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BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules

The Villan 24 Aug 05 - 05:47 AM
Bunnahabhain 24 Aug 05 - 06:54 AM
George Papavgeris 24 Aug 05 - 07:06 AM
Strollin' Johnny 24 Aug 05 - 07:13 AM
George Papavgeris 24 Aug 05 - 07:31 AM
The Villan 24 Aug 05 - 07:40 AM
George Papavgeris 24 Aug 05 - 07:54 AM
The Villan 24 Aug 05 - 08:10 AM
John MacKenzie 24 Aug 05 - 09:04 AM
Davetnova 24 Aug 05 - 09:23 AM
Paul Burke 24 Aug 05 - 09:36 AM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Aug 05 - 10:03 AM
John MacKenzie 24 Aug 05 - 11:43 AM
The Villan 24 Aug 05 - 12:08 PM
GUEST 24 Aug 05 - 12:53 PM
John MacKenzie 24 Aug 05 - 01:17 PM
number 6 24 Aug 05 - 01:49 PM
number 6 24 Aug 05 - 01:55 PM
Paul Burke 25 Aug 05 - 06:18 AM
John MacKenzie 25 Aug 05 - 07:19 AM
Paul Burke 25 Aug 05 - 08:22 AM
kendall 25 Aug 05 - 08:55 AM
GUEST 25 Aug 05 - 12:40 PM
John MacKenzie 25 Aug 05 - 03:47 PM
kendall 25 Aug 05 - 04:20 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Aug 05 - 04:11 AM
kendall 26 Aug 05 - 04:39 AM
Paco Rabanne 26 Aug 05 - 04:52 AM
John MacKenzie 26 Aug 05 - 06:31 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 01 Sep 05 - 11:50 AM
kendall 01 Sep 05 - 12:05 PM
GUEST 02 Sep 05 - 10:28 AM
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Subject: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules UK
From: The Villan
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 05:47 AM

Qoute
Charles Clarke issued the list of "unacceptable behaviour" by those said to indirectly threaten public order, national security, or the rule of law.

The grounds, drawn up after the 7 July London bombings, include provoking and glorifying terrorism.

But civil liberty groups fear deportees could be tortured in their homelands.
Unquote

Do these civil liberty groups think about the people they are killing in the UK or the hatred they are stirring up, plus the fact that they seem to be sponging off our country as well. I doubt it.

If somebody comes to this country and is prepared to live and honour our rules, thats fine by me. If not deport them.

We are too soft in this country and its time we took this sort of action, before it is too late.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 06:54 AM

We cannot treat different groups of extremists differently on grounds like that.
If they have a legal right to be in the country, they should be treated equally. Islamic fundementalists, animal rights extremists and Irish Sectarians have all set out to cause death and violent terror, and all should be treated equally. Locked up for a decent lenght of time, ie life meaning life seems fair.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 07:06 AM

I have no problem with any country seeking to protect itself from those who try to infiltrate it from outside with malicious intent.

But do these rules pass the "Mandela Test"? In other words, if those rules existed in the UK 20 years ago, would they have resulted in the deportation back to South Africa of Mandela supporters and dissidents against apartheid? If they would have resulted in such deportations, then they don't pass the test and are inadequate. At first read, it seems to me that the proposed rules are hard to implement fairly, and easy to abuse.

But worst of all, they don't address what we now know to be the real problem: Home-grown terrorism. Because where would you deport a British subject, born and raised in this country albeit possibly of "foreign" parentage? No country will accept them, because they are born British.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 07:13 AM

Hell George, Hell.
S:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 07:31 AM

What - England? Here's the chorus of my latest:

"   Twenty-first Century in England
    Eleventh hour and all is well...
Another town that's gone to Hell
Another worthless empty shell
And who'll be left to toll the bell
When this town has gone to Hell?"
(Anytown, Aug 2005)


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: The Villan
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 07:40 AM

George, quite honestly, if somebody comes to this country and is prepared to honour our rules, then as I said thats Ok by me. However if they start threatening us - sorry, send em back to where they came from.

Stroll on Johhny


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 07:54 AM

I agree 100%, Les. The country has a right (and an obligation) to protect itself from "incoming terrorism". However, all reports we get on 'telly indicate that fundamendalism is most rife among the 2nd generation, and that's where the biggest danger lies. These rules don't fix that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: The Villan
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 08:10 AM

But this is a start.

I do agree that we need to sort out the 2nd generation issue and quick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 09:04 AM

Why are there thousands of people in this country who's asylum claims have been rejected? Why when illegal immigrants arrive in this country do we not return them to the last country they were in before they arrived here, which I believe we are entitled to do under EEC rules? Why do we not enforce the rules we have instead of making new ones for people to ignore? You would think the fact that we are an island would make it easier to control the ingress of people, but it doesn't seem to work that way. I think nobody in their right mind would put up with a house guest who abused their hospitality in the way some people have abused that of the UK, talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
I am all in favour of providing succour for those in genuine danger in their home countries, but I have no sympathies with those who destroy all their documents in an effort to diguise their origins and thereby bypass the emigration rules of this or any other country.
No I am not anti anybody from anywhere, I do however believe in a level playing field, and the rule of law.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: Davetnova
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 09:23 AM

It seems slightly strange to me that those whose views disagree with our "culture of tolerance" are to be deported.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: Paul Burke
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 09:36 AM

"I am all in favour of providing succour for those in genuine danger in their home countries, but I have no sympathies with those who destroy all their documents in an effort to diguise their origins and thereby bypass the emigration rules"

It's in the nature of being a REAL asylum seeker, that you will probably lack a proper full set of documents. like passport, visas etc. Of course, not having them is no proof of genuineness.

We've been here many times before over asylum seekers- or "refuJews" as they were called before WWII. Many thousands were refused entry to this country, and forced to stay in Germany, or were stalled in other countries later occupied, to be slaughtered by the spiritual forebears of the BNP.

Personally, I'd rather not have the likes of the mad mullahs, but we've managed with Paisley long enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 10:03 AM

If there's evidence to justify deporting someone, because they are doing something illegal, they should be put on trial.

If they aren't doing anything illegal then deporting them to some country where people get tortured is not justified.

If they are doing something that isn't illegal but should be, then the right thing to do would be to bring in appropriate laws to make it illegal. If the problem is that the proof they are breaking the law can't be put in evidence, adjust the rules of evidence - so long as that doesn't just mean allowing the authorities to manufacture "proof" where it doesn't exist.
................................

Here's a story about a family due to be deported because their claim to asylum was turned down - Family again faces deportation after minister rejects appeal New Labour showing how they can be just as vicious bastards as any of their opponents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 11:43 AM

Nobody ever said Socialism was benevolent, it is after all the love child of the trade union movement which is by definitionan an association of bullies. Just look at the present Gate Gourmet dispute, where a trade union is trying to get workers who broke their own rules on striking without a ballot reinstated without suffering any penalties at all. They talk about the workers being opressed, I wonder how Gate Gourmet's management feel now?
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: The Villan
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 12:08 PM

"Personally, I'd rather not have the likes of the mad mullahs, but we've managed with Paisley long enough. "

So what you are implying then, is to allow these mad mullahs to stay whilst they slag us off and incite other people to go in the midst of innocent people and blow themselves up and any innocent party unlucky enough to be around at the time.

Not for me. Get them out the country now. No sympathy for them at all.

If it is to be believed in the papers, the atrocities are going to get worse even to the point of chemicals etc.

Get the buggers out now before it is too late.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 12:53 PM

It isn't tolerance which breeds terrorism, its racism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 01:17 PM

Tell that to the Sunnis busy blowing up Shi'ites in Iraq guest!
G..


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: number 6
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 01:49 PM

In regards to Islamic fanatics (living in Britain) voicing hatred and violence to the infidels in their resident country ... send them back to wherever they came from ... makes sense .... but I can't see how this will make things 'safer' ... they'll just be more vengeful, and determined to terrorise Britain and the rest of the infidel world ... don't tell me they won't communicate back to some extremest cells (or whatever they're called) and strategize ... plus their rhetoric will just recruit more fanatics back in GB.

Now, the question arises what do you do with the citizens born in the UK (and there are a good number of them) who are Islamic infidel hating terror/violence advocates?

The problem is a lot more complicated than the solution of deporting.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: number 6
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 01:55 PM

I'm in agreement with El Greko's post.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: Paul Burke
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 06:18 AM

Just look at the present Gate Gourmet dispute, where a trade union is trying to get workers who broke their own rules on striking without a ballot reinstated without suffering any penalties at all

Yow, do you ever read anything except the Daily Mail? Here are the facts:

The workers used to work for BA directly. BA wanted to save money by outsourcing the operation. They sold the catering facility to Gate Gourmet, who contracted with BA to provide airline 'meals' at a particular price. They got the job because the price was low enough to make it attractive to BA.

They then "suddenly" discovered that they can't deliver the service at that price. So in order to make production cheaper, they cut their workers' wages by 25%. Surprise, surprise, the workers, living in one of the world's most expensive cities, didn't like this.

The BA staff supported this. I think any halfway decent human being would have done.


Who precisely is bullying whom?


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 07:19 AM

Didn't say they were wrong to strike I said they were wrong to do so without a ballot, and given that fact, the union should not be backing them after they broke the rules of that union. It is a simple point of law and is incontrovertible.
I suppose the unlawful sympathy wildcat strike by baggage handlers that caused so much misery for so many people was justified too?
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: Paul Burke
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 08:22 AM

Don't quote the law at the oppressed. The law always has been a travesty, and it's to the shame of the present government that they have continued to uphold it. Solidarity is a virtue, not a crime. By the time they had a ballot, it would be about as relevant as a ballad, and the courts would probably forbid any action anyway.

It's a point of law in other countries that workers have to be accorded basic rights.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: kendall
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 08:55 AM

Seems to me that if I moved to another country and I was afraid of being tortured if I was deported to my home country that I would avoid any act of a criminal nature.
It certainly is not the responsibility of the government in my adopted land to protect me if I blow up buses and preach violence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 12:40 PM

Giok - We are not talking about Sunnis blowing up Shi'ites. We are talking about terrorists in Britain. Many believe that they have been allowed to take root there and flourish because of 'tolerance'.

I'm saying that it is the crimes committed by Britain and the lack of reporting regarding civilian deaths in Iraq which has led to the terrorist attacks in Britain. When the deaths of British soldiers are mourned but the murder of Muslim brothers and sisters in Iraq go unreported or are considered a victory, it can only be considered racist.

What has happened in Iraq in the last decade can only be considered genocide.

Put the shoe on the other foot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 03:47 PM

So two wrongs make right then??
This is what always pisses me off about people with an "agenda" anything will do to justify their misdeeds even if it is the misdeeds of another.
Killing is wrong why don't people get that, forget the labels that denote which way they pray it doesn't matter a shit. NOTHING gives anybody the right to kill!!
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: kendall
Date: 25 Aug 05 - 04:20 PM

Right on, Giok. Now, how do we stop it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 04:11 AM

The 'Mad Mullahs' and their supporters seem to think it is perfectly acceptable to demand their civil rights in this country. All the old arguments will be rolled out. Those rights include the freedom of speech. We are treading a very thin line when we start to decided who has the right to free speech etc. etc.

I wonder how I would go on if I demanded my 'rights' in some of the more exteme Moslem states? My right to criticise the government. My right to worhip how I choose? My right to get pissed when I want? ;-)

If the civil rights campaign want to flex their muscles let them do it where it would do most good. In the repressed states.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: kendall
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 04:39 AM

There are limits to freedom of speech. Almost 100 years ago our Supreme Court ruled that no one has the right to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater. Too many people don't know the difference between freedom and license.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 04:52 AM

Why take a chance? Deport them. We are too wet in this country. According to the BBC last week there are 380,000 illegal immigrants in England at present.How many of them are terrorists?


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Aug 05 - 06:31 AM

Surely all they need to do is form themselves into a trade union and thereby become exempt from the law of the land; officially that is rather than de facto.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:50 AM

I read in UK Newspaper last week that all the terorists were and i qoute="benefit scrounging asylum seekers".
[not sure waht day it was, but put that quote in your searcher, and it will find it].

wehn they get here, police etc should ask them="are you are terrorist, or are you thinking of been a terorist?"

if they say yes, then dont let them in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: kendall
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:05 PM

Forming a union makes you immune? What sort of rule is that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Clarke unveils deportation rules
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 10:28 AM

The rule of irony would seem to apply.....


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