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BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.

The Shambles 28 Oct 06 - 05:40 AM
Joe Offer 28 Oct 06 - 05:39 AM
The Shambles 28 Oct 06 - 04:42 AM
Joe Offer 28 Oct 06 - 02:59 AM
number 6 28 Oct 06 - 01:55 AM
Peace 28 Oct 06 - 12:20 AM
GUEST 28 Oct 06 - 12:12 AM
GUEST 27 Oct 06 - 11:36 PM
catspaw49 27 Oct 06 - 11:33 PM
Big Mick 27 Oct 06 - 11:30 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 27 Oct 06 - 11:18 PM
catspaw49 27 Oct 06 - 09:20 PM
The Shambles 27 Oct 06 - 08:23 PM
Bill D 27 Oct 06 - 08:16 PM
Big Mick 27 Oct 06 - 07:50 PM
The Shambles 27 Oct 06 - 07:44 PM
bobad 27 Oct 06 - 07:33 PM
The Shambles 27 Oct 06 - 07:28 PM
number 6 27 Oct 06 - 06:17 PM
John MacKenzie 27 Oct 06 - 06:12 PM
Blowzabella 27 Oct 06 - 06:10 PM
MMario 27 Oct 06 - 04:09 PM
GUEST 27 Oct 06 - 04:07 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 27 Oct 06 - 03:59 PM
GUEST 27 Oct 06 - 03:49 PM
GUEST 27 Oct 06 - 03:43 PM
GUEST 27 Oct 06 - 03:26 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 27 Oct 06 - 03:22 PM
GUEST 27 Oct 06 - 03:00 PM
Big Mick 27 Oct 06 - 02:45 PM
catspaw49 27 Oct 06 - 02:34 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 27 Oct 06 - 02:32 PM
Big Mick 27 Oct 06 - 02:31 PM
catspaw49 27 Oct 06 - 02:22 PM
John MacKenzie 27 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM
The Shambles 27 Oct 06 - 02:19 PM
Big Mick 27 Oct 06 - 02:16 PM
The Shambles 27 Oct 06 - 02:15 PM
MMario 27 Oct 06 - 02:15 PM
The Shambles 27 Oct 06 - 02:05 PM
GUEST 27 Oct 06 - 01:58 PM
Wolfgang 27 Oct 06 - 01:39 PM
Big Mick 27 Oct 06 - 01:26 PM
Bill D 27 Oct 06 - 01:11 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 27 Oct 06 - 01:07 PM
The Shambles 27 Oct 06 - 01:06 PM
GUEST 27 Oct 06 - 12:59 PM
Big Mick 27 Oct 06 - 12:36 PM
The Shambles 27 Oct 06 - 12:32 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 05:40 AM

What again?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 05:39 AM

You're right, Shambles. I like you just fine, but

I can't tolerate all this repetition!!!! Aaaaaargh!!!!


Whew!
It feels better now. I'm OK. I just needed to let it out, for once...
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 04:42 AM

What has liking anyone got to do with the public being invited to post their views on a discussion forum - and just as importantly, what has it to do with all posters being expected to tolerate the views of others?

The following is the important thing to be seen to publicly discuss.

And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion.
Joe Offer


It is clear from this (for the record statement) that these 'best efforts' of closing threads and deleting posts have not provided our 'moderators' with what they require and that Max has been asked and has not yet implemented the requested change. So if you agree with this statement - what can you suggest to improve our forum.

And if you don't agree with it - this may be your only chance to be able to say so. Before:

It is the most shocking thing the animals have ever seen. It goes against everything that they have been taught up to then. Just as it seems that someone might object, the sheep break into a deafening chorus of "Four legs bad, two legs better."


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 02:59 AM

    I guess deep down everyone likes Shambles
I think you may be right, Number 6. His constant repetition and his flawed logic and paranoid rantings are obnoxious, but I can't help wondering what stunt he's going to pull next. He's a likeable fellow, despite himself.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: number 6
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 01:55 AM

That has always puzzled me Peace .... I guess deep down everyone likes Shambles ... or their buttons have easily been pushed by Shambles, but I can't see people being that stoopid.

Overall I can't see what all the squawking is all about ... Shambles says what he says ... some of it makes sense, some of it doesn't ... so what ... I certainly wouldn't call the hangin' judge in over it.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 12:20 AM

If Shambles wants to beat a dead horse, why does it bother you? Lots of worst posts are on Mudcat and the editing team doesn't give a shit about them. So way single out Shambles? This makes no fucking sense. He's posting this stuff on ONE thread. If you don't want to read it, don't. Simple, really. True, maybe Shambles IS beating a dead horse, but to even THAT up, gangs beat on Shambles. FAWK!


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 12:12 AM

"If you agree that Mudcat IS no longer pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion - what suggestions can you make to improve it?"

For starters Shambles you can stop beating a dead horse. But that will never happen. So therefore you will soon be gone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 11:36 PM

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 11:33 PM

The Garg is always capable.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 11:30 PM

Garg, that may be your finest post ever. Well done.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 11:18 PM

YIPES!

I have little clue....but when you are through....please pass the bottle of Absenth.

Sorry I invited any of you folk in here....this is worse than a Fellini "Meets Friday the Thirteenth" or "Coney Island of the Mind" waltzing with Whitman across "Thorough's Pound." (did you wipe your behind?)

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 09:20 PM

Half Brain Good. Full Brain Better.

How many times are you going to post that? It has no meaning here at all. Equally, you are not a martyr to a cause or a staunch defender of freedom............You are on the other hand, unable to see the forest for the trees. Soon one will fall on you.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 08:23 PM

Finally, Napoleon emerges from the farmhouse, upright and carrying a whip.

It is the most shocking thing the animals have ever seen. It goes against everything that they have been taught up to then. Just as it seems that someone might object, the sheep break into a deafening chorus of "Four legs bad, two legs better."

They went on for five minutes, during which the pigs walked briefly around and then returned to the farmhouse. The chance to protest is gone. Clover goes to the gable wall and brings Benjamin with her. She asks Benjamin to read for her what is on the gable wall.

All the commandments are gone, and all that is written there now is "All animals are equal, But some animals are more equal than others."

From Animal Farm by George Orwell


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 08:16 PM

and, he has gotten adept at 'skirting the line' with threads that 'almost' get into his crusade. The 'birthday' threads were in that area, but have become something else, due to mostly being 'on topic'.

I post to them at times...Like Mick, I'm not against Roger posting interesting stuff, even silly stuff. I just am weary with his flogging a dead horse until the quivers of the body LOOK like there's still life!


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 07:50 PM

Ron, for posterity's sake, I will correct mistatements so someone later doesn't believe a falsehood.

Shambles is not curtailed from posting in any thread he wants. He is allowed to post anywhere he so chooses. The only restriction on him is that he is not allowed to hijack the threads over to his personal crusade, as he has done many times in the past. This is what precipitated his restriction to having one thread to discuss his objections to how the forum is run. He is also restricted to one thread on this subject at a time. For a period of time he would start multiple threads on essentially the same subject, all with just a slightly different name. It got so bad that he was restricted to one thread. This is treatment that he earned.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 07:44 PM

I can't agree with everything, nor can I agree with the importance he places on it.

Could this have something to do with the fact that you are still free to express your view in any thread you wish - and I am not?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: bobad
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 07:33 PM

Whenever I happen by this thread I am reminded of the scene from the Fellini movie "Amarcord" where one of the characters threatens suicide by prying his mouth apart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 07:28 PM

And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion.
Joe Offer


Any chance of a discussion on the above?

1. Have they really been ALL of 'our best efforts'?

2. Is really Mudcat no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion?

3. If you think not - then what is the motivation behind such a 'for the record' public statement and what is its effect?

4. If you agree that Mudcat IS no longer pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion - what suggestions can you make to improve it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: number 6
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:17 PM

"Oh, help me in my weakness,"
I heard the drifter say,
As they carried him from the courtroom
And were taking him away.
"My trip hasn't been a pleasant one
And my time it isn't long,
And I still do not know
What it was that I've done wrong."

Well, the judge, he cast his robe aside,
A tear came to his eye,
"You fail to understand," he said,
"Why must you even try?"
Outside, the crowd was stirring,
You could hear it from the door.
Inside, the judge was stepping down,
While the jury cried for more.

"Oh, stop that cursed jury,"
Cried the attendant and the nurse,
"The trial was bad enough,
But this is ten times worse."
Just then a bolt of lightning
Struck the courthouse out of shape,
And while ev'rybody knelt to pray
The drifter did escape."

drifter's escape .... B. Dylan


biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:12 PM

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Blowzabella
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 06:10 PM

what's OCD?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 04:09 PM

It's always easier to not respond "badly" when someones "bad" behavior is provoked by yourself in the first place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 04:07 PM

Of course, a case can be made that Shambles retaliates in his own manner, but I will give him the benefit.

Retaliates? The accusations come from shambles. shambles is the agressor. The mods, notably Joe Offer constantly wind up defending themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:59 PM

"Ron, I can not believe you would have handled the situation anywhere near as well."

You are correct. I give Shambles credit for not responding in the same manner.   Of course, a case can be made that Shambles retaliates in his own manner, but I will give him the benefit.

However, I don't know if I would have let the situation reach a point like that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:49 PM

What's an OCD?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:43 PM

Re 3: While I can agree some things would perhaps have been said better or not said at all, my opinion is that considering Joe Offer has more or less been accused of wrong doing, each day for the past 6 years, he has overall kept his patience pretty well. Given what you say about trips to dentists, Ron, I can not believe you would have handled the situation anywhere near as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:26 PM

As the number of shambles OCD'ers dwindle they have to post more to keep up the charade that they speak for the majority. Note how their posts are littered with self reassuring descriptors - that they speak for large/many numbers. We are left with 5 maybe 6 of them flapping around like guppies.

But what you are being treated to here is a totally one sided manipulative view of proceedings. The thread 'Open Letter to Max', that was started with the sole intention to yet again gang up on shambles, turned into the opposite. The posters criticising the OCD'ers far outweighed those berating shambles.

And lo and behold it was closed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:22 PM

I am not in a position to tell anyone what they WANT to hear. Just like everyone else on this thread, I am giving my opinion and reflections on what I see.

Since this thread has reached War & Peace proportions, let take the soapbox and sum up what I see.

1.) Shambles has some legitimate concerns about his treatment, and he also made some good SUGGESTIONS.

2.) Some of the comments made against Shambles are unnecessary. I sincerely suspect that most of the comments would not be made if you were face to face. If someone said some of those things to my face, they would be paying a visit to the dentist.

3.) Joe (as well as the other moderators)has done an amazing job as a volunteer on this website. Personally, I feel that he has said a few things publicly that perhaps it would have been better to keep to himself. That does not make him a villain, nor is it grounds for dismissal.

4) In my opinion (let me stress that), I feel that Shambles does not possess very good debating skills and he has a difficult time making his point.   He would have been better served to simply outline his gripes, bullet point his suggestions, and avoid responding to all the garbage thrown at him. If he kept more to his course, he might have been more effective.

5.) Life sucks and then you die. People are going to be people, and some thing are beyond changing. It would be nice to have civil discussions and for everyone to take the time to examine another view. It won't always happen. You do not have to like everyone you meet. You are not required to have a good time. You can ignore what you want, respond to what you want, and say what you want - unless instructed by the owners of this site to do something else.   

As long as we are allowed in the pool and given loose guidelines, we can do what we will. Unless there is a sign posted to remind us not to pee, someone will spring a leak.

6.) Some perspective and context is needed.   This is a folk music forum after all. No ones life is in danger. Civil rights are not being violated. Children will not go to bed hungry because of what we do here. Women will not lose the right to vote because of things we type. All this self-righteous anger (and I include myself in this) is not necessary.

So, we go on. I have already apologized to Shambles for statements I made earlier in this discussion. I finally saw what he was trying to say, and I agreed with some of it.    I can't agree with everything, nor can I agree with the importance he places on it.

Life is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 03:00 PM

Ron,

Better yet, will you tell Shambles what he wants to hear?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:45 PM

Actually Ron, I would be happy if he would just contribute something positive and get off this incessant carping. But that would be like asking him not to breathe. It is not possible.

You should not worry about telling me anything about Roger. I am posting on this thread, simply to give you some background as to why things have gotten this way, and so you get something other than a one-sided view. I am quite certain you are plenty smart enough to draw your own conclusions. Agreement with me is not required, or desired. Guys like Peace disagree with me more than not, but I think the world of him. I know his motives are good. I cannot say the say for this poster.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:34 PM

LOL.....Good one Ron!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:32 PM

"Ron - for everyone's sake - will you tell Mick what he wants to hear?"

Sure thing.

Shambles has agreed not to say another word.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:31 PM

There you see another testament, Ron, to Roger's problems. When someone addresses someone other than him, it is bothersome. He will rail on, cut and paste, and try to shift the premise. I see that response as a lack of respect for both you and me. But that is OK, because the feeling on my part is mutual.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:22 PM

Well Wolfie its been a long time since we tried that tack! But of course we have as you know. Shambolina is just going to go and on................Everything has been thoroughly hashed from every conceivable angle and the stupid shit still goes on and on..........

It will end.

When the new baby arrives and Jeff's troubles are passed, a time will come when Max and Jeff will invest the energy and hours/days in doing the updates around here that they have been hoping to accomplish. The crash stuff is finally cleared so when they get ready to clean up the rest of that, they'll make some updates which they have been wanting to do. Numbnuts has been told in every possible way that he needs to cease and desist or he will be non-entity when that time comes.

Until then, those who like Roger need to tell him the fight is over and it would be in his best interests to call it a day. Hell, I used to like Roger's poetry and songs but this vendetta kinda' kills off any good feelings. But once again let me try...............

Shut up Roger.

You've stated all of your opinions far too many times already. Your vitriol comes across as an indirect if not totally direct attack on Max. Enough. Focus in on the reality. Here it is:

FROM MAX--"Our priority number 2 is to beef up the back end security of the site so that we can confront such issues. I cannot currently effectively enforce a ban on the savy. It would be too easy for them to find a workaround and get back in, now angry. Trust me, this matter will be dealt with in time. Trust me, we working as hard as we can to make this happen as soon as we can."

He's talking about you. Can't you see that? Shut up now Roger and enjoy what this place does offer you. Just stop. I said once before that I would support you (not that you give a shit) if you'd just drop the vendetta. Stop.

But I know, or at least suspect, this all falls on deaf ears and you will continue to be the pain in the ass you take pride in being right up until you find yourself outside and looking in.   Go ahead and keep weaseling around. I truly love reading the way you can twist and modify virtually anything to your arguments. Your garbled syntax and wacko logic has become some of the most enjoyable stuff that many of us read here.   But it will end. Whether you believe it or not, it will end. Why not try and stop?

Nah.....Can't do it can you?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM

There ya go again Roger, calling it a discussion when it isn't!


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM

Rather than an analogy, I'll offer an actual event that happened with a person I knew. This person endlessly complained about a particular hair dresser in a beauty Salon that she went to. No matter how much the hair dresser tried to satisfy this person, she was always extremely critical after each visit. This person complained so endlessly that she finally succeeded in getting the hair dresser fired. There was so much upset in the beauty salon among the other hair dressers that the employer investigated the matter more thoroughly and discovered that the problem was the customer, not the hair dresser. The hair dresser that was fired was well-liked by her other customers.

The next time this person came to the beauty salon to have her hair done, the owner spoke to her and told her that she had caused so much trouble with her endless complaints that she was no longer welcome in the store and was told to take her business elsewhere.

This is not an analogy. The woman was a close friend of a woman I was dating at the time.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:19 PM

Ron - for everyone's sake - will you tell Mick what he wants to hear?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:16 PM

And finally, Ron, you see another of his neurotic tools. When folks start to enunciate what is wrong, he will then cut and paste ad nauseum and try to overwhelm the conversation. This has been going on for years. He apparently cannot accept the fact that there are other views, and other logic. And he cannot seem to understand that this is just a message board, and not the center of the universe. It is attitudes like his, rather than Joe's, that make it hard to be a place of good feelings and discussion.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:15 PM

Go to any other themed message board and see if there are any posts similar to what appears below the line here. They are edited out and it is expected that they will be. You should thank Max for even allowing this foolishness to continue. Criticisms are certainly not called for.

I do thank Max for this. It is not me who is complaining about his posting policy toward BS nor is it me who is suggesting it should be changed to suit my requirements.

Or do you not consider the following to be the most fundamental complaint and criticism of our forum?

And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion.
Joe Offer


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:15 PM

Unfortunately for your premise, Shambles, cause and effect are reversed - as many, in fact MOST of your qoutes occur AFTER the changes that you claim came about because of the actions of the moderators.

Though I will admit it becomes bvery hard to tell just WHAT premise you are trying to defend, given the number of unrelated and irrelevant qoutes you include.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 02:05 PM

Not necessarily so. First of all, your label of "bad mouth" is simply your opinion. The quote that you have cut and paste numerous times is simply an opinion from Joe.

Ron - you will accept that: The quote that you have cut and paste numerous times is simply an opinion from Joe is simply your opinion?

I will post it again so any posters new to this discussion can make up their own minds, if it was simply this? And to for them to be able to judge for themselves what its intention and effect on our forum was.

Even though the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team does not limit his opinions to posts or limit his editing comments to only where some action has been imposed - I have little doubt what the intention and effect of the following is.
And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion. It may be only my opinion - but it is one based on the facts rather than in spite of them.

First - it is stated to be For the record. and the use of the words 'our' and 'we' more suggests that the poster is speaking on behalf of like-minded other 'moderators' but it is not clear if these were even aware.

For the record, I have already asked Max to make Members-Only posting in the "BS" section, and I think membership should be granted only to those with verifiable e-mail addresses (you register, and then get a password sent back to you). So far, Max hasn't said anything about being ready to make the change
Joe Offer

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a long time, I opposed members-only posting, because I didn't want to scare away visitors or make Mudcat a closed, exclusive club. And yes, we have a lot of that exclusivity already - I feel like an outsider myself when I go into the "BS" section. But our nastiness has been too much, and it has gone on far too long, to the point where it's impossible to carry on an intelligent discussion on most non-music subjects nowadays. I have three Mudcatters on 100% review much of the time, and I have to do partial review on a number of others, and then I have to deal with all sorts of petty complaints about so-and-so saying this or that - and I deny about half the deletion requests I get, and undelete a fair number of messages deleted by JoeClones.

And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion. So, I think something has to be done. Ebbie's suggestion about putting Secret Santa in the music section is a very simple answer to one major objection I had to members-only BS posting - duh, why didn't I think of that?

So, short of members-only posting, what can we do to bring peace to this place? I'd rather have another solution, but I haven't been able to think of one.
-Joe Offer-
----------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I really can't defend our editorial actions, and I have no reason to defend anything to an idiot who can make such a big deal about the addition of three little words, "in the UK," to a thread title. We just try to do what we think is right, to make things run a little more smoothly around here. That's basically what Max asked us to do when he gave us editing buttons. And we volunteers don't pretend to sit in judgment over anybody here, as you so often contend. We're just here to deal with the problems.

If that's not satisfactory to you, so be it. Tough shit, in other words. Nobody named you judge and jury. And despite your four-year campaign, you haven't been able to convince Max to crack down on us volunteers, have you? Doesn't that tell you something?

-Joe Offer-
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shambles, go whine somewhere else, or maybe we should start threads about you and the sheep or something.
Joe Offer
-----
But Shambles believes in this sort of thing, so I think that maybe this would be a good opportunity to smear his reputation. Shambles, I'm sick of you and your shit
Joe Offer.
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Ah, Shambles - we make an exception for you, since you seem to think it's a good thing to have personal attacks. We want to keep you happy, after all. Your whining is so annoying.
Joe Offer
------
Yes, I think you may well be first on the list, my friend. It's time for you either to shut up, or to use a name and take responsibility for what you have to say. If you continue to refuse to use a name, you will be come a non-person around here, and every single message you post will be deleted.
Free speech is fine, but you're just a pain in the ass.
-Joe Offer-
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Give us a break - we volunteer editors don't get paid to do this work, you know. We're here because we enjoy being part of this community and we want it to be a peaceful, enjoyable place to visit.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 01:58 PM

Wolfgang,

You should know better then to ask Shambles a direct question. He never, ever answers them. He only asks questions of others.

This is not a store, a business, a party or any other analogy that has been made. This is an internet message board. As such, it has its own set of rules and regulations. What is proper conduct here is determined by the owner of the board. It is not run to make money so it doesn't really matter if those who come here like the rules and regulations. No one says they have to stay or come back. The owner receives nothing for satisfying them and loses nothing if they are not satisfied.

This message board was founded to be a source of information on folk and related types of music. This is confined to the top of the line. Any other message board that I take part in enforces sticking to the theme of the board. There is not one other board that I know of that would allow any of the postings below the line here to stay on their board. These postings are not relevant to the theme of the board. Shambles, you should give credit to Max and the moderators for even allowing below the line threads. They are certainly an optional part of this board. As such, they can be run by whatever rules Max ALLOWS. By not stopping the actions of a moderator Max is allowing those actions to continue. It's his call and no one elses.

Go to any other themed message board and see if there are any posts similar to what appears below the line here. They are edited out and it is expected that they will be. You should thank Max for even allowing this foolishness to continue. Criticisms are certainly not called for. Where I come from you would be considered a bore, an ingrate and someone who should be kept from encouraging others to view the owner and his agents as negative influences. On any other board you would be banned for life. I know that you could care less what anyone says but that's what it is like in the real world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 01:39 PM

I like the analogy used by Shambles. If I was another customer more contented with the employees I'd consider it extremely impolite if one customer not contented with the employees would complain loudly each day in the shop about the employees both for the customers and the employees to hear (we know this type of customer, don't we?). I'd think the adult way of action would be to bring his issue to the attention of the employer and if the action or inaction of the employer would not what he would like it to be to shop somewhere else instead of daily repeating the complaints in the shop for everyone to hear. As I said already I like the anylogy introduced by Shambles.

Just BTW, Shambles, have you ever complained privately at Max about his volunteer employees and if so, what was the gist of his response?

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 01:26 PM

What Bill said. Or, I could answer you this way.

For the same reason you can't ignore me, or him.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 01:11 PM

wrong question. Why 'don't' you ignore him? Because he has for several years criticized the basic way the place is run, and made ridiculous insinuations about the moderators and various members, pretending that if he complains 'nicely', it excuses the incessant nature of it all.

You could ask HIM whay he doesn't (or can't) accept how things are done and not keep this crusade going.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 01:07 PM

"It would probably not be a smart employer who allowed their employees to be seen to publicly bad mouth not only their product - but their customers. "

Not necessarily so. First of all, your label of "bad mouth" is simply your opinion. The quote that you have cut and paste numerous times is simply an opinion from Joe. Most "employers" would not disagree that an honest evaluation of pros and cons will actually help the image of the company and go far to improving. Companies need to be open and honest.

As for bad mouthing a customer, it is easy to say that it is a no-no. However in reality there are often circumstances where it is necessary and will actually build respect. A customer who tries to get away with behavior that disrupts my business needs to be dealt with. Hopefully things won't get out of hand, but sometimes they do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 01:06 PM

Roger- you pride yourself on not stooping to name-calling and personal insults, as you note has happened to you at times, but that quoted sentence IS an insult to most of the folks who have tried to discuss this for the last few months or years!

You are welcome to your view and unlike me - you can still express this view in any thread you wish.

My view is the quoted sentence would not be judged an insult to anyone who is not scratching around trying to find one. Sadly some posters do not have to scratch around looking for insults they can own - these are only now too evidently encouraged on our forum.

Bill -I can show you what an real insult is in PMs - if you wish? In fact I would take great pleasure in being able to restore the balance.

No it it is not an insult. It remains a simple basic fact, if one, as a proud defender of the double standard of posting behaviour on our forum, you do not wish to accept.

Any new poster will assume from one of Micks best posts - containing only his self-confressed 'intolerant comments' - that if it is seen to be good enough for our 'moderators' on our forum - such posting is good enough for them also. Despite posts like the following.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick - PM
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 04:14 PM

I agree that if one uses personal attacks on Shambles, they will be eliminated. If they are responding to him, silly though I believe that to be, that will be allowed.


And if our 'moderators' are seen to take no action when favoured posters like Catspaw is in full scatological personal insult mode - a new poster could safely assume that no action will be taken and that it would be safe for them to follow this posting example.

And many have. But have not been eliminated........

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,jOhn - PM
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 11:06 AM

Shambles-you piss me off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 12:59 PM

Why can't you ignore him?


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 12:36 PM

Ron, you can see in these last few days a prime example of how this goes. This poster will post a flawed analogy, or create a flawed premise, and then get you all to debate it until you realize that you have been duped. This is one of the many behaviours that have been going on for years. You have also seen, and been the recipient of another of his unacceptable behaviours, that being his intolerance for any deviation from his absolute view of how things should be.

Here are a couple of more examples of setting a false premise:

.... they will understandably follow the example of posting behavious seen to set by our 'moderators'

This shows the lack of respect Shambles has for the intelligence of posters, as if they are led by us. Proof to the contrary is how some posters react when we post our opinions.

....perhaps you would also agree that our 'moderators' do not appear to much like the forum that results from their posting example being followed.....


Of course I wouldn't agree. If the moderators didn't like our forum, in the main, they wouldn't stay. I can't speak for the rest, but I love this forum, but am very disturbed when someone bullies others, and covers it up with a phoney "nice" demeanor.

And perhaps you could explain why a few posters so vocally support the continuation of 'best efforts' that the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing team has publicly stated have not been able to make Mudcat - a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion


Simple. This is because the owner has not, as of yet, been able to take time from living a life, raising children, getting married, making a living, etc., to deal completely with this. Furthermore, he keeps this thing alive out of his own pocket, assisted to a small extent by contributions from some of us. But Shambles, locked in his little world, can't see that and continues to try and make this in his vision. He contributes nothing financially, very little musically anymore, and tries to tear down the structure that Max has in place which allows Max to keep it going. I know this is hard to see from the mental place that Shambles is locked in, but Max has other things in this world. Mudcat, on a scale of the most important things to occupy his time, probably finishes a poor 6th or 7th to the family and making a living, and if he weren't so committed should be about 20th. Shambles inability to see this, along with his being a self centered twit, is why I am so intolerant.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Oct 06 - 12:32 PM

No smart employer would jump to conclusions or build up walls simply because something did not happen "by the books".

It would probably not be a smart employer who allowed their employees to be seen to publicly bad mouth not only their product - but their customers.


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