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BS: Saddam Will Rise Again

GUEST,Crowbar 10 Nov 05 - 08:36 AM
Green Man 10 Nov 05 - 08:48 AM
GUEST,Crowbar 10 Nov 05 - 09:14 AM
Amos 10 Nov 05 - 09:40 AM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 05 - 09:47 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 10 Nov 05 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,Crowbar 10 Nov 05 - 09:55 AM
TIA 10 Nov 05 - 10:07 AM
GUEST,Crowbar 10 Nov 05 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 10 Nov 05 - 10:33 AM
GUEST,Crowbar 10 Nov 05 - 10:46 AM
Wesley S 10 Nov 05 - 10:50 AM
Little Hawk 10 Nov 05 - 10:54 AM
GUEST 10 Nov 05 - 10:56 AM
Piers 10 Nov 05 - 11:03 AM
GUEST,Crowbar 10 Nov 05 - 11:06 AM
Wesley S 10 Nov 05 - 11:10 AM
GUEST,Peter Woodruff wdyat12 10 Nov 05 - 11:27 AM
Little Hawk 10 Nov 05 - 11:34 AM
Wesley S 10 Nov 05 - 11:39 AM
Wolfgang 10 Nov 05 - 11:41 AM
Wesley S 10 Nov 05 - 11:51 AM
Wolfgang 10 Nov 05 - 12:26 PM
Little Hawk 10 Nov 05 - 12:40 PM
Little Hawk 10 Nov 05 - 12:55 PM
Amos 10 Nov 05 - 01:10 PM
TIA 10 Nov 05 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,Crowbar 10 Nov 05 - 01:46 PM
GUEST 10 Nov 05 - 01:52 PM
Little Hawk 10 Nov 05 - 03:31 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 Nov 05 - 05:31 PM
GUEST,Easter Bunny 10 Nov 05 - 08:45 PM
Little Hawk 10 Nov 05 - 08:49 PM
Bobert 10 Nov 05 - 09:17 PM
GUEST 10 Nov 05 - 09:22 PM
Bobert 10 Nov 05 - 09:46 PM
GUEST 10 Nov 05 - 10:18 PM
Bobert 10 Nov 05 - 10:50 PM
GUEST,Interested bystander. 10 Nov 05 - 11:01 PM
Little Hawk 10 Nov 05 - 11:06 PM
Bobert 10 Nov 05 - 11:23 PM
GUEST 11 Nov 05 - 02:29 AM
GUEST 11 Nov 05 - 02:33 AM
Bobert 11 Nov 05 - 07:21 AM
beardedbruce 11 Nov 05 - 08:01 AM
GUEST 11 Nov 05 - 08:15 AM
beardedbruce 11 Nov 05 - 08:24 AM
Bobert 11 Nov 05 - 08:30 AM
GUEST,leftydee 11 Nov 05 - 12:45 PM
dianavan 11 Nov 05 - 03:18 PM
beardedbruce 11 Nov 05 - 03:38 PM
Peace 11 Nov 05 - 03:39 PM
Peace 11 Nov 05 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,Crowbar 11 Nov 05 - 04:25 PM
Little Hawk 11 Nov 05 - 04:29 PM
Peace 11 Nov 05 - 04:52 PM
GUEST 11 Nov 05 - 05:02 PM
Bobert 11 Nov 05 - 06:58 PM
Bobert 11 Nov 05 - 08:12 PM
Teribus 11 Nov 05 - 08:50 PM
Bobert 11 Nov 05 - 09:11 PM
Teribus 11 Nov 05 - 09:21 PM
Bobert 11 Nov 05 - 09:31 PM
Teribus 11 Nov 05 - 09:46 PM
GUEST 11 Nov 05 - 10:09 PM
GUEST 11 Nov 05 - 11:00 PM
GUEST,Crowbar 11 Nov 05 - 11:02 PM
Peace 11 Nov 05 - 11:20 PM
GUEST,Peace: 11 Nov 05 - 11:32 PM
GUEST,Boab 11 Nov 05 - 11:36 PM
Bobert 11 Nov 05 - 11:38 PM
Peace 11 Nov 05 - 11:43 PM
Peace 11 Nov 05 - 11:44 PM
Bobert 11 Nov 05 - 11:59 PM
Peace 12 Nov 05 - 12:09 AM
Bobert 12 Nov 05 - 12:17 AM
Peace 12 Nov 05 - 12:24 AM
Peace 12 Nov 05 - 12:33 AM
Peace 12 Nov 05 - 12:38 AM
Bobert 12 Nov 05 - 08:00 AM
Peace 12 Nov 05 - 02:43 PM
GUEST,Crowbar 06 Dec 05 - 11:27 PM
Bobert 06 Dec 05 - 11:40 PM
GUEST,Geoduck 07 Dec 05 - 12:24 AM
Ebbie 07 Dec 05 - 01:03 AM
Teribus 07 Dec 05 - 05:38 AM
Bobert 07 Dec 05 - 08:40 AM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 07 Dec 05 - 05:20 PM
M.Ted 07 Dec 05 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,13 year old girl 07 Dec 05 - 10:49 PM
Bobert 07 Dec 05 - 11:10 PM
GUEST,Teacher 07 Dec 05 - 11:42 PM
GUEST,13 year old girl 08 Dec 05 - 12:21 AM
Once Famous 08 Dec 05 - 09:53 PM
Bobert 08 Dec 05 - 10:29 PM
DougR 09 Dec 05 - 01:26 PM
Janie 09 Dec 05 - 05:00 PM
Janie 09 Dec 05 - 05:01 PM
Janie 09 Dec 05 - 05:01 PM
Puff The Magic Dragon 09 Dec 05 - 05:25 PM
GUEST,zefto 09 Dec 05 - 07:35 PM
Big Mick 09 Dec 05 - 09:26 PM
robomatic 09 Dec 05 - 09:50 PM
dick greenhaus 09 Dec 05 - 10:04 PM
GUEST,glowboy 09 Dec 05 - 10:06 PM
The Fooles Troupe 09 Dec 05 - 10:16 PM
Bobert 09 Dec 05 - 10:24 PM
Big Mick 09 Dec 05 - 10:29 PM
The Fooles Troupe 09 Dec 05 - 10:35 PM
Terry K 10 Dec 05 - 06:03 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 10 Dec 05 - 06:05 AM
DougR 10 Dec 05 - 12:28 PM
Donuel 10 Dec 05 - 01:15 PM
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Subject: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Crowbar
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 08:36 AM

Due the the feckless supporters of Political Correctness and Anti-War girly men, Saddam Hussein will regain his position of Dictator of Iraq.

Crowbar


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Green Man
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 08:48 AM

Don't feed the Troll :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Crowbar
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:14 AM

Greenman:

Thanks for the instructions.

Now tell us what we are allowed to think.

Crowbar


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:40 AM

I think it is extremely unlikely. Ten bucks?

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:47 AM

Now, Amos, I think most of us will agree that he will rise, at least temporarily on the scaffold...


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:47 AM

Only way Saddam's gonna rise again is if someone can figure out a way to get his soul back from Hell after he's been executed.

On the other hand, the likelihood of another strongman rising to power in Iraq would seem pretty darn good. And the likelihood of that strongman being a religious fanatic instead of a secularist like Saddam seems even better.

But it won't be "due (to) the the feckless supporters of Political Correctness and Anti-War girly men". It'll simply be because expecting a society that, throughout it's entire history, has been ruled by a monarchy, dictatorship, or external colonial/imperialist power to reverse course and adopt a democratic system of self-governance is unrealistic.

I hope Mr. Bush's experiment in externally-imposed democracy works, because the consequences of it not working are really scary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Crowbar
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:55 AM

What will happen to Saddam?

Already he can't get an unfair trial. Killers hired by his family and Baathist supporters are killing the lawyers of others on trial to make it an unfair trial. "I can't get a lawyer because the insurgency caused by the US is killing the lawyers."

It will be moved to the Hague and he will make a campaign platform out of it.

The new Iraq government will fall apart due to killers harbored, supported and financed by Iran and Syria and Baathists.

He will then be able to regain his former position and blame everything on the US.

He is being aided and abetted by anti-war wimps all over the world.

The sumbitch needs to be executed now.

Crowbar


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: TIA
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:07 AM

Actually, it's rather wimpy to go along with the tough talk distortions that led us into the war. Much tougher to face the truth.

You'll find all kinds of anti-warriors who agree with you that Saddam must never return, let alone go free.

But you'll make no friends and influence few people blaming Saddam on us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Crowbar
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:31 AM

So what is your plan for bringing justice to Saddam? Withdraw from Iraq?

Crowbar


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:33 AM

Naw...he'll never run Iraq again. Not a chance. But there is one out for the big guy, and this is it. He does a sudden, dramatic religious conversion and gets "born again", preferably after a heartfelt confab with Billy Graham. It worked for George Bush, so why not for Saddam? From that point on, Saddam will constantly quote Jesus, his new Lord and Saviour, and will love everything American (Jesus was an American, wasn't he? Must have been...). Hell, Manuel Noriega did it too, and they didn't execute him. Remember? Okay, so next thing that happens, Saddam will be exported stateside and take up country music or maybe even become a TV gospel preacher. He will get a daytime TV show from Las Vegas and deliver diatribes against Muslim fundamentalists and anybody else that doesn't love Jesus and America.

This is definitely the way out for Saddam, and I think he should go for it. No question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Crowbar
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:46 AM

Not Graham. He should get The Rev Jesse Jackson, Clinton's spiritual advisor to cleanse away any wrong doing.

Crowbar


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:50 AM

So what's your plan.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:54 AM

That's an inspired idea, Crowbar, but it would be a better move to make under a future Democratic administration than the present Republican one. I figure Saddam will have to be pretty cagey about this, and pick the right preacher to suit the prevailing political climate in Washington.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:56 AM

im sick of folk telling me he/she is a troll. trolls everywhere.

dont tell me what to do dickhead


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Piers
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:03 AM

It makes good business sense to give Saddam a seat on the board of some arms manufacturer. His contacts in the middle-east would be could have great value for any firm supplying security to region. Besides a lot of US public money was invested in Saddam in the 80s.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Crowbar
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:06 AM

I think the answer is quit whining and to stay the course.

Of course you can do and think what you like but what is your solution?

Crowbar


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:10 AM

Guest - If you use the shift key when you type the word dickhead it will show up as DICKHEAD. It will have a lot more impact that way.

It's just a suggestion - please don't confuse that with telling you what to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff wdyat12
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:27 AM

Saddam is DEAD! What we see here in this political circus is the 13th remnant of the Saddam Lookalike Contest pre George W Bush. So What! Where is What's his name? Twin Towers, 911, Suadis, Oil, Micheal Moore was right!

wdyat12


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:34 AM

"stay the course"

Yeah, that's what Johnson and Nixon said about Vietnam. But then...Nixon got elected TWICE for promising to "end the war in Vietnam". He ended it by losing! (chuckle) Well, he ended it by pretending that "Vietnamization" would work and that the South Vietnamese government forces could hold the country. They couldn't. Not by a long shot. They went down like a lead balloon. I call that ending a war by losing it.

"stay the course"

That's what Hitler said about the war in Russia. Hmmm.

"stay the course"

That's what Saddam said about the war with Iran. Hmmmm.

"stay the course"

That's what the King of Spain said about taking over England when he sent the Armada. Remember?

"stay the course"

That's what Jefferson Davis said after Atlanta fell.

Boy, just think what they could have achieved if not undercut by all those damned whiners and naysayers who told them it was all over!

My solution? Admit that this war was done for the wrong reasons, was a bad idea, was illegal, and is impossible to end. Disengage as soon as possible. The aftereffects will not be nice. There will most likely be a lot of fighting for some time between Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds, with the Sunnis and Kurds getting the worst of it, because they are outnumbered. That is almost unavoidable, and it will be a direct result OF the present war.

One other thing that could be done: bring in a multinational peacekeeping force from the U.N. to help police the area for a few years as has been done in other wartorn regions, like the Balkans. However, I think in this case it would be quite hard to find very many countries willing to contribute troops to such a force. The risks are too high, and the payoff is questionable.

The situation in Iraq now is an unholy mess that offers no obvious solution whatsoever. It could have been avoided in the first place by NOT attacking them for things they didn't have (weapons of mass destruction)...and things they didn't do (911).


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:39 AM

Dang it Little Hawk ya beat me too it.

Crowbar - what LH said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:41 AM

"Stay the course" with five examples in which it was wrong is very impressing. Would you be impressed as well with five examples in which it was right?

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:51 AM

The difference Wolfgang hinges on if we were supposed to be there in the first place.

We should not be in Iraq. My guess is we will disagree on that statement. Correct ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 12:26 PM

No, you are not correct, Wesley. I strongly agree with your statement. The Iraq war was at the very least a serious error or even worse.

If I disagree with a type of argumentation I may or may not disagree with the opinion for which was argued. In this case I agree with Little Hawks opinion but not with his particular type of argumentation for it.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 12:40 PM

Yes, Wolfgang, here are five examples in which it was right.

Stalin stayed the course when resisting the German invasion.

Ho Chi Mink, the Veit Minh, the NLF, and North Vietnam stayed the course when resisting foreign occupation of their country by various people (the French, the Japanese, the French again, the Americans, and an American surrogate Catholic Vietnamese client administration in Saigon).

Elizabeth the 1st of England stayed the course when menaced by a possible seaborne invasion by Spain.

Iran stayed the course when invaded by Iraq (which was armed by the USA, Britain, etc).

Abraham Lincoln stayed the course after disastrous defeats at places like Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville.

Simple, eh? You happy now? ;-)

Staying the course is a good idea when:

1. you are defending your own land against an invader
2. you are fighting for a valid reason
3. AND when it is still possible to bring your cause to a successful conclusion

If #3 is not a feasible possibility, then staying the course is not an act of wisdom, but an act of stubborness, pride, and absolute folly, doomed to defeat...as in the case of Jefferson Davis after Atlanta's fall, for example....or in the case of Hitler's dragging out the fight in Germany till the Russians were shelling his own bunker in the ruins of Berlin.

As for the USA's position in Iraq, I believe it fails to satisfy either #1, #2, or #3.

We may, however, differ on the chances of the USA and Britain bringing the situation in Iraq to a successful conclusion. I don't think they can do so. Perhaps you think they can.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 12:55 PM

Some more interesting examples, Wolfgang:

Geronimo and other Apache leaders stayed the course when resisting American invasion of their ancestral lands. They were resisting foreign invasion and they were fighting for a valid reason. Eventually, however, it was no longer possible to bring their defence effort to a successful conclusion. They were too outnumbered. There comes a point when it is simply stupid and futile to stay the course any longer.

Accordingly, Geronimo finally surrendered.

What one has to do at the end of the day is this: face reality.

Each situation is unique, and each situation must be dealt with on the basis of its particular conditions.

I think the US war in Iraq fails to satisfy any reasonable rationale, and therefore is unsupportable. I think it was launched for irrational emotional reasons (revenge for 911 and other things), irrational notions of establishing "security" for the American homeland (it has not done that and will not do that), greed for oil, and other unjustifiable motives.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 01:10 PM

The problem is that the course was not defined at the outset; it was changed drastically several times in the course of the war dependingt on what line Bush thought he could sell.

The course as currently defined, like the orgiinal invasion, is predicated on a poor perception of the nature of the public intop which Bush seeks to inject his beliefs about what "should" be.

If you go to a Thursday bazaar, where owning a single stall is a sign of prestige and every sale is argued to the tenth of a dinar, and try to sell them computer-based market analysis, because everyone knows that's how it should be, they will run you out of the bazaar on muleback.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: TIA
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 01:42 PM

Okay, Crowbar's solution is "stay the course". What is this course we are staying?


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Crowbar
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 01:46 PM

"If you go to a Thursday bazaar, where owning a single stall is a sign of prestige and every sale is argued to the tenth of a dinar, and try to sell them computer-based market analysis, because everyone knows that's how it should be, they will run you out of the bazaar on muleback."??

What happens if you go to a bazaar in Tuesday and try to sell them Quaker Oats?

Would they run you out of the bazaar on camelback or donkeyback?

What would we sell them at a bazaar that would be suitable?

What would we prefer to ride on if they still do not like what we are selling?

Maybe the Easter Bunny knows the answer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 01:52 PM

Keep crowbra busy here and the idiot won't infect other threads. Its a public service.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 03:31 PM

LOL! Now, there's a cynical view of it. Thanks for the laugh, GUEST.

Crowbar - I think the vital thing about going to a bazaar is this: Don't sell the people your stuff at gunpoint. They may buy it (not having much choice about it), but they will find ways to get even with you later. Or their children will. Or their children's children.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 05:31 PM

Never met a bazaar I didn't like. Almost everything may be found for sale, including Quaker Oats.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Easter Bunny
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 08:45 PM

Damned if I know. Ask Amos


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 08:49 PM

Ah, but just think how much simpler life would be then...


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:17 PM

Hey, I hope that Saddam does regain his position of dictator!!!

Yeah, that's what I said...

The only thing that will stabilize Iraq, which Bush and all his men can't do, is Saddam...

Then send Rumsfeld over with a nice collection of goodies and a few pats on the back and next thing ya' know, Saddam is eatin' outta our hands again... Ready to gas the Iranians 'er whatever we need him to do...

Saddam was allways a company man... Even when he told Bush I that he was gonna invade Kuwair he go a "wink"...

Then Bush I thought he's roll Saddam under the bus fir political reasons ehre at home (like popularity ratings, sound familiar???) and so Bush I let Saddam go into Kuwait so that he could have a ni8ce little war that was supposed to get Bush I re-elected... Problem is that he mis-timed things and the American people saw thru him a little earlier than thery have now seen thru the son...

But, yeah, I'd take a thousand Saddam's over what we got now which is an endless quagmire of folks diein' (at our hands) and so much of out tax bucks going to buy the bullets...

So, yeah, Saddam.... We need you now more now than ever...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:22 PM

Bobert: That's the stupidist statement I have ever heard.

Are you potty trained yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 09:46 PM

What'as so stupid about it, GUEST, and be specific please...

(Also take under consideration whatnyou have now in Iraq-mire...)

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:18 PM

Every word, every thought, everything is stupid, sarcastic bullshit.

You are an idiot that is so seething with animosity you can't even type correctly. A danger to society.

Do the world a favor and commit suicide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 10:50 PM

'Er better yet, kill yer redneck dumbass...

Talk about ignorant, you are about eat up with it...

Tell ya what, you wanta kill Iragi women and kids, sign yer ignorant ass up in the the US militray an' go kill yer fill, assh*le...

Have a nice war, jerk!

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Interested bystander.
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:01 PM

"You are an idiot that is so seething with animosity you can't even type correctly."

Actually, that should read 'an idiot who'.

His typing is part of his signature here. Poor grammar/diction: is that part of yours? And that doesn't begin to address your deplorable attitude. You are Crowbar. And we all know who that is. Man of at least twenty faces, none of them his. Talk about a girly man. You are the epitome of that. No balls at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:06 PM

Bobert's spelling problems are due to dyslexia, I believe, not stupidity...

What he is saying is: when you have a country that is patched together out of several mutually hostile religious/ethnic groups (Kurds, Shiites, and Sunnis)....rather like Yugoslavia was (Serbs, Croatians, Bosnians, and Kosovars)...and that country is in a fairly primitive level of social development, where violence can happen easily between such groups...then the only way to keep the lid on the pot is with a strongman as leader.

In Yugoslavia it was Tito. He kept things peaceful and rather prosperous for decades in that country. After he died, it fell apart. In Iraq, Saddam managed to keep things running in an orderly fashion too, but it all started to unravel after he went off and fought a proxy war for the USA against Iran in the 80's, then invaded Kuwait, and then got attacked twice by the USA. Iraq was once the most modern, prosperous and liberal society in the Arab world (prior to the war with Iran). It is now an utter disaster.

To say that is in no way to excuse Saddam for his many crimes, it is simply to point out that in this case...the America-offered cure for Saddam has proven worse for most ordinary Iraqis than the disease was. That was Bobert's point.

There's an interesting book out about the war. It's called "The War Against Truth". Written by a Canadian journalist who was there during the war, and saw close up what was happening. You oughta check it out. You think Saddam was hated? Oh, he was. But take another think and imagine just how much America is hated there now. You'd have to be there to realize just how much. I'm glad I'm not there, and I feel sorry for any young American soldiers who are. It was not their decision, and they were lied to by their government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 05 - 11:23 PM

Thank you, LH, fir yer support...

Lotta folks here have this tunnel vision that only allows them to look at what has been *spoon-fed* them and when someone comes along and says anything tyhat migh be in conflict with their pablum diet of lies, then it's crunch time yet again fir them....

Problem is that they are one the wrong side of the equation....lBush as royally screwed things up... Hey, the "Saudi Plan" (Mitchell Plan( would have circumvented this ebtire quagmire and brought some level of peace to0 the region but it wasn't as sexy as a war.... SDo given the choice between sexy and politically expdient 'er smart, bUsh took Plan "A".......

...and look where it has landed him???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 02:29 AM

Thanks, Bobert, for saying what many people have been thinking for awhile, especially those from the Middle East. Saddam may have been a madman but he was their madman and at least knew how to control the many factions that threatened to destroy Iraq.

Nobody thanks Bush for doing what Saddam prevented and both Americans and Iraqis have payed dearly.

Chalabi created this war with the help of Bush and Blair. Does anyone in their right mind believe that Iraq is doing better with Chalabi as head of State? Talk about selling out your people to a foreign power. Chalabi is ten times worse than Saddam. Not only that, Chalabi cannot even stand on his own two feet.

Look at Iraq now and Iraq five years ago. Saddam was bad but Chalabi is worse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 02:33 AM

That last post was from me. How did drop my cookies?

dianavan


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 07:21 AM

My exact point, cookieless-d, Chalabi has no credible crendantials of being a man capable of runnin' Iraq or being able to stop the civil war that is going on there now...

I find it amazing the the US used him a source for their pre-war intellegence since the man hadn't lived their in over 20 years...

It is still my belief that had Bush II had wanted to reel Saddam back into the fold that all it would have taken is another gold plated M-16 ($2500), a jeweled sword ($2500) and a box of cigars ($200) and a visit from Rumsfeld... Yeah, Saddam was always eager to please the master... It's jus' when the master got a little pissy with him that his feelings would get hurt and he's be difficult...

BTW, I have asked the pro-war folks here how many folks Saddam was killin' per day in the year leadin' up to the invasion... Yeah, people love to throw around numbers but numbers can be very misleadin'...

Example: Saddam did stop an upriasing of the Kurds after Gulf I and, yeah, this was purdy nasty, especially since the US had promised the Kurds assisitence then rolled them under Saddam's bus... But if you take those numbers and roll them into the equation then, sure, Saddam waqs averagin' _______ deaths per day.... Handy little stat fir the hawks to throw out but l;ike how many folks did Saddam kill the Wednesday before the invasion of the Wednesday before that???

And how many Iraqi women, children and old folks did Bush kill the Wednesday after the inasion or the Wednesday after that???

This isn't just splitting hairs here... It is not a given that Saddam killed anyone the Wednesday before the invasion but it sho nuff is a given that Bush did the Wednesday after and probably every Wednesday since...

Plus, it is still my contention that Bush invaded Iraq, among other corporate interests fir thwe sole purpose of tryin' to win an election in '04 so Boss Hog coukld continue his raping and pillaging of America's working class...

And given the voter irregularities in Ohio, there's no proff that Bush actually won the '04 election unless theivery is okay in winning...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 08:01 AM

Bobert,

"Lotta folks here have this tunnel vision that only allows them to look at what has been *spoon-fed* them and when someone comes along and says anything tyhat migh be in conflict with their pablum diet of lies, then it's crunch time yet again fir them...."

"Yeah, people love to throw around numbers but numbers can be very misleadin'..."

I agree with you on this- it applies eqully to you as to others
(including, probably, myself and most others on posting here). Care to bring any FACTS to the discussion?




"And given the voter irregularities in Ohio,"

Care to star a thread on this? It seems that only two of the 68 counties in Ohio even used Diebold machines...


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 08:15 AM

Bobert:

You sound like a violent, unstable person to me.

Are you an anarchist too?

Did you go down to Argentina and march under a banner of Stalin, bust in and burn some stores?


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 08:24 AM

"but it sho nuff is a given that Bush did the Wednesday after and probably every Wednesday since..."

Actually, that is no more a given than any other unsupported claim you have made on Mudcat.


At the present time, the number of civilians killed in Iraq by the INSURGENTS is approaching, if it has not surpassed, the number of civilians killed by all US actions, Including the war itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 08:30 AM

GUEST:

Violent: No, though I beleive in self-defense and have had some martial arts training...

Unstable: Hardly. I would have gotten to the position I'm in if I were unstable...

Anarchist: Heck no. I believe in "govern"ment but not6 too wild about "ruler"ment...

Argentina: Yeah, I would have been in the streets, too... I don't believe that we need any more IMF and World Bank policies that are used by our "rulers" to exploit people in South American countries...

Stalin: Not my cup of tea, thank you...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,leftydee
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 12:45 PM

Guest,

The only thing I think you can accuse Bobert of is critical thinking. Look that concept up.... it may help you get your head out of your ass. Lefty


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 03:18 PM

"At the present time, the number of civilians killed in Iraq by the INSURGENTS is approaching, if it has not surpassed, the number of civilians killed by all US actions, Including the war itself."

That the problem BB. If Bush had not invaded, there would be no insurgents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 03:38 PM

dianavan,

If Saddam had complied with the UN, there would have been no insurgents.


I hold those who protested the war without demanding Saddam comply to be more responsible for the deaths of civilians than Bush is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 03:39 PM

However, and sadly, had the US not invaded then Saddam Hussein would still be slaughtering his own people, too. Basically, the Iraqis have been screwed for decades.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 03:59 PM

And to add to that, I think it all would have been much better had the UN authorized the invasion because it would have involved more countries, there would have been an end-goal in mind and likely the troops would have withdrawn by now, other than a peacekeeping force left behind to keep an eye on things. Bush pooched it, and I think knowingly or unknowingly, he did so at the behest of some BIG corporate players.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Crowbar
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 04:25 PM

Peace:

Are you actually in favor of the invasion, or as it was originally called, the liberation?


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 04:29 PM

The "liberation" is perfect. ;-) Operation Iraqi Liberation spells out to the acronym "OIL".

Realizing this could be embarrassing, the Bush administration changed it to Operation Iraqi Freedom, which spells out to "OIF".

(Oh, I Fucked up!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 04:52 PM

Crowbar:

Initially I was in favour of it and very disappointed that Canada decided NOT to go too. However, about a year later with the 'help' of many 'catters and their reasoning/argument, I began to see that it was a sham--and a f##ked up one at that--and that kids were getting killed for trumped-up reasons. Now, I am decidedly against it.

Please be aware that I subscribe to no particular political party; I am of the opinion that some wars are justified. I am also of the opinion that this one isn't. Had it received the sanction of the UN (as did the Gulf War), you'd not be hearing from me posting against it. However, all I have seen in this war indicates that corporate profits are way up and kids are getting killed for some rich bastard's bank account. IMO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 05:02 PM

An example of critical thinking:

"Hey, I hope that Saddam does regain his position of dictator!!!:

Brilliant. Hurts my eyes.

"Yeah, that's what I said..."

Reinforces the brilliance.

"The only thing that will stabilize Iraq, which Bush and all his men can't do, is Saddam..."

An expert on middle east peace has spoken. Maybe killing all the terrorists would work. Mybe sealing the borders would work. maybe a whole bunch of thins together would work. However this critical thinker knows the one and only thing that will work.

"Then send Rumsfeld over with a nice collection of goodies and a few pats on the back and next thing ya' know, Saddam is eatin' outta our hands again... Ready to gas the Iranians 'er whatever we need him to do..."

Do we need him to gas the Iranians? His history is gassing his own people, the Kurds. I guess Bobert thinks that was cool and wants an encore.

"Saddam was allways a company man... Even when he told Bush I that he was gonna invade Kuwair he go a "wink"..."

I don't know where Kuwair is. Maybe it was an airline. I do remember hearing a distress call from Kuwait pleading for someone to save them. Saddam's army was tying people to steel bedframes and springs, wiring them up to electricity and drilling holes in their heads with hand drills. Bobert says we need him to do that? Why can't Bobert do it himself?

"Then Bush I thought he's roll Saddam under the bus fir political reasons ehre at home (like popularity ratings, sound familiar???) and so Bush I let Saddam go into Kuwait so that he could have a ni8ce little war that was supposed to get Bush I re-elected... Problem is that he mis-timed things and the American people saw thru him a little earlier than thery have now seen thru the son..."

Bush already had the ratimgs and he knew the war would hurt him politically but the did it anyway. He stuck to his guns, unlike the anti-war weasels that cut and run when things get tough.

"But, yeah, I'd take a thousand Saddam's over what we got now which is an endless quagmire of folks diein' (at our hands) and so much of out tax bucks going to buy the bullets..."

A thousand Saddams would really cover the earth with dictatorial rule. The Bobert would be subject to summary execution ala Saddam.

I haven't heard of any American towns being massacreed by the administration. Maybe I missed something.

"So, yeah, Saddam.... We need you now more now than ever..."

So I assume Bobert speaks for all of us? Please exclude me from We.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 06:58 PM

I'll stand behind everything I have said, GUEST, except the bad spellin' and typin' which you seem to delight in playin' Professor Ballbauster... As fir yer interpretations, those are your words and your wordas only and do not representy my thinkin'... I believe that, with the exeption of you, just about everyone here sees thru your dishonesty in the interpretation...

See you infer that folks who opposed this dumbasse war from the jump are the kind of folks who "cut and run when the things get tough"... The implication is sophmorishly obvious and is nuthin' but a cowardly debate tactic...

(Bobert, why don't you ask GUEST what a "ratimgs" is? Maybe it's an "airline???)

Well, we won't bring up GUEST's typo because it as a sophmorish and mean spirited debating trick...

Did GUEST think it was cool when Saddam gassed Iranians?

Have I ever said it was cool to gas anyone, GUEST, or tie folks to bed frames, or toture them in Black Zones, 'er drop bombs on them, or drill holes in their heads?? Well, I'll tell ya what, GUEST... I've been posting here fir a long time and last count had posted over 6,000 times and I'd challenge you to provide any one of them posts that supports yer sophmorish inplication that I support any of these activities with the lone exception of suggestin' that if Saddam was Bush's problem wouldn't it have been better to kill him than 100.000 Iraqi'a that ain't him... Knock yerself out!!! Read every last one of them, GUEST and come back with yer findings...

But I know you won't do that because it would force you to abandon yer little sophmorish behavior and debating tricks...

But I'll give you an opportunity to shine here. Maybe you'd like to tell the peanut gallery why it was that Bush was in such a big hurry in the last few days before the invasion when inspectors were sayin' that thought progress was slow, they were making progress...

Then maybe you'd like to explain why Bush ignored thwe Saudi Plan like it was radiation...

Then maybe you'd like to explain why you think Bush wanted to invade Iraq when you have suggesteed that Saddam was the problem why Bush has called for a war that has killed on heck of alo0t of completely innocent women and kids? You got kids, GUEST??? How would you like fir yer kids, or yer wife, 'er yer parents to be bombed by another country 'cuase they was mad at our president??? Yeah, maybe you would like to address these very real human questions???

But probably not... Would involve you havin' to come out of yer secure little sophmorish bunker...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 08:12 PM

And just this afterthought... Since you have no real thoughts of yer own, GUEST, and resort to attack, attack, attack on the messenger while you hide behind yer GUEST label, isn't that a little like the way the terrorists operate??? Kinda chickensh*t tactic...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 08:50 PM

To both Bobert and to Little Hawk who both spout on here about how things were so much better in Iraq under the direction of Saddam Hussein - Just have a chat with those who had to suffer under his rule. Then come back and tell us all about it. JESUS-H-come-dancing Christ are you both so fucking stupid. No talking theoretical hypothesis here, just listen to the people whose lives this man his regime and his family completely and utterly destroyed (the rate on average was 282 per day). Oh sorry I forgot their suffering and their sacrifices are nought but a mere bagatelle compared to your dislike and loathing of George W Bush, who after all only won two elections (ask Al Gore - he conceded the first, the American population definitely endorsed the second) now live with it, get over it - much as you hate them Bobert it just happens to be a FACT.

By the bye LH you are the poorest fucking student of history that I have ever come across, you haven't the vaguest clue about the study of the subject. As for poor old Bobert, well he can't read (so he cannot understand ANYTHING that is put in front of him) he can't write (so he can't convey rationally what he wants to say, he masks this by puttin' on this West Ginney crap and the lefties on this forum fall over themselves agreeing with his crap), he doesn't understand figures that have been independently verified, so he simply invents his own to suit his arguements.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:11 PM

I'd like to enter the post of 11 Nov 05- 08:50 PM as "Exhibit A" that this current version of Teribus ain't nuthion' but some dumbass from some holler in Arkansas that prolly ain't got but 3 teeeth and an IQ hoverin' 'round 70... Man, you are embarassin' yerselof here...

Well, one thing is fir sure, I now certainly understand why yer hidin' behind that name... Heck if I was hal;f a stupid as you were, I'd hide, too... How 'bout comin' out of the dumbass bunker and use enuff of a handle so folks can know who you are??? Yeah, I lives wit5h some dumbasses back in Wes Ginny but you is in a class by6 yerself...

Tell ya' what, Teribus-Wantabee, I'm challengin' you to a Teribus v. LH History Bee!!! We'll have folks ask questions and both of you have to post within' 3 minutes... That way, you won't have 'nuff time to Google like "What was the War of the Roses about"... MY boy will kill yer 3 toothed dumbass so bad that the real Teribus will track you down and put a butt whup on you...

You up fir it???

A nice little History-Bee... You and LH with no time to run to yer encyclopedias... He'll knock yer sorry Bushite looser self out....

Lets do it right now so you don't have time to get a bunch of friends over to hepl you!!!

Yeah, let's do it tonight, you looser...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:21 PM

Bobert, 11 Nov 05 - 09:11 PM,

100% Pure personal attack Bobert - At what point are EVER going to get on to the substance of the points I am attempting to argue - I know you won't - just not in your nature - you are a classic left-wing, inverted snob, bigot.

Don't bother to reply to this unless you are prepared to argue a case, not just pure Bobert bigotry, remember the heads on the sticks, remember all those 'words on the streets' Nothin'come of it yet ould son, and nothin'ever will come of it. Still waiting for you to sensibly argue one single point.

PS: I'm not holding my breath.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:31 PM

The real Teribus ***HAD*** points... You don't... All you're good fir is attackin' the messenger... Yopu are the bigot 'cause you have not one issue you want discuss... Not one... All you want to do is attack, attack, attack... That's what folks who have no defenesine arguments do...

Hey, you pick out an issue and it can be me and you, pal... I offered this same deal to GUEST A and he picked an issue, then I laid out my arguments and he dion't have the common decency to respond... Just more attacks...

Lotta blow and no go with you guys/gals...

Yeah, you say I'm duckin'... Hey, it's you who is doing all the duckin'... Picki a friggin' issue where you think Bush is doing a finme job... GUEST A picked Katrina and I tore hima new one andf that's why he didn't want to play no more...

I'm gettin purdy fed up with yer sandbaggin', attack-the-messenger repetoire... Gettin' a little old and not to stimulatin'''

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 09:46 PM

So Bobert I didn't have any points?

How about these that you completely and utterly ignored:

1. Having sought the opinion of a representative number of Iraqi citizens, do they unstintingly wish that Saddam Hussein berestored to power -You will find that the answer to that one is a definite NO.

2. Did Al Gore, or did Al Gore not concede the 200 Presidential Election? Hint Bobert, this is a simple YES or NO answer. The answer is a matter of RECORD - AL GORE DID CONCEDE - FACT.

3. By what margin did George W Bush win the 2004 Presidential Election? Again Bobert a recorder matter of FACT

Now come on Bobert I'm waiting? No personal attacks now, you've tried all that shit and it's got you nowhere. Above are the points I have put up for discussion - Let's hear you discuss, if you can't, please take my advice and shut the fuck up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 10:09 PM

I don't have to explain anything I did not bring up.

You do have to explain your sarcastic and churlish satements, the most ridiculous of which is like "Saddam.... We need you now more now than ever..."

Maybe you can be more specific about who We includes and what we need him for.

Or just continue to spew shit to cover up for your lack of intelligence and sincerity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:00 PM

Bobert in a nutshell:

"All you're good fir is attackin' the messenger"


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Crowbar
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:02 PM

It's dickheads like Bobert that will enable Saddam to rise again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:20 PM

It would be considerably better form if you were to give your membership name and THEN be scathing with Bobert. Kinda a bit chickenshit to take shots from the bushes like that. Have the decency to

1) state your name
2) call your opponent the names you want
3) go take a shit in the ocean

Thank you.

PS Bobert has no 'love' for Saddam Hussein. You jus' don't know how to read him, that's all. Give it a rest, SVP.

Thank you again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Peace:
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:32 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:36 PM

Bobert---asking the question of iraqis "Would you like Saddam to make a comeback?" after all that has transpired over there is just about the outer limit of vacuous inquiry that anybody could imagine---perhaps except for those "fly-guys" who stand to gain propaganda points from the obvious answer. Few there are who would deny that the man was a ratbag. Those few are only SOME of the "insurgents" who are now involved in the everlasting fight against occupying coalition forces and those whom they see [not always correctly] as collaborators. Ask Teribus what his guess would be at the answer to the question "Would you like us to get rid of Saddam for you, at the expense of the lives of many thousands of Iraqi men, women and children?"--such question being asked BEFORE the beginning of the debacle? I suggest that then the reply would be radically different!
It's all "pie in the sky" anyway; the Bush-Tony crew had NO interest in "liberating " the Iraqi people. The real reason lies --as always, and never let constant lie-repetition blind you---in the desperate need for control over oil resource. That was the reason in the beginning, and it hasn't changed. I'd have more respect for those who are pro war if they'd at least admit that simple truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:38 PM

You ain't picked an issue, T-Lite... All you have picked is a bunch of a stuff that can't be proved one way 'er another becuase right now, there's way too much stuff coverin' it up... Now if you weant the particulars on the 2000 Election Thievery, read Greg Palist's book "Best Democracy Money Can Buy"... I dare you... Hey, 2004 was Diebold's year accross the country... Hmmmmm? Wonder why the exit polls were so different from the3 final results... Firast time since exit polls have been used that there was such a discrepency between on how voters said they voted for and the final results... Do I have proof???

Don't take a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows...

Yeah, pick like a real issue... You know, ahhhh, like a policy??? Taht too much to ask?????

You get to pick it...

No Child Left UnRecruited, Katrina, Tax Policy, Protectin' the Snail Darters in Alaska....

Shoot, bring it on...

You see, 100% of legislation that has been written under Bush wasn't wtritten by anyone other than corportist lobbiests and beneath it all is yet another trick to try to steal the workin' man's stuff...

Don't think so??? Pick yer friggin' issue!!!

Hey, I'm not only given you the choice of weapons but also the element of surprise.... So take yer best shot!!!!

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:43 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Peace: - PM
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:32 PM

To Joe Offer: would you be kind enough to tell me the address from which I posted that. I seem to be having a senior moment and I would like to verify exactly which computer I was at. Thank you very much.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:44 PM

PS

I am particularly interested because I was out having a cigarette--at least that's what I thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:59 PM

You smokin, Bruce???

Okay, that's all I need to read!!! Iz on my way to Canadaville and I'm bringin' 2/3's of the cure....

.... The anvil and the ballpeen hammer...

Now all we need is the smoker's private parts and the cure will have been delivered....

And, I might add, it's a 100% Guarenteed, Money-back cure...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 05 - 12:09 AM

Uh, Bobert, that ain't what I smoke with. (LOL. Did once or twice as a teenager, but them days is gone.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 05 - 12:17 AM

Cough.... Man, this is some dynomite stuff.... Cough....


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 05 - 12:24 AM

CIGARETTES. CIGARETTES. Tobacco, man, Virginia tobacco. Player's Light tobacco.

Having said that, pass it over here. I'm still searching for the year, 1967. It went missing between 1966 and 1968. Been lookin' for it nigh on 38 years now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 05 - 12:33 AM

DAMN. There's the answer. It's been between 1966 and 1968 all these years. Didn't think to look there. Since when have the years been in chronological order? Is this a new thing? I thought they was like comets or something, ya know? The first person to see it gets to name or number it. WOW!


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 05 - 12:38 AM

Freak-out in Alberta tonight, I'll tell ya.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 05 - 08:00 AM

Hmmmmmmm? Howz things this mornin', Bruce???

And fir the record, cronology ain't it's all cracked up to be... IT's gotten alot odf folks hurt or killed over the (years)....


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 05 - 02:43 PM

JOE OFFER

Regarding the post here

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Peace: - PM
Date: 11 Nov 05 - 11:32 PM


That was a serious request. Would you be kind enough to message me the address I posted that from?

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Crowbar
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 11:27 PM

Thanks to the traitor, Ramsey Clark Saddam, will rise again.

Attenton Bobert: This is a cut and past. If you don't lik it, blow it out of your crybaby ass.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002666990_clark06.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq — He wore a headset pushed back from one ear and addressed the Iraqi judge in English, in a genial but stern Southwestern drawl.

"May it please the court," former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark insisted, his frustration evident even to those who didn't understand what he was saying Monday. "I just need two minutes. If I don't get two minutes, we're going to walk out of the courtroom."

And so he did, precipitating an abrupt exodus by Saddam Hussein's defense team in a tumultuous day in the trial of the former Iraqi dictator.

To those who've watched his legal evolution over the past half-century, Clark's latest choice of clients — and his brief protest at the outset of Monday's proceedings — came as no surprise.

The son of a former U.S. Supreme Court justice who began his practice in the family's establishment law firm in Dallas, Clark has spent much of the past 30 years well past the reaches of mainstream politics and the law.

Long before he signed on to Saddam's defense team, the 77-year-old Texan had assembled a client list that included former Yugoslav dictator Slobodan Milosevic, a Rwandan clergyman charged with genocide and Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, who was convicted of conspiracy in the 1993 truck-bomb explosion at New York's World Trade Center.

Clark's far-flung legal forays have earned him dubious nicknames such as "the war criminal's best friend." Jack Valenti, a former colleague from the Johnson administration, says Clark has drifted so far out on the fringe as to become "amusing."

Todd Gitlin, a professor at Columbia University who helped organize the first major Vietnam anti-war protest in 1965, said he listened with admiration to Clark's anti-war speeches years ago. "I thought he was admirable, but he's gone haywire politically," Gitlin said. "He seems to have aligned himself with every tyrant and every war criminal he can find."

In siding with dubious figures that most other lawyers would shun, Clark asserts, he's fulfilling a "moral obligation" to guarantee that everyone, no matter how heinous the alleged crime, has a chance at equal justice under the law.

"You do in life what you believe is right," Clark said Monday in a CNN interview.

Clark has known Saddam for nearly 15 years. He met him on a visit to Iraq before the 1991 Persian Gulf War and returned several times to condemn U.N. sanctions, saying they were imposing hardship on Iraqi citizens.

Although Clark signed on to Saddam's defense team last January, becoming one of more than 20 lawyers who are representing him, Monday's proceedings were the American lawyer's first substantial performance in the Arab-run courtroom.

Family members and longtime associates say Clark's intense — critics would say misguided — sense of fair play is deeply rooted in his own history.

One of his two children, Ronda, was born severely handicapped, and Clark and his wife, Georgia, have devoted much of their lives to her well-being.

"Ronda is a lesson in love that made him even more compassionate and perhaps an advocate for the underdog," his sister said.

Clark's father, Tom C. Clark, served as President Truman's attorney general before he was appointed to the Supreme Court in 1949.

After serving in the Marines as a courier during World War II, the younger Clark earned a history degree at the University of Texas and a law degree at the University of Chicago, then returned to work in the family law firm.

For a while, he was the youngest assistant attorney general under President Kennedy, assigned to major civil-rights cases. President Johnson appointed Clark attorney general in 1966, prompting his father to step down from the Supreme Court.

After leaving government, Clark came out openly against the war by flying to Hanoi in 1971.

Three years later, he ran against Republican Sen. Jacob Javits of New York in an unorthodox campaign that included his refusal to take contributions of more than $100.

In subsequent years, Clark increasingly distanced himself from the political establishment.

His clients have included alleged former Nazi Karl Linnas, controversial political candidate Lyndon LaRouche and Radovan Karadzic, a Bosnia Serb general who was indicted on war-crimes charges.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 11:40 PM

Yo GUEST (meanin' any 12 year old girl in America)...

Maybe you'd like to Google Sidewalk Bob so you'll know where to come to collect yer butt whup... Hey, I'll meet you at the innerstate to save you on gas...

Chicken!!! Cluck, cluck, cluck... Must be nice tyo be 134 year olf girl hiding behing a scarey GUEST mask...

You mean nuthin' to me... You ain't even got the courage to come out from behind yer mask... You are a coward of the highest level...

Prolly a chickenhawk, too boot....

Prolly another couch potato who gets his jollies hidin' behind a friggin' mask and sayin' "Boo"...

Well, "Boo" back at ya, you sissy creep... You gonna attack me, come on out and play...

Wuss...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Geoduck
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 12:24 AM

So you don't like war but your violent side is showing. Maybe you think a fight solves things despite the crap you post here.

I'll tell you what, you can beat me up intellectually buy laying out some cold hard facts and none of your
"No Child Left UnRecruited"
"Did GUEST think it was cool when Saddam gassed Iranians?"
"Don't take a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows" Bobertisims

Also it don't matter if I am male, female, 12 years old or 134 years old.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 01:03 AM

Ramsay Clark is a principled, decent man who believes deeply in the concept of justice and democracy. Would that all did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 05:38 AM

Yes Ebbie especially Saddam Hussein.

Notice how our Aussie pal freda is not cutting and pasting the witness testimony from the Saddam trial - wonder why? Too harrowing maybe? Or maybe because oh never mind...


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 08:40 AM

First of all, Ramsey Clark has pointed out that this trial just might not be a legal trial seein' as it is being held by an interim government that was largely picked by an occupying army...

WEhy not have Saddam's trial moved to the World Court??? That would at least have some legitimacy...

(But, Bobert, Bush pulled out of the World Court for fear that US citizens might be hald accountable for their crimes against other folks...)

Good point but still, this trial is nuthin' but a big ol fashioned PR event... Makes the O.J. thing look like small potatoes...

But really, IMO, one day historians will lump this trail in right next to "Mission Accomplished" and phony landing...

(But, Bobert, Bush was in the plane...)

Good point but he didn't pilot it thou no one made much of an attempt to reveal that at the time.

Now back to Saddam... Yeah, send him to the World Court. This is embarrassing that an occupying army with a handpicked faux-erment would think it had the right to try this man...

And while we're sending dfolks to the World Court I can think of a few folks who the Bush administartion is buddied up with who need to go as well...

Yeah, if we're going to talk human rights let's 'round up all the thugs...

Bobert

p.s. Sorry to call GUEST a "134" year old girl... That was 'spose to come out "13" year old girl... nd, BTW, don't confuse anti-war with pacifist... Yeah, fir the most part I am a very peacefull person but if you attack me or my family, I'm going to defend myself... And you, as well as other cowardly GUEST, as right good on the attackin' part...


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 05:20 PM

ramsey clark is going to lose this case and will go down in history as a traitorous american. Saddam is going to be executed and will be in hell forever.

bobert, however will find new heroes of this type.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 05:54 PM

Well, if Saddam is convicted, his conviction will be slightly more credible because a former US Attorney General defended him--Those who have been listing his former defendents may not have noticed it, but he didn't get many of them off, did he?

Be that as it may, most mornings, and on CSPAN, no less, Don Imus shares the view that Saddam is the only one who can run Iraq--and it may be true. Iraq , as a country, never quite worked out, still Saddam showed up. He was the tough, do what you gotta do to whip em' into line kind of leader that folks like Crowbar, and the Bush clan, love--

I never liked Saddam, even when Saddamites like the Bushes and Rumsfeld were supporting him. The thing is, Iraq was a mess when he came along, and he created order. and it is a mess now--so the math is simple, even for Bush--


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,13 year old girl
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 10:49 PM

Bobert what is yer point? All I read is more Bobertisims. Are you a pundit or a knowledegable person?

You are on the side of Slobodan Milosevic and Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman if you defend Ramsey Clark. Has the world court been able to convict Slobodan Milosevic? what good is the world court? They are as effective as the UN.

I am glad Bush rejected the world court it shows leadership instead of a spineless popularity contest mentality.

I am also glad Bush did not sing the Kyoto accord. WHy should America be shackeled when Red China was not required to sign?

Why sign an agreement to use only high test when your competitors can buy regular and see how long your cab company lasts.

Now beat me up with some facts. Who else wouldn't sign the Kyoto accord and who else rejects the world court? Your hero Kerry? Maybe you should read up on it here and absorb some of the facts you are so lacking: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0806-05.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 11:10 PM

Ahhhh, 'cause signin' on with the Kyoto and the World Court was the right thing to do...

And, no, Kerry is nuthin' but another corporate shill, just like yer hero, 12 year old girl...

I'm gettin' a little sick and tired of corporate shills... Uswed to be that legislation was written by congressfolks and their staffs... No more, its lobbiests...

There are some 50,000 lobbiests in the Washington, D.C. area, all living in million dollar McMansions, 13. You do the math here...

Is this the democracy that you thought Thomas Jefferson had in mind???

If so, in less than 300 words of yer own, please explain...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,Teacher
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 11:42 PM

Guest, 13 year old girl, It's a week night and you should be doing your homework rather than spending your time on the internet arguing politics with a bunch of hopeless old farts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,13 year old girl
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:21 AM

No Bobert, this is not the democracy TJ had in mind.

The world is quite a bit different now and I don't think he could have envisioned modern comminucations and technology any more than you can envision the state of art in communications and technology 200 years from now.

In 200 years what will democracy be like?

Personally I think the Constitution needs to be updated without the influnce of lawyers, lobbyists and politicians wanting to be re-elected.

Somehow Corporations have become entitled to the same rights as living human beings. Terrorists and illegal emmigrants have become entitled to the same benefits and rights as American taxpaying citizens. Liberals even want to allow them to vote so they will vote for them.

Now what would TJ think of that situation?


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 09:53 PM

It's real nice to see bobert catch the shit he is getting on this thread.

Real nice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 10:29 PM

Hmmmmm, MG????

I don't fell like I've cught any of it... Heck, I've delvered some but none in my cather's mit...

Yo, 13 year old girl,

First of all, sorry for the typo where I called you a 134 year old girl... Actually from reading yer post, I'd swear you weren't a day over 93...

But, not to worry, 'cause this ain't got nuthin to do with nuthin... Yeah, I'm sure you are 13...

Problem is that you seem to have "liberals" pigeon-holed into these nice cookie cutter people that all think exactly the same...

Sorry, 13, but you are very much mistaken. Hope this doesn't ruin yer entire Christmas...

First of all, what makes you think that "liberals" are all for every danged Hispanic who has crossed into the United States is like the "Second Coming"??? Where did you get that idea???

The way I see it is that the Boss Hog's of America, 13, are the ones who have been so happy to see all this cheap-ass labor... Yeah they are the ones who have benefited the most by cheap labor... Afterall, it's Boss Hog who loves cheap labor 'cause then he can hold a bat over the head of average American who's just trying to get by...

Like I understand that you see the world thru the eyes of a 13 year old girl but coule you, would you elaborate on just why6 liberals, who have been traditionally pro labor, would support a few million "scabs" coming in to bust up what ever our working class had going for them???

Then, when you are done with that little exercise, maybe you could ask yer mommy or daddy on just how much it is going to raise yer mommy and daddies taxes to provide for these "scabs" and their families???

Uncle Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: DougR
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 01:26 PM

Saddam will rise as high as the rope takes him.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Janie
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 05:00 PM

Just


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Janie
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 05:01 PM

beacause


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Janie
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 05:01 PM

its 100!


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Puff The Magic Dragon
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 05:25 PM

now its 101


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,zefto
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 07:35 PM

Saddam is in exactly the same spot that George Washington would have been in if the BRITISH had won the war of the American Revolution. Up shit creek. The best he can do is go out like Patrick Henry, with defiance, and secure his place forever in certain people's hearts as a martyred hero. He's a handy propaganda piece for both those who love him and those who hate him.

Remember this as you gloat over his present misfortunes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 09:26 PM

Using Saddam and Washington shows you for the troll you are. There is a difference. Washington did not seek to exterminate folks, and turned down the chance to be King of this new country. Instead of ridiculous statements why don't you try a little critical thinking. One needs only look at the motives of each man to know there is no parallel.

It is true that the victors write the history, but your comparison shows you to be not very bright.

I shouldn't post when I am in a bad mood.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 09:50 PM

Bobert I'm not really shor whut you iz on adbout. Just don go impyunin' them brave burds the chickenhawkz wud I saw a brave l'il felr un the teevee even do hez alil guy he wuz alluz tryina eat that loudmouf fogherd legwerd. so yoo jez wutchit 'cuz thad lilberd wil go afur you 'ni 'll root fer 'im Iw ill.

'N I think ol' Saddam iz wun ornry cuss but I think ol' Ramsy Yusuf CLark iz a goodun and wull hell;p wile we giv'im a fur trile 'n hangum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:04 PM

Y'know, what bothers me is the pretence of legality. If you wnt to say that Sadam is a sonofabitch and should be hanged, I have no real quarrel with that. But don't try to make it look like a legitimate trial. Especially not like the kind we're supposed to have in the United States.

We pulled the same shit at Nurnberg. The validity of a legal process really doesn't have anything to do with whether the accused is guilty or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: GUEST,glowboy
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:06 PM

Yew jist think yur so smarte withe all the bad spillin so's no one kin harldly make owut whut yer asayin'. Ifn I wuz ez edicateed as yew I wuid drop some perls uv widsom hear too end uew wid be amaized and awesticken by my brillyance.

As fer George Warshington...he exterminated a whole lotta Injuns. That \s a fact. He kilt 'em, burnt 'em out, and cut down alla they fruti orchrards too. Drove them 6 Nations outta New York State. He wuz a mass murderer. Better beleeve it.

A corse them redskins wuilda dun the same to him too ifn they hed the chancet and et his heart and liver in the bargoon. So I calls it a standoff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:16 PM

The alleged 13 year old girl, can't be - can spell correctly!


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:24 PM

Hey, don't look at me... I din't write that stuff thou I agree wid it... Heck, I can spell better than glowboy GUEST most days of the week...

Welcome, glowboy... Watch out fir T-Shooter... He likes to shoot first and never ask or answer no questions...

Nice to have you on board...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:29 PM

I will buy that, Dick. I just think that the comparisons are ludicrous and a troll.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:35 PM

Yeah, the normal trolls are bad enough, but the Government paid ones are a real pain. God Help Us! They think the Mudcat is a seething mass of Pinko Terrorist Sympathisers, instead of a bunch of burnt out old Folkies!


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Terry K
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 06:03 AM

The only reason Saddam ever came to power was because Iraq was in parlous condition in the 1970s. Pretty much like now, in fact. Iraq is ready and waiting for its next deliverer to be hailed and applauded as Saddam was when he rescued Iraq all those years ago. So who's next?


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 06:05 AM

One thing's for sure. When the takeover comes it won't be a Sunni day for minorities.

Same old same old.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: DougR
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 12:28 PM

Shucks shoot, Big Mick, I was just about to write a message of support for your post, then you done backed down.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Saddam Will Rise Again
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 01:15 PM

animation of his resurrection

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/aas0.gif


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