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BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???

Bobert 17 Oct 05 - 09:11 PM
DougR 17 Oct 05 - 04:31 PM
dianavan 16 Oct 05 - 04:32 PM
Bobert 30 Jul 05 - 09:43 PM
Amos 30 Jul 05 - 09:32 PM
Bobert 30 Jul 05 - 08:41 PM
jpk 30 Jul 05 - 04:30 PM
Bobert 30 Jul 05 - 09:02 AM
jpk 29 Jul 05 - 05:44 PM
TIA 29 Jul 05 - 05:38 PM
jpk 29 Jul 05 - 05:36 PM
TIA 29 Jul 05 - 05:31 PM
jpk 29 Jul 05 - 05:08 PM
Don Firth 29 Jul 05 - 04:58 PM
GUEST,Kim C 29 Jul 05 - 03:47 PM
beardedbruce 29 Jul 05 - 02:19 PM
beardedbruce 29 Jul 05 - 02:13 PM
Little Hawk 29 Jul 05 - 12:32 PM
Ebbie 29 Jul 05 - 12:10 PM
GUEST,G 29 Jul 05 - 10:31 AM
TIA 29 Jul 05 - 09:49 AM
GUEST,TIA 29 Jul 05 - 09:48 AM
GUEST 29 Jul 05 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,G 29 Jul 05 - 09:29 AM
GUEST,Alix graa parot 29 Jul 05 - 02:12 AM
LadyJean 29 Jul 05 - 01:31 AM
Bobert 28 Jul 05 - 11:12 PM
Amos 28 Jul 05 - 11:06 PM
beardedbruce 28 Jul 05 - 10:59 PM
beardedbruce 28 Jul 05 - 10:50 PM
Amos 28 Jul 05 - 10:48 PM
Bobert 28 Jul 05 - 10:37 PM
beardedbruce 28 Jul 05 - 10:13 PM
Azizi 28 Jul 05 - 10:13 PM
Azizi 28 Jul 05 - 10:06 PM
Bobert 28 Jul 05 - 09:47 PM
beardedbruce 28 Jul 05 - 09:47 PM
beardedbruce 28 Jul 05 - 09:11 PM
Bobert 28 Jul 05 - 08:59 PM
Azizi 28 Jul 05 - 08:44 PM
beardedbruce 28 Jul 05 - 08:07 PM
Azizi 28 Jul 05 - 07:39 PM
beardedbruce 28 Jul 05 - 07:10 PM
Azizi 28 Jul 05 - 05:19 PM
jpk 28 Jul 05 - 04:53 PM
GUEST,G 28 Jul 05 - 10:40 AM
GUEST 28 Jul 05 - 10:34 AM
beardedbruce 27 Jul 05 - 08:01 PM
Azizi 27 Jul 05 - 08:00 PM
number 6 27 Jul 05 - 07:54 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 09:11 PM

Well, dianavan, what we have here is the "perfect strom" 'cuase both "Scooter' Libby, Cheneey's Chief of Staff and Bush's, Karl Rove, will most likely both be indicted... Or should be!!!!

Both have fessed up to rattin' out Valare Plame to ***two*** different reporters...

Like what is that all about???

Like I said, the Republican Party, in spite of its large jerimandered redisdistrictin' might have misw=places a decimal point here or there in their quest to turn America into their little serfdom...

But, hey, inspite of the the recent revelation, it may be too late???

Being the eternal optomist, I hope and pray not...

No, I don't love the Dems either but these crooks gotta go...

Boberrt


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: DougR
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 04:31 PM

Well, Bobert, I do have to admit that he is at least half of that.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 04:32 PM

Looks like Libby is the one who leaked the name of Valerie Plame.

Libby will probably take the fall for Turdblossom.

I doubt if Libby acted independently. He is, after all, Rove's dog and it was an effort to take the heat off the administration and place the blame for faulty intelligence on the CIA.

From the NY Times:

"At that breakfast meeting, our conversation also turned to Mr. Wilson's wife. My notes contain a phrase inside parentheses: "Wife works at Winpac." Mr. Fitzgerald asked what that meant. Winpac stood for Weapons Intelligence, Non-Proliferation, and Arms Control, the name of a unit within the C.I.A. that, among other things, analyzes the spread of unconventional weapons.

I said I couldn't be certain whether I had known Ms. Plame's identity before this meeting, and I had no clear memory of the context of our conversation that resulted in this notation. But I told the grand jury that I believed that this was the first time I had heard that Mr. Wilson's wife worked for Winpac. In fact, I told the grand jury that when Mr. Libby indicated that Ms. Plame worked for Winpac, I assumed that she worked as an analyst, not as an undercover operative."


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 05 - 09:43 PM

'Bout time someone reminded the Bush-heads that their boy stinks and the further along we get into this second term the worser the stink gonna get... Like how amny scandals do we still have loomin' after Rovegate???? A bunch... You can put a fork in the Shrub... He's done!!!

Yeah, there are folks here who will still defend him... Guess what? They are done... Lie where is Teribus??? Can't show is Bush-head 'round here no more since everything that the anti-invasion folks said would happen has happened....

Bush is history....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 05 - 09:32 PM

Yo, Brother BObert!!! Get it SAYYYUDDD!!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 05 - 08:41 PM

Then find another thread... Simple... No one has a gun popinted at yer danged head... Go to sleep...

Yeah, yer "tired" post is just part of the overall defense of Rove in tryin' to run out the clock or bore people to sleep...

Hey, you probnably weren't tired when they were tryin' to impeach Slick Willie fir gettin' a little on the side but now that someone could have been killed as a result of a Bush-crook rattin' out a CIA yer tired....

Me too... Tired of the Bush folk dodgin' havin' to pay up in the "personal responsibility" department...

Like when have they ever admitted ot makin' a mistake? Never, that's when. They blame the Democarts... Yeah, guess what! Rovegate is just one of many, many scandals they have tried to keep in the closet... And guess what? The closet ain't big 'nuff fir this administartion to hide in any more... They have outgrown it and looks like someone gonna have to step up and say, "Ahhhhh, yeah, we messed up..."

The number one thing that we keep hearin' from folks in polls after polls is that they no longer trust Bush and his cronies to tell them the truth... The American people ain't half a dumb as Karl Rove owuld like them to be...

Fir y6ou Bush-heads, mark my words, just like I predicted exactly what has come tyo pass in Iraq: Yer man is damaged goods and will go down in history right next to Andrew Johnson as the worst president the country ever had... Mark my words....

Yeah, he can run but he can't hide...

The truth is comin' in fast and furious and it dopn't smell too good...

Biobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: jpk
Date: 30 Jul 05 - 04:30 PM

tired


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 05 - 09:02 AM

No arguin' with a sick mind, so other than to again repudiate bb's unfounded charges that I am a bigot and a liar, I am going back to ignorin' bb. He is not worth my time...

Yeah, I am with Ebbie... I don't want folks running the country who are just "average folks" tho I don't consider Rove to be an "average folk" in any manner. It's all about *power* to him and has nuthin' to do with common sense policy issues that help anyonbe but the big cororate Bush campaign donor's interests... Might of fact, that is my main complaint regarding this administartion... Everywhere you look you see Boss Hog's hands in policy decisions... It's no wonder the countyr is in such a mess and isn't dealin' with it... Some folks say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" but KI would argue that it is *broke* and way to many folks are in denial... Poverty rates have increased every year since Bush came into office, our schools, especially in the cities, are crumbling, our infastructure is being totally ignored and BUsh and his gang of thugs used lies and half truths to get the country into a useless war...

Like where exactly is the good news?

Oh, and yeah, back to the subject of the thread... Runnin' this crime ring is a power hungry fat man: Karl Rove...

Yeah, someone pointed out the Newsweek incident whetre Rove engineered a frontal assalt on a magazine with charges that the Koran had not been dissed... Yeah, that scared the heck outtta Newsweek and evryone else in thwe media. Yeah, that was the big story... Problem is that, just as lieing about torture at so called detention facilities in Iraq and Cuba, the assalt against Newsweek turned out to be just another homecooked Rove lie...

Can anyone deny that now that evidence is in that the Koran was dissed???

Oh yeah, the Bush apologists will somehow blame the Democrats for that lie... Just like they always do...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: jpk
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 05:44 PM

close but not close


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: TIA
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 05:38 PM

This explains it all


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: jpk
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 05:36 PM

i still would like to know how much wilson is getting paid for all this.[by one side or the other/s,or maybe both/all]


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: TIA
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 05:31 PM

I don't think anyone is making the Wilson's out to be saints. But there are those who are coming to their defense against the right-wing hyper-drive smear machine. That machine sure didn't wait for the whole truth to come out before it went after them. And now, countering the spin and lies is to be considered hasty?


Support the Troops!

but

Out the Operatives!


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: jpk
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 05:08 PM

you know, after going thru this thread,you would start to get the idea that the church had made the wilsons out to be saint's,and the great savior of this country.both with the highest honor.as to his crediabilty,he lied to a congressional hearing about how he came to be involved in the first place.
and azizi,you mentioned all the hits you got on gogol,how many are just made up gigo,and how many might have a shadow of truth to em.
seems that is what blogging is about. bullhut logs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 04:58 PM

Right, Kim. When a discussion goes totally irrational and turns into a dung-fling, it becomes a waste of time.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Kim C
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 03:47 PM

I just remembered why I don't come around here so often anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 02:19 PM

excuse me. It should have been:

I HAVE NOT CALLED YOU A RACIST- and your repetition of this lie is another example of your perverted atitude towards civilized discussion and inability to see reality when it is shown to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 02:13 PM

Bobert,

"And, just fir the record, ever heer of transferance? That's where folks with pathoplogical issues pick out someone else and try to pin their own problems on someone else..."

So that is what yopu have been doing here the last few years?




"You need some serious counselin', my friend, not me..."

I have made no threats to others for disagreeing with my viewpoint- YOU have. If that means I need counseling, sobeit.




"And I'm speakng as a former social worker who worked in "Adult Services" for many years in Richmond, Va. working with folks who I would pick up from Central State Hospital in Petersburg, Va, the state mental hospital, and get situated back into society..."

And I am speaking as a human being, a former AISSR, COMSEC custodian and FSO. So what?




"You are a a psyhopath as far as I can see... "

Than you are blind as well as a liar.




"Yeah, you can continue to try to intimidate me but guess what??? I've dealt with murderers, rapist, arsonist. petty thieves, drug addict and just plain ol' messed up people so don't even think you can mess over me, pal... I done worked in the jail house as a GED teacher. I done worked at a half way house in the baddest part of Richmond... If you think yer gonna put no scare into me you is seriously delussioned..."

If you find the fact that someone might disagree with you, and point out when you tell lies about them intimidating, YOU have a lot more problems than any "scare" I might give you.




"I ain't no liar... I ain't no bigot... and I sho nuff ain't no racist..."

Someone who intentionally tells falsehoods, even after they have been informed the truth,IS a liar. You certainly qualify.

Someone who decides the facts based on their own goals and viewpoint, rather than what happened is a bigot. You qualify there, as well.

I HAVE NOT CALLED YOU A RACIST- and your repitition of this lie is another example of your perverted atitude towards civilized discussion.




"And if you keep insinuatin' that I am, I will consider your transgressions to be not only pathological but grounds for defense... And when I mean defense, when dealin' with pathological folks, I mean just what I said..."


Is this another threat, or just an declaration that I do not have the right of free speech in disagreeing with you?




"And I know exactly what that entails... No brag, just fact..."

And what exactly are you threateniong me with now?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 12:32 PM

Well said, Ebbie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 12:10 PM

I appreciate your efforts to be reasonable, Guest G, but this struck me: "I attributed some to the pulling together after 9/11 when we were made more aware of our vulnerability. AND, I think the fact we have a more average citizen in the White House, like him or not, as opposed to a polished politician has a small effect, perhaps not recognized by many."

I dated a German for a number of years and do you know that that is precisely what he said of Hitler? He said that before Hitler, one's bosses were elitest and would not have thought of fraternizing with their men. After Hitler came on, the bosses would come into the bars, sit down with the men, buy an occasional round.

Frankly, I don't want "a more average citizen in the White House". I want someone who is well read and who has a solid grasp of world affairs (and simple geography!) and insight into the interplay of themes, national interests, historical pressures and actions. I want someone who doesn't rely on others to do his/her homework for him/her but surrounds him or herself with bright advisors who have that same understanding. I want someone who has some concept of cause and effect and the many anomolies that are not easily tracked. I want someone who is 'moral'- and by that I do NOT refer to sexual immaturities but to qualities like fairness, concern and assistance for those who need help, compassion and understanding. I want someone in the White House who has no tolerance for thuggery.

I could go on and list what I do NOT want in a President but I fear that it would describe the current resident too clearly for some.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,G
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 10:31 AM

I am becoming aware of my inability to discerning who the "mindless idiots" really are. These are simply opinions based on the limited information available to all and does not denote one's ability to
be any more well informed than the next person.

Moveon.org, Buzzflash, etc., should no more be quoted as nonbiased sources amymore than National Review and Shaun Hannity, particularly Hannity.

Name calling is usually the result of not having a better idea or solution to a situation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: TIA
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 09:49 AM

and I keep losing my cookie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 09:48 AM

oops, sorry that was me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 09:47 AM

The "she wasn't covert" excuse is straight from the Republicanthugradioechochamberrepeatedbymindlessandroids machine. Here is the response by 11 non-partisan former CIA officers:

"These comments reveal an astonishing ignorance of the intelligence community and the role of cover. The fact is that there are thousands of U.S. intelligence officers who "work at a desk" in the Washington, D.C. area every day who are undercover. Some have official cover, and some have non-official cover. Both classes of cover must and should be protected."

full statement here

In fact, those with non-official cover are in great danger when they travel overseas because they cannot claim diplomatic immunity. They can (and have been) grabbed off the streets and executed.

I bet many of the people spouting this "she wasn't covert" thing sport Support The Troops ribbons on their bumpers.

Mindless idiots.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,G
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 09:29 AM

Geez - someone posted about getting this thread back on track.
Good suggestion. I do take exception to the comment of "keeping Americans at each other throats". Someone is hanging out in the wrong 'hood.

I travel fairly extensively and in the last several years have been semi-astounded at the rapport exhibited in airports, malls and even supermarkets. I think I have heard "excuse me", "you go ahead" and "let me help you with that" more in the past several years than in the past 20. I attributed some to the pulling together after 9/11 when we were made more aware of our vulnerability. AND, I think the fact we have a more average citizen in the White House, like him or not, as opposed to a polished politician has a small effect, perhaps not recognized by many.

Having been involved in probing a persons Psyche, I would find it impossible to determine a persons' mental stability based on a few posts made on any web page, be it an off-topic blues message board or one of the more professional mental health sites. The WWW is both a wonderful and a dismal source of information. Unless it is a substantiated source, i.e., Universities and Encycloypedias, take it with the proverbial grain of salt.

Remember Newsweek and their "Koran gate"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,Alix graa parot
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 02:12 AM

bobert beardbruce big bozos
peck rove to none


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: LadyJean
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 01:31 AM

From Move On.org
Karl Rove, the voice of treason.

Something I read about him in Newsweek seems to suggest that Turdblossom and George W. are well,,, a couple. Which would explain a whole lot.
Even if it isn't true, make sure you spread the story. Karl's been slandering people most of his life. It's high time he got a bit of his own.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 11:12 PM

Okay, BB, like why am I a bigot????

And, just fir the record, ever heer of transferance? That's where folks with pathoplogical issues pick out someone else and try to pin their own problems on someone else...

You need some serious counselin', my friend, not me...

And I'm speakng as a former social worker who worked in "Adult Services" for many years in Richmond, Va. working with folks who I would pick up from Central State Hospital in Petersburg, Va, the state mental hospital, and get situated back into society...

You are a a psyhopath as far as I can see...

Yeah, you can continue to try to intimidate me but guess what??? I've dealt with murderers, rapist, arsonist. petty thieves, drug addict and just plain ol' messed up people so don't even think you can mess over me, pal... I done worked in the jail house as a GED teacher. I done worked at a half way house in the baddest part of Richmond... If you think yer gonna put no scare into me you is seriously delussioned...

I ain't no liar... I ain't no bigot... and I sho nuff ain't no racist...

And if you keep insinuatin' that I am, I will consider your transgressions to be not only pathological but grounds for defense... And when I mean defense, when dealin' with pathological folks, I mean just what I said...

And I know exactly what that entails... No brag, just fact...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 11:06 PM

The classification of the information about her identity was current in the memo that Colin Powell carried on Air Force 1 -- it was a current memo and the information relating ot her was tagged SECRET. The fact that she was or was not currently active, covert or over, has no bearing on the fact that the information identifying her was currently flagged as classified information. Divulging information under that class is a violation.



A


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:59 PM

Amos,


"Rove is in violation of the National Security acts relating to classified data, "


If this is true, he should be tried. HOWEVER, the act in question talks about a 5 year time limit, and I understand that she was NOT covert in the last 8 years. Thus, the law was not broken. If the FACTS are otherwise, I am willing to listen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:50 PM

Bobert,

You ARE a liar.

I called you a bigot, not a racist. Try learning to read.

The subject is the FACTS of the matter, not the trial in Uber-mensch Bobert's so-called mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:48 PM

It looks mighty close to a fact that it was Rove who first revealed Valerie Plame's occupation to the press.

SInce this was classified information, Rove is in violation of the National Security acts relating to classified data, revealing of to hostile forces.

Including the press, the liberal establishment and al Qaeda, all of whom are hostile towards him for different reasons.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:37 PM

Hey, I've never said that Karl Rove should be fired fir this particular situation but have made no bonez 'bout the fact that I think America would be a lot better off without this little Napoleonic pit bull weizel in such a position to keep Americans divided... He's a one trick pony and the only game he wants to play is dirty friggin' tricks and keepin' American's at each others throats...

I resent this!!!

And I resent thast my hard earned tax dollars go to payin' his salary...

And I resent bb callin' me a liar 'er a racist...

And I resent bb tryin' yet again to divert attention away from the real subject here: Karl Rove's outin' out Valerie Plume...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:13 PM

Azizi,

As I stated before being personnaly attacked by Bobert, IF he commited a crime, he should be tried and IF found guilty punished. That is what I have said all along. The question becomes, what are the FACTS of the case, NOT what each side wants to prove. I am waiting for factual points to support what seem to be accusations based on the FACT that some do not like Rove. Hardly enough for me to lynch someone on. Unlike Bobert, who never met a personal attack against a conservative he didn't like, regardless of the facts of the matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:13 PM

I meant to say IMHO [In my humble opinion].

Sorry about that mistake. I haven't a clue what "INHO" means.

Maybe it means- "I'm not humble, opinions?"

[I was going to say that I wrote "INHO" on purpose to add a bit of comic relief to a thread that was becoming quite emotional tense..But I won't lie. I really didn't do it on purpose.]

But then again....



Positive vibrations,


Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:06 PM

INHO, this thread should not become "Beardedbruce vs Bobert" or "Bobert vs Beardedbruce".

Rove is the individual who is-for now-center stage in this national 'gate'.

And it seems to me that the actions that have occurred and may have occurred [and continue to occur??] are of the utmost importance to USA national security: using tainted information to promote a preemptive war; outing a covert agent whose husband wrote an editorial that spoke against the war; passing around a top secret memo; possible lying to the Grand Jury, and possible conspiracy to cover-up wrong doing.

Even if we [Mudcatters] can't "all get along", could we please try hard to stay on-topic in this thread?

And if you guys must carry on your personal dispute about who said what when about racism or whatever else that doesn't specifically refer to Rove and his buddies, perhaps it would be best if you do so by PMing each other.


This is just a suggestion of course....


Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 09:47 PM

Well, bb, maybe you'd like to review those disagreements you have with Bush... Seems every time I click on any thing you write it's in defense of Bush or one of his boys....

Yeah you can call me a liar all you want... That is your M.O., just as it it Karl R$ove and Bush's M.O. These folks don't cop to nuthin'... Thay always deflect thier misgivings onto someone else...

And just what are you threatenin' to inflict on me, bb???? Maybe you'd lie to refresh my memory as who called me a racist ans what my response was... Oh, please don't take take it out of context but if yer back into callin' me a racist and a liar then I sho nuff would like you to provide an in depth history of my postings that support your observations...

That's what fairness is all about...

As fir the crime committed???? See Los Angeles v. O.J. Simpson...

Hey, when ya get enough lawyers together and ya got a corrupted administration that lied to the American people about why it had, no, make that HAD, to invade Iraq, hey, ....... "If it don't fit, ya' gotta aquitt...."

Ain't got one thing to do with right or wrong...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 09:47 PM

and for those counting...


Bobert's 3rd lie, because of his attacking people rather than discussing the facts-



"Me and Satan ain't been on good terms of late... "


IMO, Bobert, you are on excellent terms.

Try not to burn a cross on my lawn...


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 09:11 PM

Bobert,


"No use arguin' with BB, MiziAzizi... He is hooked into the Bush propagand machine and will defend Bush and all his croonies fir any offensse that they have committed..."

I have said that if he commited a crime he should be tried- Bobart lie #1




"All you are gettin' is what Rush Limbaugh or some other right winged Bushite apologist has told him to say..."

I have stated that I do not listen to Rush or any other political shit. Bobert lie #2



"He is a "True Believer" at the highest level..."

I have stated a number of disagreements I have with the Bush administration policy,- Bobert lie #4.



"See, the big twist now is now "Criminal offense" rather than just the act of outing of Valerie Plume... Bush has changed his story just the way he has changed his story about why the US invaded Iraq... Rove admits he did it bit then he says it was done casually, at the end of phone converstaion... Like what kind of defense is that???"


Was a crime commited, or not? I don't have the secret information about guilt that you seem to.



"More lies form the Bushites..."

As I have stated, by your definition I am not a Bushite, and if you continue to call me one I will inflict upon you the threats that YOU have made against those you think have called you a racist.


But I WILL call you a bigot, in matters pertaining to anyone you think of a a conservative.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 08:59 PM

No use arguin' with BB, MiziAzizi... He is hooked into the Bush propagand machine and will defend Bush and all his croonies fir any offensse that they have committed...

All you are gettin' is what Rush Limbaugh or some other right winged Bushite apologist has told him to say...

He is a "True Believer" at the highest level...

See, the big twist now is now "Criminal offense" rather than just the act of outing of Valerie Plume... Bush has changed his story just the way he has changed his story about why the US invaded Iraq... Rove admits he did it bit then he says it was done casually, at the end of phone converstaion... Like what kind of defense is that???

But that's what we have...

More lies form the Bushites...

(Yawn)

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 08:44 PM

As to the question, was Valerie Plame an undercover agent at the time of her 'outing', apparently the CIA says "yes".

See this article:

The Bush Administration Adopts a Worse-than-Nixonian Tactic:


The Deadly Serious Crime Of Naming CIA Operatives






By JOHN W. DEAN



On July 14, in his syndicated column, Chicago Sun-Times journalist Robert Novak reported that Valerie Plame Wilson - the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, and mother of three-year-old twins - was a covert CIA agent. (She had been known to her friends as an "energy analyst at a private firm.")

Why was Novak able to learn this highly secret information? It turns out that he didn't have to dig for it. Rather, he has said, the "two senior Administration officials" he had cited as sources sought him out, eager to let him know. And in journalism, that phrase is a term of art reserved for a vice president, cabinet officers, and top White House officials.

On July 17, Time magazine published the same story, attributing it to "government officials." And on July 22, Newsday's Washington Bureau confirmed "that Valerie Plame ... works at the agency [CIA] on weapons of mass destruction issues in an undercover capacity." More specifically, according to a "senior intelligence official," Newsday reported, she worked in the "Directorate of Operations [as an] undercover officer."

In other words, Wilson is/was a spy involved in the clandestine collection of foreign intelligence, covert operations and espionage. She is/was part of a elite corps, the best and brightest, and among those willing to take great risk for their country. Now she has herself been placed at great - and needless - risk.

Why is the Administration so avidly leaking this information? The answer is clear. Former ambassador Wilson is famous, lately, for telling the truth about the Bush Administration's bogus claim that Niger uranium had gone to Saddam Hussein. And the Bush Administration is punishing Wilson by targeting his wife. It is also sending a message to others who might dare to defy it, and reveal the truth.

No doubt the CIA, and Mrs. Wilson, have many years, and much effort, invested in her career and skills. Her future, if not her safety, are now in jeopardy.

After reading Novak's column, The Nation's Washington Editor, David Corn, asked, "Did senior Bush officials blow the cover of a US intelligence officer working covertly in a field of vital importance to national security--and break the law--in order to strike at a Bush administration critic and intimidate others?"

The answer is plainly yes. Now the question is, will they get away with it?"

Read more HERE

****

And beardedbruce, I don't think that ANY government official or anyone else should lie to the Grand Jury {or lie to anyone else} be they Democrat or Republican.

I repeat, I'm waiting to see what will happen with the Grand Jury. It should be interesting.


Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 08:07 PM

I agree that they should be writing about it- but your conclusion is like the certainty some in the South had that someone was guilty of a crime because of the color of their skin. "Just because he is a neo-con..." As I said, what was the crime that he commited? The law about covert agents STATES 5 years, and she had been overt for 8- so there was no law broken.... But hell, let's lynch the n*... I mean Neo-con anyway.



I think the matter should be investigated- But I find it interesting how many here who supported Clinton's felony perjury seem to think that people should be held accountable for their crimes... ( not a comment to Azizi, as do not know her opinion of that matter,)


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 07:39 PM

beardedbruce, I wrote that what the newspapers report or what we say [here or anywhere else] about what some are calling "Treasongate" means nothing at all.

However, I did not mean to imply that newspapers shouldn't be writing about this, or that Americans & others shouldn't be sharing our opinions.

When I googled "Rove outing Plame" today there were 207,000 possible story hits. Here is one of them:

"July 03, 2005
Rove Confirms Meeting, Denies "Outing" Plame
The Houston Chronicle reports that:

Karl Rove, one of President Bush's closest advisers, spoke with a Time magazine reporter days before the name of a CIA operative surfaced in the media but did not leak the information, a lawyer for Rove said Saturday in a new admission in the case.
And the Washington Times reports that Newsweek
... reported on its Web site Saturday that e-mails surrendered by Time Inc. show Rove was one of Cooper's sources. Newsweek based its report on information from lawyers for witnesses "sympathetic to the White House."
Department of Justice Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is investigating "the alleged outing of Plame by syndicated columnist Robert Novak on July 14, 2003." Rove has testified before the grand jury three times, most recently in October 2004. Fitzgerald's reach has been broad, including both President Bush and Vice President Cheney,

Matt Cooper, the Time reporter, and Judith Miller, of the New York Times, could be jailed on Wednesday for refusing to cooperate with the grand jury investigation. Neither journalist broke the story naming Valerie Plame as a CIA agent; that was Robert Novak, a conservative columnist. Time subsequently published a story naming Plame; theh NY Times did not. The Guardian reports that "Novak has refused to say whether he has testified or been subpoenaed."

According to Newsweek:
Novak appears to have made some kind of arrangement with the special prosecutor, and other journalists who reported on the Plame story have talked to prosecutors with the permission of their sources...

In early October 2003, NEWSWEEK reported that immediately after Novak's column appeared in July, Rove called MSNBC "Hardball" host Chris Matthews and told him that Wilson's wife was "fair game." But White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters at the time that any suggestion that Rove had played a role in outing Plame was "totally ridiculous."
Writing in Salon in October 2003, John Dean says that the Bush Administration actions trump former President Nixon:
I thought I had seen political dirty tricks as foul as they could get, but I was wrong. In blowing the cover of CIA agent Valerie Plame to take political revenge on her husband, Ambassador Joseph Wilson, for telling the truth, Bush's people have out-Nixoned Nixon's people. And my former colleagues were not amateurs by any means."

Read more here about Rove Outing Plame

-snip-

After following this story, I have reached the conclusion that Rove and a number of other people are GUILTY AS SIN. But again, my opinion doesn't matter at all.

You might reach the completely opposite opinion-and, with all due respect, it really doesn't matter one way or the other.

What matters is what the Special Prosecuter does and what the Grand Jury concludes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 07:10 PM

Azizi

"What the newspapers report and what we think doesn't mean doodly-squat. "

100 % agreement with you on this.



"I'm waiting to see if there will be Grand Jury indictments. "

100% agreement with you on this.



"If "justice" still means anything in the USA, there should be a bunch of them since IMO "Treasongate" is far bigger than Iran-Contra, Watergate, and Clinton's affair with Monica. "

Given your first two points, I do not see where this came from. Did he commit a crime? How do you know? Newspaper reports? No grand jury YET...


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 05:19 PM

What the newspapers report and what we think doesn't mean doodly-squat.

I'm waiting to see if there will be Grand Jury indictments.

If "justice" still means anything in the USA, there should be a bunch of them since IMO "Treasongate" is far bigger than Iran-Contra, Watergate, and Clinton's affair with Monica.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: jpk
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 04:53 PM

maybe madcow got its start in a political circle,and is just now starting to spread to the more intelligent classes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST,G
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:40 AM

previous post by G.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 10:34 AM

Did anyone see a few days ago where the NY Times said, regarding Rove, that "no crime was committed"? Will have to get that on here.

Secondly, where has all the talk of this horrible "crime" been the last few days? Scouring the NY Times and the W. Post reveals zero.

I honestly think, true or not regarding Rove, that we might have a lot more to fear from the possibility of mad cow disease.
Not to insinuate that several may be posting here.

Yes, Ms. Plame had been an analyst the past 8 years, not covert.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 08:01 PM

Let me see...

A memeber of the Executive branch who is being investigated for possibly having commited a felony should be removed from office, even before the investigation has been completed. Is that correct?

From what I hear, the "agent" in question had not been covert for 8 years- and the law gives protection for 5 years after being covert. So, what law was broken?

As for Rove "admitting" anything, Clinton admitted lying to a grand jury ( a felony) and Kerry admitted to actions that were treason. I gues it just depends on whether you think that the law should apply to everyone, or just the people you don't approve of...

Must be that Wes Ginny Slide Rule...


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 08:00 PM

re comments about Rove's marriage status, I understand that he is married, and that this is his 2nd married...

Not that this has anything at all to do with his lying and possibly treasonous actions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is Karl Rove a Big Fat Liar???
From: number 6
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 07:54 PM

I hear that Karl Rove is getting a rather hefty (yes in fat) salary increase.

And there's nothin' we can do about it

I apologise for my error in my previous response to this thread.

sIx


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