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Guitar tab - your requirements

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GUEST,Pavane at work 14 Nov 05 - 04:14 AM
s&r 15 Nov 05 - 05:09 AM
s&r 15 Nov 05 - 05:18 AM
GUEST,Pavane at work 15 Nov 05 - 08:18 AM
Mooh 15 Nov 05 - 10:01 AM
Grab 15 Nov 05 - 10:35 AM
Grab 15 Nov 05 - 01:53 PM
GUEST,pavane at work 16 Nov 05 - 03:36 AM
GUEST,pavane at work 16 Nov 05 - 03:57 AM
Mooh 16 Nov 05 - 08:07 AM
GUEST,Pavane 16 Nov 05 - 09:09 AM
GUEST 16 Nov 05 - 10:25 AM
Grab 16 Nov 05 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,pavane 17 Nov 05 - 03:19 AM
GUEST,pavane at work 21 Nov 05 - 07:31 AM
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Subject: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: GUEST,Pavane at work
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 04:14 AM

I have now managed to incorporate Guitar tab into HARMONY (Build 3.4.1 Not yet released).

I have placed an example (picture) of what it produces on my web site www.greenhedges.com

You have to move the mouse over the navigation links, and part of a score display will pop up.

Unfortunately, it is part of a random display, so you might have to move the mouse a few times before seeing the right picture, which is KEMP's JIG.

Please can you all look and see if the tablature is suitable for your needs. Any suggestions for improvement will be considered.

The rules so far are:

1. Tab can be displayed for any file, wherever it is loaded from (abc, MIDI, native format)

2. All voices shown on the score displayed will be included - in the example, there are 4 (i.e. the maximum of concurrent notes)

3. To restrict the tab to the melody, you just have to select melody only on the View menu. You can also display the tab for any combination of selected voices.

4. Tab can be shown for mandolin or guitar (Standard or one open tuning so far)

5. The program will automatically assign each note to the first (lowest) string on which it can be played. You can override this, and the overrides will be saved with the file.

6. Notes which cannot be played on the instrument will be shown as x.
So will notes which cannot be played on the manually assigned string.

7. The Tablature is not related to the MIDI instrument chosen for playback. This would not be possible to implement, because MIDI standard instruments do not contain some (e.g. Mandolin).
So you have to set them manually.

8. The accompaniment generation feature is not yet linked to Tablature instrument, so it currently generates notes which are not playable. This will be fixed later if possible.


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: s&r
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 05:09 AM

x is usually taken to mean a damped string used for percussive effect: probably better to use (say) ? for unplayable notes. Unusual to see tab taken from 'piano' music. Normal guitar notation uses leger lines for notes below the treble staff. By melody do you mean top notes, or do you designate the music in four independent voices which can cross?

Identifying tuning of open strings is good - can the program cope with modified tunings as this would seem to suggest?

Stu


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: s&r
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 05:18 AM

Hammer-on, pull-off, bend, slide...?


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: GUEST,Pavane at work
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 08:18 AM

Hi
1. I will change the unplayable notes to ? as suggested.

2. The program uses independent voices, which CAN cross. In my example, the melody notes are stem-up and the other voices are stem-down. Of course, you can't tell with the semibreve!

3. HARMONY can display using Open score mode, which shows each voice separately. You can actually specify that each voice is Treble, but there is no score mode yet to display them all on one staff.

The use of a bass clef (i.e. piano style score) was dictated by the existing program capabilities. It would take more changes to show everything on the Treble clef, but not impossible.

4. Hammer on and Pull off can be already shown on the score by using the slur (although present not in this example), but not yet on the tab. It needs more work to be able to implement such tab-specific features, and is quite tricky. I would like to get the basic tab sorted before adding these features.

5. The program allows only for preset tunings at the moment, but I intend to add a Custom instrument feature in which you can specify the number of strings and the tuning or each string. This is quite a complex piece of work, because I have to cope with updating the file format so that the tuning details can be saved with the tune, and reloaded later.

In the short term, I can add specific tunings on request. As an example, the program can currently use one open tuning (I think it is Open G) which is just the one I had handy. If you post any that you specifically want, I will put them in before releasing it.

Thanks for the feedback - it is very valuable and will help me to provide what is needed.


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: Mooh
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 10:01 AM

I like the numbered measures, and the font is pretty clear.

What about timing, rests, note values? People dislike looking up and down the staffs constantly for timing. I can read standard notation okay, but tab shows the intended note location, so I tend to watch it more closely the first few times through, which may be the only times if it's a lesson piece for someone else. Many Mel Bay Publishing books have nicely presented tab.

Thanks for asking, and it looks like a good resource.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: Grab
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 10:35 AM

Common tunings are open-G (DGDGBD), open-D (DADF#AD), drop-D (DADGBE)and DADGAD (as it says ;-).

Does Harmony not support multiple notes on the same stave? If not, how does it handle fiddle tunes, which often use double-stopping (especially in Old-Time)?

A big plus for me would be the ability to do unison notes - playing an open A and an A on the 5th fret of the E string, for example. Both at once, or letting one ring on and playing the other shortly after. Many tab programs have problems with this.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: Grab
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 01:53 PM

I've just checked out the screenshot. Looks good!

While I remember. Capo position would be good too - together with an option for whether you want the score and tune to be displayed in the "new" key or not (eg. if capo 2, do you want the score to show a D chord as E). This also relates to issues with "transposing" instruments like trumpets.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: GUEST,pavane at work
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 03:36 AM

HARMONY was originally designed for a specific purpose, and due to its design, cannot handle concurrent notes in one VOICE, but it CAN display two or more voices on one STAFF, giving the same visual effect. The example shown on my site actually has 4 voices.

I am currently adding a new score mode, Guitar Staff, which will show all voices in the treble clef, on one staff, since this appears to be the standard.

There is no problem with unison notes, provided they are in different voices. They can be of different durations etc, because all voices are independent. You can even have one displayed stem-up and the other stem-down on the score. However, you will have to override the automatic string assigment for one of the notes - that's just a simple edit.

I have provided for adding Capo position later, and can then decide on the playback options - whether to transpose or play as written.

The program can already play back in a different pitch to the score, to accommodate transposing instruments. This is a playback option on the MIDI menu.

Mooh, yes In the longer term I could add tails like some printed versions of Tab use. This is fine for a melody only, but can be a bit tricky when you have concurrent notes of different lengths. Also, I am not sure how rests are traditionally displayed on Tablature. At the moment, I ignore them, but could easily add them to the display.

The actual algorithm for joining stems in the score is VERY complex, so I will leave that until the core function is stable.

I will also have to address the accompaniment generation algorithm, which is currently only really suitable for keyboards. There needs to be a check that two notes are not generated which need the same string!

I still don't think that HARMONY will be able to generate a full and practical arrangement automatically for guitar, but it may perhaps include some useful variations.

I will add the suggested tunings - so far it just has standard and open G.

Please keep the suggestions coming, and I will try to accommodate as many as possible.

I have enhanced the Tablature Instrument selection to give you the option to change the MIDI instrument (for all voices) at the same time as you set the Tab instrument. This makes setup a bit quicker, and I have tried to find suitable defaults as well. I still can't find a MIDI instrument which is anything like a Mandolin though.


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: GUEST,pavane at work
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 03:57 AM

I forgot to say, the font used can be changed. The Tab uses whatever font you have defined as the body font, which is also used for the measure numbers.

Also, the measure numbers CAN be switched off by a program option. This can be helpful to remove clutter if you have lyrics displayed as well.


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: Mooh
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 08:07 AM

pavane...Fwiw, I prefer regular standard notation style rests in tab too, so there's some common indicators. Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: GUEST,Pavane
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 09:09 AM


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 10:25 AM

Looks like the system somehow lost the text of my last post.
It wasn't really important, so I won't bother to do it all again


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: Grab
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 05:54 PM

Sounds pretty cool, Pavane. Looking forward to giving that a go when it's done! :-)

Graham.


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: GUEST,pavane
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 03:19 AM

I have now programmed the Guitar Staff as mentioned above. I should be ready to distribute the new build in a couple of weeks, when I have revamped the generation of accompaniments to suit guitar.


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Subject: RE: Guitar tab - your requirements
From: GUEST,pavane at work
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 07:31 AM

Still working on it!

I have managed to get the accompaniment generation to restrict notes to those playable on the selected instrument, and the tab display to weed out any cases where the score calls for two different notes on the same string at the same time!


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