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BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.

GUEST,surf's up 15 Oct 06 - 07:02 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 07:01 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:56 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:56 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:54 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:48 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:47 PM
bobad 15 Oct 06 - 06:45 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:42 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:41 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:40 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:38 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:31 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:31 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:29 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:28 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:25 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:23 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:22 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:19 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:18 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:17 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:15 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:14 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:13 PM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 06:12 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:11 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:10 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 06:07 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 05:51 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 15 Oct 06 - 01:25 PM
bobad 15 Oct 06 - 01:11 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 12:30 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 11:25 AM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 11:21 AM
The Shambles 15 Oct 06 - 11:20 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 15 Oct 06 - 10:04 AM
JennyO 15 Oct 06 - 09:40 AM
The Shambles 15 Oct 06 - 07:06 AM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 07:06 AM
GUEST 15 Oct 06 - 07:02 AM
The Shambles 15 Oct 06 - 07:00 AM
Peace 15 Oct 06 - 12:09 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 14 Oct 06 - 10:30 PM
The Shambles 14 Oct 06 - 10:01 PM
The Shambles 14 Oct 06 - 09:57 PM
GUEST 14 Oct 06 - 07:08 PM
Bill D 14 Oct 06 - 07:02 PM
GUEST 14 Oct 06 - 06:27 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 14 Oct 06 - 02:42 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,surf's up
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 07:02 PM

Make your mind up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 07:01 PM

Are you sure? My money is on this thread beating the 85 billion thread to 85 billion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:56 PM

This is more like it. Keep 'em coming. But let's move to the 85 billion thread, OK?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:56 PM

One day the zoo-keeper noticed that the orang-utan was reading two books - the Bible and Darwin's The Origin of Species. In surprise he asked the ape, "Why are you reading both those books"?
"Well," said the orang-utang, "I just wanted to know if I was my brother's keeper or my keeper's brother."


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:54 PM

Two goldfish in a tank. One says to the other -

























Do you know how to drive this thing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:48 PM

Peace's joke raised the smile. I dodn't think Bobad is trying yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:47 PM

Try again. That was an improvement. It did raise a smile.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: bobad
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:45 PM

A male surfer had just caught a great wave and was paddling out when a beginning female surfer took off on a wave, wiped out and her board headed directly toward the male surfer. Sure enough, her board hit him, and he immediately clasped his hands together at his crotch, curled up on his board in agony. The woman rushed over and immediately began to apologize. She then explained that she was a physical therapist and offered to help ease his pain. "Ummph, ooh, nnooo, I'll be alright... I'll be fine in a few
minutes", he replied as he remained in the fetal position still clasping his hands together at his crotch. But she persisted, and he finally allowed her to help him. She gently took his hands away and laid them to the side, loosened his board shorts and put her hands inside, beginning to massage him. "Does that feel better?", she asked. "Ohhh, Yeah....It feels *really* great", he replied, "But my thumb still hurts like hell!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:42 PM

Tell me when I post a joke you like. It would make my day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:41 PM

An elderly man in North Carolina had owned a large farm for several years. He had a large pond in the back, fixed up nice; picnic tables, horseshoe courts, and some apple and peach trees. The pond was properly shaped and fixed up for swimming when it was built.

One evening the old farmer decided to go down to the pond, as he hadn't been there for a while, and look it over. He grabbed a five-gallon bucket to bring back some fruit. As he neared the pond, he heard voices shouting and laughing with glee.

As he came closer , he saw it was a bunch of young women skinny-dipping in his pond. He made the women aware of his presence and they all went to the deep end.

One of the women shouted to him, "We're not coming out until you leave!"

The old man frowned and replied, "I didn't come down here to watch you ladies swim naked or make you get out of the pond naked." Holding the bucket up he said, "I'm here to feed the alligator."


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:40 PM

I know. Please tell that to shambles. I only used it because he keeps refering to "our" forum. If I was to correct that, you would moan about shamble's detractors.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:38 PM

At great risk of stating the obvious: The forum belongs to Max. There IS no 'our'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:31 PM

OK, if you do not like us.

Please don't bore our forum with such tedious jokes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:31 PM

Where's the fuckin' joke? get yer shit together. C'mon, I got stuff to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:29 PM

BTW: Forget this 'us' bullshit. You speak for yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:28 PM

No, no. no. It's your turn.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:25 PM

Well give us something better than that tired old joke then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:23 PM

IMO, we need more humour here and less bullshit.

Two guys driving down the road. One says, "Hey, what's in the bag?"

Other guy says, "I got a bottle of wine for my wife."

First guy says, "Good trade."


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:22 PM

That was pretty good: "We have ourselves a breaker."


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:19 PM

whoahhhhhhhhh there we have ourselves a breaker - go fetch those boards chaps. Surf's up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:18 PM

I also dislike supporters of lies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:17 PM

Hey guest 6.15 put those teeth back in they are interfering with your sepllnig.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:15 PM

Ah poor old guest 6.01 doesn't like it when the object of his/her bullying has supporters

Worng guest. I dislkie anyone who supports shabmles' perpetual bullying of the mods.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:14 PM

LOL. With or without our teeth in?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:13 PM

Ooops here we go - guest 6.10 is joining in the ripple effect. Altogether now..........whoooooooooossssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:12 PM

Calling a sheep a dog will not make it bark.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:11 PM

Ah poor old guest 6.01 doesn't like it when the object of his/her bullying has supporters. Much more fun kicking someone around when there is no one there to watch eh? Carry on you are giving us all a great laugh now. Trouble is it is at your expense.

If you take out the false teeth and whistle real slow you might sound like the start of a wave.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:10 PM

Sometimes we like to correct shambles blatant lies, guest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 06:07 PM

Good point guest! It is really hard to gauge who thinks what, but you start seeing the same names over and over.   

Like Shambles and now Ron Olesko...


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 05:51 PM

Interesting that you use the day at a beach analogy. I always imagine the detractors rolling in like waves, albeit VERY SMALL waves.

It starts with a ripple, then a couple of 'I need to jump in here while it's going my way' detractors join in, then it rolls along steadily for a bit, then it reaches a crescendo as it gets very heated/irate/petulant. Then it crashes with a boom. Then it all goes silent.

Then they have another unproductive day where they are not taken too seriously and feel the need to build up into something they equate with power. And so it starts again and again and again.

Like Bobad, Shamble's VERY FEW detractors have behaved so ridiculously, they have done him a huge favour.

The funniest posts though are the regular as clockwork ' I know I should be ignoring him, but I just have to say this and then I will ignore him.' But they can't ignore him. It amazes me no end why his detractors are physically unable to not open this thread.

Shambles is all powerful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 01:25 PM

"he has become the scapegoat for a VERY FEW 'grown' men and even FEWER dubious women to kick about."

Good point guest! It is really hard to gauge who thinks what, but you start seeing the same names over and over.   

All it takes is a few grains of sand in your bathing suit to make a day at the beach miserable!


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: bobad
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 01:11 PM

FWIW, I have also had a change of heart in regards to Shambles' posts and now feel that there is some validity to what he says. The posts of a few long time members, who seem to be obsessed with attacking him, have influenced the shift in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 12:30 PM

You have become that party guest that most people try to avoid.

No Ron, he has become the scapegoat for a VERY FEW 'grown' men and even FEWER dubious women to kick about. Presumably they feel very powerless in real life. Shame.

Never be under the impression that they represent MOST.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 11:25 AM

Shables, if what you said was truthful, Big Mick for one would have banned you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 11:21 AM

His points are invalid.

If his points had anything to do with concrn of the Mudcat policy of... , he might have some validty.

While he centers everything around a belief that everything wrong centeres around the Chief of Editing and has nothing to do with policy set by the site owner, he is talking nonsense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 11:20 AM

I'm not saying that is right, far from it actually - it is just the way things are.

It certainly would appear to be the way things are or the way a few now wish them to be. But in reality the majority of posters (if they are allowed to) still tend to respond to my posts as they would any other poster. Without knowing that the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has fingerered this one individual poster as our forum's current public enemy number one - why would they not?

It would be nice to get these restrictions on my posting lifted but apart from that - my own treatment is less of an issue for me. I have always realised that trying to continue expressing my honset views was hardly going to make things easy.

The concern is the way posters are now generally treated and he attitude now shown to them by those few who have always ignored the reality of our host's open invitation for the public's contributions and have always treated our forum as if it were their own private club, to be shaped to their reqirements.

If I were Max - I would consider the attitudes, actions and wishes of these few posters to be the main problem now to enabling and encouraging new blood and to continuing free and open discussion on our forum. As these few do not really appear to see this (or every poster's happiness) as our forum's main purpose.

The difficulty is that many do have (or now feel they) have a personal relationship with Max. And many do have regular contact together outside of our forum and as a result of this, tend now to look inward in posts on our forum rather than outward.

What is referred (wrongly in my view) as the Mudcat Community is both our forum's biggest strength and its biggest weakness. This aspect is fine but in reality it tends to limit what is an open invitation from Max to the whole world - to the level of an exclusive (rather intolerant and bitchy) private club.   

Actions to reinforce this concept are counter-productive and most of the conflict is with and from those posters who feel intentionally excluded by these actions from this cosy club or have no wish to join any club that would have them as a member. But mostly because common sense tells us that an open invitation for the world's views - will NEVER produce a cosy like-minded group. Again, this is both a strength and a weakness for our forum. I see it mainly as our forum's strength and what makes it special.

I really think that the answer IS for a private online members only forum to be created to accomodate those who publicly express their wish only for this.

Our forum could then continue for those who can still see the value in Max's open invitation for everyone to join the party and for new posters who may wish to. And for every poster to largely be left to decide for themselves what to read, respond to or ignore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 10:04 AM

" Some of us may be able to freely speak their minds. "

What you say perfectly illustrates the fact that this forum is subject to the whims of the owner and the designates.   I'm with Peace, I think you have every right to voice your opinion (even though I feel that you are being too repititive) and your points and suggestions have merit.

Lets face facts. The sanctions that have been imposed on you appear to be arbitrary and by reading the threads appear to have been introduced in an attempt to keep you quiet. People (moderators and other posters) have taken offense to your posts on various threads and single you out for thread-drift and other infractions (although it occurs daily by so many others)and you have been practicly rendered useless.

You have become that party guest that most people try to avoid. They don't want to look at your vacation pictures or have you try to sell them insurance. The really sad part is, they won't try to have a legitimate conversation with you either. When you enter, they leave the room or pick a fight - as if a fight were a way to justify their own egos and shortcomings. The atmosphere at the party changes and people move to other rooms. Meanwhile, the owners sit back and have a good laugh.

For change to be truly implemented, a voice of reason is required. You will have a very difficult time being that voice of reason, even though many of your posts are well-thought out and valid.   Perception becomes reality and you are perceived in a negative light by many people who have influenced this website.   I'm not saying that is right, far from it actually - it is just the way things are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: JennyO
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 09:40 AM

Shambles, you just proved GUEST's point with your quote :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 07:06 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: jeffp - PM
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 01:51 PM

Actually, they are not the bouncers' rules. They are the owner's rules. The bouncers just enforce them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 07:06 AM

Face the fact Shambles. If what you say is true and the mods could act according to thier own agendas, you would have been banned by a few of them from this site.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 07:02 AM

Our forum may well be subject to the whims of the owner but I do not see that our forum is also to be subject to the whims of their designates

It isn't. Your whole case is based on a nonsensical idea that the mods regularly act against the wishes of the site owner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 07:00 AM

Once again, we are subject to the whims of the owner and the designates of this site. If change is made, or if no change is made, it is the reflection of the "host". You and I can speak our minds, but we are not going to make the change. It would have happened already.

Some of us may be able to freely speak their minds.

Our forum may well be subject to the whims of the owner but I do not see that our forum is also to be subject to the whims of their designates - for are they not very much part of our forum? And is it not claimed, that they are only there to carrying out Max's 'rules'.

Though as they do know what actions each other are imposing - quite how Max is supposed to know what they are - let alone approve - is unclear. This latest gem from Snitchers Corner will demonstrate the on-going level of confusion.

Misleading title changes

My concern, posted now for many years follwing many similar 'cock-ops' is that no measures appear to be implemented as a result of them, in order to prevent these sort of 'cock-ups from happening in the future. It all appears to be a bit of a game that is played, with our forum's contributions as the football, combined with some elements of Ground Hog day.

Many posters support our 'moderators' efforts - largely as they believe them to be well-intention - and they are. But most posters do not have the information to express an informed opinion as to the effectiveness or counter-productive nature of these efforts.

To address this, I have made the suggestion for editing comments to be inserted where any form of imposed action is judged to be necessary and for editing comments to be limited to only where some form has actually taken place.

Then, not only would posters be able to judge the true nature and current level of these actions and for the first time express an informed opinion on them - our 'moderators' would also know what action each other were taking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 06 - 12:09 AM

I agree with Ron. Change ain't gonna happen. However, you have every right to keep posting Shambles. I agree with about half you say, and thank you for keeping on saying it. Part of the reason I drop in to this thread either as a 'guest' or as me is to see which of the crew is slagging you yet again. You have received much vitriol from people and it's interesting to see that many offensive posts to or about you are allowed to remain. C'est la vie I s'pose. I admire your guts, and I'll say this: you have a pair of brass ones, because basically you have been mostly alone in your fight with all kinds of folks here, and in the final analysis you have acquitted yourself in a more dignified manner than many of your adversaries.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 10:30 PM

"Ron - I have struggled with your post. You keep referring to fighting and battles - when I am simply trying to post my views. "
I have to disagree with you, at least the way it appears to me and perhaps others. Posting views is one thing, but the repeative nature turns it into a "battle". I will grant you that you end up taking most of the "hits", but you are also wearing a target for a t-shirt.

"And in most conflicts - isn't any appeal for peace and calm - usually isssued to both sides?"
Very true.


"Would you have been able to change your view - had I not (no matter how tediously) continued to try and post to discuss the issue and those trying to (equally tediously) to prevent this - had succeeded in their self serving, and neurosis driven, goals?"
I might have changed my mind if you got to the point earlier (remember my bullet point comments?). I think you have clouded the issues and made it difficult to understand what you are trying to accomplish.   

"I can only hope that - like you - other posters may be prepared to change their mind or at least to give the issue some serious thought and be able to freely discuss all aspect of our forum."
I think we do. I think you have become a special case for a variety of reasons that have been previously discussed. Sometimes a change is tactics is not a bad idea. These are not issues that can't be solved without compromise.

"I suspect those few who wish to prevent this discussion - would hope that that posters will not. Perhaps you could advise or make some suggested course of action to them also?"
Sure. Ignore this entire thread is one way - if you can't add anything constructive to the conversation, stay out. Simply knocking Shambles or any poster does not help - it merely shows that the poster has run out of ideas and can only attack the person.

What I did was to actually look at some of the threads you posted and I could see SOME of the issues in a different light.

Once again, we are subject to the whims of the owner and the designates of this site. If change is made, or if no change is made, it is the reflection of the "host". You and I can speak our minds, but we are not going to make the change. It would have happened already.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 10:01 PM

There does seem to be some confusion over whether simply abstaining from capital letters and naughty words equates to sense, reason & eloquence.

It is probably a good start.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 09:57 PM

Subject: RE: Some buggars died.
From: Big Mick - PM
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 12:54 PM

Sometimes, when one is driven by self serving, and neurosis driven, goals, they fail to see the 2x4 in their own eye.


There is nothing wrong with changing a view, if you see another side. I changed my view about you and what you are fighting for. My "suggestion" that you inquired about would be that your point has been made, anything else you are adding to it is not helping your cause even though you may think so. There is no proof that you are getting any closer to your goals and merely proving points over and over is tedious and a poor reflection on what you have to offer. You can do better than this.

Ron - I have struggled with your post. You keep referring to fighting and battles - when I am simply trying to post my views. And in most conflicts - isn't any appeal for peace and calm - usually isssued to both sides?

Surely for any assumed battle on our forum to cease - it only requires those few posters and 'moderators' intent on trying to prevent discussion, to cease this attempt (and to be seen to lift the special restrictions on my posting)?

You refer to - my point being made and that adding to it is not helping 'my cause'. When I have no cause - and being able to continue to post in free, open and informed discussion on this issue and others - I see as an end in itself. One that is currently being denied to me.

Would you have been able to change your view - had I not (no matter how tediously) continued to try and post to discuss the issue and those trying to (equally tediously) to prevent this - had succeeded in their self serving, and neurosis driven, goals?

I can only hope that - like you - other posters may be prepared to change their mind or at least to give the issue some serious thought and be able to freely discuss all aspect of our forum.

I suspect those few who wish to prevent this discussion - would hope that that posters will not. Perhaps you could advise or make some suggested course of action to them also?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 07:08 PM

No confusion here. I wonder if like humour, Shambles doesn't 'travel well.'

There is a definite pond divide on who does and doesn't 'get' Shambles. With a couple of exceptions. Hi Ron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 07:02 PM

Wit & eloquence? Wit and eloquence???????

There does seem to be some confusion over whether simply abstaining from capital letters and naughty words equates to sense, reason & eloquence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 06:27 PM

'How is it shambles can post with wit and eloquence, while his detractors have to shout in capslock and spew bile?'

Many of the people who keep slagging Shambles have edit buttons. Think about THAT for fuck sake!


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 02:42 PM

"Two words to take issue with - 'Choose' and 'battles'. And I am also not sure what you mean by 'too late'?"

Choose - figure out what is really important to take a stand on.
Battles - simply another word for taking an alternate position
too late - before it reaches a point where you suffer the same fate as Martin Gibson

"It has never been my choice to battle at all."
It depends on how you define "battle".

"All I try and do is post my views."
You do, and you keep repeating it and repeating it. That is your tactic in battle, and I understand that.

"Are you suggesting that I must change my views as a result?"
Hell no!   I have actually come around to see your points and I do agree with some of the things you say.

"And change them
There is nothing wrong with changing a view, if you see another side. I changed my view about you and what you are fighting for. My "suggestion" that you inquired about would be that your point has been made, anything else you are adding to it is not helping your cause even though you may think so. There is no proof that you are getting any closer to your goals and merely proving points over and over is tedious and a poor reflection on what you have to offer. You can do better than this.


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Mudcat time: 24 November 2:47 AM EST

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