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BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....

Bobert 07 May 05 - 08:42 PM
Amos 07 May 05 - 08:46 PM
Sorcha 07 May 05 - 08:58 PM
Bobert 07 May 05 - 09:13 PM
Liz the Squeak 07 May 05 - 09:20 PM
wysiwyg 07 May 05 - 09:41 PM
Bobert 07 May 05 - 10:15 PM
Azizi 07 May 05 - 10:39 PM
Bobert 07 May 05 - 11:19 PM
Peace 07 May 05 - 11:59 PM
LilyFestre 08 May 05 - 12:06 AM
Peace 08 May 05 - 12:18 AM
Ebbie 08 May 05 - 12:49 AM
GUEST,Clint Keller 08 May 05 - 02:24 AM
Azizi 08 May 05 - 02:40 AM
GUEST,robomatic 08 May 05 - 03:32 AM
Hrothgar 08 May 05 - 05:44 AM
GUEST,brucie 08 May 05 - 10:55 AM
GUEST,Stilly River Sage 08 May 05 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Metchosin 08 May 05 - 12:40 PM
GUEST, Ebbie 08 May 05 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,brucie 08 May 05 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,Azizi 08 May 05 - 02:26 PM
GUEST,brucie 08 May 05 - 02:32 PM
GUEST,brucie 08 May 05 - 02:34 PM
GUEST 08 May 05 - 02:41 PM
GUEST,Azizi 08 May 05 - 03:09 PM
GUEST 08 May 05 - 03:21 PM
GUEST,Alaska Mike 08 May 05 - 03:22 PM
GUEST,Brucie 08 May 05 - 03:47 PM
GUEST, Ebbie 08 May 05 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,WYS 08 May 05 - 03:50 PM
GUEST,brucie 08 May 05 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,Louie Roy 08 May 05 - 03:55 PM
GUEST 08 May 05 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,Azizi 08 May 05 - 04:01 PM
GUEST 08 May 05 - 04:06 PM
GUEST,Azizi 08 May 05 - 04:09 PM
GUEST 08 May 05 - 04:10 PM
LilyFestre 08 May 05 - 04:38 PM
Peace 08 May 05 - 04:43 PM
Ebbie 08 May 05 - 04:49 PM
Peace 08 May 05 - 05:03 PM
GUEST,Kendall 09 May 05 - 09:11 AM
JohnInKansas 09 May 05 - 11:17 AM
gnu 09 May 05 - 12:01 PM
Metchosin 09 May 05 - 12:03 PM
kendall 09 May 05 - 12:13 PM
gnu 09 May 05 - 12:16 PM
Once Famous 09 May 05 - 12:26 PM
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Subject: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 May 05 - 08:42 PM

As some of you may know this ol' Wes Ginny hillbilly is about to become a Va. hillbilly but in a more remote area and have learned that there are black bears livin' in the same area.... Like I've seen 'um once when drivin' on Skyline Drive, which is a couple thousand feet up the mountain from were we will be, but I ain't never lived wid 'um like comin' into yer back yard???!!!

So...

.... anyone ever lived in an area where they was purdu common? An' if so,, lets say Iz back in the equipement shed tinkerin' on my ol' Katmann Ghia and look out an' there a danged black bear 20 feet from me, like, other than get in the car and roll the windows up, what else should I do...

An' the P-Vine will be out gardenin' and stuff...

Like what are these bears realy like to live with???

Heck, I know all baout deer... Heck, there's prolly a couple in the back yard now... but bears????

Help!!!

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 05 - 08:46 PM

Seal your trash cans up tight, buddy, mebbe lock 'em up at night.

They are mostly food-driven, as I understand it.

Don't leave any dead rabbits on your porch and such....


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 May 05 - 08:58 PM

Yes, secure your garbage cans VERY well, get a can of pepper spray or Mace. NEVER EVER confront a bear. Blacks are not as agressive as Grizzlies, but don't count on it. NEVER EVER leave picnic food outside. Might be a wise idea to just not picnic.

They will come looking for food. If they don't find any for several visits they will probably leave you alone. Don't count on it.....the most predictable thing about bears is that they are Un predictable.

Don't plant any kind of garden, esp berries. You'll get them in spades...bears are truly Omnivorous. Carry pepper spray/Mace on your person AT ALL TIMES. There are NO bear proof garden fences.

Never ever leave any edible food outside for very long, inside a cooler or else. Bears like beer too.

NEVER advance at a bear. Sometimes, yelling and waving your arms will scare them away...notice I said 'sometimes' .......

You probably can't outrun a bear....be alert for spots you can get to in a pinch...this does NOT include tents or plate glass windows.

DO NOT EVER FEED THE BEARS!!!!! They are NOT 'cute domestic critters'

But, really, blacks (and their other colors) are not nearly as dangerous as the Griz.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 May 05 - 09:13 PM

Well, gol danged, Sorch.... Like you expect me to go tell the P-Vine all this stuff... Like never go out without pepper spray 'er the shotgun...

No way... You tell her!!! I will tell ya this if them bears get into her gardens she gonna put a mean whuppin' on'um...

(No, she isn't, Bobert.... She's gonna send yer shinny butt out there with the pepper spray and the shotgun...)

Like I said...

Seems the folks who we are buyin' the place from had a veggie garden... Yeah it was fenced in and kinda close to the house and they didn't say nuthin' 'bout the bears messin' wid it... But they put in some corn on the 8 acre field below the house and they said the bears were in it constantly???

Looks like I got my work cut out fir me but...

... while Iz quietly armin' to fight the bears don't nobody let the P-Vine read what Sorcha just said....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 May 05 - 09:20 PM

Just remember that yes.... bears DO in the woods.... and on the lawn, and in the house and basically anywhere elset they can stick their little tushes...

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 May 05 - 09:41 PM

Bobeet, Bobert, Bonert-- when you gonna larn call me first?

Black bears-- yup, I'm yore girl, P-Vine can call me up. Next week-- I'm going on a lil conference trip till Weds.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 May 05 - 10:15 PM

Oh, thank you, WYSusan... I shoulda figgued that you had kilt yer first bear by the age o' three... Yeah, I know that you'll get the P-Vine all starightened out...

As fir me, I'm gonna learnt up me some bear talk so I can jus get along wid them critters an' if that don't wirk, hey, I can always resort to pepper spray.... 'er the pop gun... Makes lots of noise... I don't think you gotta actually aim it at one of them bears to send the message that they need to cool it fir a day 'er two and come back and play nicer...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Azizi
Date: 07 May 05 - 10:39 PM

"But, really, blacks (and their other colors) are not nearly as dangerous as the Griz."

What are Griz??

And yes we can too be dangerous especially without adequate food, and clothing, and shelter, and employment, and civil rights, and especially since we face discrimination in health care, and education, and the criminal justice system.. And especially since there is still institutional and personal racism and people go around with misconceptions about us that we are not worthy of respect as -WHAT??
You talkin about black BEARS and not Black people??!!!

OH! My bad!!

:O))))


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 May 05 - 11:19 PM

Mizi, Mizi, Mizi....

Ahhh, I never thought about black bears as being like black folks, who as you know, I feel real comfy with...

Bears is a differnt story... Some o' them is black an' apparently they ain't as agressive as the brown bears and anf grizzlies???

Danged if I konw if this is true.... All I know is I don't want to get all set up down (up) there and invite you, er' any o' my frineds down (up) there an' ahve 'um stayin' in the guest trailer and have 'um have no problems with the bears... Which is apparently, ahhhh, like real bears and no imaginary bears...

No BillieBob speak here... I mean, these critters are apparently our closest neighbors?!!???!!!...

But not to fear, WYSusan is gonna come down and go off into the woods and have a little talk wid 'um an' see if we can come to some happy medium... You know, like if they leave us alone I won't shoot my big pop gun into the air....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 05 - 11:59 PM

I lived in bear country for about fifteen years of my life. Moistly black, some brown and griz. Don't feed 'em and they will generally leave you alone. In bear country where the bush is in close, I have always carried a 30-30 or had one readily available. However, you'll have neighbours there. They'll be able to tell you. Oh, yeah, dogs really piss bears right off.

BM


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 08 May 05 - 12:06 AM

Hey Bobert,


   We have black bears in our neck of the woods too. Best advice I have is to keep the garbage locked up tight, forget about having bird feeders (they'll not only eat the food but they'll knock the feeders out of the trees, off their poles and off your porch). Put up an electric fence around the garden, and forget the mace. That will only piss them off and you do NOT want an angry bear anywhere near you. They can outrun, outswim and outclimb you any day. If you encounter a bear, stand still and SLOWLY back up. They don't want to bother you anymore than you want to bother them. If you happen to get between a mama and her cub, all I can suggest is to pray.

    Bears have a very keen sense of hearing. I have to walk a little bit in the dark to get to my house from the driveway. When it is dark, I always get out of the car, call to the other animals, jingle my keys or make some kind of noise. If there are bears, they will leave. Also, when picking berries out in the woods, we whistle or attach bells to our sneakers to let the bears know we are there.

Keep your camera handy and don't ever feed the bears for any reason.

Good luck!

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 08 May 05 - 12:18 AM

PS

Michelle's advice is excellent.

I have never shot a bear. I did educate two of them, but I never had to kill one.

BM


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 May 05 - 12:49 AM

You know, there's a lot of information out there - some of it is valuable and some of it is chuckleable. (New word?) It all depends on what one has been told and some horror stories and urban legends that people peat and repeat until finally no one knows where it began...

In Juneau, Alaska, we have LOTS of black bears. In the forests, on the trails, in the streams and downtown on our streets and sidewalks, in our backyards and even on occasion in our homes. There have been several 'false' charges reported but there is NO report of actual attack on human beings. If you are where the bear expects to find you, there is very little alarm on either side. It is NOT a good idea to surprise a bear. And do NOT try to outrun a bear- you can't do it and you MAY trigger his chase instinct.

The prime thing to keep in mind is that the bear's job is to fatten up for the coming winter so if the bear does not identify you with food he will in all likelihood not be interested in you. And keeping him from salivating when he sees you and your backpack is what we all aim to do.

On the other hand, if you catch a salmon and a bear decides the hooked fish is HIS, by golly, it IS his. The law of the land.

There are certain laws and ordinances that we run afoul of at risk of our pocketbook and certain dicta we are encouraged to follow.

For instance:

* In spring and sumner we are advised to remove all bird feeders, even from second story decks and stairs. Bears love the fat content of seed and will follow their noses right to the feeder. We CAN put out the feeders in the winter.

* The same thing is true of hummingbird feeders. They advise us to forgo their use. Bears have a sweet tooth.

* Residences must have "bear- resistant", not "bear-proof" garbage containers. (The city has bear-PROOF conatainers that cost $500. each) Over the top of the can we are to hook on bungee cords just to further dissuade Brother Bruin. My garbage can is a Rubbermaid with handles that flip up and one bear - probably young- chewed on that lid until it is peppered with holes, but he never got into it. Bears are smart and are perfectly capable of knocking a can over and jumping up and down on it until the lid pops.

* On garbage pickup day, we are not allowed to put out our garbage cans until 4:00 AM. We are subject to hefty fines (As much as $150. in aggravated cases) if a can is found outside and unsecured otherwise.

* A friend of mine has fruit trees and berries all over his place. Porcupines are his main problem. They live-trap the porkies and haul them 20 miles away.

Some stories:

**A neighbor of mine was sunning herself in her backyard when a bear wandered in through the gate. Her kitten - Oreo- was so outraged at this overgrown chunk of fur she jumped onto the bear's hindquarters squawling away at the top of her lungs and raking the bear's rump with all four feet. The bear ran.

** On Starr Hill about five blocks from here a young man was napping on his couch in the afternoon in his ground floor efficiency apartment - having left his door wide open - when he woke to find a bear rummaging in his kitchen area. Equally surprised, the bear left the premises and so did the young man.

** Last summer a shirtless Swedish Foreign Exchange student was half asleep in the sun on a lawn chair. When he felt the host's dog nuzzle his chest he brushed it away, only to open his eyes in time to see a retreating bear. The bear had licked his bare chest.

We all have black bear stories.

** One More:

Official advice when you are down and being attacked by a bear - whether brown (grizzly) or black was to clasp your hands at the back of your neck and curl into a fetal position. Do not resist, they said. When the bear thinks you are dead or immobilized he will no longer feel threatened by you and will lose interest in you.

That was then. NOW, in regard to black bear attacks, the advice is different. They have discovered that SOME black bears when they have you down and helpless may decide they are hungry and start to feed on you. The advice today: When you are confronted/attacked/threatened by a BLACK bear, make yourself as BIG as you can, make as much noise as you can, and if he knocks you down keep fighting as long as you can.

These are Alaskan bears. I know that Virginia and Maryland and Pennsylvania have lots of them too. Bears in different parts of the country and the world may have different genes and different cultures.

Like horses. My father was a horse trainer in Oregon. When the family moved to Virginia (Ginny, Bobert) and continued his work with horses he wss struck by how different the horses were. Eastern horses seemed to have had the wild bred out of them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 08 May 05 - 02:24 AM

What Ebbie, LilyFestre, Brucie & them said.

And the classic real bad move is to get between a mama bear and her cubs.

Ebbie: My grandfather said the same thing about horses; there's a different culture in Idaho than in Missouri. There's a thesis in there for somebody.

And did anyone explain that 'Griz' is "Grizzly Bears?'

clint


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Azizi
Date: 08 May 05 - 02:40 AM

Well thanks for that info, Clint.

I did know that 'Griz' meant 'Grizzly Bears'.

I also knew that 'blacks' meant 'Black Bears'.

But I just felt like havin some fun and at the same time spreadin some truth...

And BTW, thanks to all y'all that shared information I really didn't know about what to do if you see a bear..

I don't imagine that I will ever need that info, but any thing is possible in life.

So here's a new African proverb that just came to me:

"It's far better to know and not need, than to need and not know".


Azizi Powell


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,robomatic
Date: 08 May 05 - 03:32 AM

Ebbie gave you a real good reply.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Hrothgar
Date: 08 May 05 - 05:44 AM

Bobert, tell Peavine nothing, and insure her.

Oh, you really like her? Better disregard this ....


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 08 May 05 - 10:55 AM

Great line I heard in a movie or read in a book (can't remember which): "What are ya gonna tell the bear when you run out of cookies?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 May 05 - 11:29 AM

Bobert,

I didn't notice anyone mentioning compost here so far. You won't be able to do a regular compost pile for the same reason you have to lock up your trash. In some parks I've worked in they've had luck suspending heavy garbage cans on a steel posts (only a few inches off of the ground, but evidently they can't flip it over to stick their heads in. The top also clamps on. Others have a heavy bin like at the post office--you can't reach in to pick out anything. I see others on the market. Another one.

Several organizations and states have good information about living around bears: Humane Society, U.S. Forest Service, Colorado, Maryland, Washington, Montana. In fact, there are many pages available if you search on "living with black bears." You're not alone.

You don't need to give up your lifestyle, but you will need to modify it. Look into red wiggler worm composting, for example.

Bobert, I think you'll find the benefits of living in an area like this far outweigh the inconvenience of having bears come checking out the food possibilities. Keep your garden in the open so they can't sneak in and out, and the electric wire around it might also be a good idea. (Heck, bears aren't the only problems gardens face. I need to put up a wire fence around mine to keep our new pooch from strolling through the onions).

Here's a note I came across from Rainier National Park:

    MOUNT RAINIER NATURE NEWS NOTES
    Vol. V September 12th, 1927 Summer Season No. 11

    [snip]


    WANTED--A BEAR-PROOF GARBAGE CAN.

    The men who "police" the Paradise Auto Camp are searching for a bear-proof garbage can although, at the same time, they are doubtful if there is any such thing.

    Every day the garbage cans are raided by the bears and on days when they are full it means double work for the caretakers. One man told me that he set-up a particular can three times within an hour. The can was over, the contents broadcast. He set it up. Before he was out of sight he heard a noise and found a bear had stepped from the shrubbery and was in the can. Again he set the can up and drove the bear away. A half hour later he returned that way and the can was down again.

    Several experiments have been tried. Piece of metal piping were driven through the handles and into the ground. The bear lifted the can from the stakes. A frame of heavy timbers well staked down was constructed about another can. The bear failed to turn it over but he removed the lid and pawed the contents over the top. We suggested a can with a spring cover but it would have to be strongly constructed or the bears would maul it into scrap iron.


This problem has been around a lot longer than 78 years, but considering all of the innovations in the world over that time, you'd think a fool-proof bear-proof can would have been developed. Good luck in finding the one that fools your bears!

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Metchosin
Date: 08 May 05 - 12:40 PM

Also be advised that bears will eat dogs, particularly annoying small dogs that know no fear. A dear friend's Westie was eaten by a black bear a few of years back. Another friend's pot-bellied pig suffered the same ignominious fate. Wee-wee could be heard squealing for miles when a grizzley dragged her from their front yard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST, Ebbie
Date: 08 May 05 - 12:42 PM

SRS, the "bearproof" cans the city of Juneau uses are heavy gauge steel square jobbies that have inset square lids whose catch is recessed; it is not possible to lift the lid until the catch is released.

Dumpsters, on the other hand, are not bear proof, only with a tight lid that discourages the effort needed to get inside.

If cans and dumpsters are overflowing, of course...

BTW, I was misleading in saying there is NO record of actual attacks on humans- I was speaking of Juneau in recent years. I know that in 1959 there was an attack by a black bear on a man with severe consequences and I read in an old newspaper that in 1928 a brown bear attacked and hauled off a miner in a then-unsettled area of Juneau.

And of course in other areas of southeast Alaska there are horror stories of deer hunters being killed by browns. In 1990 it happened on Admiralty Island to the son of a man I knew.

As for bells to advertise one's presence to bears- a Tlingit friend told me that when the bears hear a bell, they tell each other: "Dinner!" ;)


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 08 May 05 - 02:21 PM

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:IkNMtmYHd0kJ:www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/mammals/bear/Brownbearcoloring.shtml+brown+


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 08 May 05 - 02:26 PM

Well Ebbie, so I guess that means no bells...

And I'm sorry about "Wee Wee" the pig. But I have to say that name struck my funny bone. I guess that the name "Wee Wee" for a pig is more original than "Oink Oink".

But where I come from "Wee Wee" is a euphemism mostly used by little kids for 'doing number one'*. And "doing number one' is a euphemism for 'going to the bathroom' and that is another way to say 'peeing' and that is a more socially acceptable way of saying 'urinating'..

Silly I know but there that's the way it was {and probably still is with alot of people}.

* Number 2 is you know what..


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 08 May 05 - 02:32 PM

It's better the bear knows you're around. I came face to face with a black bear in Yosemite in the summer of 1968. The bears there have become too used to people and people to them, IMO. Anyway, I was in a broken rock formation that had 'lanes'. I rounded a corner and about 20' away was a female balck bear. I turned and set a new world's record for the quarter mile. I guess the bear did the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 08 May 05 - 02:34 PM

PS

As someone mentioned above, if you can see the cub(s) and you can't see mama, you could be in deep shit. If you can see the cub(s) and mama, you're just in trouble. Always walk in bear country with someone who runs slower than you do. A word to the wise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 05 - 02:41 PM

About six months ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 08 May 05 - 03:09 PM

Brucie, I thought people weren't supposed to run if they encountered a bear.

I mean I guess you're not supposed to stand and say 'Hi Bear. I'm your dinner". But I thought I read upthread that you were supposed to back away slowly...

Is this a case of mixed messages?

Not that I expect to encounter a bear where I live now, but I'm just wondering...


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 05 - 03:21 PM

OK Bobert, here are the three things you need to know about bears:

1. Always make noise while walking in bear country. Tie little bells to your pant cuffs or backpacks to jingle while you move.

2. Carry pepper spray for personal defense against an angry, attacking bear. Pepper spray works better than firearms and is safer to use in populated areas.

3. Learn to tell the difference between Black bears and Grizzly bears. Grizzly bears are usually larger, more aggressive and more likely to eat you. Grizzly scat is notably different from black bear scat (scat is a nice word that means poop). Grizzly scat has a distinct odor of pepper spray and is dotted with little jingly bells.

Have a nice day,
Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Alaska Mike
Date: 08 May 05 - 03:22 PM

Hey Bobert, that last post was me without my cookie.

Alaska Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Brucie
Date: 08 May 05 - 03:47 PM

It's true you're supposed to back away slowly. I ran like a sonuvabitch, way far fast. It had to do with adrenaline. Lots of it. Roger Bannister himself could NOT have caught up with me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST, Ebbie
Date: 08 May 05 - 03:48 PM

LOL Mike.

Azizi, running away from a bear is sometimes instinctive, not necessarily voluntary. And being about "20 feet away" from the bear, brucie was probably outside the 'zone' of what the bear considered threatening. And besides, bear personalities differ markedly.

Bear's nose is keen but their eyesight is poor. If the wind is not blowing in the right direction, the bear may not even know it was a human being he saw. Standing upright is not necessarily threatening, it may be simply to get a better view.

I once had an uncomfortable meeting with a bear on a public but lightly traveled, unpaved road. The bear came over a roadside barrier and we found ourselves maybe 8 feet apart. I averted my eyes (to indicate subservience) and held still. She - I think it was a female - stared at me, and when I finally took a small step backward, so did she. So I held still again. Finally, with her eyes fixed on me, she ambled to the side of the road and sat down, watching me.

I would have had to pass her in order to go on my way and that was something I didn't want to do. So I thought to myself: If she doesn't know I'm a human being, if I TALK she will know and maybe she'll go away.

So I did. The only thing is that I could not - literally - think of anything to say, so I said, la la la la la la. Sure enough she got up unhurriedly and disappeared into the woods.

I used to camp in Oregon and Washington in bear country. By preference I slept under the stars- and NEVER had a problem. Somehow I feel different about it in the mountains around Juneau. I suspect the problem is in ME, not in THEM.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,WYS
Date: 08 May 05 - 03:50 PM

No Grizz in VA I bet.

BTW-- shooting grizz, .357 or more powerful, or it's a joke.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 08 May 05 - 03:52 PM

Years ago two friends of mine--whoim I will call Moe and Joe--got it into their heads that we THREE were gonna hunt grizzly in the Rockies. Moe said he'd bring a camera to record the event and Joe was going to hunt it with a bow and friggin' arrow. One of the fellows asked what I was going to bring. I replied, "Single-shot .22 rifle." They said that wouldn't be enough to kill the bear if Joe only wounded it and the bear attacked. I said that I didn't give a shit about the bear. The rifle was to shoot one of them in the kneecap. Ended up we didn't go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Louie Roy
Date: 08 May 05 - 03:55 PM

Instead of pepper spray as Sorcha suggest carry a loaded 44 magnum and know how to use it and you won't have any trouble


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 05 - 03:58 PM

PS

I don't want any of what I posted to be interpreted as advice. I do know that I've spent considerable time in bear country and never had a problem. Mostly, I leave them alone and they leave me alone.

BM


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 08 May 05 - 04:01 PM

Ebbie,
Thanks for that explanation and thanks also for sharing your story about your meeting with a bear.

Brucie-That was a good tall tale. But then again, I have a sneaking suspicion that your "Moe and Joe" story might really have been true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 05 - 04:06 PM

It WAS true. They meant to do as they said; I meant to do as I said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 08 May 05 - 04:09 PM

[I take it the last post was from Brucie].

Okay Brucie. I believe you.

Peace!

Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 05 - 04:10 PM

Re pepper spray:

Ya gonna marinate it first?


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 08 May 05 - 04:38 PM

Before my husband and I were married, he used to go camping for a few weeks at a time alone. The last trip he took before we met ended early as he awoke one morning to a black bear licking his toes that were sticking out of the tent!

Michelle

PS...can you visualize that WYS? LOL!


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 08 May 05 - 04:43 PM

"BTW-- shooting grizz, .357 or more powerful, or it's a joke."

Disagree. If ya can't shoot worth a darn it ain't gonna matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 May 05 - 04:49 PM

The grizzly (brown) bear requiring a lot of 'take down' is nothing new. The Smithsonian Institution magazine currently has a serial account of the Lewis and Clark expedition diaries. In it they mention how amazed they were at the grizzly's ability to absorb injury.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Peace
Date: 08 May 05 - 05:03 PM

A pissed off grizzly is one load of pissed of, no mistake about THAT.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 09 May 05 - 09:11 AM

Always travel in pairs, and make sure you can outrun the other person.That way, you don't have to outrun the bear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 May 05 - 11:17 AM

If you're going to live with critters, you're going to have to learn how to understand the social customs of the critters in your area. Your best advice likely will come from "official" sources in the local area - forestry service, wildlife management, parks and recreation people perhaps. Local law enforcement folk may have particular, and sometimes peculiar, recommendations about what you may and may not do.

Think of your invasion of the critters' territory as a little like walking into a "biker bar" wearing a three piece suit. (And you parked your Vespa outside.) Caution – and an acute awareness of your immediate surroundings – is advised.

With respect to the advice that a .357 is the minimum useful - it isn't at all useful unless you have practiced using it. I have seen experienced marksmen, accustomed to shooting dozens to hundreds of rounds of .45 and .38 pistol ammo per day, so completely disoriented by the "shock" from a first-time firing of a .357 that they dropped their gun and wandered off the firing line unaware of where they were for several moments. A .44 Mag is substantially "more abrupt" than even a .357.

For practice, hearing protection is mandatory for any shooting. In a "critter encounter" you probably will not have such protection, and especially with a .357 or .44 Magnum, you will hear nothing except the ringing in your ears for at least a couple of minutes - or more. (And you will likely have at least some permanent hearing damage.) Note that since you're presumedly closer to the gun than the critter is, his hearing will be much less affected. Advantage: critter.

Even if you're experienced and sufficiently "collected" to get off a useful shot, it's obviously a last-resort sort of thing. It ain't easy like in the movies.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: gnu
Date: 09 May 05 - 12:01 PM

All very good advice. Off the top of my head, I can only think to add: Regularly piss on a half dozen trees at the perimeter of your property - the higher up the tree, the better; black bears are just as dangerous as any others, and; while pistols are convenient to carry, shotguns are the firearm of choice due to their versatility and ease of handling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 May 05 - 12:03 PM

Azizi, the name Wee-wee for the pig was from a childhood tickle game played with the toes of small children and babies, starting with the big toe,

This little pig went to market
This little pig stayed home
This little pig had roast beef
And this little pig had none
And this little pig went, wee, wee, wee, wee,
All the way home!

The bear that ate Wee-wee was a grizzley and did similar damage to my friend's outbuildings as was noted in the link to Hinton by Guest. Bear traps were set up and two bears eventually moved to a less populated area.

Like brucie I've spent a lot of time in bear country too, but mostly on horseback, so the bears usually prefer to vacate when they hear the the horses coming or get a whiff.

Which reminds me of a the time I spent at treeline once, with my pants around my ankles. There had quite recently been a grizzley around digging up wasp nests, but I was suffering such lower intestinal agony, from an unwise feed of cole slaw the previous evening, that any clump of trees looked pretty welcoming, even one with a bear.

Alone in my vunerable postion and pain, I can remember thinking, "C'mon you SOB, please put me out of my misery". Never saw him, but then perhaps I'd discovered a pretty good bear repellant. I've heard that geese foul their eggs to make them less attractive to predators too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: kendall
Date: 09 May 05 - 12:13 PM

You need to outsmart the bear, you can not outrun one.
One way to deal with a bear is to find his marking tree. That is a tall tree on which he reaches as high as he can and claws the bark. He will regularly vist this "marker tree" and see if any other bear has marked it. if his mark is still the highest, he will stay in the area. However, if another bear is able to reach higher he will leave the area rather than risk an encounter with a bigger bear.
Now, I used to have a woods camp in the backwoods of Maine and I got tired of finding the place trashed by a bear. So, I took a step ladder and a garden rake, found his marker tree, climbed as high as I dared and raked the hell out of his tree. No bears have been seen in that area since.
(Brains over bullets)


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: gnu
Date: 09 May 05 - 12:16 PM

Yup, the higher up the tree, the better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Livin' with Black Bears Question....
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 May 05 - 12:26 PM

In chicago, the Bears play football. Not too well, but they are a threat only to our Monday morning mood.


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