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BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.

Manitas_at_home 02 Dec 06 - 11:02 AM
John MacKenzie 02 Dec 06 - 08:26 AM
GUEST 02 Dec 06 - 08:09 AM
The Shambles 01 Dec 06 - 08:54 PM
GUEST,Jon 01 Dec 06 - 11:05 AM
The Shambles 01 Dec 06 - 10:32 AM
autolycus 30 Nov 06 - 05:13 PM
The Shambles 30 Nov 06 - 02:13 AM
John MacKenzie 29 Nov 06 - 02:43 PM
GUEST 29 Nov 06 - 02:33 PM
GUEST 29 Nov 06 - 10:08 AM
GUEST 29 Nov 06 - 08:27 AM
GUEST 29 Nov 06 - 07:49 AM
Wolfgang 29 Nov 06 - 07:40 AM
GUEST 28 Nov 06 - 03:17 PM
GUEST 28 Nov 06 - 02:47 PM
The Shambles 28 Nov 06 - 01:44 PM
GUEST 28 Nov 06 - 06:38 AM
John MacKenzie 28 Nov 06 - 06:28 AM
The Shambles 28 Nov 06 - 05:56 AM
GUEST 28 Nov 06 - 03:31 AM
autolycus 28 Nov 06 - 03:10 AM
The Shambles 27 Nov 06 - 09:07 PM
The Shambles 26 Nov 06 - 07:19 AM
GUEST 26 Nov 06 - 06:29 AM
autolycus 26 Nov 06 - 04:51 AM
Joe Offer 25 Nov 06 - 11:46 PM
Jeri 25 Nov 06 - 10:29 PM
Jeri 25 Nov 06 - 10:29 PM
Joe Offer 25 Nov 06 - 09:48 PM
The Shambles 25 Nov 06 - 09:02 PM
The Shambles 25 Nov 06 - 10:21 AM
GUEST 25 Nov 06 - 09:51 AM
GUEST 25 Nov 06 - 09:43 AM
The Shambles 25 Nov 06 - 07:56 AM
John MacKenzie 25 Nov 06 - 07:25 AM
autolycus 25 Nov 06 - 07:05 AM
GUEST 25 Nov 06 - 06:35 AM
The Shambles 24 Nov 06 - 08:51 AM
The Shambles 23 Nov 06 - 01:55 AM
The Shambles 22 Nov 06 - 06:44 AM
The Shambles 21 Nov 06 - 09:23 AM
Blowzabella 21 Nov 06 - 08:12 AM
The Shambles 21 Nov 06 - 07:19 AM
Blowzabella 20 Nov 06 - 06:15 PM
The Shambles 20 Nov 06 - 04:10 PM
autolycus 20 Nov 06 - 02:25 PM
The Shambles 20 Nov 06 - 12:36 PM
GUEST 19 Nov 06 - 10:50 PM
autolycus 19 Nov 06 - 03:48 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 11:02 AM

"Imposed actions". What on earth does that mean anyway? Are you implying that Joe is acting under duress? That someone has his arm behind his back? In which case you should stop castigating him and mount a rescue mission forthwith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 08:26 AM

Well GUEST !!!!!!! Methinks for a person who professes to post under his own name always, the style of the last post is uniquely that of Roger Gall.
Do corrrect me if I'm mistaken
Giok ¦¬]


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 08:09 AM

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby and John McCusker have split
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 03:55 PM

I'll close it now and leave it up for a day or so. After that, I'll delete it. Here's why: it's just not fair for people without names (who post anonymously) to say things about the personal lives of people who DO have names.
But I'll leave it up for a day or so, allowing people to read it if they so desire. This thread is hurtful, and I see no reason to preserve it.
-Joe-


That old double standard again..........Without noticing any irony - the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team judges that - it is just not fair for people without names (who post anonymously) to say things about the personal lives of people who DO have names.

But it does seems to be judged fair (by our 'moderators') - for them to not only post anonymously to say abusive things and publicly speculate about every aspect of individual posters, who DO have names - but to be able to threaten and anonymously impose their judgement on the posting of individual posters who DO have names.

But what does this proposed action really achieve - except make a few posters feel they are more important than others?

Closing such threads and then deleting ALL the posts to them - after the event - does not alter the fact that our forum has contributed such a thread (and worse) or have any effect on preventing such things in the future. By encouraging those few posters who feel they have some right to complain about what other's post, these actions just ensure that such things will continue.

All of these actions are just a sham and a pretence that our forum is something that it plainly is not.

If our 'moderators' do not like the result of posters following the example they set - then a different and more positive example must be set by them - rather than just repeating attempts like these - to re-write the history of 'fairyland'.

Do they really do care about not being hurtful or about things not only being fair but being seen to be fair - or do they just care about being seen to be more important?

There is no need for our 'moderators' to take any action to 'preserve' such threads and no one is asking for this.

All they have to do is nothing. Not to post to judge - but simply to mind their own business and encourage other posters to follow this example.

This will allow posters the freedom to judge whether they wish to post to such threads or not. All these imposed actions do is encourage posters that posting only to judge the worth of threads or named posters - is acceptable for them also.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 08:54 PM

Kate Rusby and John Mcusker have split has now been closed.

This was a thread post with 300 or so posts - many of them just complaining about how such a worthless post receives so many posts and how they wanted it to die.

One poster contributed 18 times to complain and keep it alive with posts about The Archers.

Rather than just encouraging posters to ignore it which will allow it to fall off the bottom - the thread has now been closed by our 'moderators' to serve no good purpose but in order to keep up the pretence that we do not post idle gossip and judgements like that - when of course that is exactly what our forum is now encouraged to do by the example now set by our 'moderators'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 11:05 AM

Has anyone else had the experience of being deleted?

I've had posts deleted and seen posts of others deleted. There have been occasions where I have not understood an action and others where I have believed an action plain wrong. Over a posting history of around seven years though, such occasions have been rare. I also believe that when considering such actions, one does have to keep in mind that subjective processes are involved and we all differ to some degree or other in our judgements.

I try to take an overall view and it is my opinion that editing decisions are made fairly, are in line with Max's policies (which, although still on the very tolerant side when comparing different forums I think have tightened very slightly over the years, and yes, unlike shambles, I do believe that it is Max that sets Mudcat policy and that he has control over his volunteers and that ultimately they follow his guidelines) for Mudcat and that there are no conspiracies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 10:32 AM

Well, since you, shambles, know when you've been cut, then presumably others do, too.

Well, I don't always know (but I do try and find out). But that is exactly why I am asking for all editing actions to be recorded by editing comments (and for all editing comments to be limited to where some form of editing action has taken place). So if a poster did not see their post and did not see an editing comment in its place - they would know there was another explanation - other than censorship.

So who else knows they've been edited out?

Nor does anyone else always know. The posters I listed who posted to the two threads which were silently deleted know and Wolfgang does - as he posted to the one that has vanished without trace - but he is not telling.

Ivor perhaps you could explain where you are going with this approach?

Are you suggesting that all the unfairness and double standards undertaken by our 'moderators', which I have demonstrated in this thread would be acceptable if it were limited to just one individual (even when it is clear that it is not so limited)?

As many of those who post in support of our 'moderators' (assuming they are not themselves 'moderators') to say 'we' like it - are really just saying that they like this unfairness not because they agree with unfairness but because they are not subjected to it. Is that the point you are making too?

Or do agree that ALL posters should be seen to be treated equally by our 'moderators'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: autolycus
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 05:13 PM

Wolfgang - thanks for your reply. That's that sorted.

   I asked if others have been deleted. Shambles said how would posters know. Well, since you, shambles, know when you've been cut, then presumably others do, too. So who else knows they've been edited out?






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 02:13 AM

Spam posts


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 02:43 PM

Name that pain in the arse Guest!
G.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 02:33 PM

Name that clone.

Melvin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 10:08 AM

Name that clone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 08:27 AM

Wolfgang,

Shambles words in this thread neve make sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 07:49 AM

perfectly on topic.

You only have one topic shambles. Everything has to come to the same point and you were changing that thread into why the methods the mods here use for dealing with spam is wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 07:40 AM

Ivor,

I only read this thread every couple of days.

My remark was directed only to Shambles and not to you. I had to post your words as well for Shambles' words alone did not make sense. But I am guilty of overlooking the interpretation that includes you.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 03:17 PM

Name that clone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 02:47 PM

Hey Shambles,

After over 1,700 posts, most of which are you repeating yourself over and over again, don't you get the idea that all of your bellyaching is accomplishing absolutely NOTHING. Most people here are quite satisfied with the Mudcat. No one is going to change things to please just you when everyone else likes what is being done. If you find this site so miserable then go and post somewhere else. See if the grass is greener. My guess is that you have already tried that and, if you act the way that you do here, you have already been banished to Mudcatland where Max is more patient then others.

Perhaps it's time for you to start your own website and see if it is as easy as you think to run it in a way that it will please everyone.

But it really doesn't matter how you feel or what you plan to do.

Because:

"Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell."

According to Max "Trust me, this matter will be dealt with in time. Trust me, we working as hard as we can to make this happen as soon as we can." That's about you leaving.

So long, farewell, bye bye, cheerio!


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 01:44 PM

Spam threads

The following (and needless threat) from the above thread - where my two posts were of course perfectly on topic.

And I will leave our forum to judge who is 'raving, ranting and raving' - me or our anonymous 'moderator'……………………………..

Subject: RE: BS: Spam threads
From: GUEST,Fat Clone - PM
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 12:38 PM

Shambles---Once again you show your naivete regarding the www and the workings of a website.

Also, this thread discusses spam and what some have done regarding spam. It is NOT a rendition of your personal problems with the way this site is run by Max Spiegel and his assorted minions including Joe Offer.

If you have a complaint, please PM Max. If you wish to rave and ramble about this site and your personal opinions, take it to the "Closed and Deleted" thread. It will not be appropriate here and will be deleted from this thread. Most sites do not allow any conversation of that kind but you do have the thread available here for your rantings. Be thankful.

If you continue in this vein on this thread it will be deleted. You know in advance of this so it is certainly not a silent deletion, although that is the kind done by at least 9 out of 10 other forums.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 06:38 AM

LOL.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 06:28 AM

"Perhaps the more sensible of posters experiencing 'silent deletion' - would as a result have long ago gone elsewhere?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 05:56 AM

Has anyone else had the experience of being deleted?

Would anyone else know if and when they had? For the first issue really is 'silent deletion' - and where all posts are deleted along with the thread. Perhaps the more sensible of posters experiencing 'silent deletion' - would as a result have long ago gone elsewhere?

It is a bit like asking if anyone has had the experience of dying from drowning. From the lack of response - would you conclude that no one has?

Before that question can have any meaningful answers - the first step is to enable posters to be aware of the true nature and current level of all kinds of imposed editing actions.

My view is that very little of it needs to be imposed as most posters would agree to any sensible alterations to their posts - if they were asked via PMs first.

As it is all undertaken in our name - my first concern is to try and ensure that it is all openly recorded in editing comments and that all editing comments are limited to where some form of imposed editing action has taken place.

That would appear to be a sensible first step that gives some protection to posters that any required critria is being and protects our 'moderators' from any accusation that they have abused the use of their edit-button.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 03:31 AM

Sorry, it is not all shambles does. He selectively quotes, twists the words of others, ignores reality or any question that puts him on the spot, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: autolycus
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 03:10 AM

Guest's post are less than 1005 accurate, and using "etc" is way too vague. As for the first,it is simply false to say that all Shambles does is criticise. (But then, arousing prejudice is one of the standard methods for obscuring argument.)

   Shambles - I do see what you're saying, tho' I didn't say you worked away at the weaknesses of other posters.

   And I apologise for asking you for the subject of deleted posts after you'd already given me a couple of examples.

   Has anyone else had the experience of being deleted?






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 09:07 PM

Shambles actually does full-frontally what we all do, which is to work away at any perceived weaknesses in others.

This is more what is done in response to me simply trying to demonstrate the true picture of what is happening in practice on our forum. When our our 'moderators' are seen to assure you and compromise our forum in the pretence that it something else.

I can see little point in any poster joining in the pretence that our emperors (no matter how well-intentioned thay may be) are clothed in the finest silks - when their naked flesh is clearly exposed for all to see.

But I really care very little about working away on or judging any individual poster's personal weaknesses. All this judgement of each other's worth, has become just a distraction to real discussion. And it matters little anyway - as currently, all are invited to contribute to our forum. For anything that is not of interest can be easily ignored.

What does matter - is what ALL posters are trying to say and encouraging as many as possible to feel safe to post their views.

However, it is not possible to simply ignore so-called 'moderators' when they 'silently delete' posts and entire threads. This (and the petty reasons provided to justify most of it) can only serve to inhibit discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 07:19 AM

In his case,it is any weaknesses in the Mudcat editorial team's activities or thinking. Shambles does it philosophically. A trouble with reasoning is that it is idealistic, and the world isn't ideal, so reasoning's job is endless.

Ivor - that is at least partly partly true but it is not me or what I post that is the problem. But it has been pointed out in this thread that if you are not part of the solution - you are part of the problem. But whatever posters may think of me - do you just sit quiet and allow your ideals and principles to be compromised by the activities and thinking of those operating hypocritical double standards and doing it in your name? Or do you speak up - while you still have the chance?

For it is not just a philosophical/idealistic concern in a world that isn't ideal. It is practical matter of reaping what is sowed on our forum. And from the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team's - for the record statement - what he has sowed and is now grown - it is not the crop he requires it to be. But our 'moderators' do not seem to see any connection between the example they publicly set and this example being followed. And as they show little sign of ever changing the example they set - it is only going to get worse and make them even less content with our forum.

It is in order to prevent our forum from seeing and from discussing these many weaknesses that I have special posting restrictions imposed on my posting. And others (whose post are far more offensive) and you, do not.

But as I have demonstrated - that does not mean that your posts are safe from 'silent deletion'.

But the point is that there are plainly many weaknesses in the Mudcat editorial team's activities and thinking. Not the least of them being the question of does a discussion forum, open for the public's even require any form editing team? Censors possibly - but what is to be edited when all the copy is freely invited by the site's owner?

But surely it is healthier to have posters demonstrating and discussing these weaknesses (in order that our forum does not continue to suffer from them) - than it is to have (often anonymous) members of that team judging the worth and publicly demonstrating the weaknesses of individual named posters?

Is it healthy for them to be seen to abuse their privileged postion by setting the example of double standards? By indulging (and permitting) posting activities - that they would judge and impose editing action on - should other poster follow this example?

Is it only the thinking and activities of named posters that is now open to public judgement (and subject to name-calling) by our 'moderators'? Are they then to be considered to be above judgement by the public whose interests they are supposed to be protecting?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 06:29 AM

All shambles posts are attacks, accusations, etc. Shambles is the only poster who has been doing this for 6 years on a daily basis.

Yes, shambles does get jibes etc. but he reaps less than he sows.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: autolycus
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 04:51 AM

Yes, Shambles, you are the one to ask about the subject of deleted threads because it is you who complain about the silent deleting of your threads/postings.

   Since it doesn't happen to me,I'm interested in what one can post about that is liable to deletion. You have the answer.

GUEST talks of anything but the ATTACKS on Shambles and the JIBES at him. Shambles is the only poster I know of,apart from some guests, who often gets attacks and abuse, even in threads where he has posted nothing. That amounts to scapegoating in my book. Which is extraordinary given that , unlike MG who rarely did too much apart from abuse (slight overstatement), Shambles is essentially impersonal. Shambles actually does full-frontally what we all do, which is to work away at any perceived weaknesses in others. In his case,it is any weaknesses in the Mudcat editorial team's activities or thinking. Shambles does it philosophically. A trouble with reasoning is that it is idealistic, and the world isn't ideal, so reasoning's job is endless.


'Giok' , I know what you mean, tho' a glance down the list of postings shows quite a few who don't leave Shambles to it. As a philosophy graduate (which is how I get to be such a 'fool'), I'm often ready for reasoning. However, as a student of psychology, I think it might be more productive to approach this thread from that point of view. Tho' delicately,hopefully. People here certainly find the idea that Shambles is a gift as in the joke I gave, or that scapegoating might be going on, or that people are blaming and avoiding their resposibility and so on, not straightforward to respond to.






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 11:46 PM

Danm!


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 10:29 PM

Which means this ought to be 1700.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 10:29 PM

I don't see anything wrong with the counter...


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:48 PM

Now, the counter says 1697, which means this message should be 1698, but the counter has been screwed up, which makes it well-nigh impossible to tell if 1700 is really coming, and is 1700 a singificant number, anyhow?
I think I'll shoot for 1750, a much nicer number, indeed.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:02 PM

Mobbing is a form of sociological scapegoating which occurs in the workplace. From At The Mercy Of The Mob A summary of research on workplace mobbing by Kenneth Westhues, Prof. of Sociology University of Waterloo, published in OHS Canada, Canada's Occupational Health & Safety Magazine, Vol. 18, No. 8, December 2002, pp. 30-36.

"Scapegoating is an effective if temporary means of achieving group solidarity, when it cannot be achieved in a more constructive way. It is a turning inward, a diversion of energy away from serving nebulous external purposes toward the deliciously clear, specific goal of ruining a disliked co-worker's life. ...

Mobbing can be understood as the stressor to beat all stressors. It is an impassioned, collective campaign by co-workers to exclude, punish, and humiliate a targeted worker. Initiated most often by a person in a position of power or influence, mobbing is a desperate urge to crush and eliminate the target. The urge travels through the workplace like a virus, infecting one person after another.

The target comes to be viewed as absolutely abhorrent, with no redeeming qualities, outside the circle of acceptance and respectability, deserving only of contempt. As the campaign proceeds, a steadily larger range of hostile ploys and communications comes to be seen as legitimate."


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 10:21 AM

It is now as clear as NAFFI tea..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:51 AM

To clarify:

To shambles, Joe Offer (and to a lesser degree some mods) are the cause of all ills here and shambles, not others, start the rounds of accusations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:43 AM

It's fearfully interesting that groups
universally seem to need a scapegoat.


It is but shambles has never been a scape goat. People like Martin Gibson and anonymous guests have often been credited for a greater contribution towards general unpleasantness here that I for one believe they have deserved.

In the shamble's threads, shambles is the one using a scape goat. Joe Offer (and to a lesser degree some mods) are the cause of all ills here and he, not others, start the rounds of accusations.

Others may reply, argue against, make fun of, etc. shables posts but it is rare to see him blamed for any Mudcat woes, except his own personal ones.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:56 AM

What was the subject of threads that have been
deleted?


http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=96061&messages=1

Was one. Status Quo was the subject of the other(if you look back you will see the details in this thread. The thread that has vanished without trace (the same one that Wolfgang does not wish to talk about) - was about Guest posting (and it was not started by me).

But Ivor - am I the one to ask about the amount or subjects of threads that are 'silently deleted'? I am only aware of the few that I accidently discover and can only discuss those. Those who can answer and already have given you what you can now see was a worthless assurance - are the ones who could inform you and our forum - but appear reluctant to do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:25 AM

Ivor we're keeping our counsel, as it is a waste of breath and/or cyberspace to try reasoning with Shambles. I suggest you follow suit, and leave him to bumble along in his own little world.
G.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: autolycus
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 07:05 AM

I do keep a memory of what I post, and nothing has
been deleted.So this discussion is puzzling for me.

   What was the subject of threads that have been
deleted?

   Incidentally, I got mild abuse from GUEST, and
that's still there, so not all abuse gets deleted. And
I already knew I was a fool,tho' GUEST wouldn't have
known that.

   I'm interested in Wolfgang's silence, and the silence
of the many who have abused Shambles. Hopefully that
denotes reconsideration, and that we'll find out the
outcome. It's fearfully interesting that groups
universally seem to need a scapegoat.

   I've found that if I don't abuse then I'm untroubled
by editors.


   "The three great strategies for obscuring an issue
are to introduce irrelevancies, to arouse prejudice and
to excite ridicule." Bergan Evans






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 06:35 AM

Has Snitchers Corner (AKA - The Mudcat Help And Trouble Forum) been purged?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 08:51 AM

Let's have a look at the so-called criteria, what is to be 'allowed' by our 'moderators' and exactly the double standards that posters are being asked to support (and a few willingly, foolishly and noisily do appear to blindly accept). Do you accept this?

Here are three - for a start.

1 All spam is bad. And must be deleted (even to the extent of closing perfectly accepatble music threads bacause of spam).

Except when spam is not bad and intentionally posted (to this thread) by a 'moderator' - then it is then judged bad for any 'kind-hearted but misguided Clone' to delete it.
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2 All anonymous posting is bad. And those unamed guests, will be judged and accused by some of our (anonymouous) 'moderators' and accused by them, of not being bold enough to identify themselves by name'.

Except when anonymous posting is not bad and then - not only can certain favoured ones post anonymously and be on the side of the angels - they can also anonymously and 'silently delete' the posts of other posters - who are bold enough to identify themselves by name.
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3 All posting of personal abuse and name-calling is bad. And will be 'eliminated'.

Except when it is our 'moderators' who are setting the example of indulging in this and certain favoured posters as long as they are only posting to personally abuse certain individual posters.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick - PM
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 04:14 PM

I agree that if one uses personal attacks on Shambles, they will be eliminated. If they are responding to him, silly though I believe that to be, that will be allowed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 01:55 AM

Another gem from Snitchers Corner.

Please allow all spam


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 06:44 AM

Still,Shambles,I'm not aware of being censored myself. What am i doing right?

Ivor -
I think have answered that.........

But as I (and others) have been censored despite the assurance you were given about meeting the required criteria - perhaps you could explain what we are doing wrong?

Perhaps you could also try and have better luck in establishing what became of the recent thread that Wolfgang and I both posted to and which vanished without trace? For you may well have posted to it yourself.

I need more specific information to figure out what you're talking about. If you need information from the thread, contact me by personal message.
-Joe Offer-


It would appear (from the above editing comment inserted in this thread where no form of editing action had taken place) that there are too many such instances where entire threads are 'silently deleted' - for the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team to narrow it down to the one I am referring to.

Or to inform our forum if that thread did meet or did not meet the required criteria for 'silent deletion'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 09:23 AM

As a matter of fact, I did not understand exactly what was being said. Which was why I posted my question. And posting it wasn't any great trouble, not really.

Well perhaps providing the following examples - from a favoured poster who has no special restrictions imposed on his posting by our 'moderators' - may help you understand and encourage you to comment on the fairness and desirabilty of this double standard being seen on our forum?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49 - PM
Date: 25 Aug 06 - 12:53 PM

Sorry Giok, you can't do that. It is quite simply too much. What I mean is that with his head so far up his ass he has to take his hat off to shit, there is no room for anything else!

Spaw
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49 - PM
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:33 AM

Dig it Shambolina....We all know that YOU can prolong the life of a thread all by yourself.......and you do. Several times this thread has gone dormant for almost 24 hours, especially lately, and you refresh it with bullshit.

Max asked you to leave. Get the fuck out.

Spaw
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49 - PM
Date: 25 Sep 06 - 11:20 PM

Aw Mick, that ain't right. Lemmee help you out here.

Shambolina you say that you need an explanation "provided to indicate where, why and when such action has been judged necessary?"

Okay Rog.....Here's one you can always refer to should someone zap a post.

One of your flakey posts on some thread or another was zapped the other day because it was another of your sillyass and repetitious rants built around misquotes and out of context, copy and paste, bullshit. If it had any redeeming value it was moved to this thread, otherwise it is gone into the ether and only it's smell remains.

That ought to cover all of your problems......except for the fact that you haven't left after Max asked you to go.

Have a nice day Twiddles.

Spaw
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49 - PM
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 11:28 AM

LMAO.......Well there ya' go! You really are a mental case Shambolina!

Here's one guy who really tries to work it through and see your points and stand up for you with some solid reasoning............So you aggressively go out of your way to piss HIM off?!?!?!?!

I have a bad case of the giggles and it's hard to type..........The irony and your inability to perceive anything.............geeziz LOLOL ................you're really mental........LOLOL

Spaw
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49 - PM
Date: 29 Oct 06 - 07:45 AM

There ya' go Ebbie. You have received right from the horse's ass a Shambolina Classic. Syntax and logic both are garbled and beyond recognition. The last "policy" Max had towards postings by the Piss&MoanMeister was a request he leave.

Got a mirror Roger? I mean do you have one your wife will allow you to use without fear of breakage? If so, please look into it and say, "Geeziz, I am really an asshole." Repeat this one hundred times and then perhaps you will be able to read what Max has actually said and see that you are not his defender but his antagonist and your ass is about to get the boot as outlined for you previously.

Do yourself a huge favor Roger and go back to your poems and songs and drop the vendetta. Just a suggestion mind you, but it's a good one.

Spaw
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49 - PM
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 07:51 AM

Shamby Pamby......Please note that NONE of your current postings have been "invited" by Max. His own last postings regarding yourself have been invitations to LEAVE.......not post. You cannot deny his words and there is NO SPIN you can put on them that has any other meaning except "You too, should bid farewell." Down the road, the choice will be out of your hands. Why continue being such a stupid shit now. Quit slamming Max (and that is indeed who you are slamming) and "perhaps"............

Spaw
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49 - PM
Date: 08 Nov 06 - 09:46 PM

"It is perhaps our call to bring attention to when such instances of abuse occur - without being subject to special posting restrictions for trying to make these attempts?"

Then send Max a PM Dumbass. Scared? Sure you are Shamby. Max might even respond and tell you to go fuck yourself! You're really diving deep into the crazy hole anymore. Is this just for our benefit or are you doing this shit with friends around town and acting this wacky in your own home? If so, you can't be too far from some serious talks with some nice people who will give you a padded room.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Blowzabella
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 08:12 AM

As a matter of fact, I did not understand exactly what was being said. Which was why I posted my question. And posting it wasn't any great trouble, not really.

However, when the written word is our only means of communication - unenhanced by body language, vocal tone, or facial gesture, it becomes very important to write clearly. Your suggestion that, in posting, I was somehow 'taking issue with the way it may be said' somehow tries to paint me as an aggressor, when it was your own badly structured sentence which had caused the confusion, which I sought to disperse. You have now clarified what you were trying to say. It was not clear before.

And thank you for the invitation, but I am not inclined to enter into a lengthy discussion of anything, just at the moment. I am on my lunch break and need to go shopping for groceries.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Nov 06 - 07:19 AM

Cos that's what it sounds like???

I am quite sure you understand exactly what is being said here.

Perhaps you would care to discuss the desirability and unfairness of this on our forum - rather than take all the trouble to post ONLY to take issue with the way it may be said? As you are not being restricted to ONLY this.

Some favoured posters being seen to be permitted by our 'moderators' to contribute posts containing ONLY abusive personal attacks and name-calling - is not the same as them being seen to be restricted to this.

Would you consider it preferably for all posters on our forum to be seen openly to be receiving equal treatment from our 'moderators'?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Blowzabella
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 06:15 PM

...it is a clear fact that certain favoured posters are permitted to post ONLY abusive personal attacks...

Are you honestly saying that certain members of this forum are so restricted in what they are allowed to post, that they may only post things which are personal attacks on other posters?? Cos that's what it sounds like???


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 04:10 PM

Still,Shambles,I'm not aware of being censored myself. What am i doing right?

The key word is aware. 'Silent deletion' means that you are not supposed to be aware.

If you had contributed to the following thread - Winona Ryder's birthday thread(s) , or to the earlier one or to the one that Wolfgang and I posted to which has vanished without trace - your post would have been censored and 'silently deleted - along with all the other posts in the entire thread - no matter how harmless your post may have been.

So it is not even a case of you doing anything right. As even thinking you are doing that - does not make your posts safe from 'silent deletion'.

So even if you do not try to say anything our 'moderators' do not want you to - you are not safe from 'silent deletion' - despite any assurances to the contrary - given to our forum by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team - like the following:

No, nothing you've posted has been deleted. It takes quite a bit to warrant deletion - direct attacks on people, racism, stalking, or frequent multiple posts of the same messages.
-Joe Offer-


And despite this assurance - it is a clear fact that certain favoured posters are permitted to post ONLY abusive personal attacks - and still be seen to be perfectly safe from any form of editing action.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: autolycus
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 02:25 PM

Still,Shambles,I'm not aware of being censored myself. What am i doing right?






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Nov 06 - 12:36 PM

My point is summed up in the thought,"If you keep on doing whAT YOU'VE ALWAYS DONE , you keep on getting what you've always got."

The result of our 'moderators' doing what they have always done (imposing restrictions, publicly judging their worth, insulting posters calling them names, permitting others to indulge in this and being seen to generally inhibit posting except from the very brave or the very foolish) - is the following for the record statement. Whatever the rest of us think - it is clear from this - that 'they' don't like the result. But all 'they' can think of - is more of the same. I suggest that it is not only up to 'them' but up to all our forum.

And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion. So, I think something has to be done. Ebbie's suggestion about putting Secret Santa in the music section is a very simple answer to one major objection I had to members-only BS posting - duh, why didn't I think of that?

So, short of members-only posting, what can we do to bring peace to this place? I'd rather have another solution, but I haven't been able to think of one.
-Joe Offer


I am not sure if I can see myself as much of a gift to our forum so I am sure that a good few others would struggle with that concept. But the issue is bigger than any one individual poster or 'moderator'.

For I feel we have limited opportunities in our lives and can ill afford to casually pass any of them up without at least putting up a bit of a struggle.

And I really think that Max has provided us with a gift - in the shape of our forum. Perhaps that statement is something that most of us can at least agree on as a starting point?

A few have never seemed to see the reality of this gift. Seeing the open invitation for the public's contributions only as presenting problems that can only be solved - and at the very slightest of excuses - by imposing limitations and yet further limiting our forum to something they feel they can shape and control. And not to be seen to be doing this openly - but to impose it secretly, inconsistently and anonymously.

This divisive approach is less 'moderation' than it is 'strangulation'. But whatever it is - it appears to have failed to achieve what its chief proponent requires for it.

So for a start - perhaps others can now be allowed to discuss the issue and make some positive suggestions in this thread and elswhere - as to how - in the words of the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing team "to bring peace to this place"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 10:50 PM

Yes you can autolycus. I heard that you were a master debater.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: autolycus
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 03:48 PM

Wolfgang,

I still take you to be an intelligent person, so I'm gobsmacked that you don't think Shambles and I ever debate.

I've only just (few days ago), put up a series of propositions for debate on this very thread. So far, no-one has begun to debate any of them. I can't do the debating on my own.








          ivor


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