 06 - 08:30 PM
GUEST,Cruz 29 Dec 06 - 08:15 PM
Emma B 29 Dec 06 - 08:11 PM
Alba 29 Dec 06 - 08:06 PM
Bobert 29 Dec 06 - 05:43 PM
Slag 29 Dec 06 - 05:37 PM
GUEST,Cruz 29 Dec 06 - 04:36 PM
dianavan 29 Dec 06 - 03:32 PM
Stilly River Sage 29 Dec 06 - 03:23 PM
Amos 29 Dec 06 - 03:07 PM
ard mhacha 29 Dec 06 - 02:50 PM
GUEST 29 Dec 06 - 02:37 PM
GUEST,Cruz 29 Dec 06 - 02:30 PM
Bill D 29 Dec 06 - 02:11 PM
beardedbruce 29 Dec 06 - 02:08 PM
Ebbie 29 Dec 06 - 01:51 PM
Bill D 29 Dec 06 - 01:34 PM
Teribus 29 Dec 06 - 01:21 PM
Greg B 29 Dec 06 - 12:31 PM
Emma B 29 Dec 06 - 12:15 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Slag
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 07:57 PM

kendall, consider police proceedure and how it came about. They spend a LOT of time learning "shoot-don't shoot" scenarios.

If someone is in your house, ostensibly stealing your TV set, here are some things you should consider:

1. They do not have a regard for the law. To what exent you don't know but they are IN YOUR HOUSE!

2. Is the TV the only thing they are after? How would you know?

3. Are they armed? How would you know?

4. Are there other robbers you don't see? Are they armed?

5. Do they intend you harm regardless of what you THINK they intend? How would you know?

Taking another person's life is something I hope I NEVER have to do. I would hate to have to live with that in my memory to the day I die. I know others who have, one of them being a police officer. He was in a "kill or be killed" situation and had to take the man's life. He was off work for a year. He went back in a limited capacity but finally had to quit the force. Floyd was their "go-to" guy for bad situations. He was a big burly man, solid and a very stable personality but taking a nother person's life shook him to the core.

Still, I would not hesitate to shoot someone in my house, a burglar, if I were not in complete control of the situation. My first course of action, were it possible, would be to leave the premises and call the police. Nothing I own is worth my life or his. But my family is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 01:13 PM

Hi All
Been finding it hard to have a discussion about this without people getting very immotive in theyre hatred. just like to say that it was good that Saddam was tried by his people in a democratic process, the sentence passed was within the rights of the country, and in the name of the people. But i really cant see why people in the western world who werent directly involved are filled with such hatred. people seem to think its ok to take a mans life in this way, perhaps they will behave the same way next time some unfortunate person gets theyre head hacked off by some obscure group claiming to be doing the work of Allah. if we cant rise above our hatred, how are we ever going to show our enemy that our way of life is the right one. and we can all live in peace and harmony, i have no affection for Saddam, and hate what he stood for, but an eye for an eye will make us all blind....i would also like to point out that i am not a lentil munching sandal wearing liberal. i have always voted Conservative.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: kendall
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 07:26 AM

Not to disagree with anyone in particular, but, and eye for an eye does not mean a life for a TV set. It means you may not exceed the original crime with a worse one.
Bill D, your question demands an answer. Here it is. If ANYONE came into my house with murder or mayhem on his mind I would protect myself and my wife and dog. Naturally. If I caught him stealing my tv set, I would NOT shoot him. A life for a tv set? Ridiculous.

"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth only makes the whole world blind and toothless." (Mahatma Gahndi)


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Slag
Date: 31 Dec 06 - 12:27 AM

Obviously GUEST (???), you don't realize that the Bible is also one of Islam's Holy Books.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 09:53 PM

I was only commenting upon how bizarre it seems that people here think quoting biblical passages to Muslims living in a secular state would make one iota of difference to their debating whether or not to use the death penalty.

A bit too Christian-centric for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 12:08 PM

GUEST, in all candor I ought to enlarge on what I just posted.

I draw a distinction between "a secular nation" or "a secular culture" and "a secular state". What you have described is a definition (not the only possible one) of a secular state, and in that way you are right. But that's not what I was writing about, and not what the discussion in this thread was about. You (or some other GUEST) had just referred to "a predominantly Muslin NATION", and asked why they would pay attention to the Bible. I was addressing that.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:52 AM

GUEST, I set "secular" to one side because I didn't want to write about it. It wasn't germane to what I had to say, because I believe Iraq is anything but a secular country.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST,Welnack
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 10:54 AM

Close enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 10:40 AM

Welnack, I believe that 100,000 number has been discredited almost as soon as it was released. You might want to check that out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST,Welnack
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 10:36 AM

An "evil dictator" is a friend of the United States when he is ready to do business, and a mortal enemy when he is not. Far many more Iraqis have died due to the war Bush started than were killed by Saddam in the years prior to the invasion. The total number of civilian Iraqi deaths may well be more than 100,000. (The equivalent loss for the United States would be more than 1 million people.) Perhaps it should be Bush's neck in a noose!


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: JennyO
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 06:38 AM

I think that's because all the action is happening over on the other Saddam thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 02:15 AM

Well, Saddam sure killed this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: JennyO
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 11:19 PM

100 - for what it's worth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Slag
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 11:18 PM

Oops!, Wrong Thread!, er, rope.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Slag
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 11:16 PM

Dumper music?


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 11:15 PM

Well, it was video taped. I wonder how long til it shows up on the web?


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 11:11 PM

Saddam Hussein has been hanged. While I am not sorry about his execution, I find unseemly the bumper music played on a local Los Angeles radio station to celebrate this event...the piece escapes me but it is on the order of the Hallelujah Chorus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 10:40 PM

Or if we'll get the Last Words, Last Meal, pictures with circles and arrows on the back explaining what each one is to be used as evidence....


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: voyager
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 10:31 PM

Been All Around This World


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 10:24 PM

I wonder if he was presented with the 'red card' prior to hanging?


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 10:19 PM

Well, whatever your opinion, it's over. He's dead. So it says now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 09:53 PM

BFD
It's a continuation of the kind of phony legality that was established with the Nurnberg trials. Granted, the bastard deserves punishment, but there's no legal basis (except for the fact that he lost) for the US to have anything to do with it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 09:47 PM

Surah 42:40 40. The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah. for ((Allah)) loveth not those who do wrong.

Surah 5:32. On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

33. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;


From the Holy Qu'ran.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 09:41 PM

And your suggestion that Iraq's Muslims can somehow be swayed for/against the death penalty by biblical argument is absolutely bizarre.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 09:39 PM

Does Iraq have an official state religion?

If it does not, that makes it a secular state.

So why, Dave, do you think you can just set the secular to one side?

The US is also a secular nation. We do not use religion to justify capital punishment.

Now, plenty of Americans use their private faith to rationalize that capital punishment is morally right or morally wrong. But that doesn't mean they can set aside secular arguments--for or against--aside.

Your suggestion that secular governments need not look for secular legal arguments is...disturbing, to say the least. Fundamentalist religious views are not the tenets upon which secular nations are founded. Period.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 09:24 PM

"Secular" to one side, because I'm not sure that it's operationally factual as to Iraq, but Islam is one of the "book religions". What we call the Old Testament is part of their holy books, and since they highly honor Jesus as one of the Major Prophets, I assume the New Testament (or at least parts of it) has a place, too.

That said, I think the Old Testament would be more persuasive to them than the new. And I don't know what the Koran says as to the concept of "an eye for an eye" or the like. I expect you can find passages in the Koran taking every possible approach to that concept. Therefore, "The Devil can quote scripture to his own purpose," as has been said.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 09:13 PM

Why on earth would a secular, predominantly Muslim nation, look to the Christian Bible for guidance on capital punishment?


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 09:04 PM

Stigweard said, in part:

While I agree with this and some of your other comments Dave (I certainly disapprove of the sentence, not the verdict though), to say it's OK because Iraqi law says it is means you legitimise every judicial killing

Stigweard, show me where I said it was OK. I didn't. I said it was not murder, which is a tremendously emotional, pejorative term which tends to prevent a rational analysis.

As a matter of fact, if I were the judge who had to impose sentence, I would have had a hard time (as they perhaps did), not so much on humanitarian grounds as on the grounds that his execution may be counterproductive by making him a martyr, a red flag that can be waved around to justify anything. Some will say that's a political consideration. Yes, it is. But every judge who imposes a penalty for a crime necessarily has in mind the perception of the rest of the population.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: pdq
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 08:43 PM

Too bad he didn't ask to borrow a Grateful Dead concert.

I'm sure I could have edited one down to three hours.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 08:31 PM

He could watch Lord of the Rings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 08:30 PM

According to Al-Jazeera, Saddam has about 3 hours to live.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST,Cruz
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 08:15 PM

Emma,

Look at it this way. If they hang Sad, the precedent will have been set to similarly punish bush for Iraqi war crimes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 08:11 PM

There is no pleasure to be gained from "I told you so" but I fear what this "revenge" will accomplish


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Alba
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 08:06 PM

Just saw on the TV that his execution will take place tonight 12.29.06 at 10.00pm ET.
no comment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 05:43 PM

As for the legitimacy of the current Iraqi government: BS...

"Existing Iraqi law" is more BS...

Hey, folks, inspite of the fact that T-zer says there ain't no war going on in Iraq I don't see qwhere he is closin' Iraq as a vacation destination... There ***is*** a war going on...

(But, Bobert, who declared it???)

Who cares??? Declarations of war aren't the only measures of war...

But if you believe that there isn't a war going on Iraq then it's easy to throw out garbage like "existing Iraqi law" and, hey, if one is so inclined to argue a such a flat-earth position then what come into play is something I once heard in a socail workers woprkshop and that was: You can't argue with a crazy person...

So, yeah, if T-bird's position there isn't a war going on then all of his other positions can and should be taken as those of a crazy person...

Just an observation... No judegemnt...

Now as for the casualties: When I threw out the 100,000 number a while back I got the blast... I was called a lunatic and now a days those throwing the the grenades at me are the ones who are perfectly willing to accept the 100,000 number... Hmmmmmmm?

But the current grenade launchers here in Mudville really don't have a clue how many Iraqis have died... Nor do I... But lets get real here... Spouting numbers in the 50,000's is like sayin' the sky is is green... Proclamation, while making the grenade launchers fell all smug, doesn't actually make what they are sayin' accurate...

While I care deeply about every person who has died from the Bush invasion the number isn't the entire ball of wax here... But lets keep it in some perspective and when a methodology, which includes death certificates and family interviews, comes up with 650,000 and the Bushites here insisting on some McNamara/Nixon body count standard then it, as per in the past, makes the Bush apologists arguments look like Swiss cheeze... Okay, what if it's only 400,000, or even 300,000??? It sho nuff ain't what the US/Bush/governemtn wants us to know and that, given the rest of the lies they have allready been caught telling, is easily accepted...

Yet the Bush apologists here continue on their blind little journey down Karl Rove's PR pipe-dream and spout this stuff out as if it were fact... Problem is that Bush and you apologists here have major credibilty problems and you are quickly running out of time... That hot breath on the back of your necks is the breath of truth and everyone knows it, except you true believers...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Slag
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 05:37 PM

In the KJV the word "kill" used in the Ten Commandments is actually "murder". This undoubtedly doesn't progress the debate as the semantics of "murder" is just as volatile as "kill" but at least it is a more accurate picture.

In Ecclesiastes the writer, alledged to have been Solomon ("Qoheleth" or..."he that crieth in the Hall" or " The Preacher") declares that there is a time and a season unto every purpose.

When we are living in comfort, half a world away we can debate our philosophical hearts out. When confronted with life or death choices at a moment's notice, what we do reflects what we truly believe and what is truly in our hearts.

And we may not even agree with ourselves (and herein lies the "double nested 'DO loop' behind post traumatic stress); with what we do when we don't have the luxury of debate. Reality bites, hard.

The reality of Iraqi jurisprudence may be distastful but it is what it is and we must deal with THAT reality and our REAL situation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST,Cruz
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 04:36 PM

"can't see beyond the act of his death--it isn't an end of anything"

Exactly. The violence will increase to the point public opinion of the "war" will swell to the point we will be forced to leave. Saddam's hanging is the catalyst we need...and he deserves it although it was for 141 deaths, not the many thousands bush and cheney have tolled.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 03:32 PM

One thing for sure, dead men don't talk.

I'd like to know more about U.S. involvement with Saddam prior to the invasion. I guess we'll never know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 03:23 PM

The Bible is an anthology, edited over the years by a heavy hand. Many of the didactic stories are meant to teach, not meant to be taken literally. Do you think this outcome is fair? What would you do instead? was lost as part of the dialog along the way. The storyteller [often a trickster] was replaced by the tyrant, who justifies acts by misreading the test.

If Saddam is killed tomorrow as a result of actions by George W. Bush, the invading U.S. troops will be an even more precarious situation than they are in today. And if Saddam is killed tomorrow, after all of the linkages and hype that Bush has managed to generate in his myth-making leading up to the invasion and continued presence in Iraq, those terrorists viewing Western, particularly American, targets, will have been given carte blanche.

Those who want to see Saddam executed for all of his crimes (those that the U.S. administration took umbrage over) can't see beyond the act of his death--it isn't an end of anything, it is only the beginning. And John Kerry was right about who ends up fighting in Iraq. It Takes Courage to Tell the Truth.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Amos
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 03:07 PM

In any case, Saddam has officially been turned over to the jurisdiction of an appointed Iraqi judge and the Iraqis will do to him as they see fit. It is no longer a question of American culture, but of Iraqi culture. This leaves little doubt as to where Mr Hussein will be on Saturday.

It would be nice to believe that seeing Iraq's token poobah of oppression meet a "just" end would go a long way to healing the internecine and tribal strife of Iraq, but I am sorry to say I find that palpably Pollyannoid and improbable.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: ard mhacha
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 02:50 PM

The death penalty is part of US culture, George Bush enjoyed his time as Governor of Texas sending people to their doom, so most people in the US won`t be put out by another death sentence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 02:37 PM

Matthew 38-39

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: GUEST,Cruz
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 02:30 PM

Excellent points Mr. D.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 02:11 PM

but the "new testament" is only relatively newer, and the precise dates of any book, old or new, are conjecture. It is not as if Matthew read Ezekiel and asked for a ruling. The bible is a bunch of writings by guys who may never have even heard of each other....it is not like reading a series of rulings in constitutional law, with detailed citings of what superceeded what.

I suppose if you were to ask 27 clergymen, you 'might' get a majority saying interpretation "X" is favored over "Y", but that hardly constitutes clarification.

(If someone can show me where the matter seems to be settled and adjudicated once & for all, I'd be most happy to study it.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 02:08 PM

How many Iraqi civilians have died as a result of the war?
By Fred Kaplan
Posted Friday, Oct. 29, 2004, at 6:49 PM ET
The authors of a peer-reviewed study, conducted by a survey team from Johns Hopkins University, claim that about 100,000 Iraqi civilians have died as a result of the war. Yet a close look at the actual study, published online today by the British medical journal the Lancet, reveals that this number is so loose as to be meaningless.

The report's authors derive this figure by estimating how many Iraqis died in a 14-month period before the U.S. invasion, conducting surveys on how many died in a similar period after the invasion began (more on those surveys later), and subtracting the difference. That difference—the number of "extra" deaths in the post-invasion period—signifies the war's toll. That number is 98,000. But read the passage that cites the calculation more fully:

We estimate there were 98,000 extra deaths (95% CI 8000-194 000) during the post-war period.

Readers who are accustomed to perusing statistical documents know what the set of numbers in the parentheses means. For the other 99.9 percent of you, I'll spell it out in plain English—which, disturbingly, the study never does. It means that the authors are 95 percent confident that the war-caused deaths totaled some number between 8,000 and 194,000. (The number cited in plain language—98,000—is roughly at the halfway point in this absurdly vast range.)

This isn't an estimate. It's a dart board.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 01:51 PM

I think Greg B means, Bill D, is that while your quotes came from the Old Testament, there is a newer ruling, as given in the New Testament. I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 01:34 PM

"...the Christian supercession of the second quotation
in the book of Matthew...." ??? I'm not sure of the point. Do you mean there is some 'official' version of which biblical passages are 'ok'?(whatever THAT might mean in 100 conflicting Christian doctrines)

Whatever supercession you might cite, my point remains....Christians can & do find biblical support for almost any point of theology under debate. The bible is full of 'slewings', from Sampson to the stoning of harlots.....and the libraries are full of analyses debating whether they 'really' meant it was ok or not.

You really want to comprehend the arguments about 'rights' and 'fairness' and 'value'? Read Kant's Fundamental Principles of the Metaphysics of Morals and 20-30 other philosophical works. If you are an honest man, you will emerge more confused than ever....and very likely become a pragmatist. Which will get you many disputes with other pragmatists over which opinion is the more pragmatic.

Bottom line: it is not a simple issue, and our challenge is to try to create a world in which death sentences are not needed...and in the meantime to cope & adjust.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 01:21 PM

Tried in an Iraqi Court, in accordance with Iraqi Law, for crimes committed against the Iraqi people.

Verdict Guilty - Sentence Death by hanging

Appeal rejected - Sentence to be carried out within 30 days in accordance with Iraqi Law.

As opposed to the death penalty as I am, I can see why this man must be executed in accordance with due process of Iraqi Law. Those he tortured, maimed and terrorised for 24 years must see that he has been brought to book and executed. That gives them closure with the complete and utter certainty that he cannot be returned to power.

Bobert ask the statisticians at John Hopkins who wrote this report you are so keen to peddle how many Iraqi civilians have been killed. The answer you will get will not be anywhere near 650,000. The statisticians from John Hopkins who wrote the report NEVER said 650,000 Iraqi civilians had been killed. What they said was MAY HAVE BEEN and that is very different.

It seems really odd that everybody who has tried to ascertain the actual death toll has completely discounted the figures you so ardently adhere to, they have done so for very good reasons Bobert.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Greg B
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 12:31 PM

Bill D...

To state:

>Yes...same with Christianity..."Thou shalt not kill" is in the same >book with "an eye for an eye", and a passage can be found supporting >ANY interpretation

ignores the Christian supercession of the second quotation
in the book of Matthew, along with a number of provisions
found in the Pentateuch (or Torah, if you prefer).

The Christian who quotes the Exodus passage as a justification
for capital punishment is in fact committing heresy.

Then again, it would seem that 'render unto Caesar...' might
apply to a discussion of whether or not the state (as opposed to
the individual) is empowered to mete out the ultimate penalty,
and there are arguments around how that admonition might apply
on either side of the (ahem) coin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Killing Saddam
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 12:15 PM

I am opposed to the death penalty - period. To cherry-pick who should or shouldn't be subject to judicial murder is somewhat hypocritical in my opinion.
I have no easy answers to what should be done with the tyrants who are responsible for suffering and death either in their own or other countries - it is to be hoped that some of them may even be voted out of office!


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Mudcat time: 13 August 2:17 PM EDT

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