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BS: Bobert's Race Thread

Bobert 30 Apr 05 - 08:11 PM
SharonA 30 Apr 05 - 02:36 PM
beardedbruce 30 Apr 05 - 03:27 AM
Bobert 29 Apr 05 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,CarolC 29 Apr 05 - 02:03 PM
Azizi 29 Apr 05 - 10:17 AM
Azizi 29 Apr 05 - 07:48 AM
Azizi 29 Apr 05 - 07:36 AM
GUEST,Koonta 28 Apr 05 - 11:57 PM
Bobert 22 Apr 05 - 08:40 PM
Once Famous 22 Apr 05 - 03:51 PM
Once Famous 22 Apr 05 - 03:49 PM
dianavan 22 Apr 05 - 12:56 AM
GUEST,guess who again 22 Apr 05 - 12:00 AM
Bobert 21 Apr 05 - 11:15 PM
Once Famous 21 Apr 05 - 11:00 PM
Bobert 21 Apr 05 - 10:43 PM
Once Famous 21 Apr 05 - 10:32 PM
dianavan 21 Apr 05 - 09:15 PM
Bobert 21 Apr 05 - 09:12 PM
GUEST 21 Apr 05 - 08:53 PM
Azizi 21 Apr 05 - 08:20 PM
Azizi 21 Apr 05 - 08:18 PM
Kaleea 21 Apr 05 - 08:06 PM
Bobert 21 Apr 05 - 08:01 PM
GUEST,PoppaGator 21 Apr 05 - 02:22 PM
Ebbie 21 Apr 05 - 01:00 PM
mg 21 Apr 05 - 12:26 PM
GUEST, Ebbie 21 Apr 05 - 01:03 AM
beardedbruce 20 Apr 05 - 11:27 PM
Once Famous 20 Apr 05 - 08:53 PM
GUEST,Spring Brucesteen 20 Apr 05 - 08:47 PM
beardedbruce 20 Apr 05 - 08:24 PM
GUEST,Dipthong 20 Apr 05 - 07:00 PM
GUEST,Dipthong 20 Apr 05 - 06:58 PM
GUEST 20 Apr 05 - 06:23 PM
dianavan 19 Apr 05 - 11:59 PM
Once Famous 19 Apr 05 - 09:24 PM
Bobert 19 Apr 05 - 07:51 PM
Azizi 19 Apr 05 - 08:51 AM
Azizi 19 Apr 05 - 08:29 AM
Azizi 19 Apr 05 - 07:59 AM
Bobert 19 Apr 05 - 07:29 AM
dianavan 19 Apr 05 - 03:46 AM
Azizi 19 Apr 05 - 02:19 AM
Azizi 19 Apr 05 - 02:14 AM
Azizi 19 Apr 05 - 02:04 AM
dianavan 19 Apr 05 - 12:50 AM
Bobert 18 Apr 05 - 05:46 PM
Once Famous 18 Apr 05 - 03:14 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 08:11 PM

Good link, bb... Yeah, this is the kida stuff that is as wrong as wrong can be...

Now, ahhhhh, I gotta a big ol' smile on my face 'cause long lost SharoooonA has resurfaced and on my thread... Make me all watm and fuzzy... But, no I' ain't runnin' no marathon 'er even a 5K fir that matter... Might of fact, my runnin' days are in the past...Sniff... Mr. Knee and Dr. Knee Surgeon have spoken loudly.... Good to see ya, Chardoney SharoooonA...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 02:36 PM

"Bobert's Race Thread"? Here I thought Bobert was running in a marathon and needed encouragement... (Go, Bobert, go!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 03:27 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/04/29/latam.sextrafficking.ap/index.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 07:33 PM

Well, yeah... Slavery is still a serious problem in part of Africa and it needs to be addressed...

Problem is that when the world's single Super Power can't fess up in sayin' it was wrong in out history, it sure does sent a signal that it's, ahhhh, okay... No is isn't, I wasn't and it never will be...

I think the US could set a fine example for the world by facing its past and atoning for its collective sins...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: GUEST,CarolC
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 02:03 PM

I think GUEST,Koonta's 28 Apr 05 - 11:57 PM post was more an example of Muslim bashing than anything else. We see quite a lot of that sort of thing hereabouts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 10:17 AM

Of course, everybody is of African descent if you go back far enough.

But when I questioned "Koonta"'s membership in the 'club', I wasn't talking about ancient history.

Then again, all through history we've been known to accept as members those who weren't born into the club but still have paid their dues in blood, sweat, and tears.

As a bonafide member, there's a number of folks here I would recommend for membership if they needed backing-which they probably don't since their lives speak for themselves.

And no-I'm not naming names except to say that from the posts I've seen, it wouldn't be Koonta.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 07:48 AM

Let me clarify that I don't use those two terms at all except when responding to a person such as yourself who may be posting information for valid reasons or who may be tryin to "instigate" just for the fun of it so that you can then sit back and watch the fire works.

troll troll. Has anybody seen a troll?

Maybe. But I responded to your post because, at this point, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I just wanted you to know...


Sista Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 07:36 AM

Guest Koonta [a play on the name Kunta Kinte?-clever. But are you really of African descent??? Only you know the truth of that, but I have my suspicions that the answer is "No"].

Thank you for providing information about a subject that needs to be discussed. The subject of present day slavery has been raised before on this discussion forum, and certainly can be and needs to be raised again.

Furthermore, I agree with you that places of power such as the United Nations need to direct more attention to these heinous acts.

Koonta, I do not deny that some Black Africans were involved in slavery along with White people in the past and that some Africans are still involved in slavery in the present along with White people and also independent of White people.

I also am aware-as I'm sure that you are-that present day slavery exist elsewhere and not just in the continent of Africa.

And Koonta, for what it's worth, I personally find the term "Whitey" as offensive an individual or group referent as the term N---g [though I will spell one out and not the other].


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: GUEST,Koonta
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 11:57 PM

Slavery continues today with the full knowledge of the UN governed by Africans. Do they care?

Evidently not or they would do something about it besides beat their gums and collect their pay.

But it's still all Whitey's fault.

UNICEF (the UN Children's Fund) estimates that 200,000 children from West and Central Africa are sold into slavery each year.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/slavery1.html

"Slave Trading on Africa's West Coast

The slave trade in Africa was officially banned in the early 1880s, but forced labor continues to be practiced in West and Central Africa today. UNICEF estimates that 200,000 children from this region are sold into slavery each year. Many of these children are from Benin and Togo, and are sold into the domestic, agricultural, and sex industries of wealthier, neighboring countries such as Nigeria and Gabon.
      
The most recent incident involved the MV Etireno, which was refused from ports in Gabon and Cameroon. When the ship reached Cotonou, Benin, in April, 2001, police began an investigation of the captain and crew. More adults than children were believed to be aboard.
Chattel slavery in Sudan

The enslavement of the Dinkas in southern Sudan may be the most horrific and well-known example of contemporary slavery. According to 1993 U.S. State Department estimates, up to 90,000 blacks are owned by North African Arabs, and often sold as property in a thriving slave trade for as little as $15 per human being.
"There he found several Dinka men hobbling, their Achilles tendons cut because they refused to become Muslims."      

Animist tribes in southern Sudan are frequently invaded by Arab militias from the North, who kill the men and enslave the women and children. The Arabs consider it a traditional right to enslave southerners, and to own chattel slaves (slaves owned as personal property).

Physical mutilation is practiced upon these slaves not only to prevent escape, but to enforce the owners' ideologies. According to an ASI report: "Kon, a thirteen-year-old Dinka boy, was abducted by Arab nomads and taken to a merchant's house. There he found several Dinka men hobbling, their Achilles tendons cut because they refused to become Muslims. Threatened with the same treatment the boy converted."

In a detailed article by Charles Jacobs for the American Anti-Slavery Group (ASI), Jacobs recounts how a 10-year-old child was taken in a raid on her village in southern Sudan, and branded by her master with a hot iron pot."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 08:40 PM

No, Martin, actually there should be a Holocost Museum because it a story that very much needs to be told... jus' as the story about slavery in America needs to be told... You seem to wnat one story told but can't see the, in a way, the story of slavery in America is very much a similar story of the pain of having families ripped apart, and loss, and a toatl disregard for other human beings...

Yeah, the Holocost story seems so neat and tidy now that "Schindler's List" (a very oving and informative movie) and the Holocost Museum are in have gone down...

Yet you would not allow or approve or sponsor the same acknowledgements to the descendents of slaves??? I find this very disturbing... Like we got our story told so screw yours...

Hmmmmmmm?

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 03:51 PM

certainly not fixated, bobert. commentary does not equal fixation.

And there is a holocaust museum because there should be, that's why.
so sorry if that disturbs your sorry socialist conscience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 03:49 PM

People of color, dianavan, or of first generation ethnic origin.

[bleep - for antisocial behavior]Now, please tell me why you are such a wacky, bitter bitch?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 12:56 AM

Please, Martin, your ignorance is showing! I don't know which staement is worse:

"My neighbors are black, and are good friends."

or

"...there are ethnic people I know and like at home and at work."

What are ethnic people?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: GUEST,guess who again
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 12:00 AM

come on marvin gibbon...we want to give you a going away present, but you'll have to do your part!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 11:15 PM

Hmmmmm, Martin? What is it with my penis that has you so fixated???

Like I've said before... You really need to talk with yer shrink about that polymorphose perverse guilt that you been carryin' round with you for way too long...

BTW, you never did get around to respondin' to my question about the Holocost Museum,... What, it's okay for Jews to tell their stories but not okay for black folks to tell theirs???

Like what's that all about?

Can you answer that simple question without fixatin' on my private parts???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 11:00 PM

Campbell's Chicken and Rice Soup.   Mmmmmmmm, good. Great American product by a great American company. But of couse there are some Kosher brands that are better but would would you know about that kind of wuality, bobert.

And of course in an urban area as big as Chicago there are ethnic people I know and like at home and at work.

[bleep - for antisocial behavior] I don't care about your attacks bobert. They are weak and as flaccid as your old prick. Your last erection was probably obtained with a string, or were you just playing marionette.

At least I am still going to out-clever you any day of the week. Goyishe kups like yours are no match for a mensch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 10:43 PM

Martin:

I was wonderin' how long it would take for you to pull out the old "Some of my best friends are black" line...

Gettin' purdy desperate, ain't ya?

That's okay, maybe a couple extra cans of Campbell's Chicken with Rice soup in the food closet will get ya back to feelin' all warm and fuzzy....

And, as a sidebar, I'm lovin' that yer lovin' my attacks... Heck, I'd hate to think that they were going to waste and BTW, you ain't doing so bad yerseff...

LOL...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 10:32 PM

[bleep - for antisocial behavior]bobert your such a fuck stick. My neighbors are black, and are good friends.

If you knew what you were talking about, and wrote without such a moronic attitude, you might be considered not a socialist sicko.

But, too bad. You are one of the biggest morons here. I'm loving how desperate your attacks are getting. Loving it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 09:15 PM

Aint that the truth! If you cut through the crap, what you find is that women (of all races and all socio-economic groups) have the longest history of unpaid labour and discrimination in all countries.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 09:12 PM

Yeah, women definately got a big apology owed 'um so I'll go on record of apologizin' to all the women fir the dumbass stuff than men and have done, and continue to do, to women...

But yer gonna have to hit someone up fir the dough, guess who, 'cause I'm a tad on the tapped out side. Though I wouldn't mind seein' my tax dollars better spent to help women, especially those whoes husbands have run off leavin' them to take care of *their* kids....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 08:53 PM

I want an apology from the white male race for the enslavement of women for most of written history. And I demand my money!!!!!@!! The rest of you shaded dudes should send me money too!


guess who


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 08:20 PM

But if you're passin and I know it, your secret is safe with me.



Sista Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 08:18 PM

Traditionally, in the good ole US of A, it only takes one drop of "Black" blood to be considered Black.

That means that there's a whole lot of White Black people in this country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Kaleea
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 08:06 PM

So, uh, if some o' my "people" er, uh, ancestors, met some o' my other "people", uh, that is, other ancestors--a commin' acrost the plains & some of em was friendly but others wuzn't & done did some shootin' & then a bunch o' them thar dirty dog evil guv'mint fellerz a wearin' uniforms telled some o' my people thet they wuz to walk a looong trail to the promised land which was to later be tuk away, and them people thet did the walkin' was a mixin' it up wif some o my other people & didn't want anybody to know about the ancestors thet did the trail walkin & so kept on a mixin' it up till nobody nowhere remembered whut anybody wuz before the mixin'--so do I git some o' thet thar repair-ay-shun stuff fer the part o' me thet got all mixed up? Cuz I could really use some repair work--some nips & tucks, & new knees, and flab schloopin would be nice, not to mention that when I wave my upper arms wave back--boy could that use some repairin'!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 08:01 PM

Well, Martin... I'm sure you are quite supportive of the Holocost Musium and...

... I'm sho nuff glad that you aren't black because with yer self-righteous and very white attitudes most black folk who wouldn't give you the time of day... let alone stoop to spit in yer face...

Might of fact, from the responses you get around Mudville I'm purdy sure that in real life most of the folks around here would feel the same way about you...

But go ahead a drop a few cans of beans by the food closet so you can continue to feel that warm and fuzzy feelin' about being a regular community activist...

Haha...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: GUEST,PoppaGator
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 02:22 PM

Vis-a-vis Ebby's mention (a couple of posts previously) of the labor performed by Chinese folks out west, and how it was NOT "slavery":

Some of the "paid" (actually, underpaid) labor that built America's infrastructure, and that was assigned to various immigrant groups, was in a very real sense WORSE than slavery. It was so dangerous that economics dictated that human property not be risked by the employment of slaves.

The use of Chinese laborers ("coolies") in blasting rights-of-way through the western mountains for the transcontinental railroad is one good example. It's interesting to learn that these exploited workers were not even allowed to stay here if and when they survived upon completion of their work, but were deported back to China with their meagre earnings.

Another example of which I am especially aware was the use of Irish immigrants to dig the New Basin Canal in New Orleans back in the 1840s. The threat of disease (yellow fever and other tropical diseases) was so great that slaveowners refused to lease out their chattel to participate in the effort ~ their human property was too valuable to let them die in the effort to make civic improvements.

The first wave of famines in Ireland was just underway, and New Orleans quickly became the number-one US port of entry for Irish immigrants, because of the canal-digging jobs that were available. Once they arrived, however, so many died of disease that immigrants from Ireland to America forever after avoided New Orleans "like the plague." Statistically, an Irishman stood a better chance of survival by staying home and enduring the famine than by moving to New Orleans to dig the canal.

Ironically, native Louisianans (white and black, slave and free) would not have succumbed to the same diseases in any appreciable numbers. Current scientific opinion is that everyone who had survived childhood in the local environs had developed immunities to the various mosquito-borne diseases, while immigrants from elsewhere ~ not just from Ireland, but from anywhere in Europe and even from the northern US ~ were pretty much dead meat. Of course, no one at the time knew what we know today about disease, immunology,s.

The tendency of the immigrant groups (Italians and others as well as the Irish) to fall victim to these diseases in such great numbers became the basis of a widespread belief that the people themselves were dirty and unhealthy, a danger to "native Americans."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 01:00 PM

Interesting, Mary G. I spent most of my life in Oregon and never knew where Aloha got its name. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: mg
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 12:26 PM

I think the plaques idea is very good. In only one park I have seen is there a plaque that basically says this was the winter campground (I think) of this particular tribe, which I forget which one it was..but it is the Lewis and Clark park near Chehalis, Washington. I think these should at least be in all public lands. Now, Nahcotta, WA does have a plaque that says this was the summer camp of Chief Nahcotta.

There was, if not slavery, a form of indenture by Hudson's Bay of Hawaiaan people at Ft. Vancouver The King of Hawaii worked out a deal where his people would work for the fort and eventually be freed..many stayed on..hence the names Kalama WA and Aloha OR. They are excavating the Kanaka Village at Ft. Vancouver. More Hawaiaans than any other ethnic group worked there. Off the subject..a whole lot of Metis were on the original Lewis and Clark journey but you don't hear about it much.

More could be done on the plaques..not only recognizing the African Americans who built the buildings..but the Irish who carried the bricks and the Italians who carved the Frescoes..with their actual names if known. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: GUEST, Ebbie
Date: 21 Apr 05 - 01:03 AM

In Alaska, there eventually were reparations made to the indigenous people of the area. It took a long time and a lot of wrangling but it was felt important and necessary. There are, I believe, 13 corporations all over Alaska that were formed by the Native populations after the money was allocated and the lands claim act was enacted. The money is invested and managed by their boards with the aim of benefitting their people.

I don't know how the equivalent could be done for the indigenous people of the whole United States or for the descendants of the enslaved peoples. But it is a matter of history that a great many of the large buildings in a number of US cities, including New York, were designed by African Americans, plus much of the backbreaking labor was performed by slaves. Maybe just simple recognition of that truth - perhaps with plaques in appropriate places - would help educate many uninformed or racist Americans.

(Incidentally, someone said above that Chinese people had been enslaved on the West Coast- that's the first I've heard of that. It is true that dealers/promoters/whatever brought over boatloads of Chinese workers for certain jobs and projects and then returned them home- the Chinese were not allowed to stay. But they were paid. It was not slavery in any sense; rather, it was a mutually beneficial process. Don't get me wrong- I'm very well aware that the governing race - in this case, the whites - were not being altruistic.

And later, Chinese worked in mines and canneries and various institutions for very little money and in deplorable conditions and in return in some cases were raided in their homes and forcibly wrestled onto ships and taken south. (It happened both in Seattle, Washington and in Juneau. Alaska, and probably in other places.) Not too different a scenario from now, frankly. The white culture doesn't want to pick the fruit or vegetables for the amount of money paid itinerant workers but mightily resents that they are taking "our" jobs.

A good point was made by Sinsull above that even if Africans in many cases abducted other Africans and sold them to the slave traders, the urge to profit when a lucrative opportunity appears has probably always been a component of the human being. The white culture has certainly made it a fine art.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: beardedbruce
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 11:27 PM

http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/tocslavery.htm


http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1529/Slavery_today_yes_it_is_still_happening


and my previous post should have been the following- Sorry about that.

http://www.globalaware.org/Artlicles_eng/slave_art_eng.htm
http://www.socialaction.com/sudanfromshma.html
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0309/feature1/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/specials/1357_slavery_today/index.shtml

blue clickies seem frozen out right now...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 08:53 PM

dianavan, slavery is wrong no matter where, no matter who.

But I have a feeling our definitions of what slavery is might be different.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: GUEST,Spring Brucesteen
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 08:47 PM

"We didn't start the fire...."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: beardedbruce
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 08:24 PM

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-04-20-iraq_x.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: GUEST,Dipthong
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 07:00 PM

...the human race.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: GUEST,Dipthong
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 06:58 PM

It's a good day for the race...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Apr 05 - 06:23 PM

Only Two to go El Ted !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 11:59 PM

So Martin, if you are wretching about the 400 years of enslavement of Jews by Egyptians, why can't you see that slavery as it exists today is also wrong? Do you just turn a blind eye to the enslavement of others and prefer to think your people are the only ones that are hard done by? Its hard to feel sympathy for those    that has no sympathy for anyone else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 09:24 PM

bobert, your apology was self-serving and meant nothing. If I was black, which I am not, I would spit in your eye because you reached.

I am not embarrassed by the white race because I personally have enslaved no one and neither have any of my ancestors. But if it helps you move your bowels and your self esteem, I can enjoy you for the joke you are.

BTW, I have never heard the Jews ask the Egyptians for an apology or for anything to make up for 400 years of slavery, inclduing shlepping all of those big bricks to build the pyramids.

And your posts with their poor grammar and spelling are starting to make John from Hull's posts look like he is an English teacher from Harvard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 07:51 PM

Seems like we scared everyone off, MiziAzizi.... Hmmmmmm? I guess Littel Hawk must be on one of his pilgrimages to the top of the mountain to hang with some of his rock (no, not rock music but real, ahhhh, rocks) friends 'er he'd certainly stop in at this juncture and throw a few peas into the pot...

And I know I didn't *have* to apologize but, hey, it's part of what I can do an' maybe some other white folks might feel a little better about the embaressments of the white race if they did the same... It's kinda like another way of sayin' "Not in my name"...

And another thing it has done is shook the trolls off the thread 'casue it now places their values right there on the slide unner the microscope...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 08:51 AM

Dianavan,

Let me clarify that I never think that reading or talking about slavery or Black history is boring.

I meant to convey that sometimes I need to take a break from those subjects because they are too emotionally heavy duty for me.

Most of the times those subjects make me sad.

And sometimes they make me angry.

In my late teens and very early 20s, I went through a period when I hated some prominent historical and contemporary White people for their roles in the slavery, lynching, and institutionalizing second class citizenship.

At the same time I was desperatedly seeking Good White People so that I could convince myself that all White people weren't negative.

I am thankful that I came out on the other side of that hate tunnel, since hate poisons and diminishes the person who hates.

I have since found a number of "Good White People" and-Glory Be!- some of them even posts on Mudcat. [smile and seriously].

Like some other people here on Mudcat and elsewhere,
I believe that what people term 'race' and 'ethnicity' should just be considered valueless descriptors.

However, I am realistic enough to know that this is a goal and not a present day reality.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 08:29 AM

Bobert,

While I appreciate that apology from you, those who work to make this nation and the world a better place for all people without regard to race, creed, color, religion, sexual orientation, disability, and/or other things that might divide people, have no need to voice their apology to me for actions taken in the past or actions taken in the present.

Some Black people vehemently oppose the notion of a public apology in place of Reparations. Others see a formal public apology as a beginning whose intent is to lead towards Reparations from multinational corporations and nations. Still others see a public apology as enough. I am still studying the subject and waver between the 2nd and the 3rd option.

See this link on Reparations:

Reparations

I know that some African ethnic groups were very much involved in the slave trade. And I've read that some West Africans have publicly apologized for their ancestors' roles in the slave trade.

See this link for one African's apology:
African Bishop apologizes for slavery


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 07:59 AM

Thank you, Bobert.

On behalf of my African ancestors who were enslaved and on behalf of any other of my ancestors who were enslaved and myself, I accept your apology.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 07:29 AM

I like Aziz'z idea of a "Public Apology" and was disappointed when it was talked about in the 90's that it didn't come to fruition. I think it would have represented a very important step forward toward civility and in not doing it when it was being talked about represented a step backwards...

There are folks who like to throw around the term "personal responsibilty" yet have no interest in our society steppin' to the plate and confessin' one big ol' sin in our history?!?!.... See, I don't get that and what it tacitly says is that bad behavior is okeedokeee... Welll, it wasn't back then and it ain't today wither...
It's no wonder that the American people were so easily tricked in invading Iraq... If folks don't hold themselve accountable, as in "personal responsibility, then it easy to justify all kinds of immoral stuff...

Talk about not ownin' up, the '06 budget proposed by Bush is as immoral a budget that has ever been proposed and *disporportunately* hurts black women and children by cutting programs aimed to help impoverished people in inner cities...

                But back to "The Apolgy":

((((As one American citizen, I am truely sorry that my country engaeged in slavery. It was immoral and disgusting and a chapter of our history that we should teach our children about in a manner that would make them better citizens and better able to not be able to rationalize immoral policies. To all black Americans who are descendants of slaves, I am very sorry.))))

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 03:46 AM

Yes, Azizi, I would be happy to pluralize my statement to include Europe.

In fact, if you look at slavery in the world today (and it still exists) I would say that an all out end to it would be just about the best way to apologize to anyone who has suffered the degradation of slavery. Check this out for a start:

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/slavery1.html

Maybe its time. I would rather see the energy of the moral majority (and they are a major political force) being directed toward ending slavery worldwide than supporting a war which has only increased human misery and lined the pockets of the war profiteers. I hope I see the day!

I can see how the race and/or slavery question gets boring. Its kinda like people saying I don't look Native or asking me about totem poles or Native spirituality. ;>)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 02:19 AM

Let me correct my mistakes in the last post:

My other posts were tangential to the main topic of this thread..

[I'm mindful of the need to make these corrections since I went on record and stated that I write and speak Standard English.]

LOL!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 02:14 AM

Not that it matters a heck of alot, but I want to note that I 'mispoke' when I said I had only had one other post to this thread. But that other post were tangential to the main topic..


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 02:04 AM

I agree with you, Dianavan, and would just amend your statement to pluralize it.

There were African ethnic groups involved in the slave trade {as my only other post to this thread mentions}. However, European nations, the Caribbean nations, and South American nations etc that were colonized by European nations, and the United States {including the North} profited from the slave trade and the institution of chattel slavery.

As an African American, I have read this thread with interest.

Frankly, I'm a bit tired of talking about the topic of race..After all, I've often been in situations where I am called upon to talk about this topic-formally and informally..and it gets to be a bit much..And my interests force me to read about slavery and history and that also becomes difficult to bear sometimes, so I have to leave it alone and think of less heavy duty topics.

I found some echo of my feelings on being Black and having to represent and learn about slavery in this link:

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. letters

Here is a link for a book review that discusses Europe and the slave trade

Europe and the Slave trade

And here is one that discusses Afrikan involvement in the slave trade:

Afikan Involvement in The Slave Trade

{the spelling "Afrikan" is one that some Afro-centric Blacks use}

I also notice that one topic of debate on this thread is Reparations. Frankly, I'm not holding my breath for any reparations..But a Formal Apology from all involved in supporting the slave trade would be nice...

For those who want to read up on the topic, as I am doing, here's an interesting article:

The Reparations Debate

And if GUEST,Koonta {as in Kunta Kinte of Roots fame?} is real,
I hope he or she sticks around and joins in further discussion and actually joins this dicussion forum.

That's an invitation if he or she needs one...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 12:50 AM

Koonta - What you got to remember is that for a slave trade to exist on the scale that it did in Africa, there had to be a very large force driving the market. Those ships were not African.

Sure, there are always those who will profit from the misery of their brothers and sisters but it wasn't African plantations which needed the free labour to build a rich nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 05:46 PM

Hey, Martin, yer the one who seems do distraught... Maybe yer the one who needs to leave...

I'm happy to live in this country and fir the most part happy with my neighbors and the folks in my community. That is why it is me, not you with yer little food closet, who is very involved with many community projects...You see, that's what good citizens do... That's why, if you'll check out the times of the day I'm here are limited to a little bit in the am and some evenings 'cause I'm out in the community trying to make stuff better for my fellow citizens. You opn the other hand are here slinging mUd at you neighbores morning, noon and night... Is that yer idea of being a good American? Oh yeah and dropping a few canned goods by the food closet? Haha...

And, no, I don't want no medal fir it so don't even offer... I do it because service to one's fellow man of one's community is worth more than all the insults you can think up if you had a million years to think them up...

With every post you are doing nuthin' but proving my point... No, I'm not loosin' any discussions because I am on the pro-human side of the equation and therefore can't loose... Sure, you and folks likeyou can pay people to kill us but you will never win, neither in this life or the next... Your debts will be paid...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's Race Thread
From: Once Famous
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 03:14 PM

bobert, you are the poster boy for irrational radicals. It's obviously apparent that you have lost your thin cool and realize that you have lost this debate and many others, especially in my anti-semitism thread. You are what's wrong with this country just spreading a lot of lies and hate. You will NEVER be happy in America, bobert. You haven't been yet and you never will.

You are a detriment to this country and to the fairness of this website.

if you don't like it here bobert among the patriots and the non-biased who are still not clinging to a dead and buried old hippie 1960s ideology, I would suggest that you join a forum about gardening.

Wake up and smell the coffee bobert and quit smelling all of that pot, already.


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