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BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???

GUEST,TIA 27 Jul 05 - 06:01 PM
jpk 27 Jul 05 - 05:14 PM
Don Firth 27 Jul 05 - 12:17 PM
Bobert 27 Jul 05 - 07:53 AM
Ebbie 27 Jul 05 - 02:01 AM
Amos 27 Jul 05 - 01:17 AM
DougR 27 Jul 05 - 01:03 AM
GUEST,Kael Rove 27 Jul 05 - 12:19 AM
dianavan 26 Jul 05 - 11:18 PM
number 6 26 Jul 05 - 10:51 PM
Azizi 26 Jul 05 - 10:12 PM
Bobert 26 Jul 05 - 09:50 PM
GUEST,Karl Rove 26 Jul 05 - 01:03 AM
number 6 25 Jul 05 - 11:54 PM
Greg F. 25 Jul 05 - 11:34 PM
Don Firth 25 Jul 05 - 10:56 PM
Bobert 25 Jul 05 - 10:41 PM
Don Firth 25 Jul 05 - 10:16 PM
Ebbie 25 Jul 05 - 10:09 PM
CarolC 25 Jul 05 - 09:16 PM
Bobert 25 Jul 05 - 09:01 PM
Ebbie 25 Jul 05 - 06:25 PM
jpk 25 Jul 05 - 06:06 PM
Bobert 24 Jul 05 - 09:33 PM
Frankham 24 Jul 05 - 09:58 AM
Bobert 24 Jul 05 - 07:44 AM
Ebbie 24 Jul 05 - 04:36 AM
beardedbruce 24 Jul 05 - 03:55 AM
Bobert 23 Jul 05 - 10:30 PM
Peace 23 Jul 05 - 06:01 PM
Ebbie 23 Jul 05 - 05:59 PM
jpk 23 Jul 05 - 05:18 PM
Frankham 23 Jul 05 - 03:43 PM
GUEST,Ron Davies 22 Jul 05 - 10:57 PM
Bobert 22 Jul 05 - 10:17 PM
Ebbie 22 Jul 05 - 10:04 PM
Don Firth 22 Jul 05 - 09:39 PM
Bobert 22 Jul 05 - 09:20 PM
Ebbie 22 Jul 05 - 08:58 PM
dianavan 22 Jul 05 - 08:01 PM
dianavan 22 Jul 05 - 07:59 PM
DougR 22 Jul 05 - 07:59 PM
Ebbie 22 Jul 05 - 06:01 PM
jpk 22 Jul 05 - 05:52 PM
Ebbie 22 Jul 05 - 05:49 PM
GUEST,TIA 22 Jul 05 - 05:35 PM
jpk 22 Jul 05 - 05:14 PM
Azizi 22 Jul 05 - 02:06 PM
Amos 22 Jul 05 - 01:21 PM
Azizi 22 Jul 05 - 01:16 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 06:01 PM

deflect, deflect, deflect


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: jpk
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 05:14 PM

maybe if rove had of gone to the right law school,he could have learned how to get away with it.maybe hill or bill could give him some pointers.and as far as getting hitched, maybe he's looking to find the big score, kinda like kerry[2 time winner in the money marriage racket]


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 12:17 PM

You mean conservative principles change when conditions change, Doug? I wonder how Goldwater would view the current batch of "conservatives" deficit spending in a manner that makes even the most hard-charging "tax-and-spend" liberal turn pale. Or start wars of empire. Or compromise civil liberties. Or snoop into people's bedrooms.

That's not conservatism as I understand it.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 07:53 AM

I was wonderin' why things have been so peaceful of late.... Now I got it figgured out... Waaaay Back Dougie been outta town...

Ahhhh, yo Dougie... Just how do Karl Rove's lies make progressive thinking people pessimists, anyway? That's kinda a giant leap of logic fir this ol' hillbilly... Even hurt the Wes Ginny Slide Rule's head...

But good to see yer illogical, yet always the consumate Bush loyalist self, back...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 02:01 AM

Waaaay back and to the right. *G*

Welcome back, Doug. Where in Alaska did you go? If you were in Juneau, I'm going to be miffed- you don't call, you don't write...


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 01:17 AM

Wayyyyyy back!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: DougR
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 01:03 AM

I had some catching up to do as I've been in the cool, cool, State of Alaska. I'm back in the hot, hot, State of Arizona now, though, and ready to tackle the difficult questions posed by ole Bobert, Don, Ebbie, etc. My answer: 1964 is a long way behind us folks, and conservatisim hasn't changed that much, but the world has. One thing that never seems to change, though, is the pessimism of the liberals who profess to be progressives (sometimes I really think THEY think they are). It's good to be back!
DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Kael Rove
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 12:19 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: dianavan
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 11:18 PM

I think the reason he isn't married is because he probably has some rather large "trust" issues.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: number 6
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 10:51 PM

He's not denying because he did lie....

and he is smug,comfy and secure knowing there is nothing we can do about it.

... and yes he is fat. Fatter than his good buddy and pal Carl Novak.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Azizi
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 10:12 PM

I notice that Guest Karl Rove {26 Jul 05 - 01:03 AM} didn't deny that he is a big liar.

Hmmm...


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 09:50 PM

Ahhhhh, nice to live in world without mirrors.... Yer fat, get over it, ya' big fat liein' weisel....


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Karl Rove
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 01:03 AM

Ah'm not fat


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: number 6
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 11:54 PM

Is Karl Rove a big fat liar ...

yes .....

and there is nothing we can do about it.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 11:34 PM

That's OK- Rove's buddy Norquist looks a bit more like a villain. Rove's only one of many, anyway- The BuShites have a whole pantheon of these obnoxious little shits doing their dirty work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 10:56 PM

He's such a little man in so many ways. He looks like a cuddly little cherub and you want to just wrap an arm around his head and give him a noogie.

But you're right. That doesn't stop him from being a big, fat liar.

Machiavelli, at least, had the decency to look a bit villainous.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 10:41 PM

Hey, Don, that's like splittin' hairs here... You don't have to be all that big to be a "big fat liar".... All ya gotta do is, ahhhhh, lie as if you were bigger.... an' fatter.....

Everything is relative...

B:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 10:16 PM

Well, in answer to the question asked in the thread title, judging from photos I've seen of him, I'd say that Karl Rove is a little fat liar.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 10:09 PM

Hoo boy!


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 09:16 PM

Hey, Bobert's on to something there...

If they get rid of Rove, who's going to administer the "pretzels" when W doesn't behave?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 09:01 PM

Yeah, I unnerstand that Bush can be a fine feller to be around after a few, ahhhhhhh, pretzels....


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 06:25 PM

Nice thought, jpk, but it doesn't address the point. Politeness, good will and camaraderie are good but dialogue is important. Sitting with a cold one (Make mine Alaska Amber) is good only as far as it goes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: jpk
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 06:06 PM

ebbie,as far as disagreeing with me goes,go for it,at least we know we agree we can disagree.be willin ta bet that we could sit ta a cold one an probably get along fine,no letin it get under the skin.
have a nice day an god bless

maybe that is what the big boys need ta try,teeshirts an shorts with a cold bud[or whichever].


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 09:33 PM

Hmmmmm, Frank, are you insinuatin' that Bush is also a big fat liar and should be arrested fir treason????


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Frankham
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 09:58 AM

The crime has been committed but the defense rests with the authority of the White House. It's "traitorgate".

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 07:44 AM

Hey, the fact that Rove is downplaying the manner in which he outed out a CIA operative doesn't change the fact that he did it...

It don't matter if it was a casual remark or a serious remark. It don't matter if it happened at the beginnin', middle or end of a conversation. He did it. It doesn't matter if he named her personally since he named her thru husband's name. Or that's his story. But, story or not, in namin' her husband it don't take no rocker sergeon to follow the dots here. He did it.

This defense, if that's what one can call it, is so full of crap it's silly, because bottom, they admit he did it???

What am I missin' here other than why Novak, a Bushite with a typewriter, ain't in jail gettin' the cell all comfy fir his buddy, Fat Boy Karl...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 04:36 AM

Rove has made his statements, bb. By his own admissions, he DID talk about Valerie Plame. Novak hasn't said anything publicly. Yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 03:55 AM

Ebbie,

"I don't like the man but I'm willing to wait until the facts are on the table."


But only for Novak, and not Rove?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 10:30 PM

Well, well, well...

Seems that with the Senate havin' scheduled the hearing's on Bush's Supreme Court nominee fir September, if Bush thought that he would be taking the heat off Rove with the nomination.... it has backfired.

Rove is back on the front page of the Washington Post and New York Times... Hmmmmm? Maybe Bush actaully called the shots on this one himself rather tyhan let Rove call them? Get my drift???

Maybe Bush has figgured out that Rove has to go??? Hmmmmm? Tghin about it... Rove goes, or pretends to go, and Bush gats a claen slate... He can get up on his soapbox ans scream, "The Devil made me do it" and all will be forgiven??? Just like the little weizel did when he had a couple DUI's and a few too many lines of a suspiscious powdery substance up the ol' beezer???

Yeah, I can see it now... Bush becomes not only born again but born ***yet*** again... Maybe the masses will think he is the second coming and folks will wait in lines atthe White house gates to be healed of leperasy or, worse yet, being Democrats...

Hmmmmmmm?

Hmmmmmmm, part B????

Think about it...

(Meanwhile, unbeknownst to anyone, in a secret room unner the White House there is a certain little fat man pullin' levers...)

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 06:01 PM

And thank the Lord for that. They are a disgusting agency with agendas that have no commerce with democracy or the Constitution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 05:59 PM

jpk, Karl Rove is a top-ranked confidant and advisor to the President of the United States. On the other hand, it is Media's job to keep an eye on and report on what a country does. Very different functions, might you agree?

As for Robert Novak- because of the secret deal he has made with SOMEBODY, we don't yet know just what he has done. All we know for sure is that he is the one who first outed Valerie Plame. It may have been- probably was- irresponsible and if so, he'll have to pay a penalty for that. I don't like the man but I'm willing to wait until the facts are on the table.

Ad for how one feels about the job the CIA does, of course it depends "on the day and issue." The CIA is an agency. We are not required to give it our unquestioning love and devotion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: jpk
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 05:18 PM

lets see,nobody wants to have novaks head,or the publishers either.seems that they would be just as responsable as rove,hmmmm.
seems that the very defenders of the cia are the same ones that were beating them up over the iran contra bit[good guy/bad guy,depends on which day and issue i guess]
and you are siting the very people under scrutiney as to there ability,a rather one sided veiw.
and congressional hearing rarely ever bring the truth to lite.
also i am no great fan of rove or any of the rest of the life long politician or public [sic]servant[no such thing]


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Frankham
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 03:43 PM

Larry Johnson, Valerie Plame's classmate at the CIA is a registered Republican and gone on record as saying that he is ashamed of the GOP and their tactics.

It appears that the GOP is no longer conservative but proligate, spendthrift, impulsive, rash and irresponsible. Everything that the GOP has accused liberals and dems of having done, they do themselves. They lie, they smear and justify it by discrediting their "enemies". Their smear against Wilson is ongoing.

The actual smear tactic seems to be the standard OP (MO) of the GOP. Rove inherited it from Lee Atwater who used it to advantage during the Dukakis primary.

It may be that Rove and company have committed treason and it would be in the best interest of the US if they were investigated for this. Otherwise, the CIA is compromised. If not, this means that there can be no meaningful security for the US.

Bush has finally managed to alienate the CIA. Who will it be next?

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 10:57 PM

Oh, Rove and Bush are conservatives all right. But, as I pointed out earlier, the word is now spelled differently--either D-E-M-O G-O-G-U-E, in recognition of their mastery of the politics of hate and fear, or R-E-A-C-T-I-O-N-A-R-Y, as in their respect for the natural world and for science.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 10:17 PM

They first have to answer the questions that I posed to Dougie, Ebbie, before they are willing to step back from the "winner's circle" mindset and ask themselves, "Hey, what do I really believe???"

One thing about progressives is that we ain't got that winner's circle syndrome messin' with us so our core values stay purdy much unchanged, Dems, Repubs 'er Whatevers...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 10:04 PM

Last night I went to a political meeting- we're hoping that cells like this (gasp! Sounds awfully red) are forming all across the country.

The point was made that we are not dealing with Liberal versus Conservative here- it is Liberal versus Radical. We hope to get some Conservatives to join us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 09:39 PM

Doug, I'd like to recommend a book to you. I think you actually have read it because once you recommended it to me--but I read it already.

The Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater. Reread it and refresh your memory on what a conservative is.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 09:20 PM

And, BTW, Dougie... The tables have turned dramitically since 2000 and ***YOU*** are now the "LIBERAL".... And a mighty radical one at that....

I mean, let's examine the facts... You are for huge deficits. You are for using the US's military might to change governments that you don't like???? LIkie where exactly is the conservatism here, my friend???

Well, no whhere at all... That's where....

Maybe you'd like to talk a little bit about just waht being a conservative means to you??? I'm havin' a little trouble figuring you guys out...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 08:58 PM

It depends on whose pig is being gored, I guess. And somehow, DougR, you never squeal until it is your pig.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 08:01 PM

Go get 'em!


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 07:59 PM

James Marcinkowski, a former CIA case office and a former prosecutor testified:

" There is a very serious message here. Before you shine up your American flag lapel pin and affix your patriotism to your sleeve, think about what the impact your actions will have on the security of the American people. Think about whether your partisan obfuscation is creating confidence in the United States in general and the CIA in particular. If not, a true patriot would shut up.

Those who take pride in their political ability to divert the issue from the fundamental truth ought to be prepared to take their share of the responsibility for the continuing damage done to our national security.

When this unprecedented act first occurred, the president could have immediately demanded the resignation of all persons even tangentially involved. Or, at a minimum, he could have suspended the security clearances of these persons and placed them on administrative leave. Such methods are routine with police forces throughout the country. That would have at least sent the right message around the globe, that we take the security of those risking their lives on behalf of the United States seriously. Instead, we have flooded the foreign airwaves with two years of inaction, political rhetoric, ignorance, and partisan bickering. That's the wrong message. In doing so we have not lessened, but increased the threat to the security and safety of the people of the United States."


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: DougR
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 07:59 PM

Boy, for a lot of self-professed liberals, some of you are really blood thirsty! I guess it depends on whose blood is shed, right?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 06:01 PM

It appears that 'experts' don't agree with you, jpk. Unless you outrank them?

"WASHINGTON - Former U.S. intelligence officers criticized    President Bush on Friday for not disciplining Karl Rove in connection with the leak of the name of a CIA officer, saying Bush's lack of action has jeopardized national security.

"In a hearing held by Senate and House Democrats examining the implications of exposing Valerie Plame's identity, the former intelligence officers said Bush's silence has hampered efforts to recruit informants to help the United States fight the war on terror. Federal law forbids government officials from revealing the identity of an undercover intelligence officer.

"I wouldn't be here this morning if President Bush had done the one thing required of him as commander in chief — protect and defend the Constitution," said Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst. "The minute that Valerie Plame's identity was outed, he should have delivered a strict and strong message to his employees."

Sez the CIA


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: jpk
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 05:52 PM

who is saying anything about right or wrong,only pointing out items of possible intrest and interesting thoughts on matter.
also if you dig a little you will find that the cia figured her usefullness[what little there was]was shot when she first took up with wilson.
also take the whole post together,not just snippets of it,it is like a bible thumper taking only parts of book that support what he wants,but when you read the whole thing or a different part,it says something totaly different.
that has happened to this whole mole hill so far,plus to much finger pointing and whinning and not enough real questions being put forth.
like maybe lets start following all the money an see where it goes.
have a good day an god bless!


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 05:49 PM

I disagree with most of what you say there, jpk, including your repeated insinuations about Woodward's book coming out so quickly after Deep Throat outed himself. FWIW, Woodward didn't have to start from scratch- Deep Throat's identity was no secret to him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 05:35 PM

I see. It's okay to out an undercover CIA operative as long as they are only a minor player. Thank goodness the Whitehouse didn't out a biggie. Mighty patriotic of them I say. In fact, they deserve medals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: jpk
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 05:14 PM

the thing that gets me most is wilson on book,#1 it is not worth reading[i tried]#2without the leak bit for an ending[so to speak],it has nothing to say#3wilson was only a minor dept hack[unless you listen to him]#4mrs wilson also was only minor player.
how much money has revolved around this mess and the book,did wilson have a backseat involvement we don't know of.
kind of like the timing of woodwards book and deep throat comeing out.
also whats to be gained by rove telling cooper that it was ok to blab about it.
also is it possible that the one sitting in jail does not want to say she got it all from wilson??

it is possible.but whether it is or isn't,we may never know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 02:06 PM

Thanks, Amos.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 01:21 PM

Look upthread, guys:

"Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Rovegate - PM
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 06:50 AM

Truth or Consequences:

"ROVEGATE -- July 10, 2005 --Newsweek magazine is reporting on the contents of a July 11, 2003 email between reporter Matt Cooper and Time Washington bureau chief Michael Duffy that was handed over, along with other email and notes, to special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald. Although the email shows that Rove talked to Cooper about Ambassador Joe Wilson's wife, there is no mention of how columnist Robert Novak obtained the information on Brewster Jennings & Associates, the carve out brass plate firm that was used by Valerie Plame and her colleagues and which was rolled up as a result of the leak. Rove and his lawyer are trying to limit the spin to Rove "not knowing" Plame's name, let alone that she was a covert CIA agent. Yet Plame's association with a non-official cover (NOC), by default, means that she was covert, pure and simple. Brewster Jennings reportedly "suffered greatly" as a result of the disclosure, according to a knowledgeable source. Another source reported that at least one Brewster Jennings NOC operating in a hostile intelligence environment was executed by counter-intelligence agents as a result of the White House disclosure. Other B&JA assets were forced to abandon their ongoing operations to identify networks involved in weapons of mass destruction proliferation."


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 01:16 PM

Guest G,

I appreciate your persistence. However, with much respect, I'mma haveta do a Rove since I don't recall what my source was for that information. Maybe it was here, and maybe it was there {where ever "there" is}.

On second thought I'm not "doin a Rove" since I believe that Rove is lying BIG TIME.

Although I can recall what {as opposed to who} was my source for asserting that one or more secret agents died as a result of Plame's outing, I know that it was the online print media since I gave up watching television news a long time ago.

And, Guest G., I don't know about you, but it stands to reason to me that there could have been severe consequences to outing a secret agent and passing along information in super doober top secret memos {information that isn't even supposed to be shared with 'friendly international governments}. Included in those severe consequences might have been the Valarie Plame's death, the death of other people who could be tied to her, and the compromising of years of undercover activities.

And less we forget, thousands of people have died and been severely injured as a result of the Iraqui war, a war that -IMHO-was based on lies.

Sp Guest G, that's the best that I can do.

If you want more, paraphrasing the lyrics popularized by singer Eykah Badu, "you gotta call Tryone".


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