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BS: 10,000 arrested in US today

Donuel 15 Apr 05 - 06:30 PM
SINSULL 15 Apr 05 - 06:42 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 06:43 PM
open mike 15 Apr 05 - 06:45 PM
Donuel 15 Apr 05 - 06:46 PM
Donuel 15 Apr 05 - 06:48 PM
Bobert 15 Apr 05 - 06:56 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 07:00 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 07:11 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 07:12 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 07:29 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 07:29 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 07:40 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 08:00 PM
Donuel 15 Apr 05 - 08:16 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 08:22 PM
Bobert 15 Apr 05 - 08:27 PM
Donuel 15 Apr 05 - 08:29 PM
CarolC 15 Apr 05 - 08:47 PM
Uncle_DaveO 15 Apr 05 - 09:05 PM
Bobert 15 Apr 05 - 09:13 PM
CarolC 15 Apr 05 - 09:16 PM
GUEST,leeneia 15 Apr 05 - 09:37 PM
GUEST,Eric 15 Apr 05 - 09:54 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 10:13 PM
GUEST,Paranoid Android 15 Apr 05 - 10:31 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 11:02 PM
Peace 15 Apr 05 - 11:14 PM
The Fooles Troupe 16 Apr 05 - 09:52 AM
Uncle_DaveO 16 Apr 05 - 11:15 AM
Peace 16 Apr 05 - 02:19 PM
Ebbie 16 Apr 05 - 02:25 PM
Peace 16 Apr 05 - 02:36 PM
CarolC 16 Apr 05 - 02:37 PM
Peace 16 Apr 05 - 02:43 PM
robomatic 16 Apr 05 - 03:04 PM
CarolC 16 Apr 05 - 03:06 PM
CarolC 16 Apr 05 - 03:08 PM
Peace 16 Apr 05 - 03:17 PM
beardedbruce 16 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM
Peace 16 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM
Peace 16 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM
Peace 16 Apr 05 - 03:24 PM
Uncle_DaveO 16 Apr 05 - 03:45 PM
Peace 16 Apr 05 - 03:50 PM
beardedbruce 16 Apr 05 - 03:53 PM
Ebbie 16 Apr 05 - 03:59 PM
Peace 16 Apr 05 - 04:11 PM
beardedbruce 16 Apr 05 - 04:22 PM
Peace 16 Apr 05 - 04:22 PM
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Subject: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:30 PM

Operation Falcon is the name of the coordinated arrest of 10,000 Americans with outstanding warrants.

There have been other mass arrests staged in the US of late. In LA an amnesty program for Muslims ended in 200 arrests. In a Texas Walmart parking lot hundreds were arrested by local police for "loitering".

Along with the practice of rounding people up to be put in free speech zones I see a general pattern of training various police agencies in the practice of mass arrests.

In DC a single individual with an anti Bush sign in the park can be arrested/detained for parading without a license.

The similarities to 3rd Reich practices in the US today are shocking.

"It happens little by little like drops of anethesia down a tube and it doesn't hit you until some new policy hits you personally".

German citizen from 1939.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:42 PM

"coordinated arrest of 10,000 Americans with outstanding warrants. "

The news coverage I have seen on this lists drug dealers, sexual predators, and violent criminals all with outstanding warrants. WHy shouldn't they be arrested?
Mary


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:43 PM

The Rex 84 Program
Operation Cable Splicer
Garden Plot

You wanna know why Don's worried and maybe why you should be too? Check out the three 'programs' above.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: open mike
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:45 PM

what is the word from the vigilante border patrol?
i remember hearing that there was some sort of
volunteer force forming to guard the U.S./Mexican border?


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:46 PM

Legitimate mass arrests will act as a precedent to accept more mass arrests of a more dubious nature.

Otherwise why tie up all your man power on one particular day?


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:48 PM

mike, Bush called them irresponsible vigilantes.

Cheap near slave labor is good for business. Homeland security be damned.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 06:56 PM

Donuel is entirely correct to be concerned, very concerned about the "mass arrest". This isn't about whether or not these folks were criminals, It's about the idea of "mass arrests"... Hey, like who is going to come back and say that the cops didn't know where these folks were the day before, or week before, or month of even years... Heck, as far as I'm concerned it is criminal for law enforcement folks to not arrest criminals once they know where to find 'um...

Yeah, I am concerned... Tghis crap went down in the 30's in Germany and people got desensitized to it until "they came for me"...

Yeah, I know there are folks here who think we on progrressive side are overstating our positions... Not really...

Think about it...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:00 PM

FYI and consideration


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:11 PM

And if you think the above is bullshit, which I am sure many will, then do the following:

Ask your Senators and Congressmen/women about

FEMA and the REX-84 program. Also ask about the following. Please let me know the answers you get I would be interested in hearing.

Operation Cable Splicer
Garden Plot


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:12 PM

Don't argue--ASK.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:29 PM

Does 7-WTC mean anything to people here?


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:29 PM

If not, why not?


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:40 PM

And last for the day. Sleep well.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:00 PM

"All this was inspired by the principle - which is quite true in itself - that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes."

Little quote from a translation by James Murphy. I am sure you know what the original work was.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:16 PM

Being reminded of the obvious can help break the near hypnotic spell of media propoganda and selective censorship.

The obvious similar propoganda event of the 3rd Reich was the Reichstad building fire, after which Germany remained in a constant state of emergency.

Hitler suspends civil rights vs. our Patriot Act.

Newspapers in Germany calling for war was hysterical in rhetoric and misleading in facts.

Soldiers in Germany took an oath directly to Adolf Hitler.
vs.
Republicans were made to sign an oath to George Bush prior to admittence to rallies. The pray for Bush campaign was initiated during the Iraq war and included in the army fikd manual.

Many more of the initial similarities are more streamlined today but there are still the good old fashooined Nazi propogandists like AM radio Mike Savage who call for the arrest of all liberals on sedition charges and classifies any who dissent against Bush and have a liberal agenda are mentally ill and must be dealt with as such.

You may say it can't happen here but I say it is already 20% done.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:22 PM

It's a helluva lot more than that done, IMO.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:27 PM

Where's Dougie?


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:29 PM

Perhaps brucie.
We are a Crystal nacht and the assasination of all RS members away from a massive war society.
Reducing the economy down to a level when the promise of bread and work is more meaningful than a free college education also aids the descent to fascism.

Bobert has alot of facts the right wing has tenderized anyone who brings them up as being crazy or a traitor.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:47 PM

Bobert, he's standing proudly on the bow of the good ship Skytanic shouting,

"I'm KING of the world!!!"


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:05 PM

I think it was Donuel who asked:

Otherwise why tie up all your man power on one particular day?

For the obvious reason that if you don't do it at the same time the "targets" can move around and avoid the program.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:13 PM

What did I miss here, CarolC???

Been a long day so maybe....

Nevermind...

B:)


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:16 PM

The good ship Sky(is falling)tanic, Bobert.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:37 PM

Here in the River City megalopolis (pop. 1,000,000) the dragnet went on for seven days, not one day. Police acted upon 500 warrants and made 140 arrests. They discovered that 119 fugitives had died or were in prison somewhere.

Doesn't sound like trouble to me - sounds like co-operation and intelligent law enforcement. Computers were a great help.

500 warrants divided by 1,000,000 population. Doesn't sound like "mass" anything to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: GUEST,Eric
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:54 PM

As an American who has been a victim of both violent crime (a street mugging) and nonviolent but nonetheless upsetting crime (a burglarly) in a city where I used to live (but no longer do, for obvious reasons), and as one who would rather not be preyed upon by the sort of folks who were rounded up in Operation Falcon or have them free to prey on others, I have absolutely no problem with it. I always suspect that most of the people who are concerned about the rights of criminals have never been the victim of one. Was this a publicity stunt? Of course, but one aimed at potential perpetrators in the hope of making at least a few of them think twice before making someone else a victim.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 10:13 PM

"I always suspect that most of the people who are concerned about the rights of criminals have never been the victim of one"

The folks here speaking about mass arrest are not concerned with "the rights of criminals". Rather, it is concern for the rights of Americans.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: GUEST,Paranoid Android
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 10:31 PM

Presumably the "Rights of (law abiding) Americans" are the same as elsewhere. If there is a warrant for the arrest of a non-law-abiding person then that warrant should be executed. What's the problem in that?


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 11:02 PM

No problem with that. None at all.

However, what happens when judges sign warrants for the arrest of innocent people or people who have expressed displeasure with the government? No crime committed. So, what are the camps for?


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 11:14 PM

See list at bottom of page. See also if you can visit one near YOU.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 09:52 AM

The comic book Judge Dread was right!


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 11:15 AM

Brucie said:

However, what happens when judges sign warrants for the arrest of innocent people or people who have expressed displeasure with the government? No crime committed. So, what are the camps for?

Bad arrests or bad warrants is/are a different subject from a mass arrest campaign.

These, as I understand it, were all preexisting warrants, which had accumulated in the normal course of things. The open warrant cleanup campaign does not imply any greater proportion of bad warrants than would be found in ordinary piecemeal enforcement.

Yes, we (that is, all right-thinking people) should be aware and concerned about the occasional bad warrant or the occasional bad arrest, both of which will inevitably occur. But don't muddy the waters by confusing that with the coordinated campaign.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 02:19 PM

DaveO: My remark was in response to a guest. Please don't you conflate the issues either.

Thanks.

BM


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 02:25 PM

I checked out Brucie's link. I can vouch for the existence of the Florence, Arizona camp.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 02:36 PM

Can anyone vouch for any others?


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 02:37 PM

I'm glad you said that, Ebbie. I was wondering if anyone besides the guy in the link had seen these camps. I'm with brucie on this one. I'd like to know what they are for (without having to find out from the inside of one of them).


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 02:43 PM

Carol: Ask not for whom the camps are. They are for thee (and like-minded people).


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:04 PM

Yeah Yeah yeah. In your fantasy camps there is nothing but sequestration and mind control.

Check out Rainbow Six by Tom Clancy. The rabid environmentalists there try to kill off 99.99% of all humanity.

By comparing your imaginary threat to his, I'd say your nonexistent concerns are less than his nonexistent concerns.

Hey, but thanks for showing you care.

"As I was going up the stair
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today,
I wish I wish he'd go away."
Hughes Mearns


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:06 PM

I'd like to know what the "official" explanation is for these camps.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:08 PM

Did you look a the pictures, robomatic?


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:17 PM

http://www.fema.gov/library/eo12148.shtm

FEMA can over-ride Congress if/when the Executive declares a national emergency.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM

Section 6. This Order is effective July 15, 1979.

Jimmy Carter
THE WHITE HOUSE

July 20, 1979.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM

Robomatic: Go see how close you can get to this one. Let me know how it works out.

Houlton - WWII German/Italian POW camp. Under renovation.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:19 PM

Right, BB.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:24 PM

PS

I am NOT about to be sidetracked by this kinda shit. Go visit a camp near you. Tell us about the reception you get. Are the people there civilian security guards or military types? Let me know.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:45 PM

All that order does is transfer the EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS functions from three departments to FEMA. A reorganization of powers that already existed. So what?

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:50 PM

So explain the camps.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:53 PM

brucie,

"Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: brucie - PM
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:17 PM

http://www.fema.gov/library/eo12148.shtm

FEMA can over-ride Congress if/when the Executive declares a national emergency. "

My quote was from *your* clicky. Are we going to criticise the Bush administration for the bombing of Hiroshima, now?

I make no statement nor judgement about the *present* condition or use of any camps- I was just pointing out the fact that you were complaining about an executive order NOT written by the present, nor even any Republican, administration.

*****************************************
Executive Order 12148

Federal Emergency Management

July 20, 1979

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, including the Federal Civil Defense Act of 1950, as amended (50 U.S.C. App. 2251 et seq.), the Disaster Relief Act of 1970, as amended (42 U.S.C. Chapter 58 note), the Disaster Relief Act of 1974 (88 Stat. 143; 42 U.S.C. 5121 et seq.), the Earthquake Hazards Reduction Act of 1977 (42 U.S.C. 7701 et seq.), Section 4 of Public Law 92-385 (86 Stat. 556), Section 43 of the Act of August 10, 1956, as amended (50 U.S.C. App. 2285), the National Security Act of 1947, as amended, the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (50 U.S.C. App. 2061 et seq.), Reorganization Plan No. 1 of 1958, Reorganization Plan No. 1 of 1973, the Strategic and Critical Materials Stock Piling Act, as amended (50 U.S.C. 98 et seq.), Section 202 of the Budget and Accounting Procedures Act of 1950 (31 U.S.C. 581c), and Section 301 of Title 3 of the United States Code, and in order to transfer emergency functions to the Federal Emergency Management Agency, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Transfers or Reassignments

1-1. Transfer or Reassignment of Existing Functions.

.....


*********************************************************************

If this is a sidetrack, why did YOU post the clicky? AZre we NOT supposed to read the references you post?


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 03:59 PM

All I really know - and this is from 30 years ago - is that off a state highway, there is a paved road that goes slightly uphill and out of sight. The road to the installation leads to a very tall fence-enclosed area with low buildings that you can see from different angles. Not far up the road are black on white lettered signs: NO ENTRANCE. NO TRESPASSING. WARNING.

In the town of Florence, I asked several people about it. They seemed pretty much OK with it, except they didn't rally want to discuss it. They said, It's a government camp. They said, It's for use in the event of emergency. They said, It's for if they have to round up people. They said, You can't go there.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 04:11 PM

BB, you are too smart not to connect the dots. There have been subsequent Executive Orders that 'enhance' EO 12148. If you want links to them I will provide them. The upshoot? FEMA can now over-ride Congress. There are lotsa camps being built. The camps will be able to contain hundreds of thousands of people. Hell, are there really that many terrorists in the US? Or is government now going to change the definition of terrorist to include anyone who disagrees with it? Or speaks against it?

The camps. Visit a camp and tell me how it goes.


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 04:22 PM

brucie,

The government, WHOEVER is in power at the time, need only declare martial law to get those powers. This is as it has been for decades, if not centuries. I have no problem with your concerns, and the dangers posed by arbitrary government actions, BUT you should at least acknowledge that the powers being used are ones NOT created by the Bush Administration. You IMPLY that this administration is in some way different from those that have been in control in the past- THAT is what you need to demonstrate to make a valid criticsm.

Shall I posulate that the Hillary Clinton administration will round up all the children and send them to re-education camps to give them the "proper" upbringing, and then declare it to be fact?


HAve you visited a camp? What IS the government explaination? Where WILL all the people evacuated under martial law from cities where biological or other WMDs have been used by terrorist be sent to? How WILL the government keep them from spreading some bio-WMD ( ie, contagious disease) throughout the entire country?

Has anyone been rounded up, yet? It seems like they better get busy, since in another three years they will lose the oppurtunity to do so....


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Subject: RE: BS: 10,000 arrested in US today
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 05 - 04:22 PM

What concerns me IS the next three years.


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