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Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy

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GUEST 29 Sep 06 - 02:45 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 29 Sep 06 - 02:52 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 29 Sep 06 - 02:53 PM
oggie 29 Sep 06 - 04:10 PM
Folkiedave 29 Sep 06 - 09:33 PM
GUEST 30 Sep 06 - 03:43 AM
GUEST 30 Sep 06 - 03:44 AM
GUEST 30 Sep 06 - 04:49 AM
Folkiedave 30 Sep 06 - 09:52 AM
dick greenhaus 30 Sep 06 - 11:40 AM
GUEST,Spider Monkey 30 Sep 06 - 01:14 PM
The Sandman 30 Sep 06 - 02:23 PM
nutty 30 Sep 06 - 02:24 PM
Folkiedave 30 Sep 06 - 07:43 PM
Folkiedave 30 Sep 06 - 07:57 PM
dick greenhaus 30 Sep 06 - 08:28 PM
Folkiedave 01 Oct 06 - 03:11 AM
johnadams 01 Oct 06 - 06:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 02:45 PM

The two potential buyers for the VWML were Lomax and Goldstein; both now dead but presumably acting for somebody.
No - I don't think it should go to the States.
Thanks
Jim Carroll
PS Ron Olesko
Completely off topic; do you know if Paul Robeson's Moscow concert ever released commercially?


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 02:52 PM

Yes, I it was issued a few years ago on Telstar. I'm not sure if it was the complete concert.


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 02:53 PM

Just a PS - I'm not lobbying to have the archives come to the "states", but I do think that efforts need to be made to have it housed somewhere. As I said earlier, in the age that we live in it really doesn't matter where the physical material is housed - so long as it is accessible to the people who would benefit from it.


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: oggie
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 04:10 PM

For the archive to survive two things are required, a) a willing seller and b) a willing buyer. For it to survive in the public domain the buyer needs to big enough and have the infrastucture to sort it, preserve itand make it available.

I do not know about the willing seller.

As far as buyers go there are a number of thoughts. If the BBC/EFDSS think the material is theirs then that can stop any purchase until legal issues are resolved. Whether the EFDSS hasthe resources either to litigate and, if successful, to curate the collection is debatable.

I cannot think of a UK based academic purchaser who would take on the collection. Possibly lottery funding would help but a) this takes time and b) it may be too english to attract funding (check out the inclusion and diversity sections of a grant application).

It may well be that the best option is for an overseas institution to but it. Let's face it Mudcat talks across continents and unless one wants to handle the physical artifacts this is as good a way as any so long as the archive is available at a sensible cost.

In the first instance the biggest problems seem to be a) establishing ownership b) establishing a willing seller c) stopping the piecemeal disposal of the archive and then finding a suitable buyer.

All the best

oggie


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: Folkiedave
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 09:33 PM

Oggie,

You are very perceptive and I commend you on what you have written.

It is as you suggest a very complex issue.

Dave Eyre


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:43 AM

Oggie, Thanks for your summing up. I totally agree, with one exception.
The biggest problem is in activating the organisation whose behaviour led to the situation we are now in - not mentioning any names but it begins with E and ends with S.
Unless and until they act the collection will be lost to us.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:44 AM

PS
Thanks for the Paul Robeson information Ron
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:49 AM

Popping my head above the parapet on this one.

I've followed the thread; vituperative posts included and refrained from comment, as I had minimal knowledge of Kennedy or his "dubious practices". An earlier post taking someone to task ( a bit harshly, I thought)for talking about something they had no knowledge of ensured I stayed quiet till now.

Given the current uncertainty over the future of this collection, surely establishing copyright and ownership is important in order that it is dealt with (sold/retained/properly archived) in a manner acceptable to the legal owner(s).

If the archive becomes a de facto "Kennedy collection" then control over it's destiny will rest with the family and not the BBC/EFDSS: therefore its status must be established prior to permission for a sale/bequest being given by the Kennedy estate.

Furthermore, if the archive was acquired dubiously (in terms of copyright and practices- as has been debated ad infinitum) by Kennedy; then at the same time as re-establishing ownership reparation must be made to the people who were recorded.

It should be a matter of principle, not of the amount concerned.

Oh and I take issue with the comments from oggie in that the collection is "too English" to attract funding. It's anything but...

Whilst it had been mostly commissioned by the EFDSS (and the British Broadcasting Corporation) it is a British and Irish archive and I would have thought that, as I suggested in the other current "Kennedy/EFDSS" thread, members of the relevant bodies of other constituent parts of the UK and Eire, should be lobbying for retention in these isles and for access to it, regardless of the cost.

andymac


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 09:52 AM

Unless and until they act the collection will be lost to us

I am not sure that follows Jim.


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 11:40 AM

Well, 300-odd CDs of this collection are available for sale to the public. And, since Mr. Kennedy didn't choose to package them in a manner suitable for sale (discs identified with hand-written numbers and almost indecipherable notes), CAMSCO Music (with Peter Kennedy's permission and blessings) has been repackaging them with proper labeling , notes and jewel cases. To date, CAMCO has released 37 of the Folktrax titles, and is currently working on a dozen more.THey sell for $18 US (a bit under 10 quid.)


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: GUEST,Spider Monkey
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 01:14 PM

Folkiedave has ignored my allegation about his attempts to broker the Kennedy sound collection to potential purchasers.

Either that means that I am correct and Folkiedave is hoping nobody realizes as he quickly tries to shuffle the evidence under the carpet
or I am wrong but I doubt it.

Folkiedave it's time to come clean about your dealings in terms of Kennedy's collections!

Though I'm a longstanding Mudtracker I'm being anonymous about this because I'm distantly related by marriage to the Kennedys and don't want to cause a family row if it can be avoided.


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 02:23 PM

I was curious about this as well,i distinctly smelt something like a vested interest.


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: nutty
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 02:24 PM

And when you sell them Dick .... who does the money go to?

Do you pay royalties to the songwriters/preformers?


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:43 PM

There is absolutely no question or any truth in any rumour or statement that I am trying to broker the Kennedy Sound Collection. I am not in a position to do so and any thought that I might be is sheer round spherical objects.

Nor is there any truth in me having bought Peter Kennedy´s books.

Apart from that, not a bad try!! So you were wrong.

As it happens I am currently in Spain. Here´s my telephone number, feel free to ring me. You will need to put 0044 in front of this number. 9588881086

958 is the code for Granada province. My house is in Almuñecar.

Strange thing to do leaving England for Spain (September 20th, returning November 2nd) in the middle of such negotiations!!

However since it is hardly a secret, except it seems to everyone on this thread, it appears that Halsway Manor Society were gifted something by Peter by Deed of Trust(precisely what I am not sure) it may have been everything to do with folk music that Peter owned, such as sound tapes, field notes, films, photographs, books etc. I really do not know and unlike others I am not prepared to make ill-founded or anonymous allegations based on speculation. But if it turns you on, feel free to do so. I shan´t sue.

As for ignoring your questions sometimes I am in front of the computer and sometimes not.

I have answered every single question asked of me on this thread honestly and truthfully.

The only question that has not been answered as far as I am concerned is why Mustrad published anonymous allegations from a file saved up over a number of years and then asked for concrete evidence to support them.

Now I am happy to sign my name to the things I write. So care to withdraw what you wrote about me - whoever you are?

Dave Eyre


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:57 PM

Incidentally I receieved an email from someone calling themselves Sean Gallagher with a Yahoo email address.

Dear Dave,

I've read your messages in the Kennedy thread on Mudcat and it's clear to me that you're up to something.

Are you actually seeking a broker for Kennedy's sound recordings in the US?


This is what I replied.

1. Sean,

No, I prefer them to remain in the UK. All I can promise you is that I will reveal all when it is appropriate.

But than you for opening up al ine of communication. Tell me more.

Best regards,

Dave Eyre

2.

You will forgive me for writing again I am currently in Spain where I have a house ,and I may have given a wrong impression last night. This was entirely due to the fact it is Fiesta time in my "barrio" and I had drink taken!!

I have no control over what we might call the "Kennedy Archive" and I ferevently wish it to remain in the British Isles.

I would like to hear who you are etc. so again thanks for writing. Would you be kind enough to reveal your own interest in the matter?

Now would the real Sean Gallagher like to step forward and confirm that is exactly as I replied?

Dave Eyre


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:28 PM

Nutty-
I have no knowledge of who gets or doesn't get royalties on any of the CDs I sell; I can only assume that the listed copyright holder owns the copyright. As I've said before, if any artist who's entitled to a royalty isn't getting one, please have him/her/them contact me and I'll pay it personally. Don't expect anyone to respond, though--royalties are payable only when recordings are sold, and represent 15% of the list selling price. At the rate that Folktrax CDs sell, for example, an artist would probably be better off accepting a pint instead.


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 03:11 AM

I am afraid that this thread is getting bogged down with material about the collection (s) when it ought IMHO to be concerned with Peter Kennedy and the Mustrad allegations. That is after all the first post on the thread.

I have therefore started a new thread called Kennedy Collection here.

If you do continue posting to this thread to discuss Peter Kennedy here is a small challenge. Think about saying whether you would like anonymous allegations about you collected over a period of time, posted on the internet, and with a request for evidence to back those anonymous allegations up. And think how your family would feel if these came out shortly after your death.

And if you wouldn´t like it about you, then there is no reason to support it about anyone else.


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Subject: RE: Reflections/Criticism of Peter Kennedy
From: johnadams
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 06:19 AM

Jim Carroll wrote:

The two potential buyers for the VWML were Lomax and Goldstein; both now dead but presumably acting for somebody.
No - I don't think it should go to the States.
Thanks


As a Trustee of the VWML I can inform you that the library is not presently up for sale, to the best of my knowledge has never been up for sale, and while I have been a trustee there has been no talk of it going up for sale.

I trust that clarifies the situation.

John Adams
EFDSS Vice Chair Marketing and Promotion.


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