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'The badlands of New Mexico

DigiTrad:
EL PASO
EL PRESO NUMERO 9
FELEENA (From El Paso)


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: El Paso: Why did he run? (37)
Lyr Req: El Paso parody (36)
Lyr Req: El Paso (Marty Robbins) (22)
Norteno version of 'El Paso' (5)
El Paso TX and Environs (6)
BS: COLIN POWELL'S EL PASO PARODY (6) (closed)


jacqui.c 02 Aug 05 - 07:02 PM
Peace 02 Aug 05 - 08:02 PM
freightdawg 02 Aug 05 - 08:59 PM
Peace 02 Aug 05 - 09:48 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Aug 05 - 09:50 PM
artbrooks 02 Aug 05 - 11:15 PM
freightdawg 03 Aug 05 - 12:30 AM
Les B 03 Aug 05 - 12:39 AM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 03 Aug 05 - 12:31 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Aug 05 - 12:55 PM
Deskjet 03 Aug 05 - 01:44 PM
freightdawg 03 Aug 05 - 02:28 PM
jacqui.c 03 Aug 05 - 04:56 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 03 Aug 05 - 07:10 PM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 03 Aug 05 - 07:54 PM
GUEST 03 Aug 05 - 08:18 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Aug 05 - 08:26 PM
GUEST 03 Aug 05 - 08:28 PM
GUEST 03 Aug 05 - 09:12 PM
Desert Dancer 03 Aug 05 - 09:24 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Aug 05 - 09:26 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 03 Aug 05 - 11:46 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Aug 05 - 12:58 AM
GUEST,NH Dave - new browser 04 Aug 05 - 01:46 AM
freightdawg 04 Aug 05 - 07:09 PM
Big Al Whittle 05 Aug 05 - 04:12 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Aug 05 - 01:31 PM
MissouriMud 05 Aug 05 - 01:44 PM
JohnInKansas 05 Aug 05 - 03:29 PM
MissouriMud 05 Aug 05 - 03:43 PM
JohnInKansas 05 Aug 05 - 03:49 PM
akenaton 05 Aug 05 - 04:56 PM
MissouriMud 05 Aug 05 - 05:38 PM
Biskit 05 Aug 05 - 06:08 PM
akenaton 05 Aug 05 - 06:20 PM
PoohBear 05 Aug 05 - 06:43 PM
Joybell 05 Aug 05 - 07:08 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Aug 05 - 07:34 PM
akenaton 05 Aug 05 - 07:52 PM
freightdawg 05 Aug 05 - 08:08 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Aug 05 - 09:05 PM
Joybell 05 Aug 05 - 09:13 PM
JohnInKansas 05 Aug 05 - 09:46 PM
freightdawg 05 Aug 05 - 09:55 PM
GUEST 05 Aug 05 - 10:02 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Aug 05 - 10:06 PM
GUEST 05 Aug 05 - 11:07 PM
JohnInKansas 05 Aug 05 - 11:23 PM
pdq 06 Aug 05 - 12:07 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Aug 05 - 12:59 AM
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Subject: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: jacqui.c
Date: 02 Aug 05 - 07:02 PM

My brother-in-law was talking about Marty Robbins' 'El Paso' today and wants to know where the Baldands of New Mexico are.

Anyone got any idea?


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Peace
Date: 02 Aug 05 - 08:02 PM

Map here.

Bisti Badlands--photos also


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: freightdawg
Date: 02 Aug 05 - 08:59 PM

Jacqui,

If you notice on Peace' map linked above, El Paso sits right on the "boot heel" of New Mexico, right on the border of the US and Mexico, barely in the state of Texas. (In fact, El Paso in the Mountain time zone, the rest of Texas is in the Central time zone.) In the song, the singer is musing about a previous life in El Paso as he flies above the badlands of New Mexico in a plane at 30,000 feet. Whether he was flying east or west that part of New Mexico is among the most barren of all the state. The lyrics would really make sense if he were flying east, as that part of the state resembles a moonscape in various places. There are some imposing mountain ranges, but in the area surrounding El Paso they are desert mountains with very little vegetation on them. Anything in the southern half of New Mexico is mostly barren land. The towns are generally small, and greatly separated. East of the Rio Grande and continuing into west Texas there is nothing much but oil development. As you move west of the Rio Grande there is a little more farming and ranching, but not much. As you move north from Albuquerque the climate changes dramatically and there is more vegetation, the mountains are heavily forested, and in the eastern plains there is quite a bit of farming and ranching. West of Albuquerque as you head into the desert that spans from New Mexico on into Arizona there is also very little development.

The Bisti badlands, the second link above, are in the northwest part of the state located on the Navajo Indian Nation. This part of the state truly does resemble a moonscape, as there is far less oil development (in the badlands itself) and virtually no vegetation or animal life. (I am sure there is some native animal life, but the land is extremely alkali). It is doubtful that the singer had this area in mind as the area is much smaller, and from 30,000 feet your eyes would be drawn to the beautiful mountain ranges just to the east and to the north of the Bisti badlands. The Bisti badlands have a beauty all of their own, and from there you can relatively quickly get to the 4 corners (the only place in the contiguous United States where four states share a common corner) and the painted desert, and further west into Arizona there are some gorgeous natural rock formations, and, of course, the Grand Canyon.

I don't mean to diss southern New Mexico, but I was born in Santa Fe and I am a real mountain goat. I fly over New Mexico extensively and I am constantly amazed at the beauty beneath me in all parts of the state (the lyrics of aforementioned song notwithstanding.)

A very proud native born New Mexican -

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Peace
Date: 02 Aug 05 - 09:48 PM

Yo, Freightdawg. These badlands I have been in. A nother pic.
Last Chance Saloon.

I have never been to New Mexico. However, it looks very beautiful--although I expect it can be a very harsh environment once one is away from towns and cities. Your love of your home state glows in your words, Freightdawg. Thank you for sharing the above post.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Aug 05 - 09:50 PM

I agree that it is doubtful that the Bisti Badlands (and Bisti Wilderness area) could be meant in the song. Too dang far from routes through El Paso. Both east and west of the Rio Grande at El Paso, there are stretches that look like badlands, especially from a plane.

As Freightdawg says, mountain ranges and forested areas (above 6000 feet) make the northwestern NM region interesting. A couple of years age, I spent a vacation around the Bisti Wilderness area, and over into the Navajo Nation. Very interesting country- and surprisingly, quite a bit of wildlife. Farmington is 40 miles north.
Q, also born in Santa Fe.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Aug 05 - 11:15 PM

El Mal Pais (literally, The Bad Lands), an old lava flow, are west of Albuquerque and east of Gallup. They straddle Interstate 40, but the bulk of them are south of it. El Malpais National Monument includes some of the most spectacular parts of the region.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: freightdawg
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 12:30 AM

Hey Peace,

I might not choose the word "harsh", although I would agree that there are areas that would not be very forgiving. After reading my above post it kind of sounds like there are no people in NM, and that is not true at all - there are many wonderful towns in NM, ranging in size from huge metropolitan to very small and quaint. Silver City, located in the south of NM, is a wonderful town, rich with the heritage of many different cultures. Northern NM seems to get most of the tourist ink, with Santa Fe and Taos being the two largest draws, but I also love Carlsbad (famous for the caverns) and Las Cruces (just north of El Paso, TX).

Thanks Art - I had heard the name of that lava flow but had completely spaced it out. The airport in Grants sits right on the very edge of a huge lava flow near the city.

By the way, there are two songs about El Paso that mention the badlands of New Mexico. One is "El Paso City", where the singer looks down on El Paso from the airplane and feels as if he had lived in another time and had a love in El Paso (sung, I believe, by Marty Robbins or Mel Tillis, and the other is "El Paso", a song about a gunfighter who kills a man in a Cantina over the love of a lovely young Mexican lass. I know the second song was recorded by Marty Robbins and a host of others. Funny that both should mention the "badlands of New Mexico." Its really not that bad down south!

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Les B
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 12:39 AM

In both "El Paso" and in the separate song "El Paso City" - both written by Marty Robbins - he references the New Mexico badlands.

I've never heard "El Paso City" (seen the words) and in it he talks about flying 30,000 feet above it. Really threw me for a loop, headwise, because I kept thinking - "there's no stinking aeroplane in the song 'El Paso' !!!" Now it all makes sense.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 12:31 PM

The El Paso City was written probably 30 years after his famous El Paso song.

In it the singer recalls the story of El Paso as if he had lived it in a previous life.

Great way to resurrect that wonderful song. Wonderful tribute to the earlier song.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 12:55 PM

"El Paso City" doesn't seem to be in Mudcat yet. Lyrics at Marty Robbins website, El Paso City

Too bad the Record Lady had to close down.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Deskjet
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 01:44 PM

Coincidentally I was listening today to Noel Shine sing his version of Norman Blake's Billy Gray. Now there's a song that conjures up images of the Badlands!


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: freightdawg
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 02:28 PM

George,

I can't tell you how many times I have heard those songs and have never connected the two! But thanks to your helpful pointer and Q's links you can read the whole story. Also, a song I had never heard is "Feleena," the story of the young girl who becomes the love interest of the two young cowboys and ultimately is the cause of both of their deaths. You can read the lyrics to that song listed just below the words to El Paso and El Paso City.

That really is a clever way to tie two songs together, and now it makes perfect sense why the singer would reference the same badlands of New Mexico. From reading all three songs together it is obvious that the singer (Marty Robbins) is describing the area east of Las Cruces and south and west of Carlsbad (real badlands, to be sure). In "Feleena" the cowboy returns the next day (something that is unclear in the first two songs) and a day's horseback ride would not put you very far out of El Paso.

Does anyone know of Marty Robbins connection to far west Texas and southern New Mexico?

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 04:56 PM

Thanks for the info guys - I've sent the link to the brother-in-law.

I knew that asking on the Mudcat would get the information - you lot are just SO good!


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 07:10 PM

Sorry to be a spoil sport - but New Mexico does not have any "HUGE METROPOLITAN CITIES its entire state population of 1,900,000 would just barely qulifiy it internationally and then it would equal that quaint Barvarian Village of Munich, Germany at 1,950,000

Albuquerque at 448,700 is New Mexico's ONLY city over 100,000.
Even Santa Fe can barely scrape together 62,000

Tokyo Japan 34,000,000
Mexico City Mexico 22,350,000
New York USA 21,800,000
Sao Paulo Brazil 20,000,000
Bombay India 19,400,000
Los Angeles USA 17,750,000
Cairo Egypt 15,250,000
Manila Philippines 14,550,000
Karachi Pakistan 13,800,000
Moscow Russia 13,650,000
London Great Britain 11,950,000
Istanbul Turkey 11,250,000
Beijing China 10,700,000

Even among metropolitan cities of the USA - New Mexico ranks as a piss-ant.

Chicago USA 9,700,000
Washington USA 8,050,000
San Francisco USA 7,200,000
Philadelphia USA 6,000,000
Detroit USA 5,750,000
Houston USA 5,300,000
Atlanta USA 5,000,000
Phoenix USA 3,800,000
Seattle USA 3,700,000
Minneapolis USA 3,350,000

SOURCE: http://www.citypopulation.de/World.html

According to the 1995 to 2000 data of the USA Census (published 2003) New Mexico has a NEGATIVE 17.8 migration rate (more people are leaving than are moving into the state. (http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/censr-12.pdf)

I believe Mr. Robbins was referring to the entire state of New Mexico, not a specific geographic region when he used the words "BAD-LANDS."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 07:54 PM

Thanks Freightdawg, you're quite welcome. Yes, Feleena is a nice little song.

I don't know Marty Robbins relationship to Texas or New Mexico, but he does sound authentic in his singing and writing of songs of the gunfighters


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 08:18 PM

Fuckhead is back. Oh, joyous times again.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 08:26 PM

Metropolitan Albuquerque is approx. 600,000. Metropolitan El Paso is about 700,000, but metropolitan El Paso-Juarez is approx. 2,000,000.
New Mexico population 1.9 million.
Negative migration? In 2000, population growth was expected to be 29% for New Mexico, followed by Hawai'i and the rest of the pack.

New Mexico 2003- 1.875 million (Hispanic 810,000; Anglo 818,000; native Indian 203,000; African-American 50,000; Hawaiian 4000.
New Mexico 2002- 1.852 million


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 08:28 PM

The guy's a fuckin' idiot. Don't waste spit on him.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 09:12 PM

Long Beach Population: 461522


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 09:24 PM

He may have overstated it, but I think Gargoyle's right that the use of "huge metropolitan area" is stretching it a bit for Albuquerque... 'course it's all relative. Albuquerque's huge for New Mexico! ;-)

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 09:26 PM

Summarizing, my point is that there are more that 15 people per square mile in New Mexico; grossly overpopulated, many of them brain-dead Guests.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 11:46 PM

Q...

Of course - the population of NM is growing!!!! The religion is fundamentalist Catholic.

However, if you would take the time and decency to consult the US govt statistical page referenced - you will discover that more YOUNG residents are leaving - than the number of YOUNG residents entering.

This is WILLFUL, intelligent migration - and has nothing to do with the "Fruit of the Womb" entrance into the locality.

Again, It is my opinion, Mr. Robbins was making reference to the entire countryside of New Mexico, and not a particular region.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Guest, Guest, Guest....I have been you so many times before - I can no longer tell if I am posting replies to myself.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 12:58 AM

You weren't the guest I meant, Gargoyle. But I should correct you on one point. They aren't all fundamentalist Catholic - many are fundamentalist born-again Protestants, especially in the southern part (where the vote was for Bush). And their reproductive rate is higher than that of the New Mexico Hispanic Catholics.
( I can't comment on the Hispanic illegals who are there to stay. Probably more than 10% of the population in New Mexico).

Of course, I prefer the badlands of New Mexico (and other western states and provinces) to the crowded warrens farther east. Terrible places!


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: GUEST,NH Dave - new browser
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 01:46 AM

Marty Robbins was born in Glendale, Arizone, which would be his connection to the South West.

    Dave


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: freightdawg
Date: 04 Aug 05 - 07:09 PM

Okay, for all the idiots and jerks and fools who cannot understand simple English, I will revise my earlier post to say that New Mexico has several inhabited locations.


Sheesh.


It is ridiculous to compare the population of Albuquerque to New York, Tokyo, Mexico City, LA or any of a thousand other cities AND I WASN'T TRYING TO, YOU IDIOTS.

Huge, and metropolitan, are relative terms that can only be defined in the context of the immediate discussion. I had in mind the contrast between a general METROPOLITAN AREA which would extend from Bernalillo and Rio Rancho to the north all the way to Los Lunas and Belen to the south to the "quaint" little villages and pueblos that give New Mexico so much of its flavor. For many residents of New Mexico, Albuquerque is the largest city they have ever seen, or ever will see. For them it is a huge metropolitan area. For anyone who travels very much at all the whole area is not much more than an average city. Its all in your perspective.

Read the damn post before you choose to spit out your pathetic little criticisms.

And thank you Becky, for even tongue in cheek you got exactly what I was trying to say.

And thanks, Dave - 'preciate the info.

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 04:12 AM

there was a film Badlands with martin sheen and sisssy spacek wasn't there - about the Starkweather case?
where did all that take place?


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 01:31 PM

Film was set in the Dakota badlands. www.imdb.com/title/tt0069762/


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: MissouriMud
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 01:44 PM

I think Marty lived in Arizona (except for a couple of years in the Navy)until his late twenties, when he moved to Nashville (in the early fifties) - so he had a pretty good feel for the southwest.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 03:29 PM

"El Paso" pops up in country music quite often, since it's one of a few border towns where western US and Mexican cultures mix - as it's imagined they did in the good ol' cowboy days; it's small enough that practically nobody's ever been there, so you don't have to be too fussy about getting the street intersections all just right; and it's easy to rhyme with at least a few words.

In other words, facts don't matter - everybody knows and recognizes that it's the classical generic "cowboy town." If you're into "country," you don't have to have been born there, or ever have lived there, to "be from El Paso."

This isn't meant to argue about Marty Robbins' background. He's country, he can be from El Paso if he wants to. It's a tradition.

The El Malpais National Monument cited above is possibly the area most often intended by references to "The Badlands," but there are quite a number of other areas that are known, at least locally, by the same name. Usually, the reference is to any area with virtually no vegetation, no water, and irregular land - canyons/arroyos - making travel difficult. In other words, where only desparate humans would go. In the context of the Robbins songs, it's probably the "generic meaning" intended, rather than a reference to a specific monument.

For those who haven't been there, it's probably impossible to conceive of how much/many "badlands" are in the US Southwest. (In the opinion of some, most of western Texas and Oklahoma, New Mexico, southern Arizona, all of Nevada, and a fair bit of California and eastern Washington and Oregon are "bad," in much of the last sense. but there may be some sarcasm in that suggestion.)

John


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: MissouriMud
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 03:43 PM

I think one of Marty's grandad's was a Texan - supposedly either a former Texas Ranger or a member of medicine show (or both or neither) - and filled him with stories about the good old days. Marty was also a huge Gene Autry fan as a youth, so he appears to have plenty to draw on in portaying the cowboy aspect of the southwest.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 03:49 PM

Some of the early Texas Rangers weren't that far removed from snake oil salesmen, and it seems a lot of them had some "side businesses," so maybe both...

John


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 04:56 PM

Almost wore out my copy of "Gunfighter ballads and trail songs", although,playing it now, the backings seem contrived and dated.

The songs are still magic....Big Iron ...Cool water..

"Ah'll sing you a song about Billy the Kid,
sing of some desperate deeds that he did .
Way out in New Mexico long long ago,
when a mans only chance was his old forty four".......Ake


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: MissouriMud
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 05:38 PM

Time has a way of messing with one's persepctive - We tend to think of the "wild west" as being ages ago, but for a kid like Marty growing up in Arizona in the late 1920's, the OK Corral, Billy the Kid, Geronimo and other similar events in Arizona and New Mexico during the 1880s were not too ancient history. Any one over 50 probably remembered living through the events personally - kind of like I remember Elvis, Sputnik and JFK (at least I think I do).


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Biskit
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 06:08 PM

FreightDawg,
Marty Robbins was born in 1925 (around Glendale, Az.) His Grandpa Bob (Texas Bob) was of course from Texas, Gene Autry was his hero (mine too) I'm from Tucson,Az. by the way and another lover of the Southwest. Don't get angry at the folks around here most are from Conneticut,or Ohio,or West-By-Gawd-Virginny or Europe, and places like that, they're not really idiots, they're,....well, different.
Peace! Through Understanding
~Biskit~


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 06:20 PM

"Got a hundred and sixty acres in the valley,
got a hundred and sixty million stars above.
Ah've got an ole paint hoss,
and a guy who's boss.
On the hundred and sixty acres that I love".



"Goodbye old paint, I'm a leavin' Cheyenne,
I'm a leavin' Cheyenne and I'm off to Montana
Goodbye ole paint I'm a leavin' Cheyenne".

Magic...


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: PoohBear
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 06:43 PM

Yeah me an' Billy the Kid
Ain't never got along
Didn't like the way he tied his shoes
And wore his gun all wrong
We had the same girlfriend
And he never forgot it
She had a cute little chihuahua
'Til one day he up and shot it
He gave her silver
Paid her hotel bills
But it's me that she loved
Said she always will
(Pat Greene)


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Joybell
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 07:08 PM

We just spent several weeks exploring the "badlands" areas in New Mexico. My favourite places on Earth. I'm particularly drawn to the El Malpais lava flow East of Albuquerque. Just had to add my bit here. Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 07:34 PM

Ella Jenkins, "Bad Man from the Badlands," a children's song.
Anyone have all the words? On Folkways.

Then the Damon Leigh song, same title:

Though you might not tell a good man
By the color of his hat
If you've got to track a bad man
Where he's from is where he's at.

Naow ain't them words sumthin?

The lyrics(?) at Bad Man


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 07:52 PM

"to the town of Alafreeno?? rode a stranger one fine day,
hardly spoke to folks around him didn't have too much to say.
No one dared to ask his business no one dared to make a slip,
for the stranger there among them had a big iron on his hip.


Now the stranger started talkin' made it plain t'folks around,
was an Arizona Ranger wouldn't be too long in town.
He was here to take an outlaw back alive or maybe dead,
and he said it didn't matter he was after "Texas Red"


Still makes the blood run cold ...Don't it...Ake


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: freightdawg
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 08:08 PM

Ake,

Although my ears may not be what they once were (or what I thought they once were) I believe the name of the town is Agua Fria (or Frio)- Spanish for "cold water." The "gu" is pronounced as an english "w".

There is a town in northern NM by the name of Ojo Caliente - "hot springs", and undoubtedly somewhere in the southwest there would be the opposite. About a block over from the house where I grew up in Santa Fe was a street named Agua Fria. Can't find the missus' travel maps but I think there is a little town in northern NM by the same name, although I doubt it would be the source of the town of the song - just a nice sounding Spanish town.

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 09:05 PM

The Robbins song is "Big Iron."
Agua Fria.
Posted in thread 43122 (scroll down): Bad Man Ballads

Also tabs here: Big Iron


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Joybell
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 09:13 PM

Oops! vague directions. If you want to visit the other El Malpais (the badlands) you have to go way South, as well as East of Albuquerque. It's near Carrizozo, South East of Socorro. Worth the trip. Amazing wild country without many tourists. Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 09:46 PM

Been through, or passed close to, most of those places. You guys are making me really thirsty. I think I'll have a beer (although when you're there, a plain old bucket of cool water is what you want).

John


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: freightdawg
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 09:55 PM

Would the Arizona ranger be in Texas after a villain who committed a crime in Arizona, or would 'Texas Red' be in Arizona trying to flee some nefarious past in Texas, or would they both meet up in New Mexico (half-way?) to settle a score?

Really a great, great gunfighter ballad.

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 10:02 PM

Agua Fria



Once a small separate community, now engulfed by the huge METROPOLISE of Sante Fe just kattywumpus to Interstate 25.



Also, a river/stream on the UU Bar Ranch in Northern N.M.



It all seems to support Gargoyle's position that all of New Mexico is probably considered BADLANDS to a Texan.r4


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 10:06 PM

Malpais in New Mexico have an association with a series of lava flows. The Malpais visited by Joybell near Carrizozo has the White Mountain Wilderness and the Lincoln National Forest to the east. Many points of interest near here, including the mountain resort of Cloudcroft and the Mescalero Apache Indian Reservation.
El Malpais National Monument, between Albuquerque and Gallup (old Route 66), near Acoma Pueblo and the town of Grants, has some of the youngest flows, one dated by the Geological Survey at between 500 and 1000 years and looking as recent as some on the island of Hawai'i. The Acomans have stories about some of their fields being inundated by the lava; they were already established at Acoma when that eruption occurred.
Both areas have interesting plant and animal life. Badlands to some, but attractive and interesting to many.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 11:07 PM

To native tribes in New Mexico (Navajo/Zuni) the word Apache is Zuni and in Zuni means enemy and likewside for Navjo.

Still another reason to consider NM as Bad-Lands


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Aug 05 - 11:23 PM

It should also be remembered that "Oklahoma" might refer to the Oklahoma Territory, rather than to the recently partitioned State of Oklahoma, and the Texas Territory could have produced a state of some significance if some of it hadn't been lopped off for statehood.

Some of our current states haven't been around as such for long enough to have a very good idea of who they are yet, although with the recent lack of history classes most of them don't know who they were either. The "wild west" era overlaps with a lot of changing identities for real estate, and although commonly associated with the brief period of the cattle drives, there was also a pretty "wild west" for the gold rush(es) and a few silver rushes, etc. Most of the "land rushes," where large tracts were opened up to homesteaders, were well before modern state boundaries were decided.

While none of my relatives spoke about it, I've met one or two old-timers who claimed to remember open range cattle drives, although their memories were (shortly?) after Oklahoma and Kansas became states. There are still lots of places where you can see a "roundup" much like the old ones, but they drive the herd to market in large trucks, usually. Cattle rustlers are still out and about (with large trucks), but they get "touchy" about it if you shoot them now.

John


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: pdq
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 12:07 AM

Towns named Agua Fria (meaning "cold water") were quite common in the old West.

The one mentioned near Santa Fe, New Mexico, is not likely the one Marty Robbins had in mind when he
wrote the song "Big Iron".

There is an Agua Fria National Monument a bit north of Phoenix and much closer to Glendale AZ, his birthplace.
Remember, it was an Arizona ranger who "wouldn't be that long in town".

I favor the one just west of Mariposa, California. It had tens of thousands of Gold Rush miners by the early 1850s,
then started to disappear. All you will find there now is a brass historical monument and some beautiful silence.

Marty Robbins' versions of his own songs usually stand the test of time, but "Big Iron" was out done by Bob Weir of
the Grateful Dead, although it was as a guest with the group Kingfish. A great recording with near-perfect guitar
backing by Robbie Hoddinott.


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Subject: RE: 'The badlands of New Mexico
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 12:59 AM

'Anaasází, not Apache, must be the word guest is referring to; a Navajo word meaning alien enemy, or ancestor of the aliens.

The early ethnographers applied the name, as Anasazi, to the people who left the many ruined structures in the Four Corners area; the ancestral Puebloans. The Navajo called them that, the ethnographers took it, and it has stuck although it is now known to be inappropriate.

Chíshí (implies tall) and Beehai are Navajo names for two groups of Apaches (Chiricahua and Jicarilla resp.); the name for another (White Mt.) can't be spelled with normal characters. Naashgalí is applied to the Mescalero group.

Naasht'ázhí is the Navajo name for Zuni. It means black-streaked, for the black tattoos they once had (now they use removable charcoal). The Zuni, of course, are descended from the Anasazi.

Both the Zuni and the Navajo now use the term Anasazi for the prehistoric Puebloans of the Four Corners area, although old meanings persist in stories and jokes.

Settled farming groups such as the Zuni would consider the Apaches, and the Navajo, who raided them, as enemies and the names of the raiders would become equivalent to enemy. I don't have a Zuni dictionary, so I can't give the terms in their language.


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