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BS: BNP and folk music

Divis Sweeney 08 May 06 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,Tammy 08 May 06 - 02:45 PM
Azizi 08 May 06 - 10:26 AM
melodeonboy 08 May 06 - 08:32 AM
GUEST,redhorse at work 08 May 06 - 08:27 AM
GUEST,Le Citron Vert 08 May 06 - 07:47 AM
GUEST 08 May 06 - 07:39 AM
Folk Form # 1 08 May 06 - 05:18 AM
Peace 07 May 06 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,Rev I Paisley 07 May 06 - 02:57 PM
mandotim 07 May 06 - 02:51 PM
GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh 07 May 06 - 02:30 PM
Geoff Wallis 07 May 06 - 01:50 PM
Richard Bridge 07 May 06 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh 07 May 06 - 01:25 PM
greg stephens 07 May 06 - 12:46 PM
GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh 07 May 06 - 12:28 PM
GUEST,Tammy 07 May 06 - 10:49 AM
melodeonboy 07 May 06 - 08:06 AM
Richard Bridge 07 May 06 - 06:37 AM
greg stephens 07 May 06 - 06:30 AM
greg stephens 07 May 06 - 06:20 AM
GUEST,Tammy 07 May 06 - 05:13 AM
Richard Bridge 07 May 06 - 03:56 AM
GUEST,DG 06 May 06 - 09:19 PM
Peace 06 May 06 - 09:09 PM
GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh 06 May 06 - 08:55 PM
Peace 06 May 06 - 08:44 PM
Peace 06 May 06 - 08:19 PM
Peace 06 May 06 - 08:14 PM
GUEST 06 May 06 - 08:13 PM
GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh 06 May 06 - 08:04 PM
Peace 06 May 06 - 07:58 PM
Peace 06 May 06 - 07:49 PM
Peace 06 May 06 - 07:40 PM
GUEST,DG 06 May 06 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,wordy 06 May 06 - 12:52 PM
GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh 06 May 06 - 12:35 PM
GUEST,wordy 06 May 06 - 12:35 PM
GUEST,DB 06 May 06 - 12:33 PM
GUEST 06 May 06 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,DG 06 May 06 - 11:55 AM
GUEST,albert 06 May 06 - 11:09 AM
GUEST,ifor 06 May 06 - 11:01 AM
Mr Fox 06 May 06 - 10:42 AM
GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh 06 May 06 - 09:48 AM
greg stephens 06 May 06 - 07:28 AM
GUEST 06 May 06 - 07:15 AM
greg stephens 06 May 06 - 06:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 May 06 - 06:08 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 08 May 06 - 04:21 PM

Music belongs to no one. Music is international and it's up to the individual what they wish to listen to. As to the origins of traditional folk music, does it really matter as long as you enjoy it ? For centuries The English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish have produced some great music. I have listened to local folk music in a lot of European countries and admired their skills and passion, didn't always understand it ! but enjoyed it.
Glad to Sense Prevail on this thread, don't provide the oxygen. A better man walks away.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Tammy
Date: 08 May 06 - 02:45 PM

What is melodeonboy on about? 'British' in any sense means British and not English although it includes the English. Is the word different in a political sense? Does it mean English when one wants it to mean that and something else when one doesn't?


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Azizi
Date: 08 May 06 - 10:26 AM

Does GUEST 08 May 06 - 07:39 AM really believe that "Most black people hate music by white people?"

How ridiculous!!! And what does "music by white people" mean?
For instance, does that Guest include those hit R&B songs written by White people?

Never mind. I agree with GUEST,Le Citron Vert that it isn't worth the effort to give Guest 08 May 06 - 07:39 AM examples from R&B, jazz, religious music, hip-hop, and other musical genres of how wrong he or she is.

-Sista Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: melodeonboy
Date: 08 May 06 - 08:32 AM

Yes, Guest,Tammy, you do have to use your common sense when trying to understand what a word means when it is used in a political context, rather than taking it at face value. Otherwise, you might end up thinking, for example, that the old "Popular and Democratic Republic of Algeria" was indeed popular and democratic; that the DDR (Deutsche Demokratische Republik) was indeed democratic; or that Saddam Hussein's Baath Party actually believed in "Wahda, Huria wa Ishtirakia" (Unity, Freedom and Socialism).

I would have thought that any understanding of history or politics would be based on this premise.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,redhorse at work
Date: 08 May 06 - 08:27 AM

on 23 April Gillian said "...as a member of the Ulster Democratic Party...." on 6 May "I am a member of the D.U.P.". To be convincing, you need to stick to your cover story. A liar, and not even a competent one.

nick


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Le Citron Vert
Date: 08 May 06 - 07:47 AM

"Most black people hate music by white people - fact."

What??!?!?!

I'm not even going to give you an example of how wrong you are, it's not worth the effort.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 06 - 07:39 AM

Penguins Egg is right on the ball. I find that my black friends are very enthusiastic to get me to listen to reggae, which I do and love! - but they have no time for any other stuff. I was playing Hendrix once when my mate noticed a picture of Hendrix on the album cover and said "yes this I like!"

Most black people hate music by white people - fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 08 May 06 - 05:18 AM

I'll leave the Gillian debate to other people; but folk music has a fairly left wing position anyway, let's face it. I have nothing against that; but what I do dislike is the idea of booking "a few more acts from black and minority ethnic groups. The black Zimbabwean singers that live in Stoke, for example." Why? It is deeply patronizing to both the performers and the audiance. I go to folk clubs to listen to folk music, which, it is generally understood, means folk music from England, Scotland, Ireland and North America. There is a connection between the music that appeals to me. There is no connection between western folk music and African music. I do not like African music, or any other typy of so called "World " music, which is, anyway, a term invented by middle class journalists and broadcasters. Do people in Africa listen to Martin Carthy or Woody Guthrie? I doubt it, and no reason why they should. This is not me being narrow minded. This is me choosing what sort of music I choose to listen to and not letting someone else decide for me. Folk music for folk clubs, is what I say, regardless of the ethnic origin of the artis involved.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 06 - 03:08 PM

"I was asked by a friend to read remarks on this site regarding Margaret Thatcher."

I presume you read them. Please go away now.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Rev I Paisley
Date: 07 May 06 - 02:57 PM

Hi ya Gillian you old slapper.

You are wasting your time here, these are a bunch of muslim & irish sympathisers.

How about a blow job for old times?


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: mandotim
Date: 07 May 06 - 02:51 PM

Uncalled for by you. But true, most certainly. I've heard one of his 'heart rendering' (sic; did you mean melted down for fat, or covered in pebbledash and plaster?) albums, and it made me cringe. As for bigotry, how many Roman Catholic members does the DUP have at present? In percentage terms will do. I bet you know, don't you? The fact that the DUP knows the religion of all its members tells you something I guess.
Get a life, troll, or at the very least an education.
Tim from Bit on the Side


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 07 May 06 - 02:30 PM

I do think I know how to spell my married name thank you. And that remark about the Reverend McCrea is uncalled for.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 07 May 06 - 01:50 PM

Well, if Gillian really is who or he or she claims to be I really think s/he might have spelt her/his name as 'Brookborough' or 'Brookeborough', rather than getting that very basic point wrong! That clan still owns significant parts of Fermanagh.

Then s/he refers to the wonderful Reverend William McCrea, long-time DUP member, all-round bigot and releaser of several atrocious country and Irish albums.

S/he's a fake and a complete wind-up merchant.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 06 - 01:45 PM

Brookbourgh, you do not compute. "Origins" (with a capital "O", no less)! Such self aggrandisement. We have no interest in the origins of your name, merely whether you are who you say you are. Yet despite your self professed grandness you "shutter" to think. You are probably not what you purport to be.

Let us pray (those of us who pray), for the sake of your soul (metaphorically speaking), however, that you are not as foul as Thatcher, who ranks as one of the great evils of this century, and who I hope will one day suffer as much as she caused others to suffer. Ironically, she was of course all for an exploitable immigrant population to assist her fellow capitalists to grind the faces of the poor. Her xenophobia yielded to greed.

I use my real name and do not hide from what I post.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 07 May 06 - 01:25 PM

Bank details, national insurance number, results of last two years smear test results. Anything else ? What or who do you actually think you are ?
Been watching too much Ross Kemp on Saturday evenings in that force programme.

For heavens sake why would I wish to impersonate anyone. I was asked by a friend to read remarks on this site regarding Margaret Thatcher. Anyway who am I impersonating ?

Silly titletattle if you ask me.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 May 06 - 12:46 PM

"Gillian Brookbourgh"; the reason we have to check on the existence of people sometime is because sometimes impersonation occurs on forums, which is extremely unpleasant. In this case, however we are clearly not dealing with impersonation, just someone faking a non-existent identity to promulgate political views. This is a folk music forum. Enough said.
Of course, if you actually exist, I will apologise. All you have to do is name the organisation for which someone called "Gillian Brookbourgh" is the 52-year old widowed arts coordinator. I await your comment.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 07 May 06 - 12:28 PM

Why this witchhunt ? I simply expressed a personal viewpoint. And no I do not take a lively interest in internet forums, I was asked by a friend to view some of the outrageous remarks being made here. Does every vistor to your forum receive the same treatment.

I have told you I am not a member of the BNP nor am I a troll, a word many seem to like using, frankly I never heard it used before.

I am British and very proud of it. Regarding someone searching the Origins of my surname, I find that appalling and somewhat underhand.

If some of you are an example of what England has become, frankly I shutter to think of the state of this country in a few years time.

Late sixties student protest groups are somewhat dated, grow out of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Tammy
Date: 07 May 06 - 10:49 AM

So, Melodeonboy, when we see the word 'British' we have to use our common sense to decide whether it means British or not. God, what kind of sense is that?


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: melodeonboy
Date: 07 May 06 - 08:06 AM

Guest, Tammy: instead of just throwing around words such as "imperialism", why don't you use a bit of common sense regarding the use of "English" instead of "British".

I would have thought it obvious that as the BNP is an almost entirely English phenomenon, and it is English people who are affected by it, it makes sense to relate it to English matters, in this case English folk music.

I've already made it clear (yes, the second "Guest" posting on this thread was mine; I wasn't hiding anything, it was just me being dozy and forgetting to sign in!) that I don't think that there's much of an issue here even for English folk singers. I would think there's even less of an issue of worrying about the BNP infiltrating Scottish or Welsh folk music circles.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 06 - 06:37 AM

Google UK returns no hits at all for the name Brookbourgh.

Google worldwide returns one hit only from a blog written in Spanish.

If the name is that rare it is odds on the name used here is not real.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 May 06 - 06:30 AM

As I thought. I have just had a little google, and, surprise surprise, the only "Gillian Brookbourgh" I have been able to locate is a contributor to this thread. You would have thought an arts coordinator in England with a lively interest in internet forums would have left another footprint or two on the sands of time, during her fifty-two years of existence. Unusually, there seems to be a general shortage of people in the world called Brookbourgh(I presume she spelt her name correctly, it appears several times). You would think, if she really existed, that a google search would throw up a few other members of the family on one of those innumerable genealogical sites. No, I think we have a one-off troll here.Possibly a rightwinger BNP stirrer: or possibly just a common or garden stirrer. Whichever it is, best ignored.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 May 06 - 06:20 AM

If there is really an arts development officer called Gillian Brookbourgh in England who is a BNP supporter, it should be relatively easy to find out. personally, I find the posts under this name in this thread highly suspicious, but maybe this person exists. I will look into it.
    However, I am probably not alone in spotting certain verbal mannerisms in the posts not unlike some other rather odd pseaudonymous vists to Mudcat over the last few years.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Tammy
Date: 07 May 06 - 05:13 AM

It's quite amazing. I always thought the B in BNP stood for 'British' but the opening post immediately jumps in with 'English' and the majority of postings seem to agree. Isn't this form of imperialsm, it can't be called ignorance, just as bad? Or maybe, God willing, the BNP doesn't exist in Scotland or eleswhere in the British Isles.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 06 - 03:56 AM

I don't see much in the way of rational discussion here, and I do see quite a lot of ad hominem abuse.

I also see a distinction between adherence to and/or preservation of a tradition, on the one hand, and propaganda on the other. If we stuck to the definition of folk music and song as distinguishing it from contemporary music in the style of the tradition, then it would be plain that propaganda could not be folk music or song, for it would be newly created.

I am concerned at the possible disappearance of my tradition, which is why I try to emphasise it in my repertoire, and I would think there to be proper ground for concern if England were to subsidise and support almost every tradition but her own. That would be an improper discrimination.

The distinction that has to be drawn, and it is often a hard one to draw, is between supporting one thing and vilifying others, between being proud of, or of being, one thing, and asserting that others are inferior. This forum does see quite a lot of vilification and assertion that others are inferior, but it is not usually the Eglish who are guilty of it.

If BNP members really want to learn about their own history, traditions, and cultural history, we should welcome that, for education might improve their minds. We should also welcome representation of differing points of view in politics (within reason) but be wary of the glorification of murder or abuse (and there are plenty of examples of such glorification from accepted groups of songs already).

We permit (and even encourage)

1. Relatively recent Irish rebel songs celebrating the murder of Englishmen (but, for some reason, not Orange songs celebrating the murder of non-Orangemen)
2. Jewish music associated with Zionism
3. Non-Jewish music opposed to Israel
4. Vernacular music from WW2 celebrating the death of Germans or Japanese
5. A range of songs featuring gipsies, some supporting them, some denigrating them
6. A range of traditional songs featuring racial and social stereotypes.


While the knee-jerk revulsion at the appearance of the BNP in connection with folk is understandable, our views ought to be rational and consistent, and we should almost certainly not endorse the burying of an extant tradition merely because one political group sought to adopt it.

We should, I think, be fareful to separate our dislike of the BNP from any view about English music and song.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 06 May 06 - 09:19 PM

" I am a 52 year old who was widowed at 44. I am not a man, nor am I a BNP member."

Stop the guilt trip - get a life you right-wing thug.

52... I'm sad that you're a pathetic old woman trying to justify her existance by being racist.

Never mind, by the time I'm 52, you'll be long gone.

Get lost.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 09:09 PM

No, you musn't be. However, the badgering (as you put it) isn't really. You are just another Nazi and racist. Your gender doesn't enter into it. Go peddle your racist garbage somewhere else.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 06 May 06 - 08:55 PM

No I am not a member, no such desire, why must I be ? Why do you wish to pick on me ? I suppose much easier to badger a woman than Terry K, yes the chap who saw you off!


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 08:44 PM

BTW, Gillian: Is it possible that you do not join and post as a member at Mudcat because you are already a member?


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 08:19 PM

BTW, I am sorry you were widowed.

As to your racist views and love of the good old BNP, I retract nothing. You would take the country my grandfather fought for and turn it into the same thing he fought against. Stuff your views, Gillian. And stuff the BNP.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 08:14 PM

I can be that, particularly with racists and Nazis.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 06 - 08:13 PM

The only thing you are developing is a split personality. We know who you are now go swivel on a splintery pole.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 06 May 06 - 08:04 PM

Dear Peace

What you have just said is nasty, rude and vile. If you wish to make fun of the way I speak, that's fine. You are only displaying your own Vulgarity and lack of proper manners and edicate.

I am a 52 year old who was widowed at 44. I am not a man, nor am I a BNP member.

I am from Ulster living in England and feel great pride at being British. I am a member of the D.U.P. I taught Sunday School, attended Sullivan Upper, am a member of the Free Presbyterian church. I work as an Arts Developments officer anything else you would like to know ?

You are a vile little man and appear obnoxious.Just scully off please.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 07:58 PM

cracking stuff
good old English folk
smashing article

Hrrumph!


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 07:49 PM

Also, I can't believe I used "it's" as the possessive case. Now, I am all . . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 07:40 PM

"I so wish some would refrain from petty squabbling, and ensure that the focus here is on the thread in question."

Gillian, you patronizing twit, the thread was started by Guest wordy. It is his call as to whether the thread is drifting away from it's purpose. His views are clear in his first post. So far there has been no drift that wasn't introduced by you. Get a life, man, get a life!

BTW, I think you are a guy. And for gawd's sake, NO ONE talks like you anymore. You sound like a caricature of a person trying to speak English in a B movie produced in a country where English is a second or third language. Give it up.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:54 PM

"Look, don't give the oxygen of publicity to the BNP tossers (the bloody media's already done too much of that), and don't give their feeble minds any ideas about possible connections between us (folk singers) and them. The more attention you give them, the more encouraged they'll feel and the more attention they'll want (simple child psychology!)."

I wish I could ignore them... they really wind me up though!

Back to the thread, I always thought that the folk scene was more left-wing - as mentioned in previous threads, hasn't there always been links with the communist party?


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:52 PM

Lee Haggan

Results since 1992Election
Constituency Party Votes(%)
General 2005 Doncaster North
British National Party 1506
(4.8%) 5

Don't say you haven't been warned people. They are using tried and tested tactics and we must use all our nous and the tactics our parents and granparents used to eradicate these people and their ideas.If we don't the history books tell us our fate.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:35 PM

One of the finest British folk singers singers you will ever hear is William McCrea. He did a concert in Belfast last year with a special guest appearance by Lee Haggan. It was one of the most heart rendering and emotional experiences of my Life.

I so wish some would refrain from petty squabbling, and ensure that the focus here is on the thread in question.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:35 PM

Interesting to see Guest Gillian coming on to this thread so quickly. I've noticed this sort of thing in other areas, particularly Sky News feedback. I think they are monitoring references and using the Net and Tv to spread their poison. I couldn't disagree more with Guest above. Complacency of the opposition is why germany succumbed to the nazis.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:33 PM

Dear 'Dave the Gnome',

About 20 - 25 years ago I had some friends who worked at Manchester University. They were members of the University International Society and through them I got to meet some singers and musicians from other parts of the world. I remember, in particular, a stunning singer from Northern Cyprus.
I no longer have the contacts mentioned above, and I'm not even sure whether the Uni. International Soc. still exists - but it might be an avenue worth exploring.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:01 PM

I fail to see the connection between English folk singers and the BNP, and, consequently, the point of this thread. Are you going to start warning Chilean folk singers that they might be infiltrated by Pinochet supporters?

Look, don't give the oxygen of publicity to the BNP tossers (the bloody media's already done too much of that), and don't give their feeble minds any ideas about possible connections between us (folk singers) and them. The more attention you give them, the more encouraged they'll feel and the more attention they'll want (simple child psychology!).

As for the history books; yes, I've read them, and I can assure you that the UK in 2006 is a very, very different proposition from the Weimar Republic in 1933.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 06 May 06 - 11:55 AM

"cracking good material to arouse your Patriotism"

Gillian, please just leave.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 06 May 06 - 11:09 AM

folk music or barbarism?
albert


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 06 May 06 - 11:01 AM

Gillian
All the great music is life affirming and on the side of social justice and humanity.
When Woody Guthrie wrote THIS GMACHINE KILLS FASCISTS on his guitar he meant it.When Pul Robeson sang the Ballad Of Joe Hill the became part of the trade union folk lore and kept the ideas of American trade unionism and the Wobblies alive even through the darkest times.
As for the Copper family I am sure their songs of the common man will never be appropriated by a bunch of nazis BNP thugs who are far more in love with the songs of the SS than folk music.
Gillian...no one has yet written a convincing song about shoving dogmess through the doors of asian shopkeepers but perhaps it may come to that.
thousands or more!!
ifor


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Mr Fox
Date: 06 May 06 - 10:42 AM

'Hidden England' is in a book called 'Views from the English Community' which is - guess what - on the BNP's essential reading list, so you can guess what kind of crap THAT is.

When will the likes of GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh get it? We don't WANT your type in our folk clubs and at our festivals. 'English' folk music doesn't mean racist or exclusive folk music.

Go and peddle your Nazi crap where it will be appreciated. Millwall football ground or your local home for the mentally disadvantaged should do you fine. Failing that, crawl into a hole and die in agony.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 06 May 06 - 09:48 AM

Must say Hidden England by Richard Todd is cracking stuff about English folk music.

The first thing it does is confirm that there is indeed such a thing as English Folk Music (anyone looking through the shelves of most high-street music stores could be forgiven for thinking that only the so-called 'Celtic-fringe' of Britain and other foreign nations possess such a thing).

It goes on to discuss good old English folk and the problems and issues that one encounters when trying to define the distinctions between one country's folk-music and that of their neighbours.
\
There is a smashing article, together with an essay introducing the folk-music of Copper Family, should act as a great source of information and inspiration for those familiar with or interested in discovering English folk-music.

Go on guys have a look at Hidden England, cracking good material to arouse your Patriotism.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 May 06 - 07:28 AM

I think it is down to the predominantly white organisers of folk activities to make a positive effort to seek out folk music wherever it is performed and invite its practioners to the events, whether domestic,pub, club or festivala. Invite them socially, or offer to book them, according to how the muscians are operating(or wish to operate). That way, the folk scene will reflect what traditional folk music is performed here. Which, surely, is the idea? Isn't it?(OK I admit theat is not the idea at the moment, I would just like it to be).


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 06 - 07:15 AM

I expect one problem could be that the 'world music' ( can't stand that term) scene is very much thriving in parts of UK, ok in cities anyway, there are probably festivals of one kind or another, big and small where we can go and watch the most wonderful performers from many countries, week in and week out.

Why would they want to play in a mostly inclusive environment that has never included them? Shouldn't the home grown folk groups be the ones to try and intergrate into the already established world music scene.

Although I agree in principle with what you are suggesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 May 06 - 06:42 AM

Dave the Gnome: I'll PM you my phone number so we can talk about this. Personally, I would happily locate you a modestly priced very genuine African or Asian act, and drive them up to Manchester myself for the crack. You have identified accurately a very real problem: that a lot of black and minorty acts are professionalised in a sort of showbiz/folkloric kind of way, which has been devised to suit funders/civic festivals/worksops(of a certain kind etc). But in a folk club you might well want to hear some nice real people singing some nice real down home songs. You don't want a grand or two's worth of zebra skins, ostrich feathers and renactments of pieces of folklore(often far removed from the culture of people renacting them). These exciting "acts" may be wonderful on a summers day on stage at a festival, but I feel something else is needed as well. Basically, the Coppers or the McPeakes, shall we say, but from Zimbabwe or Kurdistan. And I think if festivals and clubs would support acts like that, then what larks,eh? And what a poke in the eye for the BNP, who think such people should be deported.


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Subject: RE: BS: BNP and folk music
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 06 - 06:08 AM

A few more black and Asian local performers made welcome on the folk scene would surely provide a welcome balance to any potential infiltration by the "whites only" brigade from the various unsavoury parties of the right which occasionally float to the surface for a(hopefully) brief period.

A very good point indeed, Greg, and I'm glad it was you that made it! :-) If I remember rightly do you have contacts with Black or Asian or any other ethnic groups? Possibly recent immigrants as well? I was going to PM you but it may be useful for all club and festival organisers to know.

I would love to book a few more artists from minority groups for the very reasons mentioned. Every time I try though I seem to hit a wall. Booking local English, or even Irish, Scots and Welsh, artsts is very easy and quite often inexpensive. Many even just turn up for free to play in sessions as well. Whenever I try to book someone from a local minority group, and there are many in the Salford area, I am quoted ridiculous prices for seemingly professional dance or song troops and artists.

How do we get the local minorities to turn up at our clubs and festivals when we cannot afford to pay a lot of money? Any help would be greatly appreciated from both this organiser and to help in the fight against facism!

Cheers

DtG


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