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BS: Telling someone to F... off politely

GUEST,12 String Stan 27 Mar 05 - 10:24 AM
Amos 27 Mar 05 - 10:27 AM
Sorcha 27 Mar 05 - 10:31 AM
gnu 27 Mar 05 - 10:37 AM
GUEST,Jon 27 Mar 05 - 10:40 AM
katlaughing 27 Mar 05 - 11:02 AM
Once Famous 27 Mar 05 - 11:04 AM
Bill D 27 Mar 05 - 11:11 AM
The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 11:17 AM
Stilly River Sage 27 Mar 05 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,Jon 27 Mar 05 - 11:33 AM
GUEST,Jon 27 Mar 05 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 12:05 PM
Uncle_DaveO 27 Mar 05 - 12:27 PM
SINSULL 27 Mar 05 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,Jon 27 Mar 05 - 12:38 PM
The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 01:21 PM
Clinton Hammond 27 Mar 05 - 01:23 PM
The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 01:25 PM
MaineDog 27 Mar 05 - 01:32 PM
catspaw49 27 Mar 05 - 01:45 PM
Once Famous 27 Mar 05 - 01:55 PM
kendall 27 Mar 05 - 02:23 PM
GUEST 27 Mar 05 - 02:26 PM
Richard Bridge 27 Mar 05 - 02:54 PM
Strollin' Johnny 27 Mar 05 - 03:22 PM
Chanteyranger 27 Mar 05 - 03:44 PM
GUEST 27 Mar 05 - 07:18 PM
Once Famous 27 Mar 05 - 08:39 PM
Pauline L 27 Mar 05 - 11:48 PM
Seamus Kennedy 28 Mar 05 - 12:22 AM
GUEST,Jon 28 Mar 05 - 03:05 AM
kendall 28 Mar 05 - 06:36 AM
mooman 28 Mar 05 - 07:52 AM
GUEST,12 string stan 28 Mar 05 - 09:26 AM
GUEST,Partridge 29 Mar 05 - 04:10 AM
GUEST,brucie 29 Mar 05 - 04:36 AM
GUEST 29 Mar 05 - 04:45 AM
GUEST 29 Mar 05 - 02:38 PM
Peace 29 Mar 05 - 02:41 PM
Seamus Kennedy 29 Mar 05 - 03:05 PM
robomatic 29 Mar 05 - 04:19 PM
Uncle_DaveO 29 Mar 05 - 04:59 PM
jacqui.c 29 Mar 05 - 05:34 PM
GUEST 29 Mar 05 - 08:45 PM
number 6 29 Mar 05 - 10:29 PM
GUEST,Chip2447 30 Mar 05 - 12:33 AM
GUEST,Jon 30 Mar 05 - 03:33 AM
GUEST,Mappa Mundi. 30 Mar 05 - 05:12 AM
GUEST 30 Mar 05 - 08:50 AM
number 6 30 Mar 05 - 06:18 PM
GUEST,GUEST ( billy ) 30 Mar 05 - 10:12 PM
LadyJean 31 Mar 05 - 01:27 AM
Boab 31 Mar 05 - 02:05 AM
GUEST,KB 31 Mar 05 - 04:11 AM
Hand-Pulled Boy 31 Mar 05 - 07:53 PM
Boab 01 Apr 05 - 04:33 AM
Sttaw Legend 01 Apr 05 - 04:56 AM
MudGuard 01 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM
GUEST,12 string stan 01 Apr 05 - 01:01 PM
rock chick 02 Apr 05 - 03:02 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Apr 05 - 03:31 AM
The Shambles 02 Apr 05 - 06:50 AM
Dave Hanson 02 Apr 05 - 09:56 AM
Peace 02 Apr 05 - 11:33 AM
Dave Hanson 03 Apr 05 - 03:59 AM
Peace 03 Apr 05 - 05:24 PM
s6k 03 Apr 05 - 05:29 PM
LilyFestre 03 Apr 05 - 05:56 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Apr 05 - 07:49 PM
GUEST,Jon 03 Apr 05 - 08:46 PM
LilyFestre 03 Apr 05 - 10:14 PM
GUEST,Jon 04 Apr 05 - 04:28 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 04 Apr 05 - 05:15 AM
The Shambles 04 Apr 05 - 06:16 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 04 Apr 05 - 06:51 AM
GUEST,Deni-C 04 Apr 05 - 07:24 AM
The Shambles 04 Apr 05 - 08:06 AM
GUEST,Jon 04 Apr 05 - 09:00 AM
GUEST,Jon 04 Apr 05 - 09:02 AM
LilyFestre 04 Apr 05 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,Jon 04 Apr 05 - 10:10 AM
Richard Bridge 04 Apr 05 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,Jon 04 Apr 05 - 12:11 PM
mooman 04 Apr 05 - 12:29 PM
GUEST,The Shambles 04 Apr 05 - 07:24 PM
The Shambles 05 Apr 05 - 09:48 AM
Richard Bridge 05 Apr 05 - 07:11 PM
YorkshireYankee 05 Apr 05 - 08:18 PM
The Shambles 06 Apr 05 - 06:55 AM
Hawker 06 Apr 05 - 06:19 PM
Alba 06 Apr 05 - 07:32 PM
The Shambles 07 Apr 05 - 06:25 AM
mooman 07 Apr 05 - 09:13 AM
Richard Bridge 07 Apr 05 - 12:15 PM
gnu 07 Apr 05 - 01:57 PM
GUEST,saulgoldie 07 Apr 05 - 02:04 PM
Liz the Squeak 07 Apr 05 - 02:30 PM
Liz the Squeak 07 Apr 05 - 02:31 PM
Liz the Squeak 07 Apr 05 - 02:31 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM
GUEST 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM
gnu 07 Apr 05 - 02:47 PM
GUEST,Jon 07 Apr 05 - 02:49 PM
GUEST,Not that guest, nor the other one... 07 Apr 05 - 02:52 PM
MaineDog 07 Apr 05 - 03:01 PM
GUEST,Jon 07 Apr 05 - 03:09 PM
gnu 07 Apr 05 - 03:10 PM
Liz the Squeak 07 Apr 05 - 03:14 PM
gnu 07 Apr 05 - 03:24 PM
Peace 07 Apr 05 - 08:02 PM
Liz the Squeak 08 Apr 05 - 03:20 AM
mooman 08 Apr 05 - 04:31 AM
Margo 09 Apr 05 - 12:52 AM
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Subject: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,12 String Stan
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 10:24 AM

I have a dilema.
I put this in BS: as i feel it's not strictly musicially related, although in a way it is.

I host every Tuesday, a session in our local pub, where friends and other musicans, and so on, are all welcome to join in the merriment, and we generally have a good time, but of late a curse has befallen us. A young chap (20) has moved to town and insists on coming to the session every week. Now PLEASE do not get me wrong, I believe all musicans good bad or indifferent, professional or amateur deserve the right to display the fruits of their musical ability, and no better place than a session for such. His weapons consist of Guitar, whistle Bodhran and when drunk, the banjo. Problem being the dear chap has not got one ounce of musical ability in his body. He carries no sense of timing, No sense of order or politeness when others are performing, And generally upsets and destroys what could be a good night.

We have politely corrected him, suggested subtly about "leaving the instrument down for this one" and all other polite suggestions, which fell on either deaf or totally stupid ears, as the situation has not changed he has thrown us out of sets totally, making us hang tunes in mid air, and is becoming a real nuisance. Of late i have had a few stern words with him, which sink in for about an hour but then all is forgotten. I really need a failproof method of letting him know that he is not really welcome,without hurting his feelings too much

I KNOW this has to have happened to others, and just wondered if you would have any thoughts on the subject

I remind you again, I fully support young, up and coming and learning musicans but this chap really is a special case.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 10:27 AM

Give him an evasive answer. Tell him "Fuck off, politely".

It is possible you will just have to inform him he has abused his welcome, and the protocol;s of the group, too often and will be debarred.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 10:31 AM

Move the session and don't tell him?


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: gnu
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 10:37 AM

In addition to the posts you will get on this thread, I know there are at leats two others in the past dealing with this. I can't recall the thread names right off, but a forum search may bring you results. I would search, but I have to buzz pretty soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 10:40 AM

I think it's a situation we all dread. Fortunately ones I have known have taken the hints and frosty reception.

You are just going to have to do whatever it takes. Try it politely at first but if he can't see it, you are going to have to tell him he's not welcome one way or other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:02 AM

Suggest he take some lessons and come back after he's improved?

Probably being honest is the best and only thing which will really get through, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:04 AM

An open and honest, "fuck off, please?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:11 AM

" while we appreciate that you are interested & trying, you do not seem to realize that you are not keeping up and fitting in, and the entire session is suffering. If you cannot handle the minimum requirements for music and awareness of the rules, we would ask that you drop out or just mostly listen, as the whole group is suffering from the situation...perhaps some private lessons would help...." etc.

*shrug*...you can write something similar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:17 AM

If the session is held in a pub - to which all the public have free access to - the only thing in your power - if you really don't like the way the session is - is to leave it.

Sadly when you feel you have start telling other participants (no matter how annoying) how, when and what to play - the session is dead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:20 AM

Sounds like as the host you need to make up a new rule for the group. Does anyone in the regular membership teach any of his instruments? You can suffer along for a while, or you can antagonize him with the rude dismissal and create some bad feelings (and who knows, possibly a retaliation?), or you can insist that if he keeps coming then he has to take lessons from So-and-so. During the course of the lessons the discussion needs to regularly and pointedly go into proper demeanor at this kind of session.

At that age, and with that interest level, he sounds like someone who could really benefit from guidance with a firm hand. Who knows what else he might be up to, otherwise?

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:33 AM

Not at all Shambles. If the guy is as bad as the first post suggests, the only certainty is that the session would die if he keeps playing.

Without him, the session may well keep going for years and still open doors to others without the need to have any rules.

Accepting poor players is one thing but there are some players who are destructive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:36 AM

Not at all Shambles. If the guy is as bad as the first post suggests, the only certainty is that the session would die if he keeps playing.

Without him, the session may well keep going for years and still open doors to others without the need to have any rules.

Accepting poor players is one thing but there are some players who are destructive.

Be honest, how long would you and your session put up with me if I came down weekly and battered an out of time bodhran loudly and say interspersed it with thrashing bad chords on the banjo. I could make it quite impossible for any of you to enjoy your music.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 12:05 PM

Be honest, how long would you and your session put up with me if I came down weekly and battered an out of time bodhran loudly and say interspersed it with thrashing bad chords on the banjo. I could make it quite impossible for any of you to enjoy your music.

We already have someone who does that - thank you......' Sadly they do appear to driven some of the less tolerant regular attendees away. It is sad and very irritating but it is not my pub.

For you first do have to accept the limitations of where you are playing. For where does it stop? Do you then start telling the noisy bunch at the bar to leave the pub? The licensee will probably throw you out if you started picking and choosing his customers for them.

I did say that it was sad but if folk don't follow the conventions - this does not give you the right to start flouting them too. There is no polite way of telling someone to **** ***.

Our long-running tune session - currently has one person who has attended for some time and is fully aware of this convention but still tries every week to turn it into something else - by starting to sing even though there are song sessions elsewhere locally and even - on the same night.

Probably as a result of the previous week being on 'Paddy's' Night' - where a gesture was made towards a more party feel - an attempt to sing Dirty Old Town was followed this week by an attempt at The Wild Rover. I left the session at that point - and if the same thing happens again - I will leave again.........


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 12:27 PM

If you had or have control of the venue, several of you organize a private session club, (with wallet membership cards, no less?) The old, open session is closed down.

New member applicants can/must attend three times before being voted on for membership; after three they must be voted on. If rejected by vote of the membership, it's permanent. So you endure him for three times, and then vote. Well, whadaya know? He didn't get enough votes. G'bye!

Oh, it's in a pub? Durn, that is a problem.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: SINSULL
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 12:32 PM

Assign someone to sit next to him and gently give him a nudge when he offends. "No" in his ear with a warning ahead of time that it will happen if he throws off another player. Good luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 12:38 PM

Agreed there are limits. I'd not start telling noisy people at the bar to shut up. I think participants in the session are another matter - it can't even be good for the landlord if one person at the "musicians' table" is disrupting procedings. Fortunately it's been a few years since I remember a session being ruined and I think in the ones I go to now, I wouldn't be the first to speak up.

I'm afraid I don't worry too much about being polite to someone like the person in your instrumental session. I do enjoy the occasional song but the session I like best is purely instrumental. When I first went there I didn't burst into song but found out what the feeling in that session was towards singing. I do believe when people move in on an established session, they should make the effort to fit in with what other participants may even have been enjoying together for years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:21 PM

Agreed there are limits. I'd not start telling noisy people at the bar to shut up.

Yes but people like me (who would be thought by some to be the type who would bully barmaids) would not be adverse to this...*smiles*

Hey - the question posed in this thread is not an anology - is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:23 PM

"he is not really welcome,without hurting his feelings too much"

Why be a pussy... Especially when a good "Fuck Off" is quick and easy...


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:25 PM

I think one of the problems is that if you (as session leader or organiser or whatever) are seen to be laying down rules in a pub - like no singing etc - some folk seem to see that as a red-rag to a bull and will then do their best to just to mess things-up for everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: MaineDog
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:32 PM

Make a recording of one of these sessions. Make a CD of it, lable it
"Starring " Give it to him, and tell him you hope he likes it. Then pray.

MD


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:45 PM

SHAMBLES: "Hey - the question posed in this thread is not an anology - is it?"

Works for me..........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:55 PM

Hey Clinton and I agree on something.

find your balls.

I am lucky that I play in a bi-weekly bluegrass/accoustic jam that is held at a church. We get these loser types come in pretty often. One by one we just leave and go into another room. There are about 3 or 4 different jams going on at any given time. The beginners are always encourage to play with the advanced players until it is obvious that they just screw it up. Eventually, they find a room of beginners that they fit in with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: kendall
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 02:23 PM

Listening to someone with no timing singing and playing off key is painful to me, and I don't go to sessions to be annoyed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 02:26 PM

Then there are the "noodlers" who constantly pick out of turn like they are the only ones in a circle, preventing the person whos turn it is from getting started. What are they thinking? Are they stupid or just oblivious?


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 02:54 PM

I could not accept excluding singers from tune sessions or instrumentalists from song sessions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 03:22 PM

Someone said that he can't be excluded because the session's in a pub - I'd seriously question that assertion. If the session is organised by the landlord that may be true but, if it's organised by a group of customers then surely they, the organising group, have a pretty big say on who can join in? In the latter case, although you can't stop this guy coming in to the pub, you surely can ask him not to play? Give him a full and frank explanation, if he insists on playing then there's no option - tell him to Foxtrot Oscar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 03:44 PM

What Bill D said. If that fails, then what Martin said.

Chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 07:18 PM

be a man!!
have the guts to tell him to fuck off
.or punch some sense into the stupid boy


btw .. you sound like a right condecending ****


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 08:39 PM

And that is about as polite as I will say it to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Pauline L
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:48 PM

Bill D's suggestion is both direct and diplomatic. I second the motion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 12:22 AM

Let him play as long as he fits in.
Then when he starts to get bothersome, everyone stop playing, put your instruments away, start drinking, and let him play on his own.
Repeat as necessary.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 03:05 AM

Never seen that in a session Seamus but I remember something similar happen in a folk club. Somone had a floor spot and was quite drunk. He took it upon himself to wind the PA up high. It was a nice summer evening and somone suggested we should take our drinks outside. Everyone did this and he was left entertaining himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: kendall
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 06:36 AM

Good one Guest Jon.
If one can't outsmart an asshole, well...


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: mooman
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 07:52 AM

A different perspective maybe...

After 30 odd years of playing in sessions I've seen a few of these. A "polite" f*** o** (if there is such a thing) is not really a satisfactory solution. If he does go....he will probably go and do the same at somebody else's pub session somewhere else. You say he hasn't any musical ability or etiquette but not all mortals are born with these virtues. Is there any possibility, inside or outside the session, of working with him to help him in these areas?

I have seen, and have on one or two occasions helped, such "basket cases" achieve at least some level of proficiency and sensitivity. (Indeed that is one reason why I tend to teach more than gig these days, as I find helping others infinitely more satisfying). He obviously has some degree of motivation, as he has several instruments and comes along every week, and might appreciate that approach and the desire of others to help him integrate better.

It's true too that sometimes you can't in the end do much to help some people and then possibly honesty (without rudeness) may the best solution (I've had to do that too but rarely).

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,12 string stan
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 09:26 AM

Soree for deserting the thread for a bit.
A few good points raised above, but i failed to mention, the notion of perhaps nuturing his festering ability will not work, because in his eyes, he is one of the best musicians that ever walked the earth, and has no need to stoop as low as to be listening to constructive critisism about himself.

To clear up the setting of the session raised early on, the story is thus
5 years ago one of the local publicans asked us to do a tuesday night session for two weeks, which went so well, it was extended for a month, which went so well it was extended for the summer, which went so well, well it's 5 years later now and a regular fixture, firm favourite with local musicians and customers.
The pub is split into three bars, the first one you walk into through the door is where we host the session. Myself and 2 friends are the main stays of the session (we get paid) and on average are joined by 8 other musicians, sometimes more, sometimes less, who come for the evening out, and nothing else, Amongst the crowd are always a handfull of talented local singers who are called upon to do their piece, and generally good order is, well, the order of the day. If people have no interest in the music, they take themselves off to one of the other bars, leaving us to it, as it should be.
As the person who was asked to start it, it is me who is the host, m/c of the night and we have a good time, so it therefore falls on my head to keep the session in good order, which is where the problem lies, Maybe as suggested, i should just tell him to FUCK OFF, but i would feel soooo bad for doing so, although i'm sure there'd be a round of applause and a few drinks got for me!!
Till later catters!


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Partridge
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 04:10 AM

Get someone to be a stooge - a pretend newcomer. Tell him in front of everyone "the rules" Get your stooge to question why you have such rules. You can then have an open discussion about them so that your problem musician knows whats expected. When he next breaks a rule - get the stooge to stand up and point it out to him. Hopefully that might work. You could also try a prayer to the angel of the music session

Pat x


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 04:36 AM

Sorry, Stan, but I fail to see why you feel you must be polite when he is not. The next time he picks up the banjo when he shouldn't, tell him to put the thing down or he will have to leave. In some places (I understand) even the mere possession of a bodhran is call for a lynching.

The problem may be that y'all are being TOO polite. Just tell him to either get with the program or het without it. Simple, IMO, and effective.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 04:45 AM

Start by owning the problem. Then tell him about your problem eg "John, I have a problem when you join in with me on this song: your interpretation is so different from mine. I'd be grateful if you'd not play" This is what each person who is concerned must do - if they want him not to play, tell him.

If there are no tunes he can play with, and he joins in to the detriment of the music despite requests not to, stop playing. Have a drink and talk for five minutes


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 02:38 PM

Ask him to play a lttle quieter.

Ask if he can play in time.


Keep on asking him.

Ask him ,please dont play the banjo.

When he plays the bod ask if he can use brushes

Youre new to all this arent you?

Have you considered music lessons?

Will the landlord speak to him?








cough


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 02:41 PM

Sit next to him, put your arm around his shoulder and

1) kiss his neck
2) tell him you have crabs
3) sneeze on his shirt


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 03:05 PM

If the polite method hasn't worked, then I once again suggest trying my way.
Of course, all your regular musicians have to agree to do it.
When he starts, put your instruments away, grab your beers and either talk among yourselves, or go outside.
I actually saw this work at a session, and no, I wasn't the cause of it.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 04:19 PM

$10 fine or drinks all round whenever playing out of tune, to be determined by majority.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 04:59 PM

I really like what Robomatic said: The fine. Establish the fine by (prearranged) vote when he's there. Of course, given your description of him, he'll run afoul of it. Call him on it. He'll either pay up grudgingly, with protest, or walk out.

If he pays up, given who he seems to be, he'll run afoul of it again. (And again and again?)

Eventually he'll either shape up (you should live so long) or stop coming around.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: jacqui.c
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 05:34 PM

I agree with Brucie. Why feel bad about making it clear to this person that he is spoiling the evening for every one else?

It seems that we are conditioned to put up with all sorts of crap because 'it isn't NICE to be rude to other people'. Well, this isn't being rude, it's just stating a fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 08:45 PM

We want you to learn by being here but you aren't advanced enough to play with us, yet. So listen, only. please. Thank you. .


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: number 6
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 10:29 PM

Well said mooman.

I agree with you. Why discourage someone. Who knows with a little help they could be an outstanding musician.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Chip2447
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 12:33 AM

Music snobs, the lot of you. More of the elitist crap that flows like water around here. Maybe you should look back on your own time as a brash youngster and remember how shitty you played, or how no one could tell you anything because you knew it all. Some of you can't deny it, because you've never outgrown it.

Either take him in and teach him, or move your session elsewhere.
Take your elitest snobbish selves and fuck off.

Music isnt just for those of you who are good at what you do. Music is for everyone, especially FOLK MUSIC.

I've been a member here for a long time, and am by the standards of most of the 'Catters) I am nothing more than a rank(read that as stinky) musician/singer/songwriter. You think that will
stop me from doing what I love. You've got another thing coming. Tell me to fuck off and I'll just grit my teeth and sing louder.

Chip2447 (slam away)


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 03:33 AM

Speak for yourself Chip2447. I was not like that and I know plenty of others who weren't. A lot of people do recognise the better players and even go as far as trying to learn from them.

I've never thought the attitude described as an age thing. I've known middle age people start and know it all with in a week. A difficulty is they tend to lack listening skills both ways a) to the music being played (which one can do while playing) and b) to any comments made.

That said, maybe mooman is right and there is a chance but even he say's he's met some you can't win with. Whatever, I don't see not wanting a session being ruined as being elitist. As I indicated before, there is a big difference between a weak player (somone I hope we all accept and try to help) and a destructive player (someone who is usually loud, incompetent and lacking in any social awareness).


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Mappa Mundi.
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 05:12 AM

Hire a bouncer! or tell me where your club is and i'll - ahem, ask him to leave for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 08:50 AM

This story sorta reminds me of one I heard about a young black guitar player back in the mid 60's. He was just out of the Army, trying to find a living playing in various R & B bands. He was constantly turned down, or kickout of the bands. They said he couldn't play worth a shit. Their version of politely or inpolitely telling him to f@$k off.

His name was Jimi Hendrix


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: number 6
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 06:18 PM

Interesting story Guest.

Who knows Mr. Hendrix was proabably thrown out of club by some buffoon bouncer like Mundi


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,GUEST ( billy )
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 10:12 PM

Not interesting at all number 6, just someone being a clever Dick with an inaccurate story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: LadyJean
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 01:27 AM

I'd suggest ignoring this guy. I mean, serious ignoring. Leave him out of conversations. Don't talk to him. Don't notice that he's playing with you. (Well you'll notice, but pretend you don't.) He won't like being invisible, and he'll go somewhere else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Boab
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 02:05 AM

Sounds easy---tell the guy to **** ***! But much depends on the personality of the rookie you're dealing with. If he/she is an obvious big-head, and without any justification for wearing that outsize hat, then **** *** ! is entirely deserved and appropriate. If he just hapens to be a "young hopeful", however, and depending for his "practice" on the forbearance of the more experienced sessioneers, then it becomes , for any decent m.c., a moral dilemma. If the guy himself is decent enough he will understand the upset he causes if it is pointed out to him. If obstinacy is his reaction---then tell him to **** ***!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 04:11 AM

I think the stealthy ignoring him, or stop playing when he plays, or leave the room etc are really quite unneccessarily nasty. I'd hate for that to happen to me & to have to try to figure out why - it just seems sly and childish ....
So I reckon you have to be honest with him - but it seems from your first post that you have already tried that & it failed.
So - given that you can't have an open-for-all session AND exclude someone : you either live with the situation & hope it passes/changes, or make it a closed session & tell him firmly that he is not included.

Kris


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 07:53 PM

What's his personality like? Is he an arrogant, obnoxious twat? Because killing him is an option. You can all chip in to fund a contract on him or do it yourself as it would be cheaper. Alternately why don't you show him this thread then he might commit suicide?


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Boab
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 04:33 AM

Hee-heee-hee! Hand-pulled boy---there are SOME extreme views that can be hilarious!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 04:56 AM

His problems started when he was very young


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: MudGuard
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 05:20 AM

It's a pub, so you as a guest can't really throw him out.
But then you say that you are paid by the pub owner - so you are wanted there.
Why then do you not ask your employer (a/k/a the pub owner) to throw him out? He should have the right to do it.
You could even "threaten" the pub owner that you won't come any longer when that person is not thrown out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,12 string stan
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 01:01 PM

Thanks for the comments, Heard a great one last night, This lad apparantly travells to a village 12 miles away on a thursday for their local session, I know the musicians, but seldom make it there, and never realised my 'friend' (Stephen's his name) participated in it, till i went last night
They, like me, are fed up of him. They unlike me are not so polite, and after an hour, he was called aside, and asked to play quieter, leave down the instruments, to no avail, and then the killer line was delivered.

"Stephen, I'm sorry but we can no longer tolerate your disruption, we are going to have to ask you to pack up you instruments and leave the session, and when you learn a bit of music, and timing, you may come back and join in no problem" Stephen replies "I am playing perfectly in time, and have as much right to sit here and play as you do" Reply? "When you get paid by a publican for your music, you can call the shots, here we call the shots, now I'm asking you to fuck off and leave us alone"

He did, He threw me a look as he packed his cases, but i was too engrossed in the wallpaper. This may give me an opening for tuesday as i know he will be down and bring it up......
Till next time.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: rock chick
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 03:02 AM

On a different line i felt the same recently in tellling someone to F...O.. but they knew anyway so i didnt need to say anything in the end. Athough i am quite more than capable of doing it should i need to at some point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 03:31 AM

Perhaps something along the lines:-

I say old man, would it be too awful an imposition if I asked you to f--- off. We've had a whip round and there's a taxi outside to the Mexican border.

or a more subtle ploy

Hands up everybody who can play tonight. Not so fast Jim......think about the wording of that question.......people who CAN play, now is that you? I thinks that's what you need to be asking yourself.

or

Jim, I know you've heard about the early days of the folk revival, when anyone could have a go...well that periods over. It finished last week last week, after your contribution to the evening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 06:50 AM

This week I tackled the chap who insisted on singing at our tune session. There were three other singing sessions on this night - advertised locally where he could sing as much as he could. The missing regular partcipants did turn-up this week - so the problem of his insensitive insistence in playing loudly on tunes he does not know and often in the wrong key - remains to be addressed. But he did not try to sing this week.

When he arrived (and there was only one other session member present) I was very blunt. I said " ..... you are not going to insist on singing again this week - are you"?

He was very apolgetic and provided the expected excuses for previous attempts to keep changing the nature of the session. I just pointed out that what was done - was in the past but that if he wished to sing in the future - there were other places that he would be expected to go in order to do this. I accepted his apology - and made it clear that the matter should be dropped.

As no one else seemed to be aware that anything had been said and I did not mention it - there was a bit of intitial unease between the two of but this soon cleared when a few more participants arrived, a few tunes were played and a few pints were downed....


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 09:56 AM

I AM THE MESSIAH, NOW FUCK OFF.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 11:33 AM

If you really ARE the MESSIAH, please don't be offended when I point out that you have used a comma splice.

Signed,

Mehitabel


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 03:59 AM

No offence taken brucie, you will answer on judgement day [ and I don't mean Arnies film ]


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Peace
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 05:24 PM

LOL

Good one Eric. Had I not known you have a great sense of humour I would not have said that.

Bruce M


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: s6k
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 05:29 PM

if you want to tell him to fuck off but politely... then the best solution is to tell him to Feck off


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: LilyFestre
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 05:56 PM

Funny thing about telling folks to F*** off politely...I think it depends where in the world you live.

I lived in Atlanta for a period of time and was always amazed how the southern women could tell you to F** off in a manner that was so lovely....almost leaving the victim wanting to say thank you. I admire that...too bad I never learned the art beyond, well bless your sweet little heart.........

From my college roommate, who grew up in the Bronx, she would smile this smile that told me to get out of her way....no words needed. Other times she would tell folks directly to their face to shove a splintery telephone pole up their ass sideways...then she'd walk away. Usually mouths were left hanging wide open.....

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 07:49 PM

I have been considering this further. I have decided that teling people they cannot sing at a tune session is wholly unacceptable, as would be telling people they cannot play a tune at a song event. It is arrogance of an almost breathtaking kind.

I am also considering the mirror image, of the people who think they are so good that they don't want anyone else to join in (or play in their interval), but who, despite some considerable technical meretriciousness, have no soul, and, as a drummer friend of mine used to say, could not swing with a rope around their neck. On balance I am more likely to react adversely to those who think they are too good for others to be able to play with them.

Not that I often line up with organised religion, but something about casting out the beam that is in one's own eye comes to mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 08:46 PM

I'm in complete disagreement with you Richard. I don't care whether a session is purely instrumental, purely singing or some mix. I don't care whether a session is purely Irish, purely English, etc. or some mix. What I think is great is that the variety of options there are and that each session is different.

I feel it the height of ignorance and arrogance to muscle in on other peoples' sessions as a newcomer and start making demands like "this session should allow songs", etc. If they are good enough to welcome you in to thier session, I think the least you can do is try to fit in with the way they have been enjoying a session and quite possibly playing together for years.

On balance I am more likely to react adversely to those who think they are too good for others to be able to play with them.

I've not met many like that. Most people I've come accross do not worry about who is better than who. The problems tend to come in when someone plays loudly and makes mistakes like playing out of time - one can usualy cope if they play quietly. One "musician" can ruin a session for everyone. Have you for example ever tried playing with the type of bodhran "player" that gets the instrument such a bad name?


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: LilyFestre
Date: 03 Apr 05 - 10:14 PM

Hey Jon....have I got a session for you....they are mighty cold folks who welcome few to none, although they advertise that it's an open jam and all are welcome to join in or sit and listen. They don't mind the listeners but most definately are NOT welcoming to those who wish to play. It's a complete turn off for many in the community who might otherwise join them. Too bad. Their loss.

Michelle

PS. I'm glad to hear that the attitude of being above others is NOT the norm!


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 04:28 AM

I've never understood a lot of comments about hostile sessions, Michelle, as I have had few problems and it isn't because I'm a great player because I'm not - there are much better players than me in just about every session I go to...

My favourite session round here doesn't have the best of reputations and some will have it that it is snobbish or elitist but I was welcomed when I first went there I guess about 4 years ago. I suppose its fair to say that it is not a beginners' session (by that I mean maybe they would slow a couple of tunes down for someone starting to learn but generally speaking tunes run at a reasonable "danceable" pace) and it contains some excellent players but that is about it.

I do wonder at times whether people sometimes alienate themselves (eg. demanding a song in a purely instrumental session or perhaps demonstrating to everyone how "good" they are - "showing off" is not always appreciated) or expect too much of a welcome at once.

I say I was welcomed (as I was) but it took time. The first week, probably the most encouraging sign was that I was shown no hostility and people did say "hello" and "goodnight", the second week, they got me to start a couple of tunes a bit more conversation, and things built up gradually until these people became good friends. I'd not been able to get to a session since Christmas until last week and I was greeted to hugs and handshakes and even got a ticking off from one because I had arrived without my banjo.

I think what I'm trying to say is I think at times you do have to remember that you are a newcomer in an estabished group (in this case, some have known each other for more than 20 years) and they might be as nervous of you as you are of them. Had I read the first week as "well noone really said much to me and they didn't go 'wow we have a new player'" and decided that meant I wasn't really wanted, I'd have missed out on good music and good company.

I suppose ideally it is better if people are made to feel that little bit more wanted from day one but on top of everything else I said, I don't think all sessions contain the sort of extrovert character to do that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 05:15 AM

I have suffered at the hands of such individuals, agree amongst yourselves that when he joins in each and every person stops playing leaving him to carry on. Indicate (politely)to him that you cannot follow his rythym and that if he wishes to continue he can do so alone. Hopefully he may quickly get the message, otherwise the direct approach which you are trying to avoid may have to be resorted to in order to maintain the session, sadly you will lose more people by not taking the direct approach as others will drift away


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 06:16 AM

I have been considering this further. I have decided that teling people they cannot sing at a tune session is wholly unacceptable, as would be telling people they cannot play a tune at a song event. It is arrogance of an almost breathtaking kind.

I think it is arrogance of a breathtaking kind - to place other people in the position of feeling that they have a choice to either spell-out - what is blindingly obvious - or be imposed upon.

If you had a pub with limited space - it may be convention that on certain nights the pool table was used and on others that it would be covered-up to allow darts to be played in the same area.

It would be arrogance of a breathtaking kind for someone - in full knowledge of this convention - to arrive and insist on un-covering the pool table to play pool - when the rest of people present attended on the understanding that it was a darts night.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 06:51 AM

It is also breathtakingly arrogant to join in with someone and bugger up their performance. Either the person in question lacks a degree of awareness or he couldn't give a monkeys. If the former he needs to be advised of the unwritten etiquette the majority adhere to or, if the latter, he needs to be told to go away ... in short jerky movements if necessary


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Deni-C
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 07:24 AM

In our folk club we had a slip with a few pointers of etiquette on them. If someone gets a bit too much you can just pass them a slip and ask them to have a read. Some people just don't take hints. Sounds like this chap might be one of them.
Cheers
Deni


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 08:06 AM

Speaking as both singer of songs and a tune player - I would never presume to change the obvious nature of a session and would expect not to very popular - if I did. The object is surely to contribute to and enhance the tune session - not to star in it - or change it?

There is is a more arrogance displayed in being perfectly aware of the convention that this particlar event is not for singing - and flying in the face of this convention - by not only only insisting that one song won't hurt - but by further making the assumption that they alone should be the singer of this single song.

The folk who still insist on singing at a tune session - appear to do it in the expectation of everyone else stopping to listen to them - and of receiving applause. Perhaps their singing would not receive the same attention - (mainly as a novelty to wall-to-wall tunes - and stand-out) - if they were singing along with other singers at a song session?

Perhaps this is the main reason some singers will still insist on flouting convention and imposing their singing on a tune session and of excusing this arrogance?

Do they not accept that there may be many others who may also wish to sing a song at a tune session - but do not do so - as they are respecting the convention and each other? Surely if it is accepted by the determined singer that there will be limited time for any singing - it should be accepted that it is better for no one to sing?

I am always amazed when this arrogance is displayed and a song is imposed by the singer upon the members of a tune session. For very rarely have I witnessed any reciprocal rudeness. Perhaps this undeserved politeness is mistakenly excused for approval and acceptance?


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 09:00 AM

I think it is true that singers sometimes do forget that quite a few people in purely instrumental sessions do also sing. I think out of our regular core of say 12, I've heard 4 (or 5 if you count me) sing in other settings and it's quite possible that out of the remainder there are other singers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 09:02 AM

And on 2 seconds more thought I've just remembered hearing one other singing. So we are up to 50% already...


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 09:08 AM

Hey Jon,

I'd PM you but you are signed in as a Guest and do you have any idea how many Jon's there are in the list to pick from? LOL

   In any case, I just wanted to mention that the particular group I was speaking of is cold to most new folks. I only went the one time but I have heard from others that the type of behavior I observed was typical. I arrived early at the jam and went in to inquire about what kind of music they played, etc. I didn't even take my instrument in the building. The attitude I received was snotty and incredibly unwelcoming. I did not ask to lead any songs or anything like that at all. I hadn't even told these people what instrument I play. I decided that maybe they were having an off day and decided to sit and listen. I'm not interested in showing off or running the show...I just wanted to play.

    I'm a bit shy around new folks so I thought perhaps it was me...but having heard others having the same experience, I'm sure it is just as cliquey as I felt it to be.

   I have attended other jams in the area. One of them was open to EVERYBODY and if it was your first time playing or your 10,001st time playing, the people were encouraging and we usually had a grand time. The easier songs were played earlier in the evening and then progressed as the night went on. If there was something you couldn't play, didn't know or were just plain tired of playing, that was fine too. It was informal and fun.

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 10:10 AM

Hmm Michelle, I can't see why they should want to be snotty with you for asking a perfectly reasonable question... From what you have said, I can only assume this particular group are not worthy of your company. Glad you have found better places.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 11:44 AM

Funny thing is that it mainly seems to be the music sessions that object to singing, not vice versa.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 12:11 PM

Richard, in a mostly instrumental session, songs are often solos and tunes are generally for all to join in with. Also, singers tend to need/demand a greater degree of silence than musicians. I don't mind and sometimes enjoy the occasional song in that type of situation and sometimes even give a song myself.

That said there is a limit to how many times people who have come primarily to play music together want to shut up and listen. Apart from anything else, it can break the flow of a session. In my experience, a group of a dozen or more musicians rarely get really together until a few sets of tunes have been played and if you are stopping and starting for singers every other set of tunes, the evening may never get into full flow.

As I said, my own choice is to have a few songs - maybe 3 or 4 in an evening (unless it's a late night and too much beer has been consumed... when maybe there is room for more singing...) but I can understand why some instrumental sessions prefer just to have no singing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: mooman
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 12:29 PM

Richard,

Not in my experience!

Richard


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 07:24 PM

Funny thing is that it mainly seems to be the music sessions that object to singing, not vice versa.

And for the very good reasons already given........

However, it also seems that tunes sessions are the only ones that are forced to be placed in the position of having to object.

As I say - few tune session particpants do object. But that does not make the practice of insisting on flouting the convention - the correct or the polite thing to do.

When you attend a song session - you accept that you will be part of an audience - rather than a participant - for most of the evening - waiting for your turn to lead a song (except for joining in the chorus).

When you attend a song session - you expect that you will not be part of an audience at all - but a participant for most of the evening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 09:48 AM

DUH!!!

It should read.......

When you attend a song session - you accept that you will be part of an audience - rather than a participant - for most of the evening - waiting for your turn to lead a song (except for joining in the chorus).

When you attend a TUNE session - you expect that you will not be part of an audience at all - but a participant for most of the evening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 07:11 PM

Not so. Most song sessions welcome participation, instrumental or vocal.

Self-aggrandising diddlers, enjoy the ghetto you are building for yourselves. May you never accept that someone else might be just as good as you are. How else could you stay pure?


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 08:18 PM

I know of song sessions that discourage and/or don't allow instruments... due to folks' experiences with inconsiderate instrumentalists, such as:

• the one who starts noodling about on their instrument as soon as a song finishes, pre-empting anyone else from having a go (also mentioned by Guest on 27 March)

• the one who enthusiastically "accompanies" the singers – in a different key...

• the one who accompanies – in the right key, but doesn't pay attention to the tempo set by the person singing the song; you can generally cope with one person singing at a slightly different tempo, but an instrument is overpowering enough that everyone ends up at the same tempo as the instrument, whether they wished to or not...

Richard, I'm surprised that you consider it arrogant for a group to decide whether they want their session to involve singing or jamming only (or both). I confess that I think it's entirely reasonable. Heck, you don't go to a Def Leppard concert and say "I want to hear some Cole Porter. Why won't you play "Begin the Beguine?" would it be arrogant for them to say 'You can bloody forget the Beguine, and no, we won't be letting you sing "My Heart Belongs to Daddy" during the interval, either...'?

It's not "singers" or "instrumentalists" who are arrogant, of course; there are always folks – of every persuasion – who are insensitive/oblivious and/or arrogant and who – consciously or not – impose upon others unless boundaries are set. I don't consider it arrogant to set boundaries, nor to say "This behaviour is extremely disruptive to the group and will not be permitted"; what is arrogant is to assume that clearly-defined boundaries do not apply to oneself. On the other hand, it is certainly arrogant/unfair to apply whatever limits exist in a selective manner – say, because you like this person more than that other person. But I don't get the impression that that is what's happening in the situations above – or if it is, it's in the opposite direction; the limits are being unequally applied because individuals who (by all accounts) should know better are ignoring them, while the rest of the group self-regulates/follows the "rules".

Just my 2p...


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 06:55 AM

The issue is about mutual respect and can only be addressed by the application of mutual respect - not by groundless prejudice and name-callng.

The very best sessions that I have attended were mixed affairs where no form of music- making was inhibited. These fine affairs usually occur at festivals or at one-off happenings - when mainly strangers find themselves in group and making music together.

I don't think the mixed session - with largely the same participants - really ever works on a regular basis.

It is not that one is better that the other - or make any claim to be - it is just that the object of the execise is different. One is a series of perfomances (to some form of audience) and the other is the involvement of all present - in one big performance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Hawker
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 06:19 PM

So 12 string stan, tell us, did he show at your session on Tuesday? did he say anything? Did you? did he 'play'? come on! the suspense is killing us!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers, Lucy


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Alba
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 07:32 PM

Yeah 12 String....how did it go???
It's a nail bitter:>)


The Scene- A Session in a Pub. Musicians sitting around chatting preparing to begin their Weekly session..
The Door opens. A young man enters the Bar loaded down with various Instruments.
At the table the Musicians see the Young man and groan and whisper "oh no it's him again" .."oh I can't believe it he has Bagpipes with him this week"
The Young man comes across the Bar and sits down at the Session table...suddenly.... Stan the Man leans across and says to the Young man..........

Come on Stan, what went down...lol
Blessings
Jude


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 06:25 AM

As this thread is clearly music-related and has stubbonly remained so - perhaps (with its originator's consent) it deserves to be promoted out of the B/S section?

There, it will I am sure - be of interest to many more posters who would not think to look for music-related threads - like this one - below the line and do not even venture into these murky waters.........


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: mooman
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 09:13 AM

Stan's failure to appear has me a bit worried...

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 12:15 PM

Well, I'll drink to that - mutual respect 'n' all


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: gnu
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 01:57 PM

Off topic a bit... I recall the late Pierre Elliot Trudeau dealing with a rather persistant heckler one time. He finally invited the young man to approach the dais, leaned over to him and, covering his mouth from view, said something. The young man fell silent.

Later, when asked by the press what he had said, Trudeau replied something like (memory fails me), "I simply spoke to him in a language I knew he would undertsand." Of course, the fact was that whatever he said, he could back up, and did on more than one occasion.

Now, back to the scrap, er, session. What HAPPENED?


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:04 PM

Gettin mighty close to 100!


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:30 PM

Very Close....

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:31 PM

I can't resist.....

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:31 PM

YAYYYYY!!!!

I got a ton!!

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

101


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

102


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

104


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

103


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

105


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

106


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

108


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

107


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

109


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:46 PM

110


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: gnu
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:47 PM

Oh, fuck off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:49 PM

Oh well the numbers didn't work in sequence and I promise never to do that again but I could beat the lot of you too 100 anytime I wanted to. That's how silly I think it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Not that guest, nor the other one...
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 02:52 PM

Well, some of us think it's DARN FUN, so there! Phhhhbbbbbbt!


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: MaineDog
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 03:01 PM

Are we missing something here? I begin to wonder if this offender has some sort of hearing problem. Is there such a thing as auditory dyslexia?
I confess that I have a hearing problem that causes me to hear different pitches in my two ears, depending somewhat on the sound levels involved.
This happened as a result of Menieurs disease, which severely reduced my hearing on one side as well. It took me a long time to learn (?) to cope with this problem.
MD


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 03:09 PM

I don't know MD but I suspect this is more of a personality problem.
My father suffers from Menniers disease and his hearing is not to good in one ear and he gets a whistling too. His hearing seems more sensitive to some noises though. Something like a plate being dropped and smashing is one that nearly sends him through the roof.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: gnu
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 03:10 PM

Oh well, if you are having fun, have at it. I would never purport to take a bauble from a baby.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 03:14 PM

I didn't find it fun at all....

Gratuitous, puerile and pointless yes.... fun no.

But I don't care.

And I thought the idea of this thread was to find a way of telling people POLITELY to fuck off.... Gnu, you were blunt and direct... but not polite!

LTS

: )


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: gnu
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 03:24 PM

Ahh. In the context and persuant, if you will allow, to the subject, I found my post rather FUNny. Otherwise, that is, when it is not humourous, in my mind, which, oddly enough, is the only mind I have to go by, I seldom use such profanity, finding polite and subtle prose much more effective. Of course, with my warped sense of humour, I could curse every fucking time I post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 05 - 08:02 PM

"Telling someone to F... off politely"

Two words: Sex, Travel


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Apr 05 - 03:20 AM

Go forth and multiply according to your kind....

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: mooman
Date: 08 Apr 05 - 04:31 AM

Oh dear...but where is Stan? He still hasn't reappeared yet! Sometimes a polite "F*** *** can offend!

Getting more worried...!

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: Telling someone to F... off politely
From: Margo
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 12:52 AM

well, the first thing that occurred to me is that he is lacking the ability to read people and situations. I am very familiar with this problem as it runs in my family (siblings) and both my kids have autism ( the extreme.)


Simply tell him this is not the right place for him but you've got to have some solid suggestions for an alternative for him so he can try another group or find a teacher....

There's my 2 cents..

Margo


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