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BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?

GUEST,Martini 28 Feb 06 - 11:14 AM
JennyO 28 Feb 06 - 11:25 AM
Clinton Hammond 28 Feb 06 - 11:25 AM
Alice 28 Feb 06 - 11:27 AM
GUEST 28 Feb 06 - 11:44 AM
Peace 28 Feb 06 - 11:45 AM
bobad 28 Feb 06 - 11:47 AM
GUEST 28 Feb 06 - 11:57 AM
Emma B 28 Feb 06 - 12:00 PM
Clinton Hammond 28 Feb 06 - 12:03 PM
GUEST 28 Feb 06 - 12:06 PM
GUEST 28 Feb 06 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,Martini 28 Feb 06 - 12:11 PM
Purple Foxx 28 Feb 06 - 12:17 PM
Clinton Hammond 28 Feb 06 - 12:17 PM
GUEST 28 Feb 06 - 12:21 PM
Bill D 28 Feb 06 - 12:36 PM
Clinton Hammond 28 Feb 06 - 12:38 PM
frogprince 28 Feb 06 - 12:58 PM
GUEST 28 Feb 06 - 01:06 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 28 Feb 06 - 01:25 PM
cool hand Tom 28 Feb 06 - 04:48 PM
Little Hawk 28 Feb 06 - 04:55 PM
Bill D 28 Feb 06 - 05:13 PM
Rapparee 28 Feb 06 - 05:29 PM
bobad 28 Feb 06 - 05:29 PM
M.Ted 28 Feb 06 - 07:28 PM
Kaleea 28 Feb 06 - 08:27 PM
Bill D 28 Feb 06 - 08:37 PM
Cluin 28 Feb 06 - 08:43 PM
GUEST,M.Ted 01 Mar 06 - 01:02 AM
Bunnahabhain 01 Mar 06 - 07:43 AM
Paul Burke 01 Mar 06 - 07:51 AM
*daylia* 01 Mar 06 - 07:55 AM
Bunnahabhain 01 Mar 06 - 08:50 AM
GUEST,M.Ted 01 Mar 06 - 09:26 AM
kendall 01 Mar 06 - 09:31 AM
*daylia* 01 Mar 06 - 09:41 AM
Clinton Hammond 01 Mar 06 - 09:52 AM
*daylia* 01 Mar 06 - 10:10 AM
Purple Foxx 01 Mar 06 - 10:14 AM
*daylia* 01 Mar 06 - 10:20 AM
*daylia* 01 Mar 06 - 10:42 AM
SunnySister 01 Mar 06 - 11:25 AM
SunnySister 01 Mar 06 - 11:39 AM
Wolfgang 01 Mar 06 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,Bagpuss 01 Mar 06 - 11:52 AM
*daylia* 01 Mar 06 - 12:06 PM
Cluin 01 Mar 06 - 12:14 PM
*daylia* 01 Mar 06 - 12:25 PM
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Subject: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST,Martini
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 11:14 AM

I don't believe that being " virgo " makes me one thing or another, or that I am good to have a good day today because I am a virgo. I wouldn't care that other people believe it, if it wasn't for the fact that it annoys me that just about every " decent" magazine or newspaper gives up space to tell you your " star signs ". It seems like something from centuries gone by !

What do other mudcatters think ?


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: JennyO
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 11:25 AM

I'm inclined to think there is something to it, but the "Your Stars" sections in the magazines are just for fun really, IMO.

A few years ago, my singing partner was writing a song about new age ideas - she's a Virgo and like you, she is also quite sceptical (It's a common Virgo trait;-)). I contributed a couple of verses here and there, and my last line of the song was: "but I'm a Virgo and I don't believe in all that stuff!" Best line of the song, I thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 11:25 AM

It's a load of rubbish....

Especially given that "Pluto/Charon" is most likely just a big pair of comets from the fringe of the Oort Cloud and not even a 'planet' at all...

Smart people, publishing garbage and making money off the DLDs of this world....


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Alice
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 11:27 AM

My stock answer to threads on this topic:

History of Astrology

Many Mudcat opinions on astrology.

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 11:44 AM

My sign is Faeces.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 11:45 AM

No shit!


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: bobad
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 11:47 AM

Thanks for the link Alice, I enjoyed the article - but then again having been born a Virgo I guess I was pre-disposed to enjoying it.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 11:57 AM

I would take issue with the article regarding what it said about no research having ever supported anything to do with astrology. Thats simply not true there are many pieces of research that show that the time of year you are born affects various traits. Most of these are expainable by other means than astrology though.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Emma B
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:00 PM

I'm in two minds.........but then I'm a Gemini :)


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:03 PM

" there are many pieces of research"

Put up or shut up....


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:06 PM

http://www.psy.herts.ac.uk/wiseman/papers/Born%20lucky%20PAID%202005.pdf


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:09 PM

Extract from above:

Season of birth is known to be associated with several psychiatric and neurological disorders
(Torrey, Miller, Rawlings, & Yolken, 1997, 2000), including schizophrenia (Davies, Welham,
Chant, Torrey, & McGrath, 2003; McGrath & Welham, 1999; Tochigi, Okazaki, Kato, & Sasaki,
2004), epilepsy (Procopio & Marriott, 1998) and brain tumors (Brenner et al., 2004). The most
striking and well-documented empirical observation is an excess of winter–spring borns among
persons with schizophrenia as compared to those in the general population, both in the Northern
hemisphere (Davies et al., 2003) and in the Southern hemisphere (McGrath & Welham, 1999).

PS I am NOT an astrology believer, just pointing out that season of birth is associated with other factors, which may have been the starting point for astrology, in trying to explain these differences.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST,Martini
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:11 PM

Right, you see I think that is really intersting, Guest. I can believe that seasons can make a difference.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:17 PM

Do I believe? Short answer is no.
Do tend to the view that a capacity to see patterns where none exist virtually qualifies as a defining characteristic of our species & am inclined to interpret belief in Astrology as adding preponderance to this hypothesis.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:17 PM

"A recent study indicates that people born in summer consider themselves luckier than those born in the winter."


Key word... CONSIDER themselves....

Interesting study nonetheless.... but it hasn't changed my mind....


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:21 PM

Surely that constitutes a personality difference? A different outlook on life. Might indicate whether you are an optimist or a pessimist. Read the whole article, or at least the whole introduction to get the flavour that there is a fair amount of research out there showing differences in people born at different times of the year.

(PS Wisemans other research has shown that people who consider themselves lucky ARE actually more lucky, mainly due to their behaviour around areas of life affcted by luck and chance - eg risk taking etc.)


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:36 PM

"...known to be associated with..." is a biased statement on the face of it. "claimed to be associated" is at least 'formally' honest.

You can find statistical evidence to prove anything, if you pick & choose the data.

For every Aries you show me that is short-tempered and resourceful, I can find one who isn't....and I can find a palm reader and a Tarot reader who will agree with me! *grin*

This is just another case of people "placing the dart, then drawing the bullseye around it." They decide what they'd like to believe, then look for supporting evidence, with the parameters for "supporting" pre-defined.

Still, it's a relatively harmless game....until you get high officials using superstition to make decisions for the country!


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:38 PM

"placing the dart, then drawing the bullseye around it."

well said!


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:58 PM

With all the factors that can actually be shown to affect our personalities and propensities in substantial ways - heredity, birth order, parenting, education, economic background, you name it - I kinda crack up at hearing people ask "What's your sign" with the apparent expectation that that will actually tell them something about someone else. Hey, guys: we're talking about the relative positions of blobs of gases and solids millions or jillions of miles away.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:06 PM

The difference is that the scientists actually test their claims. One study might not be enough to prove anything, but it adds to the amount of data available. There is of course the problem of publication bias skewing the research, but that applies to any area of science you could care to mention. If you want to dismiss the whole of science too, be my guest and go try and sail off the edge of the earth.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:25 PM

I know too many people who share the same "sign" as I do whose personalities are polar opposites of my own to put any store in it.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: cool hand Tom
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 04:48 PM

Can i just BUTT IN folks.Jees i allways give me capricorn sign away.

      Regards Tom,just off to eat the washing off the line..


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 04:55 PM

I don't know. I think some people can read a chart accurately, but is that because astrology works or is it because those people are highly perceptive or have some psychic ability?

Anyway, astrology basically just doesn't interest me.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 05:13 PM

What happens to Astrology when the constellations change to totally new patterns?


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 05:29 PM

I think it's all wet...but I'm Aquarius.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: bobad
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 05:29 PM

That question was addressed in Alice's link to a very interesting article, here is an excerpt:

Another hilarious aspect of astrology is due to the astronomical phenomenon known as the precession of the equinoxes. This was known to Greek astronomers by 150 B.C. and may have been known much earlier. It completely destroys the framework of astrology. The problem is that the early astrologers, for whom the sun rose in Aries at the spring equinox, defined the sign of Aries to be centered on the point of the spring equinox. But as the ancient Greeks knew, the equinox swings in a great circle, taking about 26,000 years to complete its cycle. Thus, today, the sign of Aries is nowhere near the constellation Aries! This detachment of the meaning of the symbol from the random scatter of stars whose arbitrary name originally gave the symbol its name and significance is ludicrous even to many astrologers, who thus disagree with all other astrologers by keeping the sign fixed to the constellation instead of letting it move with the equinoxes!


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 07:28 PM

I don't really believe in anything--it occurs to be that beliefs are suppositions and confabulations that get in the way of observation--which, faulty though it may be, is the only tool we have to acquire knowledge.

Given that, it has been observed that the shifting of gravitational fields has a major impact on human behavior--and the unpleasant fact (for all you smug skeptics who don't realize you are just as irrational as all the "believers") is that when we observe the movements of astral bodies we indirectly observe gravitational changes--so, based on what we know, planetary movement would be a significant factor in human behavior--


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Kaleea
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 08:27 PM

If new planets (or whatnot bodies) have been discovered, are there more out there in our Sol system? Since these planets were not figured into the current zodiac charts, would they not be altered by that fact?


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 08:37 PM

...and there is this butterfly in Brazil who may flap at a certain velocity and cause cattle stampedes in Texas.

*sigh*.. M. Ted...the point is, although *strong* Macro events 'may' affect behavior in developed nervous systems, (just as they can help birds navigate...etc..) what we "smug skeptics" object to is generalized claims that tiny 'micro events' (in the case of influences beyond the solar system, VERY micro-events) can **determine** behavior patterns at birth! (Not at conception...at birth...as if moving outside Mommy's womb suddenly makes us susceptible.)

Do they REALLY think they can show that every baby born in Mercy Hospital in Denver, on 20 May, 1939 is going to exhibit similar "smug skepticism" to mine? I have news...many, many polls have been done that show little to no correlation over a large, random population.

My skepticism is not 'smug', it is a result of looking at all the evidence I can find and evaluating various claims based on science, statistics and common sense. In almost all cases, it is almost glaringly obvious that attributing similar personalities to those born on specific days is highly subjective and easy to refute with slightly different points of reference. In the cases where sincere attempts are made to NOT be subjective, correlation is still often unclear and subject to variations in selected data. Where clear correlations ARE found, they are usually within the boundaries of chance. (some babies from 20 May, 1939 are bound to be skeptics...☺...the lucky ones..*grin*)

In spite of appearances, I am open to new evidence, although cleverer folks than I have done the math, the science, and the sociological studies and pretty well shown that those cattle in Texas most likely just were spooked by a wolf, just as my 5rd grade teacher who sold me my 1st encyclopedia most likely had as much to do with my skepticism as the stars & planets.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 08:43 PM

"A recent study indicates that people born in summer consider themselves luckier than those born in the winter."

Because they get to have beach parties and pool parties and barbecues for their birthdays.
In the winter, everybody's too overdrawn from Christmas to get you a nice present or throw you a big wingding.

So say I, with my birthday in mid-January.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST,M.Ted
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 01:02 AM

Well, first off, BillD, I never said that you were smug--I was thinking of Clint Hammond, who makes a studied point of it--

We humans understand very little of the mechanics of the universe, and even less about the nature of relationship between our inner universes and the outer one--

For the sake of arguement, let us say that, rather than having a single soul, we are a confluence of many souls--let us say that all the souls are really manifestations of one of say, twelve different overarching consciousnesses, each with a bunch of subsets. And let us say that, by contractual arrangement with the creator of the universe, the mix of souls in each human is dictated by the position of the planets at the moment of conception.

Now the question is, supposing for a moment that this were true, how would we ever figure it out?
We, as humans, wouldn't be in a position to be able to see it happening--no means of measuring, and of course, no idea what it was we'd have to measure in the first place. Our minds would probably be unable to conceptualize the mechanism, because it would be so complex.

So the system of order would be there, but, because of our narrow perspective and limited information processing capacity, it would be obvious to us that nothing was going on at all--

As I am fond of saying, "All I know is, everything you know is wrong!"


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 07:43 AM

Of course they're a load of rubbish that have no bearing on reality, but many people belive in them.

Some people belief that as they're a Capricorn, they should behave as if they are. As those who don't believe don't know what a Capricon should be like, they shouldn't display any bias in how they behave. The whole population of Capricorns is now, on average behaving in the manner astrology predicts.

It is also a form of madness that has no bounds. I know rational, intelligent, sceptical scientists who belive in astrology, and numpties who swallow all sorts of rubbish who reject it.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 07:51 AM

I like the story of the physicist in the 1930s, one of the pioneers of nuclear research, who had a horseshoe nailed on his lab door. Someone asked him, "Surely you don't believe in such superstitions?". He answered, "Of course not. But they say it works whether you believe in it or not."


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 07:55 AM

What's usually found in newspapers and magazines are solar horoscopes - predictions based on where the sun was when you were born. Interesting, maybe good for a bit of fun but seriously, any "horoscope" based only on the position of the sun is so general and vague they are best described as "silly". IMO.

Natal astrology, on the other hand, is much more detailed and accurate than a solar horoscope. In natal astrology, a complete chart is drawn up showing the position of the sun, moon and all the planets at your exact moment of birth. Place of birth is also very important - it gives the sign of the Ascendant (the constellation appearing over the horizon as you were born) and the position of the 12 "houses" on your individual chart. The sign and aspect of the sun, moon, the Ascendant and (some say) Saturn are the most important factors on any chart. And that's why some people born while the sun was in "Aries", for instance, do not show many typical "Aries" traits.

Like me. I was born March 24 -- (sun in the Fire Sign Aries) --- but --- the moon (ruling emotions) was in the Earth sign Taurus, and the constellation appearing on the horizon (the Ascendant) was in the Air sign Gemini. So my "fire" (ego, will) is often dampened by a penchant for pleasure, laziness, relaxation and all the "good things in life" (Taurus) and by a need to dig out and investigate and understand "both sides of the coin" in all things (Gemini). I'm actually more like a Gemini than an Aries ....

But again, a natal chart is NOT a prediction. It's more a description of the "house" you live in, the "playing field" it's on and the basic equipment you came in with. What you choose to do with that particular equipment, in that particular house on that particular playing field is totally up to you. Free will rules!

This is one the best astrology sites on the web, imo --- Astrodienst. Enter your birth time and place, and the computer calculates your complete Natal Chart, free of charge. Then you can study your Personal Portrait, for a detailed description of your Sun, Moon, Ascendant, position of houses and most important aspects (the angles planets make to one another). Try it for someone you know well too, and see how accurate the description is. But you WILL need the exact time (up to the minute) and place of birth. Have fun!

daylia


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 08:50 AM

So you now have three or four different factors, each one of which can be predicting something diferent. All you've got to do is pick the one that fits. As noted above, throw the arrow, and then draw the bulls-eye....


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST,M.Ted
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 09:26 AM

I was meandering above--my real point is simply that, given what we know, the basic idea behind astrology, that the position of the planets has an effect on human behavior, is not unreasonable.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: kendall
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 09:31 AM

Believe it or not, "The truly wise man is never sure of anything."


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 09:41 AM

So you now have three or four different factors, each one of which can be predicting something diferent.

Bunnahabhain, if you'll read my last post a bit more carefully, you'll see that "... a natal chart is NOT a prediction. It's more a description of the "house" you live in, the "playing field" it's on and the basic equipment you came in with. What you choose to do with that particular equipment, in that particular house on that particular playing field is totally up to you. Free will rules!"

Funny how people see only what they want to see, mostly. And what they want to see is usually based on individual expectations and prejudices, rather than honest first-hand investigation and experience.

(Actually, the "factors" of influence in a natal chart are about as endless as the universe itself. I only mentioned what's usually considered the "top four" -- sun, moon, ascendant and Saturn).

All you've got to do is pick the one that fits. As noted above, throw the arrow, and then draw the bulls-eye....

Whatever turns your crank, B. If you're not interested or don't like even the idea of astrology, well then don't look at it. If, however, your neighbour does find it interesting or helpful, or enjoys studying it, what do you gain by ridiculing it (or them?).

WHen you know diddley-squat about a subject, having never personally investigated or studied it, you do risk looking like an idiot when you go ahead and present "opinions" about it anyway. Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has a couple, and sometimes they stink.

daylia


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 09:52 AM

" that the position of the planets has an effect on human behavior, is not unreasonable"
Except that there's no evidence to support it...

"what do you gain by ridiculing it"
You've stood up for intelligence... Hopefully towards an end to Oogy-boogy-ness....


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 10:10 AM

K, I just checked my personal daily horoscope at that Astrodienst site. I find it quite accurate and insightful, most days. That's because the Astrodienst computer uses the person's complete, unique natal chart for the daily horoscope feature, and not just the sun sign.

Here's what it says for me, for today --- (I usually check it at night, so I can see how it may or may not have "fit" with the days events. And I've learned alot about astrology and come to have great respect for it as a result).

Phony issues ***

With this influence, you have to show other people that you are someone to be reckoned with. Or you may have to defend yourself against an attack from someone, whether or not you have provoked it. This influence is most likely to produce conflicts, anger and resentment. The best thing to do, if a conflict situation arises, is to have it out immediately. If you do not find a satisfactory outlet for your energies at this time, you will be easily angered, resentful, irritable and quick to take offense. If you must blow up at somebody, make sure that you understand the real source of the conflict, so that it can be aired. All too often, conflicts occur over phony issues that are only symbols of a much more profound problem."

HA! Having been duly warned, I'm outta here shortly. Not gonna waste time and energy over "phony issues" people really care nothing about except as a chance to argue!

But I will say this -- my ex is an identical twin, and I have identical twin sons. My ex and his twin are like peas in a pod -- they get along great, are very similar in taste and personality, have been very "close" all their lives. By contrast, my identical twin sons are quite dissimilar, do NOT get along very well. I always wondered about this, and what I found out when I did their 4 natal charts was quite interesting.

While both sets of twins have almost identical charts (of course), the 10 minute difference in my twin's birth-times put their Ascendants into different signs. So while both twins have Sun in Pisces and Moon in Scorpio, my older twin's Ascendant is in Scorpio, the younger in Sagittarius. ANd yes, there is and always has been quite the difference evident in their personalities! However, my ex and his identical twin DO have the same Ascendant (Leo) as well as the almost identical placement of sun, moon and planets seen in twin births. And they always have been more similar and got along MUCH better than my own.

And I say ... Vive la difference!


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 10:14 AM

Surely the best way to predict the future is to help create it?


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 10:20 AM

WEll, we "help create it" anyway by everything we say, think, feel and do every moment of our lives. Whether we recognize that or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 10:42 AM

PS -- I find the ideas, insights and counsel offered at Astrodienst to be most wise and helpful anyway, with or without the astrological slant.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: SunnySister
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 11:25 AM

Daylia- thank you so much for taking the time to write and share about your knowledge and exeriences with astrology. I've always been intrigued and have had my natal chart done too.

I'm looking forward to looking at the site you referenced for a refresher course on my natal chart as it's been a few years and I have no idea where I put my original printout. I will say that the chart and my friend who shared what all the houses meant in my natal chart were not only right on but actually helped me understand myself better and answer a bit of why some things "really" matter to me and some of the choices and journeys I've chosen to take in my life.

How fascinating about the twins in your life! I do hope that your sons come to understand and celebrate their differences so they can get along better with each other instead of the friction.

-- SunnySister, who very much is cancer


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: SunnySister
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 11:39 AM

Just in case- I think the link Daylia gave us is connected to her account. Best to use this one and create your own as there are limited amounts of free charts the site will make:

http://www.astro.com

It's an easy to use and interesting site! Thanks Daylia!


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 11:45 AM

The link in the 28 Feb 06 - 12:06 PM post is well worth reading. Richard Wiseman is a fine scientist of a quite skeptical kind. He looks for natural explanations instead of paranormal in all sort of reports/data/experiences. He's the man to go into haunted houses and to look for natural causes like temperature changes ("makes me shiver"), draughts ("felt like a cold hand"), noisy rafters ("there was a knock but nobody was there al all"). In the above mentioned article he first looks whether the data are there at all and then goes on to find natural explanations. He mentions a few but not all at the end of the article.

His findings, however, have nothing to do with the predictions of the usual birth chart astrology, and his explanations even less so.

Gravitational effects of the planets are so small it makes no sense at all to look for an explanation along these lines. When your dog comes into the room near to you, its gravitational pull is larger than that of all planets combined.

Now if the astrologers has said before 1930 that something was missing in the equation for the best of their horoscopes were still a bit off target and a ninth planet could explain the deviations, we would regard their theories with awe. However, it was not them but the astronomers making this prediction.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 11:52 AM

Maybe we could do a little experiment? All of us give our birth details to one person (someone sceptical) who enters them into the site mentioned above. That person gets everyone's charts, and prints them here, without attaching the details of who they belong to. The we all try to guess which horoscope is ours. Its just a bit of fun, but it is something I have tried before. Using an astrology site, people were terrible at getting their own charts correct, but for some reason, the kabalarians seemed to be uncannily accurate. We are too small a data set for it to mean all that much, but it would be interesting.

Bagpuss


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 12:06 PM

That site offers good quality printouts of all types of charts, complete with excellent explanations/interpretations, absolutely free of charge. I really like it -- enjoy, SunnySister! And thanks so much for your kind words and hopes for my twins.    *sigh*   Sun in Pisces, Moon in Scorpio is not exactly the easiest combo to reckon with under any circumstance (as you can probably well imagine, oh Watery One!)


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 12:14 PM

Sometimes it's the Oogy-boogy-ness that makes life worth the living.

Astrology however is pure squidge.... in my opinion, of course.

I believe in nasal astrology.
Pick a booger out of your nostril first thing in the morning and predict the day's outcome based on it's shape, colour and configuration with regards to the prevailing wind.


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Subject: RE: BS: zodiac/star signs.. do you believe?
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 12:25 PM

SunnySister, thanks for posting the link to the Astrodienst home page. Much easier to navigate for first-time users. Should have logged out before I copied the URL, I see now. And you're right -- the site is very easy to use.

Bagpuss, I think that's a great idea! And I nominate Wolfgang, or BillD to collect and post the info, if either would be so kind.

I see people still don't get my point about the importance of interpreting astrological information as "descriptive" first,
"predictive" second. Astrology is "predictive" only insofar as the free will of the individual allows.


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