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From Max: State of the Union Address

Max 11 May 06 - 10:43 PM
bobad 11 May 06 - 10:52 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 May 06 - 10:56 PM
open mike 11 May 06 - 10:56 PM
Bill D 11 May 06 - 11:00 PM
artbrooks 11 May 06 - 11:01 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 May 06 - 11:03 PM
Amos 11 May 06 - 11:08 PM
Max 11 May 06 - 11:10 PM
Ron Davies 11 May 06 - 11:16 PM
The Fooles Troupe 11 May 06 - 11:21 PM
maire-aine 11 May 06 - 11:40 PM
Janie 11 May 06 - 11:41 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 11 May 06 - 11:55 PM
Mark Clark 11 May 06 - 11:57 PM
Ron Davies 12 May 06 - 12:14 AM
JennyO 12 May 06 - 01:45 AM
JennyO 12 May 06 - 01:56 AM
Richard Bridge 12 May 06 - 02:20 AM
MBSLynne 12 May 06 - 02:48 AM
GUEST,micca at work 12 May 06 - 03:45 AM
redsnapper 12 May 06 - 04:01 AM
redsnapper 12 May 06 - 04:09 AM
redsnapper 12 May 06 - 04:13 AM
My guru always said 12 May 06 - 04:24 AM
Mr Happy 12 May 06 - 04:41 AM
redsnapper 12 May 06 - 04:49 AM
John MacKenzie 12 May 06 - 04:56 AM
alanabit 12 May 06 - 05:06 AM
The Shambles 12 May 06 - 05:08 AM
The Shambles 12 May 06 - 05:33 AM
The Shambles 12 May 06 - 05:50 AM
Lin in Kansas 12 May 06 - 05:56 AM
John MacKenzie 12 May 06 - 06:04 AM
Susan of DT 12 May 06 - 06:37 AM
Emma B 12 May 06 - 06:41 AM
MBSLynne 12 May 06 - 06:42 AM
redsnapper 12 May 06 - 07:07 AM
GUEST,Check my IP :)..a Member 12 May 06 - 07:25 AM
katlaughing 12 May 06 - 07:40 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 12 May 06 - 07:41 AM
kendall 12 May 06 - 07:59 AM
The Fooles Troupe 12 May 06 - 08:04 AM
jacqui.c 12 May 06 - 08:12 AM
kendall 12 May 06 - 08:14 AM
sian, west wales 12 May 06 - 08:23 AM
kendall 12 May 06 - 08:36 AM
MMario 12 May 06 - 08:53 AM
Dave Ruch 12 May 06 - 09:00 AM
GUEST,Former member/current occassional drop-in 12 May 06 - 09:13 AM
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Subject: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Max
Date: 11 May 06 - 10:43 PM

I've got to tell you, I'm sick and tired of some of the crap that I've seen lately.

Martin Gibson: you have to pack up and go. Your knowledge and contributions are valuable, and it's a shame that your sociopathy prevents us from hosting you or taking you seriously anymore.

Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell.

Joe: Do I need to separate you two?

Americans: We're losing to the Limey's. I attempt to lure American Folk artists, historians, archivists and enthusiasts to the Mudcat, and am repeatedly rejected because the Mudcat is now viewed as an UK Folk Forum. I don't blame the UK'ers, nor wish them to change anything they are doing, however, I'd like a nice balance so not to alienate either.

Members/Users: We've never had a worse year as far as contributions. I am footing the bill for over 50% of the expenses year-to-date. We have maybe a dozen folks that contribute on any sort of consistent basis. I'd like to refuse any further contribution from these folks, because I feel they carry a burden that they need not if I did my job right. I would like to see a whole new set of folks step up to the plate and get us through a month or more. Remember, it does not need to come out of your pocket. We have an international community of like-people here. Items that one may have and not need or want no longer can find a happy home in our auction. You can host a sing and put a tip bucket out. There are a million things you can think of to support this site and it's purpose.   Nude calendars, recipes, blackmail…

Max: You need to keep this site running smoothly. These downtimes and outages are unacceptable for a real Website. We want reliability and we want you to fix the duplication and miss-ordered threads. Most importantly, you need a better backup system to ensure we won't lose any of this valuable resource.

Jeff: I want the related threads to be in a drop down box. For that matter, I'd like the thread posting summary in a drop down as well.

Everyone: She ain't what she used to be. We'll never get it back. This site should be about our eclectic interest in old-time traditional music from all over the world. Our local communities don't have a lot to offer us as far as merchandise and community, so we go to the Mudcat. We should welcome the newbies. We should covet the information we have now and strive to collect more. We should use this place to meet each other, organize and/or promote events. Please, don't forget the good of such a place.

To those of you who aren't around so much anymore: Give us another shot, please.


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: bobad
Date: 11 May 06 - 10:52 PM

My cheque is in the mail.


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 May 06 - 10:56 PM

"I am footing the bill for over 50% of the expenses year-to-date."
Maybe it's time for some adds... Or maybe to work in partnership with other Folk oriented music sites like, I donno, folkalley or others of that ilk? (Just thinking out-loud here....)

"She ain't what she used to be."
Things never are....

"We'll never get it back."
Looking forward always beats looking back

"This site should be about our eclectic interest in old-time traditional music from all over the world."
There is an easy way to make it so.... Only allow on-topic posts.... If someone else wants to host an Off-Topic, sort of sister-board to Mudcat, let them.... This way you wouldn't have to 'sweat the bullflop' at all


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: open mike
Date: 11 May 06 - 10:56 PM

here, here.

unfortunatley those who are no longer around will not see this.

agreed we all need to help support this site if we use, enjoy and
depend on it.

buy a t-shirt, or a patch, or participate in the auction.
the set of mudcat c.d's are great....get some!

do we need to invent a new money making plan--there have been
recipe books, and many other projects.

thanks for your efforts, and your payments, Max.

Remind us how to pay pal you.

I subscribe to 3 music magazines...
Sing Out, Dirty Linen and No Depression
They all cost about $20-25 a year, and
only come out every month or two. This
resource is available every day, and is
an interactive way to make contact with
many like-minded folks. the networking
available here is priceless. I am willing
to pay pal $20 for the opportunity to
access this site. Will any one else
join me?

Laurel


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Bill D
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:00 PM

*absorbing and thinking*


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:01 PM

My PayPal contribution is on the way.


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:03 PM

Give a man a fish.....


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Amos
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:08 PM

Another fundraiser is about due, eh? There's lots of stuff in the AUction! And if you don't have your set of Mudcat CDs you could email Dick and get them in time for Independence Day or a summer birthday!

Thanks of speaking out, Max. An envelope is on its way -- a small amount for now, more later.

A


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Max
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:10 PM

Our paypal account is: max@mudcat.org and is the preferred payment type for us. If you have hesitance to contribute through paypal.com, I certainly understand. You may also send checks or money orders to:

The Mudcat Cafe
PO Box 3006
West Chester, PA 19381

or

Camsco Music
145 Hickory Corner Rd.
East Windsor, NJ 08520

or

our UK and Australian friends who will hopefully post their information to this thread soon.

Non-US residents should not send foreign currency/checks/money orders to me. Bank fees make it a very poor method of contribution. Use paypal, work with our representatives in your country or convert you money before sending it.


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:16 PM

Is there any way to contribute by Visa?


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:21 PM

Max:
"I've got to tell you, I'm sick and tired of some of the crap that I've seen lately. "

Thank you Max, you are not alone. Many people have expressed a similar thought.

If there is any way you can use my technical expertise, just ask, I won't keep annoying you with endless offers. Financially, I am little able to do much more than I have. Because of the varying exchange rate, it also hits me much harder than US citizens at times.

When I joined this place, there was a large imbalance of UK over US stuff, which appealed to me, and is why I hung around, but I support any efforts to restore the balance. I like music of all types.

There have been many endless streams of 'suggestions' about 'improving' this place, I just hope you can eventually make the place more stable - in many senses of the word!

As I have said, I came here for the craic, not the crackpots!

And thank you very much for 'speaking from Mount Olympus'!

Robin


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: maire-aine
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:40 PM

Good evening, Max. Thanks for your hard work and I support your plans. I, for one, would like to see more US content, particularly around the Great Lakes area and the Midwest.

Although I sometimes find the political threads interesting, they seem to generate more heat than light lately. I miss the times when I could participate in an exchange of ideas with other folks who share my interests.

I have sent along a few bucks now and then, so I don't feel like I'm taking advantage of anybody.

Maybe we can return to the comfortable place we were in a few years ago. I hope so.

Maryanne


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Janie
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:41 PM

What Bill said.

Janie


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:55 PM

THANK YOU MAX !

The opportunity to participate in this community has been a true gift from your soul to the international world. May you find klein-geld for one of the finest OPEN net-forums of the past decade.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

I doubt, but hope, a come-a-round, to port may still be possible....the rocky shoals beckon and they are sharp and deep, with eddies that will cast to multiple shoals.

DT/MC will not forever be lost, however, ((some true AMERIAN folk contributors I chased away - and like the Mariner's Albatrose - they way as a dedman upon my shoulders)) I NEVER anticipated the British Invasion.

More would be the mail tonight, but I forgotfully sold the mattress.


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:57 PM

I just happened by, refreshed an old thread, then saw this thread. I'm one who used to try to contribute here and enjoyed both shared interests and exposure to new things. I think I'm pretty thick skinned but, eventually, I too became weary of the insults and shallow attempts to dominate the discourse without the prerequisite background.

I think some of the information stored on Mudcat servers is a national treasure and should be preserved for all to share and research. Of course there is also a great deal of verbiage with no value whatever.

I do think that some of the posters here should establish their own calendar Websites to advertise events of local or regional interest. To use Mudcat as a communication resource for small regional interest groups seems selfish and rude to me. Mudcat has a links page and links to regional calendar sites can be placed there.

People with supreme confidence in the value of their own opinions can publish them free without fear of contradiction at Blogger.com. No doubt their readership will quickly outstrip the meager traffic here.

There are some things that should continue to be supported in the world even if I have no immediate personal association with them. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is one example. The Mudcat Cafe (with The Digital Tradion database) is another.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 May 06 - 12:14 AM

In persuading some who have left to come back, a big selling point may well be that the named sociopath--who drove a lot of people away--is gone--for good this time.

I've already PM'd Don Firth.

Anybody else who should be notified?


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: JennyO
Date: 12 May 06 - 01:45 AM

This thread is like a breath of fresh air, and gives me hope for the future of Mudcat.

Being in Australia, and not having much cash to throw around, I have not contributed in that way. I don't use Paypal and am not keen to. If there was somebody in Oz that does use Paypal and is willing to be a representative, I'd be happy to try and raise some money and give it to them to pass on. Anybody?

Mark Clark, I have to disagree with one of the things you said:

To use Mudcat as a communication resource for small regional interest groups seems selfish and rude to me.

I read with interest plenty of threads about things that are happening in other parts of the world. Most of it is small and regional, with rare exceptions like the Getaway, but I find it interesting - it expands my horizons. I was under the impression that Max was encouraging us to do this more than we have been actually:

Max: We should use this place to meet each other, organize and/or promote events.

I advertise my folk club through various sources locally, but have rarely posted on that subject here because there are only a handful of Sydney 'catters - except for instance when El Greko and Cloudstreet were at North By Northwest Folk Club in April. I was just starting to feel encouraged to do it more when I read what you said. Should I feel selfish and rude for entertaining the idea? I don't think so.

Jenny


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: JennyO
Date: 12 May 06 - 01:56 AM

BTW, Being somewhat technologically challenged, I wouldn't know how to set up a regional calendar website.

However, this site JAM has most of the information about folk doings in NSW Australia, and is a great resource for us locals. I'd be happy to have a link to it put somewhere.

You might notice if you look in the next day or two, that a story about a performer at my folk club, Chloe Hall, is currently the Top Story there. I hope I wasn't being too rude mentioning that ;-)

Jenny


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 May 06 - 02:20 AM

Some of the informational stuff (eg about song origins, or different forms of words) is truly wonderful and one of the great things is the ability to get information from all of the main English language nations, which sometimes can be of great help. The Digitrad is a resource beyond price.   

I do however think that another strength is the ability to notify a large possibly like-minded group of events: you never know who might be passing and be able to drop in. Certainly when my wife Jacqui died I had people come both to her wake and the barbecue deathiversary who I would not have been able to inform without mudcat, and who would have had no likelihood of searching the internet for a website of announcement, and I was very happy to be able to make a contribution out of the proceeds of her life insurance. Likewise I would be unaware of Wheaton Aston this weekend, which I happen to be passing, well away from my home, without the Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: MBSLynne
Date: 12 May 06 - 02:48 AM

One of the really good things about Mudcat is the threads on events that you may not otherwise hear about and also the chance to tell people about your own. Our Quarter session, which has been running so well for a year and a half now, was started due to conversation with someone I met on Mudcat and who is now a friend and who brought a whole car full of Catters to our first session. We've been supported by Catters from all over the country. All this because of a thread on Mudcat. Like JennyO, I wouldn't be able to do anything technological to advertise the event so Mudcat is a wonderful resource.

Thanks Max, for starting this thread, and for everything. Hearing from you makes it a little easier to put up with some of the crap.

I'm sad about the number of obnoxious people on here who seem to come in just to stir trouble, but on the other hand, I've met so many people I now consider friends since I've been here that it's all worth it just for that. And that does include the Americans and Aussies too.

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: GUEST,micca at work
Date: 12 May 06 - 03:45 AM

First and most important, John Routledge and I , as Officers of the "Friends of Mudcat" (an organization founded to channel contributions from the UK to Mudcat central regularly in a manner not to incurr excessive Bank Charges) are currently discussing ways of reviving and re-publicising the activities of "FoM" and holding elections of Officers.
Secondly, I support what Max says, but would add that what may appear to be superficially "of Local interest" only is often Very Useful if one is travelling to other parts of ones own country and also if travelling abroad, the "Local" thread gives names of contacts in an area, for instance, I know who to contact if I can raise the money to visit Sydney in Oz, Partly through posts, partly through Secret Santas, and partly through being contacted and hosting visiting Australians!!! all Thanks to Mudcat,
Similarly my "annual" visits to the Getaway, The trips would be IMPOSSIBLE without Mudcat, I would have never been to either the Getaway or to the Press Room in Portsmouth NH (which I learned about from Mudcat, local news stuff) and I would have missed out on meeting and making friends with a wide range of interesting people.
It is one of the beauties of the Internet that I think Mudcat epitomises, it is both International and local and Can and Should be,
because you never know when YOU might end up in Manchester!! (either NH or Lancs,) and be looking for an evening of Folk Music.
Many thanks Max, you are an Hero and much appreciated by Your Friend Micca


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: redsnapper
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:01 AM

Dear Max,

Paypal contribution sent!

Thanks for the message and thanks for the site. Long may it continue!

redsnapper (long-time member with a new name)


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: redsnapper
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:09 AM

P.S. I also regret the use of the Mudcat repeatedly by certain individuals to advertise purely local events. I am also on the East side of the pond where the main offenders are.

I also organise folk and blues events on a weekly basis but would never have the gall or cheek to use a world-wide forum to advertise them. I use my own resources and my own money for that.

redsnapper


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: redsnapper
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:13 AM

P.P.S. Taking what Micca said... isn't there a special "What's On?" thread for that kind of thing? Maybe that part of the forum could be developed a little more?

RS


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: My guru always said
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:24 AM

All of what's been said & much more. I'm not able to verbalise my thoughts just now but I'm so glad for what's been said in this thread. Those of us who use (rather than abuse) the MudCat have have been able to expand our lives and our music beyond my dreaming and this has been priceless!

In my small way I've tried to raise awareness and funds in the UK and shall continue to do so though I have little to give myself. Micca you know where I am, my assistance is available for FoM - you want references?


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:41 AM

I echo & endorse the sentiments of Micca, Richard Bridge, gargoyle, Jenny O, & MBS Lynne, on the merits of Mudcat.

If not for this fantastic resource, I'd never have met so many kindred spirits all around the world - later to meet some in the flesh - both of 'Limeys' and visiting folk from the antipodes & the Americas.

Also I don't regard myself or any other catters in any location as being 'offenders' if local events are mentioned.

Part of the attraction of MC for me [& looks like many others] is the wholesome exchange of both local & international about folking about all over the place!!

Many thanks Max!


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: redsnapper
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:49 AM

But if everybody who could use it for local events did so in that way Mr Happy, we'd simply have thousands of threads of local rather than general interest. I don't think that's what the 'Cat was conceived for. I would, however, happily endorse an expansion of the "What's On? - Who's performing where?" permathread for such use rather than the main threads.

RS


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:56 AM

Thanks Max, I knew you would be thinking along those lines, and I'm glad to have confirmation.
I too will try and send you some bucks, I know it's been too long since my last payment.
As has been said, the UK FoM has been dormant, but we have had a little local difficulty regarding an office bearer being over the horizon recently. I have spoken to Micca and John Routledge about this, and things are in hand, anything I can do to help Micca?
I am home all day most days, so have time on my hands, so I am available to help as required.
Let's go back to being friends and if disagreeing do so as politely as possible, it isn't necessary to descend to the gutter to find words to express your opposing views.
Yes I know certain posters will say, "Tough that's life Giok, get real" I know that's life but it doesn't have to pervade every corner of it does it?
Giok


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: alanabit
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:06 AM

I just want to mirror the sentiments of most of the other posters. I am very grateful for Mudcat and I wish I could contribute more. As my financial situation - which would currently bring tears to a glass eye - improves, I certainly will.
The comment about Mudcat being seen as a UK forum is something you could not have forseen in the early days Max. I take no offence at your comment, indeed, I read it more as, "We would welcome more Americans". That is the beauty of it though. People are welcome from everywhere. The UK Catters have the advantage of living within relatively short distances of each other. Inevitably, the word spreads faster there. If, say Max in California, Deckman in Washington, Don Meixner in New York and Jed Marum in Texas want to meet up for a lunch time pint and sing, you ain't going to get there on the number nine bus!
I have found some of the rudeness and spite tiresome at times, but I have been able to spot trouble coming and simply move on to other threads. The good has far outweighed the bad in my experience and I am deeply grateful to many in this community for their kindness, wisdom and generosity. My life has been much richer for it. I hope the same ultimately proves to be true for you Max.


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:08 AM

Dear Max

Nice to see that you have not been bound and gagged in the cellar.

Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell.

Perhaps you could understand - I do care and that partly the reason why I have pressed the point is to obtain (or provoke) this public statement from the organ grinder rather than the monkey? An earler public statement of intent from you would have prevented me from pressing the point to the extent that I have recently felt I had to.

If you can provide (publcly or privately) the answers to the follow few questions - I can then decide if I wish to continue posting here - unless you are banning me after all these years?

It is difficult to see how our heads can be banged together - if you are now publicly saying that one of should go ( i.e' me). As I am the one who likes your terms and conditions and does not need to impose changes to shape our form to my requirements.

For I admit I am guilty of posting and encouraging others to post and this would appear to be now out-of- step with the currently encouraged example of finding ways to inihibit and complain about other posters. The only 'complaints' that are now thought a problem are any posts questioning any of our moderator's conduct - any other complaints would appear to actively encouraged - especally if they are in agreement with the personal views and complaints of the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team.   

I have not made a habit of ever posting abusive personal attacks on any fellow poster nor of responding in kind to the many I am encouraged to be subjected to and not protected from. Whatever the provocation. I post what I mean and I mean what I post. Am I the kind of poster that should now 'bid farewell' because other posters are encouraged to try and find way to prevent me (and other posters) from contributing?

The intentionally destructive posters - be they guest or members are not a problem and can quite easily be dealt with - but this cannot be done if (some of) those you select to protect us from abusive personal attacks set the example of indulging in this and of responding in kind.

Perhaps setting the example that encourages this combat on our forum will now end?   

I consider that far from being anti-Mucat, anti anything - or that I have ever contributed anything that could be described as anti-Mudcat posts - that I have openly been the longest supporter of your pubicly stated aims for our forum.

For this I (and others) have been subjected to what is clearly personally motivated censorship and special treatment from those whose stated aims for our forum is now to change the free invitation to shape our forum you have always extended to the public.

Can you confirm if the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team's latest proposal to restrict the BS posting to members only and to 'review' all the Guest posting on the Music section - is going to be finally accepted by you or not.

And if this not going to happen (in the near future) - is our forum going to continue to be divided by and subject to the current imposed and personally motivated censorship actions that the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has recently and publicy admitted have failed to impose the required 'peace'?      

Or is there now going to be a change to this approach? An end to anonymous editing button perhaps?


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:33 AM

Censorship and Attitude rolled into one

Is closing threads censorship?

Mudcat Help&Trouble Forum

Do you need to be censored


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:50 AM

You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site.
Max - Perhaps you can re-state for all of us what the real point of the site is?

Whatever the point of the site - I have always been led to believe that the real point of the bit of your site that you have provided as a public discussion forum was to encourage the public to post to it.

Perhaps you would agree that our forum now seems to have changed to where the point appears to be to encourage other posters to intentionally find way to judge the worth of, to complain about, restrict and generally try to inhibit others from posting?


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:56 AM

Oh for God's sake, Shambles! Get a grip, will you?

Max, thanks for the much-needed message. And many, many thanks to you and to Dick and Susan for all the wonderful songs I've learned over the last few years--you've broadened MY horizons, for sure. I will admit to not hanging around the 'Cat nearly as much lately--I have gotten seriously fed-up with all the whining and the political bullshit, and haven't felt the need or desire to attempt to contribute anything to those many threads. I tend to browse the info in the Music threads and occasionally try to find a tune for MMario and the Great Tune Hunt.

Frankly, I miss the fun folks used to have here--I'd forgotten how wild some of the Tavern threads could get, and the flights of fancy indulged in were priceless--don't see much of that anymore. Everyone seems to be much too busy complaining, whining, or just being cantankerous! Never thought I would agree with anything Gargoyle said, but

"The opportunity to participate in this community has been a true gift from your soul to the international world. May you find klein-geld for one of the finest OPEN net-forums of the past decade."

pretty well sums it up for me, too. (Thanks, Garg.)

Lin


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:04 AM

Well done Roger for proving Max's point.
G


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Susan of DT
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:37 AM

Max - You will be getting all my auction money and I will throw in more.

Some of the rest of you must have LPs that you would rather send to new homes. LP mailers are still available, which was my biggest issue on doing this, and LPs are legal for inexpensive media rates on US postage.


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Emma B
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:41 AM

Well I already have my raffle prize ready for the Yorks Gathering...
If anyone is co-ordinating the UK contributions - include me in


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: MBSLynne
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:42 AM

Not very happy at Red snapper's comment about "Gall and Cheek". I don't feel I'm being cheeky or having gall when I post my thread about our sessions. I bet I've never heard of any of your sessions due to them not being publicised at all on Mudcat. P'raps I might enjoy them if I knew they were there. At our first session we not only had a car load from Hull, we also had Mudcatters from the US and Shanghai who happened to be visiting the UK and new about the session due to the thread. It wasn't particularly local to where they were going, but they came anyway.

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: redsnapper
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:07 AM

My point Lynne is that if everybody did that on a regular basis for every single local event (I would exclude "start-up" club threads and news about Mudcat Gatherings from my comments as that seems fair and proper as opposed to a "weekly calendar" for a very local event), the forum would be quickly inundated given the number of folk clubs, performers and gigs there are in the UK and in dozens of other other countries. And why should they not, since the precedent is already set? I've seen this abused over the years by the same few individuals (not you I hasten to add) and I don't think that's really on for a world-wide site. Surely this is why individual clubs have their own websites and local folk networks?

As I mentioned, I'd be happy to see the "What's on?" permathread further developed for this use rather than the general threads which are intended mainly for wide-ranging musical discussion (which used to be the case six or seven years ago when I first joined up).

This is, however, just my personal opinion and I don't run the site! Others will undoubtedly disagree with what I have said.

Love and best wishes,

redsnapper


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: GUEST,Check my IP :)..a Member
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:25 AM

...who is doing what Bill D says.

Thanks for posting Max
I think I agree with most of what you say but I am having some trouble with your remark to Joe Offer.
Joe and the Clones have had a raw deal here lately and Joe Offer has been the target of one of the Troublemakers you have mentioned for a long time now.

So what I am thinking is that rather than publicly scolding this Man for doing all he could---- (which by the way does not send a very positive message to the other people who also give their time for free to help run this great place behind the scenes)---- with compulsive and vile posters I was hoping that, if you ever posted again, you would be publicly Thanking Joe Offer and the others that work so hard to keep your vision alive.

Anyways that is one thing that I have formed an opinion on (even before you started your Thread last night) and I also wanted to mention it before another Member takes over this Thread. This is "The Thread" this Member has been waiting for...sad eh? (a lot of valubale ammunition in your post Max for copy and paste purposes)

Thank again Max. I was directed here when I was in search of a resource to learn about American Traditional Music which, because of the Mudcat, has become something that I am learning more and more about and loving more and more by the Day, just not daily on the Mudcat anymore.
Being a Non American Musican now living in America the Mudcat was like striking gold.

I don't have much, but you can have some of the little I have at the moment, as the DT is too valuable a resource and that is not something I have to process in order to arrive at decision about helping the Mudcat financially..

For the record. Thanks to ALL the people that have made the Mudcat available to me. I can only speak for myself.

Just hope your message isn't too little too late.
Sincerly.


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:40 AM

Good to finally hear from you, Max. Thanks for writing. I have to say I, too, was disappointed you didn't say anything about the Clones and also show more support for Joe and Jeff.

I think it has been a blast to have the UKers and that, as someone else pointed out, with our great distances in North America, it's a bit more difficult for any of us to get together.

More stuff for the auction as soon as we get our house stuff moved around and settled.

luvyakat


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:41 AM

Max - thanks for providing a great site.

As another of your Limey's I'd just like to say that my interest isn't only in the UK side of things. Although my interest these days is in British traditional song, when I started out in the 60s it was American singer/songwriters and American bluesmen that provided half the things I was singing. Although my days as a Tees Delta bluesman a far behind me now (US readers: the Tees is the river my hometown of Middlesbrough is on) I still read threads on early blues and I follow threads on American traditional songs, and post to both when I have anything useful to add. They have inspired me to listen to some new people and to go back and relisten to some of the ones I already knew.

Without Mudcat I might never have stumbled on American Memory or the Levy collection (and dozens of other sites I have bookmarked either because they were mentioned here or because me searching for something related to Mudcat led me to them). I almost never read BS threads (miserable bugger I am, no doubt) but I do post tunes (not everyone can) and I do try and answer song requests, whatever type they are (I am good with search engines, not everybody is. Trying to find information on songs had taken me to some interesting sites and taught me some useful things). I try to post only factual things - once you start posting opinions you're asking for a fight; give a man faith and you almost always give him blinkers. (And important issue though the PEL is in the UK, by the 2000th thread I admit I gave up on it!)

As albanit said above the UK is relatively small and the UK catters tend to meet up a lot at the same festivals; they know each other in the real world too. So it's not surprising they gather here. I've met only a few of the Americans (Joe Offer on a visit several years ago, Dick and Susan briefly, Alaska Mike and Twmmie stayed with us last year) but there are plenty I'd like to meet for various reasons, just from seeing their posts here (off the top of my head - MMario, Sorcha (missed her on her visit), katlaughing, Gargoyle who posts infuriating things, then occasionally catches you out with some deeply nice post about someone and plenty more if I was to look at a few threads) , and I intend to get over to the Getaway one year and make good on that. (There are also some of the other non-UK too - several of the Australians, Roberto, Wolfgang, Masato I'd like to meet too. And some still in the UK too - I've never met Malcolm Douglas yet, and he doesn't even live that far away).

Once again thanks for the site. I have no complaints about it (when someone's giving you a free site that provides such pleasure, how can you complain) or the people who moderate it (the few interventions I've seen, seem to be fair. I always exercise my own intervention - if I don't like a thread I just don't bother with it).

A paypal payment will be on the way.

Best wishes (from my longest ever, non song-related post!)

Mick


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: kendall
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:59 AM

Most of my contributions have been in the form of CDs, books, and the latest was the big poster from the gig with Utah Phillips. I still can't get over what that brought for the Mudcat!

Now, Jacqui discovered another copy of my book, STORIES TOLD IN THE KITCHEN, and that is going on the auction along with a tape of BEGINNERS LUCK.

In the near future, we plan to offer DVDs of that performance with Utah Phillips. It is a field recording and not perfect, but who is?


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:04 AM

Lists for SE Queensland Australia


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:12 AM

Max - I told you at the Getaway that the Mudcat has literally changed my life, definitely for the better.

I quite often visit the UK and am grateful for the threads on local sessions, giving me the opportunity to visit different folk groups around the country. Redsnapper - where are you? I wopuld love to get to visit sometime when I'm over.

I must admit to being more of a lurker in the music session as I do not feel that I have sufficient knowledge of folk music to really make much of a contribution but I have learned a lot from the vast store of knowledge of those who do contribute.

In general I love the BS section. I can catch up with friends, laugh at the wit of some and even lock horns with others. I now have many friends on three continents, something that would not have been possible without this site.

At the risk of inviting opprobrium from certain quarters I would agree with Max about the two members he has suggested should leave the forum. Whilst both make valuable contributions to the music threads they both make the forum a more unpleasant place to visit. If they are unable to change they should be the ones to leave - the fact that their attitudes drive good people away is not, IMHO, acceptable. It is frustrating to find, again and again, that either of these posters are using the site for their own very selfish purposes, to the detriment of the majority of the membership.

However, whatever happens, Kendall and I will do what we can, within our means, to financially support the Mudcat. I would be happy to pay an annual subscription fee if it meant that this site kept going. We will put items on the auction and I will be talking to the other members of our song circle about possibly taking ua collection when we meet.

Long live the 'Cat!


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: kendall
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:14 AM

Max for King!


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: sian, west wales
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:23 AM

I too would like to say thank you to Max. And to Joe, and to Joe Clones.

Re: argy-bargy on the threads, recently I've been thinking I must be a bit dim: people keep referring to bad blood in some threads ... and I've been completely unaware of it! But then, I really do think that, for the most part, you can tell from the thread title if it's going to be informative (BS or otherwise) and it's up to us not to participate. At all.

Micca, thanks for mentioning FoM. I contribute, and I've been wondering what the situation is. Please keep me informed. I've never seen the need for members-only areas here (particularly if you "Don't feed the Trolls") but I might make an exception for finances. It might be useful to have a 'space' where we could check on how WE contributors are doing. I have no interest in the Expenditure side of things though. If the Cat is up and running and providing the service, I will happily assume that all is well and enough said.

Re: Limeys v Americans (understanding that Limeys in this instance means Brits, and perhaps Aussies? and Americans includes Canadians) I'm here for the invaluable info I've had from both sides of the pond. I tend to respond atlength to things involving Welsh music, but I've often found that N Americans are very interested in this for heritage reasons. And I've had really useful info from the western side of the pond when I've tried to trace bits of the Welsh tradition 'over there'. And the Mudcat Libary thread was a Great Idea! (Although it ended up costing me money! Still is, for that matter.) Then too, it's great to be able to keep up with things happening in Canada, 'my home and native land'.

Mudcat is a tremendous resource. Long may she continue.

siân,west wales


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: kendall
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:36 AM

Does anyone not know why the English are called "Limeys" ?

It was the English navy that discovered a cure for scurvy. Vitamin C. as found in lemons and Limes(Just another thing that they get no credit for. I see that title as a compliment.
When I call my wife, Jacqui, a Limey, she just smiles because she know is origin of the term.


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: MMario
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:53 AM

As I mentioned, I'd be happy to see the "What's on?" permathread further developed for this use rather than the general threads which are intended mainly for wide-ranging musical discussion (which used to be the case six or seven years ago when I first joined up).

Max asked me a while back to take on the support and maintainence of this thread. I've been slacking; I will admit. I will try to correct the situation soon.


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 12 May 06 - 09:00 AM

My paypal contribution has been sent. Thanks for all the great work that goes into the site!


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Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: GUEST,Former member/current occassional drop-in
Date: 12 May 06 - 09:13 AM

While some will feel vindicated and others admonished by Max's message, I believe it demonstrates that even Max has concerns with the way the forum has changed.

And I think his post may well be too little, too late for the forum. It certainly is for me. Why?

Number one reason: I said when the power was given to Joe and the clones to act as forum moderators, that it wouldn't take long before they were abusing their power. I was right, they did, and I and others headed for the door.

The problem? They allowed sociopathic posting by people like Martin Gibson and Peace to remain, and started attacking people like Shambles, who have NEVER retaliated or sought petty revenge.

The current forum moderators are very vengeful people, and vengeful people do not make good forum moderators. Nor do people who are emotionally involved in the day to day social network of the forum.

At the same time the forum was rapidly going downhill by being made safe for the Martin Gibsons of the Mudcat world, and the censorship of anyone or any post Joe and the clones didn't like getting deleted with ever increasing fervor and regularity, the forum reliability issues are really what drove me away for good.

It was such a pain in the ass to try and get into the forum for so long, and then you would get in and see what a shit hole it had become, it just wasn't worth the effort, especially because I originally started coming here for bluegrass and old time music. Which is nowhere to be found now--Mudcat is an English traditional music forum, not even "British".

And as to contributions? Well, why would anyone contribute to continue with this crap?

There once was a great resource online called Mudcat. But I wouldn't say there is much value to what is here anymore. Not even the Digital Tradition, because nothing has been done to upgrade it. When you compare DT to other excellent music websites, it doesn't come close to the quality you see elsewhere online.

So, like I said, I think this new demand for money (with no accountability, as always, which irks me too) is too little, too late. We not only haven't seen any improvements to the DT or forum in terms of reliability or upgrades. The "forum moderators" are a pain in the ass with their trigger happy delete buttons, and are doing much more harm than good to the social fabric here. The shit flinging is disgusting.

And I should send my money anyway because...??? Because it means more of the same? I don't think so. There are better online music causes to contribute to, where my money will be used more respectfully, and towards making actual improvements.

IMO, Mudcat has had it's natural life. If it dies, it dies. Everything does. Maybe Mudcat's time is up. It was for me over 3 years ago.


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