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st georges day a public holiday

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The Sandman 06 Aug 06 - 07:34 AM
Brakn 06 Aug 06 - 08:20 AM
The Sandman 06 Aug 06 - 09:20 AM
Liz the Squeak 06 Aug 06 - 12:29 PM
GUEST,Pete 06 Aug 06 - 01:28 PM
GUEST 06 Aug 06 - 01:30 PM
The Sandman 06 Aug 06 - 02:13 PM
skipy 06 Aug 06 - 02:17 PM
GUEST 06 Aug 06 - 02:22 PM
webfolk 06 Aug 06 - 02:25 PM
The Borchester Echo 06 Aug 06 - 02:29 PM
Dave the Gnome 06 Aug 06 - 04:53 PM
jacqui.c 06 Aug 06 - 04:57 PM
Hillheader 06 Aug 06 - 04:59 PM
The Sandman 06 Aug 06 - 05:46 PM
Dave the Gnome 06 Aug 06 - 05:54 PM
Liz the Squeak 07 Aug 06 - 01:43 AM
Manitas_at_home 07 Aug 06 - 02:51 AM
The Borchester Echo 07 Aug 06 - 03:14 AM
Paul Burke 07 Aug 06 - 03:38 AM
Paco Rabanne 07 Aug 06 - 03:40 AM
GerryMc 07 Aug 06 - 03:46 AM
Scrump 07 Aug 06 - 04:23 AM
GUEST, Topsie 07 Aug 06 - 05:31 AM
The PA 07 Aug 06 - 06:14 AM
webfolk 07 Aug 06 - 06:25 AM
Scrump 07 Aug 06 - 06:52 AM
webfolk 07 Aug 06 - 07:10 AM
jacqui.c 07 Aug 06 - 07:23 AM
Robertlouis 07 Aug 06 - 07:44 AM
Liz the Squeak 07 Aug 06 - 08:19 AM
Scrump 07 Aug 06 - 08:32 AM
Scrump 07 Aug 06 - 08:34 AM
GUEST,Jon 07 Aug 06 - 08:39 AM
woodsie 07 Aug 06 - 10:50 AM
woodsie 07 Aug 06 - 10:55 AM
GUEST, Topsie 07 Aug 06 - 11:21 AM
The Borchester Echo 07 Aug 06 - 11:38 AM
Dave Wynn 07 Aug 06 - 11:40 AM
GUEST 07 Aug 06 - 12:00 PM
The Borchester Echo 07 Aug 06 - 12:08 PM
Robertlouis 07 Aug 06 - 01:10 PM
The Sandman 07 Aug 06 - 01:31 PM
Emma B 07 Aug 06 - 01:38 PM
The Sandman 07 Aug 06 - 04:36 PM
GUEST 07 Aug 06 - 05:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Aug 06 - 05:04 PM
Dave Wynn 08 Aug 06 - 06:43 AM
Dave Wynn 08 Aug 06 - 06:56 AM
GUEST 08 Aug 06 - 07:29 AM
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Subject: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 07:34 AM

Andrew Rosindell tried to introduce a bill to make st georges day a public holiday, and a celebration of english heritage, including english folk heritage, that this m p regardless of his political party is the friend of all folk music lovers and should be lobbyed by the efdss, and folk music lovers everywhere to promote english dance and song. I am also in favour of promoting international folk dance and song, but one step at a time.DickMiles.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Brakn
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 08:20 AM

On "The Weakest Link" this week someone didn't even know the date. By now surely people must know when it is.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 09:20 AM

stGeorges day is april 23, shakespeare was born on this day,.it is celebrated in goergia , bulgaria ,portugal and catalonia. All the countries where it is celebrated could be encouraged to bring dance teams and singers       to celebrate it with the english at cecil sharp house. I am sure efdss must have already done this, or perhaps as their remit is only international song and english dance this is what they must have done.However if it was made a public holiday it could be celebrated by all folk singers and dancers throughout england and affiliated dance clubs etc.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 12:29 PM

One of the problems encountered when trying to make St George's day a public holiday is the proximity to other holiday dates.

Easter can come at any time from late March to late April bringing 2 Bank Holidays. First and last Mondays in May are also Bank Holidays. This can give a total of 4 Bank Holidays in as many weeks. If you are a civil servant, you might get an extra 'privilege' day for Easter and another for the Queen's birthday. Putting another fixed day in this would just be ridiculous ~ bank holidays are already badly placed at this end of the year.

The obvious option would be to change the Mayday Bank Holiday to the St George's Day Bank Holiday but keep it as the first Monday in May.

(Today's useless information ~ Civil Servants working in Northern Ireland have 2 more Bank Holidays than those working in England or Wales. Scotland has 1 more Bank Holiday. England is the only region that doesn't appear to have given time off to celebrate its patron saint).

LTS


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 01:28 PM

Sorry to sound cynical, but how many football fans knew they were flying St Georges flag on their cars and houses a few weeks ago?


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 01:30 PM

The very last thing anybody needs is a celebration of English nationalism. Get a grip and, I suspect, a life!


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 02:13 PM

I believe you are wrong , if the irish can celebrate, st patricks day, why an earth cant the english celebrate st georges day, its perfectly logical. I believe a celebration of William Shakespeare born on that day and one of englands finest playwrights and poets,Would be very apt. plus a celebration of things quintessentially english, morris dancing and sword dancing.The extreme right wing should not be allowed to hijack your english flag[ I live in Ireland]you should not confuse being proud of english culture with xenophobia ,and racism ., being proud of english culture is not the same as bieng anti foreigner. in fact if you would read my post properly, I suggested that other natonalities    that celebrate st georges day should be included.
   I suggest you learn some manners ,get yourself a brain,learn to read, get a grip, and come out from your shroud of anonymity and probably get a life yourself.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: skipy
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 02:17 PM

Fish Finger vendor, I am with you.
Skipy


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 02:22 PM

Fish finger boy, when you can learn to spell, then I'll take your messages seriously!

In the interim, nobody in England needs a celebration of the dragon killer.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: webfolk
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 02:25 PM

I wrote a song, entitled 'reclaim the flag' about the capture of the English and British flags by the "far right" and sang it once in my former local whare I was accused of racism by the landlord, who in fairness to him, I dont think listened. You can read the words on my web site at www.webfolk.net and follow the songs link to the title (reclaim the flag). I'd be interested in any feedback.
I have sung it since to acclamation.
On the subject though, I dont think we English know what to celebrate.

Geoff


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 02:29 PM

St Alban has been proposed as a more appropriate patron saint of England (being actually English), unlike St George who never even set foot here). His saint's day is 20 June. Personally, I would favour St Bede, scholar of Jarrow and interred in Durham Cathedral. His day is 27 May. Both jolly good days for Morris dancing (wherever that came from . . . )


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 04:53 PM

When you can sing and play as well as Dick Miles, Guest of 2:22, people might start to take you a little more seriously as well. And in answer to your other point there are still plenty dragons to be slain out there;-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: jacqui.c
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 04:57 PM

Nobody NEEDS a national day to celebrate. Many of us, whatever our nationality, WANT to celebrate.

Why should the English be any different from the Irish, Scots, or Welsh in this respect?


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Hillheader
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 04:59 PM

St Andrew's Day is not a holiday in Scotland. Civil Servants here do not get extra holiday. The do not get the August Bank Holiday for example and get 02 January instead. There is also the complication regarding local "Trades" holidays (Glasgow Fair Friday - after the second Monday!!! and September Monday - last in September) which are different from those in Paisley only 5 miles away and from Edinburgh only 40 miles away!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 05:46 PM

one spelling mistake, bieng , should have been being. what a pathetic riposte.now heres some really bad spelling aka just william.
wunn sppelllinng missteak phish phingar bouy. wen yew kan lurn too spelll, thenn aye will take yew serieouseley.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 05:54 PM

Is Burns day a public hol?


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 01:43 AM

St Alban stands a better chance, his day could be celebrated during Wimbledon Fortnight... The Venemous Bede clashes with the Late Spring Bank Holiday (or 'Whitsun' as we used to call it!) and already has a fair number of festivals of traditional music and dance.

Personally, I feel we need a Bank Holiday between September and December.... maybe around Michaelmas (that's Sept 29th) or Trafalgar Day (Oct 21st)

LTS


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 02:51 AM

St Michael wuld do fine - her was a dragon slayer too!


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 03:14 AM

For the sake of diversity, in this year only, Rosh Hashanah and the beginning of Ramadan coincide on 23/24 September. St George is the patron saint of Palestine, after all.

Or, as it's all a lost cause anyway, St Jude on 28 October.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 03:38 AM

Let's rename the August bank holiday the Feast of St. Diana, Virgin Martyr, and celebrate it by driving round drunk.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 03:40 AM

Here here Captain.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GerryMc
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 03:46 AM

St. Arbuck is the patron saint of coffee. Perhaps we should have a national coffee day. Ooops, am I allowed to say national?


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 04:23 AM

I agree with Capt Birdseye (well said Cap'n) that the English should be given a bank holiday to celebrate their national culture and heritage, like the other nations do. But I also agree with Liz the Squeak that St George's Day is too close to Easter and Mayday bank holidays.

Why can't we just give St George an official birthday like the Queen, and declare that as the "English" bank holiday. Actually making it the Monday following the present Queen's official birthday (which is on Saturday) early in June wouldn't be a bad idea. We want it to be in the summer so outdoor events can take place (weather permitting, otherwise in the village hall ;-))

Then we could have lots of 3-day folk events around the country :-)


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 05:31 AM

The advantage of the real whitsun was that it happened at a fixed number of weeks after Easter, keeping a sensible gap between the bank holidays.
I think an autumn holiday would be good, but earlier than Guy Fawkes.
What else did St Michael do? (Maybe we could have a kind of extra 'April Fools' and have a day for 'taking the Mick'?)


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The PA
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 06:14 AM

As far as too many bank holidays occurring at the same time ie in May, at our company we are paid for the bank holidays as usual, but with the exception of Easter Monday and Christmas, we can take our 'bank holidays' whenever we want, and don't have to take them on the actual day. This suits out type of work really well, as we work all over the world and have to fit round other countries holidays. As for St Georges day I see absolutely no reason why we shouldn't celebrate it, no reason at all.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: webfolk
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 06:25 AM

This is all very well, and we can argue till the Milton Keynes cows come home about the date, but surely more important is how we celebrate it. We folkies are in the minority here, most people do not want to listen to Child Ballads and watch Morris dancers, their concept of Englishness is far removed from that of those in the folk circuit.

Geoff


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 06:52 AM

webfolk wrote: "This is all very well, and we can argue till the Milton Keynes cows come home about the date, but surely more important is how we celebrate it. We folkies are in the minority here, most people do not want to listen to Child Ballads and watch Morris dancers, their concept of Englishness is far removed from that of those in the folk circuit."

Of course nobody would be able to dictate to anyone how the holiday is celebrated, any more than they can at, say, Easter (how many of the British population actually celebrate it as a religious festival? Not a very large proportion, I would guess).

But we could organise folk events (local festivals, etc.) to take place over the holiday weekend and those that want to attend could come along - you never know, it might get some non-folkies interested enough to attend other folk events during the rest of the year.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: webfolk
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 07:10 AM

Fair comment Scrump, there are far more non religious things happening at Easter than religious ones.

I would however, be interested in the wider perspective on how 'Englishness' could be celebrated, for I fear many of us are to 'embarrassed' for whatever reason, to do so.

As for dates and saints, I don't see how we can move from St George and the nearest weekend to that day, for whether we like it or not, that is the tradition we have inheritted.

Geoff


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 07:23 AM

Geoff - how do the Irish, Scots and Welsh celebrate their own national days? There must be as many differing ideas there as there would be in England.

I think that it would be a move forward if the authorities were prepared to accord the day the same allowance as is given, in particular it seems, to St Patrick's Day. Even now there are cases of refusal to extend licensing hours for 23 April, on the basis that the day is not 'special'.

If the day was more noted there is a possibility that, in time, more English people would become aware of it and the next generation might find more reason to celebrate.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Robertlouis
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 07:44 AM

St Patrick's Day is a public holiday in Ireland, but Ireland is a sovereign state and not part of the UK. Don't know what happens in N Ireland. Neither St David's Day (1st March) nor St Andrew's Day (30th November) are public holidays in either country and any celebrations are muted. Burns Night (25th January) is celebrated through Burns' Suppers but not with a holiday - although there may be some days off through hangovers on the 26th....

If the English want to celebrate their national day, that's fine, but a public holiday is a step too far. I'd be up for a Shakespeare Supper on April 23rd!!


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 08:19 AM

St Michael - Patron saint of Underwear and beige twinsets.

The Civil Service in Northern Ireland grant their workers a holiday on March 17th, probably because although supposedly part of the Protestant UK, many of its inhabitants are Catholic and celebrate the feast day of St Patrick.

(Todays other useless information ~ St Patricks day always falls during Lent so is especially celebrated: Lenten strictures prohibit the consuming of flesh, fowl, alcohol and dairy products EXCEPT on feast days).

LTS


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 08:32 AM

Replying to a few comments in one posting to save bandwidth ;-)

From: jacqui.c

If the day was more noted there is a possibility that, in time, more English people would become aware of it and the next generation might find more reason to celebrate.

Yes, it would have to start in a small way and gather momentum, presumably as must have happened with, say, St Patrick's Day. The sooner we start, the sooner it will be celebrated widely :)

From: Robertlouis

If the English want to celebrate their national day, that's fine, but a public holiday is a step too far. I'd be up for a Shakespeare Supper on April 23rd!!

Not a bad idea, but I think a Shakespeare supper would take longer to catch on with the public at large, than a full-blown public holiday with suitable events (whatever they are - open to discussion) :D

From: Liz the Squeak

St Michael - Patron saint of Underwear and beige twinsets.

Eh? What's he got to do with it? Damned usurper :)



(Todays other useless information ~ St Patricks day always falls during Lent so is especially celebrated: Lenten strictures prohibit the consuming of flesh, fowl, alcohol and dairy products EXCEPT on feast days).

Now there's a challenge - how to come up with a different feast day for every day of Lent ;-)


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 08:34 AM

Oops, my "snip"s enclosed in angle brackets (less than and greater than signs) didn't appear in my post, probably because they were thought to be HTML tags of some sort. Apologies to the people I quoted, but I did try!


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 08:39 AM

Scrump, if you want to use them do it like this:

&lt; gives <
&gt; gives >


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: woodsie
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 10:50 AM

St Augustine would be my nomination.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: woodsie
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 10:55 AM

Some interesting stuff on St Augustine


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 11:21 AM

Does he have a saint's day? If so, when? August springs to mind.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 11:38 AM

St Augustine of Canterbury's day is 28 May but St Augustine of Hippo (earlier and far more interesting, having been extremely sinful until the writings of St Anthony caused him to become boring) has a feast day on 28 August. Neither is very suitable as their days have been superseded by present day bank holidays.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 11:40 AM

St Crispin must be in the running. His feast day is 25th October so this would share out across the calendar nicely and His feast day co-incides with the battle of Agincourt. What better way to celebrate Engishness.......(ducks and runs for cover).

Spot the Dog

p.s. and what is this stupid preoccupation with correct spelling. Some people can and some people can't, surely it's what one tries to say that matters not how one spells it.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 12:00 PM

St Crispin is the patron saint of cobblers so I think he would be a suitable saint for England.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 12:08 PM

Somebody above wanted to rename the August bank holiday the Feast of St. Diana and celebrate it by driving round drunk. There is no St Diana, she only achieved beatitude a good 700 years after her death in the 13th century. It was for this reason that my baptism was disallowed by the local priest and my parents had to shop around for a more liberal one who would bestow me with such a 'heathen' name. The delay on her elevation is attributed to dubious behaviour of the nuns at their Dominican convent and I don't think anyone ever described tham as 'virgin martyrs'. Diana's feastday is 9 June.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Robertlouis
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 01:10 PM

April 23rd is as good as any and better than most except for the rare occasions when it coincides with Easter.

One thing you shouldn't do is take any event after 1603 and describe it as English, because after that date the concept of the UK came into being. That's why Trafalgar (1805) wouldn't work. Comemmorating battles will always end up offending someone. Best go with a semi-mythical middle-eastern good man or a dragonslayer, I reckon.

And I'm still up for a Shakespeare Supper, as long as it wouldn't feature the main dish from Coriolanus or Shylock's delicacy.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 01:31 PM

St georges day is celebrated on 6 may in serbia and bulgaria, they are using the julian calendar , and nov 23rd in georgia. In the 12 hundreds it was a public holiday.so its been done before. it was apparantly on a par with christmas in importance up to the fifteenth century, and april 23 is both shakespeares birthday and the day he died. may 6 is the julian calendars equivalent of april23rd.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 01:38 PM

April 23rd is too close to the wonderful ancient and modern celebration of May Day


http://www.infoplease.com/spot/mayday.html

Surely St Cecilia the patron of muscians would be a good choice and our cousins in the southern hemisphere could have a nice day out at the beach!


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 04:36 PM

If you google Saint georges day in England ,it says Andrew rosindell.mp for Romford has been putting his argument that it should include folk dancing and music and battle renactments.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 05:00 PM

Robertlouis is incorrect. 1603 united the kingdoms but both countries still had their own parliaments. In 1707 the parliaments were united and Scotland and England became one country. In 1801 the Irish pariament was added and we had one monarchy and one parliament. Presently we have a united kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and by this definition Northern Ireland is not British but a member of the UK along with Great Britain.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 05:04 PM

Yay for St Crispin, the Battle of Agincourt, Wellington and Maurice Dodds birthday and the day the Perishers started:-)

Plus it could be the 3rd Monday to give people chance to recover from our festival. I'm right behind you, Spot.

:D (tG)


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 06:43 AM

Thats it then. Decided. We are quorate and have a vote of two for St Crispins Day. I will arrange the printing and contact the BBC and ITN, CNN and radio Lancashire (as the most important county in England). DtG Could you arrange T-shirts, etched beer mugs and tea mugs with the St Crispin Logo (Old English Sheep dog rampant on a field of holt's bitter.)

Makes you feel proud I tell you.

Spot the Dog

p.s. a little known tradition associated with St Crispin is that if you have a drink of beer on St Cripsins day then you stay ratlegged for 40 days and nights.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 06:56 AM

........Or was that St Swithins day and rain......I have difficulty remembering things these days.


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Subject: RE: st georges day a public holiday
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 07:29 AM

Wellington was Irish. St Crispin's slogan would be 'Cobblers to England'.


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