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st georges day a public holiday

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The Sandman 09 Aug 06 - 01:45 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Aug 06 - 10:45 AM
GUEST 09 Aug 06 - 10:14 AM
GUEST, Topsie 09 Aug 06 - 09:50 AM
The Sandman 09 Aug 06 - 09:49 AM
The Sandman 09 Aug 06 - 09:41 AM
Scrump 09 Aug 06 - 09:28 AM
GUEST 09 Aug 06 - 09:09 AM
The Sandman 09 Aug 06 - 09:05 AM
Dave Wynn 08 Aug 06 - 11:48 AM
Dave Wynn 08 Aug 06 - 11:39 AM
Emma B 08 Aug 06 - 08:16 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Aug 06 - 08:05 AM
jacqui.c 08 Aug 06 - 08:04 AM
kendall 08 Aug 06 - 07:49 AM
manitas_at_work 08 Aug 06 - 07:43 AM
GUEST 08 Aug 06 - 07:29 AM
Dave Wynn 08 Aug 06 - 06:56 AM
Dave Wynn 08 Aug 06 - 06:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Aug 06 - 05:04 PM
GUEST 07 Aug 06 - 05:00 PM
The Sandman 07 Aug 06 - 04:36 PM
Emma B 07 Aug 06 - 01:38 PM
The Sandman 07 Aug 06 - 01:31 PM
Robertlouis 07 Aug 06 - 01:10 PM
The Borchester Echo 07 Aug 06 - 12:08 PM
GUEST 07 Aug 06 - 12:00 PM
Dave Wynn 07 Aug 06 - 11:40 AM
The Borchester Echo 07 Aug 06 - 11:38 AM
GUEST, Topsie 07 Aug 06 - 11:21 AM
woodsie 07 Aug 06 - 10:55 AM
woodsie 07 Aug 06 - 10:50 AM
GUEST,Jon 07 Aug 06 - 08:39 AM
Scrump 07 Aug 06 - 08:34 AM
Scrump 07 Aug 06 - 08:32 AM
Liz the Squeak 07 Aug 06 - 08:19 AM
Robertlouis 07 Aug 06 - 07:44 AM
jacqui.c 07 Aug 06 - 07:23 AM
webfolk 07 Aug 06 - 07:10 AM
Scrump 07 Aug 06 - 06:52 AM
webfolk 07 Aug 06 - 06:25 AM
The PA 07 Aug 06 - 06:14 AM
GUEST, Topsie 07 Aug 06 - 05:31 AM
Scrump 07 Aug 06 - 04:23 AM
GerryMc 07 Aug 06 - 03:46 AM
Paco Rabanne 07 Aug 06 - 03:40 AM
Paul Burke 07 Aug 06 - 03:38 AM
The Borchester Echo 07 Aug 06 - 03:14 AM
Manitas_at_home 07 Aug 06 - 02:51 AM
Liz the Squeak 07 Aug 06 - 01:43 AM
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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 01:45 PM

topsie I meant that they celebrate with their own folk dancing.,if they want to study morris dancing, why not . but I wouldnt force anybody to do anything thay didnt wantTO.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 10:45 AM

I guess that must be because old Vic was not too amused?

:D (tG)


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 10:14 AM

There is not now and never was a post of Scottish Poet Laureate.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 09:50 AM

Captain Birdseye,
Do you mean that Bulgarians, Catalans etc. who are in England should celebrate with their traditions alongside our activities here, or do you want to make them do morris dancing and such like in their own countries, as if St George was our property and they are just copying us in having him as their patron saint?


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 09:49 AM

william Topaz mcgonagall[ apologies for the earlier incorrect spelling] was born in edinburgh in 1825, that makes him scottish.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 09:41 AM

Mcgonigle considered himself to be scottish ,otherwise he woud not have tried to approach Queen victoria about wanting to be scottish poet laureate. Where he was born is also important in determining his nationality.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 09:28 AM

Hey, that's got me thinking. I assume you're talking there about Wm MacGonagall, poet and tragedian? I wonder if anyone's ever set any of his famed works such as the Tay Bridge Disaster to music? If not, maybe I could have a go myself :-)

(Sorry this is off topic but I didn't start it!)

As for the St Crispin's thing, that sounds good to me, especially the 40 days and nights' drinking #~)


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 09:09 AM

'mcgonigle's' parents were Irish.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 09:05 AM

all other countries that celebrate st georges day, bulgaria, georgia portugal,catalonia,should be encouraged to celebrate their own traditions alongside the english , along with the celebration of william shakespeare.wouldnt it be fun if scotland celebrated mcgonigle as wellas burns.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:48 AM

Kendall we haven't been able to standardise english spelling for thousands of years (colour /color and center/ centre etc) but it doesn't prohibit good communication. To be honest I was thinking about the few percentage of people who suffer from Dyslexia and how difficult and sometimes embarrassing for them to be upbraided on a public forum because of spelling errors. If the meaning is obvious then it's good enough for me.

I do appreciate your point of view however. The people who just don't care to learn when they could are indeed an irritant. (I have just cut and pasted this into Word and spell and grammar checked it just in case I shot myself in the foot)

Spot the Dog


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:39 AM

Alas poor Perishers, I knew them well.

Spot the Dog


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:16 AM

Well St Crispin is the patron saint of glovemakers too so maybe we could tie it in with Shakespeare after all.
- and for that special supper - nothing better than a Marlon "special" tomato ketchup butty!


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:05 AM

Wellington was Irish.

Little do you know. He was the creation of Maurice Dodd. Did the Perishers not give the game away?

St Crispin's slogan would be 'Cobblers to England'.

Of course it would. In the true tradition of the Carry On films. Come to think of it we could celebrate with 24 hour showings of these classics of cinematography.

Kendall - If you don't know how to spell it how can you look it up in a dictionary?

:D (tG)


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:04 AM

"Jacqui, my dear, I believe the English ARE different from the Scots and the Irish"

Oh yes - the English are the ones who paint their faces and shout scary slogans before going into battle nowadays - or is that English footie louts?

Whatever - I think that it is time that we English took back our reputation from the ignorant element who seem to be doing the damndest to maitain the unpopularity of the country as a whole.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: kendall
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 07:49 AM

Jacqui, my dear, I believe the English ARE different from the Scots and the Irish.

Spot, would you have us return to the days before standardized spelling when everyone spelled words any way they wished? What a mish mash that was!
It's true that many people don't spell, but CAN'T? How about a dictionary?


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 07:43 AM

Are you talking about the boy or the duke? The boy was English - and his dog was an Old English Sheepdog to boot. The duke made a comment about racehorses and stables.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 07:29 AM

Wellington was Irish. St Crispin's slogan would be 'Cobblers to England'.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 06:56 AM

........Or was that St Swithins day and rain......I have difficulty remembering things these days.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 06:43 AM

Thats it then. Decided. We are quorate and have a vote of two for St Crispins Day. I will arrange the printing and contact the BBC and ITN, CNN and radio Lancashire (as the most important county in England). DtG Could you arrange T-shirts, etched beer mugs and tea mugs with the St Crispin Logo (Old English Sheep dog rampant on a field of holt's bitter.)

Makes you feel proud I tell you.

Spot the Dog

p.s. a little known tradition associated with St Crispin is that if you have a drink of beer on St Cripsins day then you stay ratlegged for 40 days and nights.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 05:04 PM

Yay for St Crispin, the Battle of Agincourt, Wellington and Maurice Dodds birthday and the day the Perishers started:-)

Plus it could be the 3rd Monday to give people chance to recover from our festival. I'm right behind you, Spot.

:D (tG)


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 05:00 PM

Robertlouis is incorrect. 1603 united the kingdoms but both countries still had their own parliaments. In 1707 the parliaments were united and Scotland and England became one country. In 1801 the Irish pariament was added and we had one monarchy and one parliament. Presently we have a united kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and by this definition Northern Ireland is not British but a member of the UK along with Great Britain.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 04:36 PM

If you google Saint georges day in England ,it says Andrew rosindell.mp for Romford has been putting his argument that it should include folk dancing and music and battle renactments.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 01:38 PM

April 23rd is too close to the wonderful ancient and modern celebration of May Day


http://www.infoplease.com/spot/mayday.html

Surely St Cecilia the patron of muscians would be a good choice and our cousins in the southern hemisphere could have a nice day out at the beach!


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 01:31 PM

St georges day is celebrated on 6 may in serbia and bulgaria, they are using the julian calendar , and nov 23rd in georgia. In the 12 hundreds it was a public holiday.so its been done before. it was apparantly on a par with christmas in importance up to the fifteenth century, and april 23 is both shakespeares birthday and the day he died. may 6 is the julian calendars equivalent of april23rd.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Robertlouis
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 01:10 PM

April 23rd is as good as any and better than most except for the rare occasions when it coincides with Easter.

One thing you shouldn't do is take any event after 1603 and describe it as English, because after that date the concept of the UK came into being. That's why Trafalgar (1805) wouldn't work. Comemmorating battles will always end up offending someone. Best go with a semi-mythical middle-eastern good man or a dragonslayer, I reckon.

And I'm still up for a Shakespeare Supper, as long as it wouldn't feature the main dish from Coriolanus or Shylock's delicacy.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 12:08 PM

Somebody above wanted to rename the August bank holiday the Feast of St. Diana and celebrate it by driving round drunk. There is no St Diana, she only achieved beatitude a good 700 years after her death in the 13th century. It was for this reason that my baptism was disallowed by the local priest and my parents had to shop around for a more liberal one who would bestow me with such a 'heathen' name. The delay on her elevation is attributed to dubious behaviour of the nuns at their Dominican convent and I don't think anyone ever described tham as 'virgin martyrs'. Diana's feastday is 9 June.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 12:00 PM

St Crispin is the patron saint of cobblers so I think he would be a suitable saint for England.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 11:40 AM

St Crispin must be in the running. His feast day is 25th October so this would share out across the calendar nicely and His feast day co-incides with the battle of Agincourt. What better way to celebrate Engishness.......(ducks and runs for cover).

Spot the Dog

p.s. and what is this stupid preoccupation with correct spelling. Some people can and some people can't, surely it's what one tries to say that matters not how one spells it.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 11:38 AM

St Augustine of Canterbury's day is 28 May but St Augustine of Hippo (earlier and far more interesting, having been extremely sinful until the writings of St Anthony caused him to become boring) has a feast day on 28 August. Neither is very suitable as their days have been superseded by present day bank holidays.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 11:21 AM

Does he have a saint's day? If so, when? August springs to mind.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: woodsie
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 10:55 AM

Some interesting stuff on St Augustine


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: woodsie
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 10:50 AM

St Augustine would be my nomination.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 08:39 AM

Scrump, if you want to use them do it like this:

&lt; gives <
&gt; gives >


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 08:34 AM

Oops, my "snip"s enclosed in angle brackets (less than and greater than signs) didn't appear in my post, probably because they were thought to be HTML tags of some sort. Apologies to the people I quoted, but I did try!


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 08:32 AM

Replying to a few comments in one posting to save bandwidth ;-)

From: jacqui.c

If the day was more noted there is a possibility that, in time, more English people would become aware of it and the next generation might find more reason to celebrate.

Yes, it would have to start in a small way and gather momentum, presumably as must have happened with, say, St Patrick's Day. The sooner we start, the sooner it will be celebrated widely :)

From: Robertlouis

If the English want to celebrate their national day, that's fine, but a public holiday is a step too far. I'd be up for a Shakespeare Supper on April 23rd!!

Not a bad idea, but I think a Shakespeare supper would take longer to catch on with the public at large, than a full-blown public holiday with suitable events (whatever they are - open to discussion) :D

From: Liz the Squeak

St Michael - Patron saint of Underwear and beige twinsets.

Eh? What's he got to do with it? Damned usurper :)



(Todays other useless information ~ St Patricks day always falls during Lent so is especially celebrated: Lenten strictures prohibit the consuming of flesh, fowl, alcohol and dairy products EXCEPT on feast days).

Now there's a challenge - how to come up with a different feast day for every day of Lent ;-)


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 08:19 AM

St Michael - Patron saint of Underwear and beige twinsets.

The Civil Service in Northern Ireland grant their workers a holiday on March 17th, probably because although supposedly part of the Protestant UK, many of its inhabitants are Catholic and celebrate the feast day of St Patrick.

(Todays other useless information ~ St Patricks day always falls during Lent so is especially celebrated: Lenten strictures prohibit the consuming of flesh, fowl, alcohol and dairy products EXCEPT on feast days).

LTS


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Robertlouis
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 07:44 AM

St Patrick's Day is a public holiday in Ireland, but Ireland is a sovereign state and not part of the UK. Don't know what happens in N Ireland. Neither St David's Day (1st March) nor St Andrew's Day (30th November) are public holidays in either country and any celebrations are muted. Burns Night (25th January) is celebrated through Burns' Suppers but not with a holiday - although there may be some days off through hangovers on the 26th....

If the English want to celebrate their national day, that's fine, but a public holiday is a step too far. I'd be up for a Shakespeare Supper on April 23rd!!


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 07:23 AM

Geoff - how do the Irish, Scots and Welsh celebrate their own national days? There must be as many differing ideas there as there would be in England.

I think that it would be a move forward if the authorities were prepared to accord the day the same allowance as is given, in particular it seems, to St Patrick's Day. Even now there are cases of refusal to extend licensing hours for 23 April, on the basis that the day is not 'special'.

If the day was more noted there is a possibility that, in time, more English people would become aware of it and the next generation might find more reason to celebrate.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: webfolk
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 07:10 AM

Fair comment Scrump, there are far more non religious things happening at Easter than religious ones.

I would however, be interested in the wider perspective on how 'Englishness' could be celebrated, for I fear many of us are to 'embarrassed' for whatever reason, to do so.

As for dates and saints, I don't see how we can move from St George and the nearest weekend to that day, for whether we like it or not, that is the tradition we have inheritted.

Geoff


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 06:52 AM

webfolk wrote: "This is all very well, and we can argue till the Milton Keynes cows come home about the date, but surely more important is how we celebrate it. We folkies are in the minority here, most people do not want to listen to Child Ballads and watch Morris dancers, their concept of Englishness is far removed from that of those in the folk circuit."

Of course nobody would be able to dictate to anyone how the holiday is celebrated, any more than they can at, say, Easter (how many of the British population actually celebrate it as a religious festival? Not a very large proportion, I would guess).

But we could organise folk events (local festivals, etc.) to take place over the holiday weekend and those that want to attend could come along - you never know, it might get some non-folkies interested enough to attend other folk events during the rest of the year.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: webfolk
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 06:25 AM

This is all very well, and we can argue till the Milton Keynes cows come home about the date, but surely more important is how we celebrate it. We folkies are in the minority here, most people do not want to listen to Child Ballads and watch Morris dancers, their concept of Englishness is far removed from that of those in the folk circuit.

Geoff


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The PA
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 06:14 AM

As far as too many bank holidays occurring at the same time ie in May, at our company we are paid for the bank holidays as usual, but with the exception of Easter Monday and Christmas, we can take our 'bank holidays' whenever we want, and don't have to take them on the actual day. This suits out type of work really well, as we work all over the world and have to fit round other countries holidays. As for St Georges day I see absolutely no reason why we shouldn't celebrate it, no reason at all.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 05:31 AM

The advantage of the real whitsun was that it happened at a fixed number of weeks after Easter, keeping a sensible gap between the bank holidays.
I think an autumn holiday would be good, but earlier than Guy Fawkes.
What else did St Michael do? (Maybe we could have a kind of extra 'April Fools' and have a day for 'taking the Mick'?)


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 04:23 AM

I agree with Capt Birdseye (well said Cap'n) that the English should be given a bank holiday to celebrate their national culture and heritage, like the other nations do. But I also agree with Liz the Squeak that St George's Day is too close to Easter and Mayday bank holidays.

Why can't we just give St George an official birthday like the Queen, and declare that as the "English" bank holiday. Actually making it the Monday following the present Queen's official birthday (which is on Saturday) early in June wouldn't be a bad idea. We want it to be in the summer so outdoor events can take place (weather permitting, otherwise in the village hall ;-))

Then we could have lots of 3-day folk events around the country :-)


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GerryMc
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 03:46 AM

St. Arbuck is the patron saint of coffee. Perhaps we should have a national coffee day. Ooops, am I allowed to say national?


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 03:40 AM

Here here Captain.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 03:38 AM

Let's rename the August bank holiday the Feast of St. Diana, Virgin Martyr, and celebrate it by driving round drunk.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 03:14 AM

For the sake of diversity, in this year only, Rosh Hashanah and the beginning of Ramadan coincide on 23/24 September. St George is the patron saint of Palestine, after all.

Or, as it's all a lost cause anyway, St Jude on 28 October.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 02:51 AM

St Michael wuld do fine - her was a dragon slayer too!


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 01:43 AM

St Alban stands a better chance, his day could be celebrated during Wimbledon Fortnight... The Venemous Bede clashes with the Late Spring Bank Holiday (or 'Whitsun' as we used to call it!) and already has a fair number of festivals of traditional music and dance.

Personally, I feel we need a Bank Holiday between September and December.... maybe around Michaelmas (that's Sept 29th) or Trafalgar Day (Oct 21st)

LTS


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