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BS: Help mend my broken heart

GUEST,Just me 18 Jun 06 - 11:51 AM
GUEST 18 Jun 06 - 11:53 AM
Stilly River Sage 18 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM
kendall 18 Jun 06 - 12:06 PM
John MacKenzie 18 Jun 06 - 12:08 PM
open mike 18 Jun 06 - 12:09 PM
Georgiansilver 18 Jun 06 - 12:13 PM
Bobert 18 Jun 06 - 12:13 PM
Jeri 18 Jun 06 - 12:15 PM
CarolC 18 Jun 06 - 12:17 PM
GUEST,Just me 18 Jun 06 - 01:08 PM
wysiwyg 18 Jun 06 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,been somewhere near there 18 Jun 06 - 01:38 PM
Little Hawk 18 Jun 06 - 01:41 PM
Don Firth 18 Jun 06 - 02:04 PM
Little Hawk 18 Jun 06 - 02:08 PM
GUEST,Just me 18 Jun 06 - 02:41 PM
Don Firth 18 Jun 06 - 02:51 PM
wysiwyg 18 Jun 06 - 03:02 PM
Don Firth 18 Jun 06 - 03:14 PM
Little Hawk 18 Jun 06 - 03:25 PM
Don Firth 18 Jun 06 - 03:40 PM
Amos 18 Jun 06 - 03:46 PM
GUEST,been there 18 Jun 06 - 04:17 PM
Little Hawk 18 Jun 06 - 04:27 PM
GUEST,Just me 18 Jun 06 - 04:42 PM
Little Hawk 18 Jun 06 - 04:47 PM
kendall 18 Jun 06 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,mg 18 Jun 06 - 10:36 PM
Anonny Mouse 18 Jun 06 - 11:16 PM
Stilly River Sage 18 Jun 06 - 11:21 PM
number 6 18 Jun 06 - 11:27 PM
Sorcha 18 Jun 06 - 11:45 PM
freda underhill 19 Jun 06 - 01:15 AM
Little Hawk 19 Jun 06 - 01:33 AM
GUEST 19 Jun 06 - 01:52 AM
Big Al Whittle 19 Jun 06 - 05:35 AM
jacqui.c 19 Jun 06 - 07:06 AM
GUEST,Just me 19 Jun 06 - 03:21 PM
jacqui.c 19 Jun 06 - 04:33 PM
Little Hawk 19 Jun 06 - 04:36 PM
GUEST,mg 19 Jun 06 - 04:43 PM
GUEST 19 Jun 06 - 05:30 PM
kendall 19 Jun 06 - 05:58 PM
Stilly River Sage 19 Jun 06 - 05:59 PM
freda underhill 19 Jun 06 - 10:22 PM
Big Al Whittle 20 Jun 06 - 04:13 AM
GUEST 20 Jun 06 - 05:12 AM
Fibula Mattock 20 Jun 06 - 06:05 AM
Big Al Whittle 20 Jun 06 - 06:46 AM
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Subject: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST,Just me
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:51 AM

For the last 18 months or so a relationship I was forced to leave (I was forced out of the house) has been limping on. This other person goes into wild moods that I have no idea how to calm, with bizarre and illogical arguments I cannot claim to understand. So I am best shot of this person, right? You'd think so. But now in separate houses we've been continuously on/off. The other person always ends it then comes back and begs forgiveness. I let this happen because, though I know in my head I am unwise to keep this relationship on, my heart yearns for the best of what the relationship gave me. When I see this person the angels sing and everything goes in slow motion. But today again this person broke my heart with the same old pattern of destructive behaviour. Please try and give me some wisdom and help me come to my senses!


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:53 AM

See a psychologist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:57 AM

It sounds like you know what the answer is.

Good luck in your new life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:06 PM

Been there, done it, finally escaped with a broken heart. Now, after 8 years I'm married to the almost perfect woman.
You must make a space before anyone can fill it.
You know what you must do, and it aint easy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:08 PM

End it, once you get over that you will be able to start afresh. I mean it's not as if it's going anywhere is it? Life is too short for this sort of relationship, think of all the nice people out there you've yet to meet.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: open mike
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:09 PM

A counsellor can help you both see the patterns
and chose to work on them or go seperate ways.
It sounds exhausting. Do yo ureally have time
or energy for these repeated roller coaster dramas?

Perhaps the problem is not ALL the other person's doing......
it takes two to tango..

listen to your head, not your heart this time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:13 PM

Been through it more than once..unfortunately...you get into that relationship where you think all is great and it slowly goes sour. The other person is not the character you thought they were and you pay a price by hanging on to what you had...not what you have. The only way forward is the only way you know will be positive for you. You have a choice to make whether you make a weak one or a strong one. I would suggest a strong decision.....where I admit to before having made weak ones myself. Best wishes, Mike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:13 PM

Next time, just say no...

Until then, find some new folks to hang with who are stimulatin' and not part of the ol' crowd which I'm sure the other party knows as well...

Good luck...


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:15 PM

Listen to both your head AND your heart! I also agree that you have to walk out one door to open another.

And Kendall, she's not perfect! She talks funny, and... well, she talks funny. ☺


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:17 PM

Depending on how many years and what size chunk of your life you've got invested in this relationship, you might want to see if the other person would be willing to find out if there is a medical and/or psychiatric reason for the mood swings.

Undiagnosed diabetes, for instance, can cause mood swings, as can bipolar disorder. And hormone imbalance is another possibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST,Just me
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 01:08 PM

Thank you. Lots of good thoughts there. The battle between the heart's longing and the logic of the (almost) inevitable is a difficult one. Picking up on what's been said so far, I did get the other person to see a counsellor for a series of sessions. The other person (I do keep trying to give nothing away, even the gender) came back with what turned out to be a pack of half-truths and just plain lies about what the counsellor had said - all admitted in the end. I know this makes my partner sound like a bad person, but this really isn't the case: just muddled and in need of help which I have tried - and, it seems, failed - to provide. In the end, I think, someone has to admit to themself that they're behaving irratically and strangely - imagining things that didn't happen, creating arguments out of that, trying to get out of a fast moving car, regularly disappearing for hours on end, hiding away and drinking until they're sick all over themselves, etc., etc. - but all that's painful to watch for their lover (me), and painful to hide from those who could be hurt by the knowledge. (Now you can see why this is anonymous.) You're right: life's short. Is it too short to waste time on this relationship? Or too short to give up on someone I fell head over heels in love with?


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 01:36 PM

Do you feel safe?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST,been somewhere near there
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 01:38 PM

Sometimes when someone is drowning, trying to save him or her just drags you under the water too. The best you can do in that case is save yourself from drowning. Walking away from the person is like severing your own arm, but you just have to do it.

You are the one who needs help to get out of a toxic relationship. Stop focusing on his/her problems and start focusing on yourself.

1. See a therapist. Now.
2. Get a LOT of support. Join a support group. Al-Anon is not just for people involved with alcoholics, but for those who are dealing with all sorts of destructive people and working on healing themselves. It's free, there are groups in every city in North America.

Good luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 01:41 PM

You can love people, and yet not allow them to dominate your life. You can love them, but not let them use you as a foil for their own weaknesses. You can love them enough to say "no" when they cross the line. If you don't show them where that line is, how will they ever know?

Sounds to me like you already know what to do. You just need to find the strength to do it, that's all.

I have fallen "head over heels" in love with several people in this life. Not one of them is beside me now. Why? They aren't meant to be. It may have worked for awhile or it may not have, but it definitely wouldn't work now. I accept that.

Part of truly loving is having the guts to let go of the other person. If someone won't let go of you...do you enjoy that? I sure don't. It's like being trapped in a prison, and one not of your own design. Love that will NOT let go is not love at all...it's something else masquerading as love. Some kind of need. Some kind of gnawing hunger. Such things devour people.

All the kind of acting out you are describing, the self-destructive stuff...I've seen that. It's a cry for attention, it's emotional blackmail, it's an attempt to control others, it's deep self-hatred and self-punishment playing itself out, and you cannot help such a person in my opinion, because they are generally unwilling to change. They are dealing with their reality the only way they know how, and they will drag you down in the negative spiral with them.

Man, have I had a bellyfull of THAT! Get yourself free, that's my advice. Love does not imprison the beloved or the self.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 02:04 PM

GUEST,Just me, this is a toxic relationship and you are the one who's getting poisoned.

The notion of a "one and only" or a "soul mate" is a very romantic idea, but in real life, it's a crock. I've been around the block a sufficient number of times and I know that the someone unromantic adage that "there are other fish in the sea" is the accurate one. I've had my share of romances and break-ups (some initiated by me, some by the lady in question) over the years. No, I'm not a cynic. Nor am I a Don Juan. And now I'm very happily married and have been so for twenty-eight years.

You might feel pretty down for awhile, but break it off with this person, make it permanent, and no matter how much he or she begs for forgiveness and wants to get back together, just remember:    you've done it before (how many times?) and it turned out to be the same damned story yet again!   It isn't going to change! Repeat that to yourself the next time this person wants to get back together:   It isn't going to change!

So have some respect for yourself. Break it off, make it permanent, and start living your life. Give yourself some time to recover, spend time by yourself and learn to enjoy it, then play the field for awhile before you start looking around again.

Been there. Done that. Good luck (but don't count on luck—take control of your own life.).

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 02:08 PM

I agree with Don 100%.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST,Just me
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 02:41 PM

I really hesitated before I started this thread, and then hesitiated again before 'Submit Message'. I'm glad I did now. You've all been so kind and supportive, and for that I'm very grateful. I asked for your wisdom, and you gave it. And you're all right: I do know what I need to do - but I'm so afraid of the pain of doing it. But then I ask myself: in the long run, is the pain of finally parting ways better or worse, longer or shorter, than the pain of *not* finally parting ways and carrying on "as normal" in this abnormal relationship? You all knew the answer - and, really, so do I. Thank you all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 02:51 PM

Sounds like you're on the right track. I guess it's sort of like going to the dentist. It's not pleasant, but if you don't, it'll be far less pleasant later on. Best wishes.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:02 PM

DO you feel safe?

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:14 PM

Susan (WYSIWYG) asks an important question, Just me. How is this person laible to react when it finally sinks in that it's over?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:25 PM

Yeah. That's a point to consider indeed. I resorted to moving out of the city I was living in to end one relationship where a person I'd been involved with for a few years was obsessively pursuing me and wouldn't take "no" for an answer. She eventually found someone else, had a child by him, and drove him slowly into the ground. He died, quite young, and I'd say his health broke down mostly because he was in a state of total despair all the time with the relationship and subconsciously really wanted out anyway. It then took her about another 10 years to drink herself to death, at the tender age of about 35.

Nothing I could think of to do would turn her away from her self-destructive patterns...and believe me, I tried! For about 5 years. I sort of wish I could get those 5 years back sometimes, but I learned a lot anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:40 PM

The ultimate problem, which it think is what Susan is getting at, is the possible threat of physical danger (horrible visions of the movie "Play Misty for Me" or "Fatal Attraction"). Just how unstable is this person? If the possibility seems to exist at all, don't take chances. Do whatever is necessary to protect yourself.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:46 PM

I can think of two interesting choices. One would be to dedicate your life to this person's sustenance and just decide that is to be your main careeer, acting as a foil, a heat-sink for their wrath and passion, a bumper when they lose control, and an emotional battery when they need to suck some emotional energy from you.

The other would be to quietly pack everything you own into a car, and drive to the Coast, whichever one suits you, put down roots and start a new life in which h/she does not figure.
The kind of love you've fallen into won't build a strong life; but if it means the world to you, settle for choice #1, with all the bandages and bruises it entails.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST,been there
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:17 PM

But don't stay in a bad situation just through fear of what might happen if you don't. I stood my ground when the other person threatened to kill me if I didn't change my mind. When I called their bluff they left the country - and, as you can tell, I am still alive, and have never regretted my decision.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:27 PM

A relative of mine had a fanatical pest of a suitor who harassed her for months and one day threatened to jump off the Bloor Street Bridge (it's a big one!) if she wouldn't accept his love. She called his bluff and said, "Fine. Go ahead then. Jump." He didn't. ;-) He gave up and went away, muttering about how "heartless" she was. Main thing is, he went away after that.

And if he had jumped...she would still have been better off, in my opinion.

But they very seldom do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST,Just me
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:42 PM

To answer questions, I really don't feel in any danger if I end this relationship. Going to the coast in the middle of the night will not be necessary! The real danger, I think, is that the other person will go and do something stupid but, in the end, that's their choice and not mine (as many of you have indicated). I've always known that and have not, I think, taken on any undue over-responsibility for their actions, but I do think a loving relationship brings a duty of care with it - and that sometimes involves sacrifices. That said, when a person is regularly self-destructing one has to draw the line somewhere (again, as Mudcatters have indicated) and not get sucked down a hole with them. I think this relationship has finally reached the stage where the legacy of [destruction / walking out / disappearing off the face of the planet] is such that reconstruction seems increasingly daunting, if not impossible.

Your responses to this thread have been so caring, intelligent and considerate. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:47 PM

You're most welcome. One thing you can be fairly sure of, and I say this directly from my own experience...they WILL find someone else once you are no longer an option. There's always another prospect out there, impossible as it may seem at the time... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:55 PM

When he threatens you with doing away with himself, that's called a "Hook" and he knows which buttons to push to get what he wants. Take that power away from him and help him to grow up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:36 PM

Some of this behavior does sound bipolar and there is just no way you can fix it or really adapt to it. If he/she gets medication and other help it might be OK..might not.. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Anonny Mouse
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:16 PM

It sounds a bit like you've taken on the role of "rescuer" for the partner, or the relationship...

There's a old saying in the Counseling biz: "The rescuer becomes the victim." Mostly, that's been my experience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:21 PM

The fear of the pain that will occur when you end the relationship is understandable. But understand this--when you need to vomit, fighting the impulse just makes it worse in the end. Barf and get it over with, if you know what I'm trying to say. Fighting the fear just makes it worse, and once the split happens then you can begin to get better and the pain will lessen. Once the decision is made, you will feel different, hopefully better.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: number 6
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:27 PM

I always avoided driving under the Bloor street bridge.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:45 PM

Oh for pity's sake....I hate to dignify this with a response. Just get it over with. Get out. Stop playing games.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 01:15 AM

Some people can have a mixture of qualities - wonderful attributes as well as ugly ones. Sometimes its almost like they're two people, and you stay because of the wonderful one. Be very careful of the people who make you feel sorry for them. They don't take responsibility for the distress they dump around themselves. And those who lash out - leave them.

freda


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 01:33 AM

The Bloor Street Viaduct is a huge bridge in downtown Toronto, crossing the Don River Valley that bisects the city. Many a suicide took place off that bridge over the years. The city finally responded by rigging up a network of strange cables and stuff that make it very difficult to jump off that bridge anymore. Still, it does feel a little odd driving underneath it, I'll admit to that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 01:52 AM

Just me, are you disguising a relationship that actually started on mudcat? Your heartbreaker's M.O. sounds suspiciously like the behavior of someone who has ripped up the lives of more than a few women on the 'cat. If that is the case, you don't have to out yourself, but do PM Joe Offer. Joe is aware of the situation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:35 AM

what does bi-polar mean in this context?

interesting thread.

the dichotony between action and inaction - profound stuff.

I think - it depends where you are in life. I'm 57. And I 've decided not to make any more decisions. Like that Tony Robbins advert - get the edge. Decide what you want, realise you can't have it, and just hang on to as many of the moveables as you can before you peg out.

I'd like to say it works for me, or that it works, but that would be too large a claim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 07:06 AM

Just me - from reading your first post it seems that you had already reached the point where you know that you have to get out of this relationship, in the same way as any addict comes to a realisation that they ARE addicted. Asking for advice here is the equivalent of walking into an Al-Anon meeting IMHO.

The actual severing of the connection is difficult and painful to start with but, trust me, does become easier the further down the path you go. It is probable that you will always have some feelings for your partner for the rest of your life but you are also likely to see, from the distance that time will bring, that the relationship would have become more and more corrosive to you personally.

None of us can take on total responsibility for another adult, it isn't good for either party. the only person that you need to care for is yourself.

Good luck for the future - spend some time looking after yourself, getting to know who YOU are and what YOU want. Once you have taken time out to be just you most other things fall into place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST,Just me
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:21 PM

More answers. I am not disguising a relationship that started on Mudcat (and I do not live in the USA). Also, many of you assume that the person I am talking about is male - this is deliberately not something I have stated one way or the other. As many of you have picked up, I really know in my heart of hearts what I need to do. So why start this thread? I suppose the child in me wants someone to come up with a magic solution, and the adult in me (a MUCH bigger part of me) is scared of making the decision to end a relationship that, at its best, has really enriched my life. Why scared? I am not scared of being alone, but I still keep holding on to the best of this relationship (and there have been *very* good times between the madnesses) and hoping that this will overpower the destructive habits - but really I know it won't. I know, really, all the things that others have said. But most of us need support to make painful steps, I don't want to burden those around me and I suppose this thread was a way of seeking anonymous help, understanding, support. I am so grateful that I have received that, and it HAS given me strength and support. I'm glad, Sorcha, that your emotional life is so much simpler than all that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:33 PM

As with any support group, if you need to reconfirm your resolve thare are many people here who will be happy to listen. If you are a Mudcatter please feel free to PM me any time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:36 PM

Yeah...that's about what went through my mind too when I read Sorcha's post.

You know, judging by my experience, that other person you are talking about could as easily be female as male or vice versa. It's just as common a situation with either gender.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:43 PM

Remember, you can not overcome madness. You can only get trapped into it. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:30 PM

Learn to love yourself. If you don't, you're doomed to having someone else determine your happiness. When you've learned to love yourself you won't put up with destuctive behavior. Actually, you can't love another properly if you don't love yourself first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:58 PM

Right on, GUEST


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:59 PM

The decision is still yours, permission is not necessary; the best the members of this forum can do is tell you that you'll most likely survive and chances are good that you'll thrive following your recovery from the relationship. You won't get over it overnight, but you will get over it.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 10:22 PM

Hi "just me"

There is a great book that can help, called "Women Who Love Too Much
When You Keep Wishing and Hoping He'll Change" by Robin Norwood, although it is written for women it's relevent to anyone in this situation.

It explains the dynamics of co-dependency, how the woman becomes addicted to her own adrenaline in her brain, as a result of "walking on eggshells" to support the alcoholic/ anger addicted partner. She shows how this addiction to an emotional abuser affects every area of the woman's life. And the recovery process is essentially the same for either alcohol addiction or relational addiction.

In the last part of the book the author helps the reader step by step to recover from the relational addiction.

Like the effect of a drug, the person you are with seems to bring a potency and passion to your life that makes everything else fade into the background. You become addicted to the emotional extremes, and life without the person seems empty & colourless, devoid of love, power, fulfilment.

Like a drug this is a complete illusion. You can have a passionate relationship that is non-abusive. But not until you walk away & recover, however long that takes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 04:13 AM

'When you've learned to love yourself you won't put up with destuctive behavior. Actually, you can't love another properly if you don't love yourself first.'

what if you've realised that you're not actually all that keen on yourself....never have been? Try as one might, one's despicable attributes keep coming to the fore in one's mind.

Still no explanantion of bi-polar. Are we talking Jekyll and Hyde, that sort of thing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 05:12 AM

I believe bi-polar disorder is manic depression weelittledrummer


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 06:05 AM

Bipolar (manic depressive illness):
http://www.mind.org.uk/Information/Booklets/Understanding/Understanding+manic+depression.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Help mend my broken heart
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 06:46 AM

thank you


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Mudcat time: 27 May 5:42 AM EDT

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