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BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...

Bobert 10 Mar 05 - 09:44 PM
CarolC 10 Mar 05 - 09:52 PM
CarolC 10 Mar 05 - 09:56 PM
CarolC 10 Mar 05 - 09:58 PM
Bobert 10 Mar 05 - 10:03 PM
CarolC 10 Mar 05 - 10:08 PM
Bobert 10 Mar 05 - 10:25 PM
Ebbie 10 Mar 05 - 10:50 PM
Gypsy 10 Mar 05 - 10:52 PM
heric 10 Mar 05 - 10:59 PM
Bobert 10 Mar 05 - 11:00 PM
Bill D 10 Mar 05 - 11:05 PM
Helen 10 Mar 05 - 11:08 PM
CarolC 10 Mar 05 - 11:22 PM
mg 10 Mar 05 - 11:35 PM
Bobert 10 Mar 05 - 11:51 PM
Stilly River Sage 11 Mar 05 - 12:04 AM
Troll 11 Mar 05 - 12:34 AM
heric 11 Mar 05 - 12:40 AM
dianavan 11 Mar 05 - 01:35 AM
MBSLynne 11 Mar 05 - 03:42 AM
John MacKenzie 11 Mar 05 - 05:29 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 11 Mar 05 - 07:24 AM
RichM 11 Mar 05 - 07:58 AM
harpgirl 11 Mar 05 - 08:37 AM
Bill D 11 Mar 05 - 10:11 AM
Stilly River Sage 11 Mar 05 - 10:33 AM
Layah 11 Mar 05 - 11:26 AM
wysiwyg 11 Mar 05 - 12:48 PM
Little Hawk 11 Mar 05 - 12:48 PM
Kim C 11 Mar 05 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,Cathy G. 11 Mar 05 - 01:19 PM
Rustic Rebel 11 Mar 05 - 01:27 PM
Tannywheeler 11 Mar 05 - 01:33 PM
GUEST,MMario 11 Mar 05 - 01:34 PM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Mar 05 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,mg 11 Mar 05 - 01:38 PM
Little Hawk 11 Mar 05 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,MMario 11 Mar 05 - 01:46 PM
Ferrara 11 Mar 05 - 01:48 PM
PoppaGator 11 Mar 05 - 02:04 PM
Stilly River Sage 11 Mar 05 - 02:07 PM
wysiwyg 11 Mar 05 - 02:12 PM
PoppaGator 11 Mar 05 - 02:25 PM
Ebbie 11 Mar 05 - 03:01 PM
wysiwyg 11 Mar 05 - 03:49 PM
GUEST,MMario 11 Mar 05 - 03:51 PM
Helen 11 Mar 05 - 04:43 PM
Little Hawk 11 Mar 05 - 04:45 PM
Little Hawk 11 Mar 05 - 05:08 PM
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Subject: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 09:44 PM

Okay, Im gonna' keep it simple this time around... So like the P-Vine decides that we need a house cleaner a couple times a month and says she'll pay fir this lady to come in and clean out house every other week...

Well, fine. Right? Ahhhh, not so quick... LIke Paul Harvey used to say, "Now fir the rest of the story":

So come the night before the cleanin' lady is to come to clean the P-Vine got me scrubbin' this and cleaning that??? Like, ahhhh, ain't that what the cleanin' lady is 'sposed to do?

Yup, I gotta clean my entire bathroom so the cleanoing lady can, ahhhh, clean it??? Like what am I missing here???

This has to be a womanz thing that I don't have a clue about and since I have been good... No, make that very good about not introducin' no womenz threads since way back in '04... ahhhhh, yeah, like whats up with you womenz? Like what's this all about?

Heck, why not just pay the cleaning lady not to come and clean out allready cleaned stuff???

Yup, that's my 1st womanz question of the New Year and I'm certainly looking forward to see ya' all wiggle outta this one...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 09:52 PM

It's not just the P-Vine this time. A lot of people do that. I don't have any idea why. I also have no idea whether or not I would do something like that myself because I've never had anyone clean my house for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 09:56 PM

Hey Bobert! I have an idea. You can pay someone to come clean my place, and afterwards I'll let you know whether or not I cleaned it before she showed up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 09:58 PM

Oh yeah... if you want, you can also pay me to not clean up your place too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 10:03 PM

Hmmmmm, CarolC? First of all, I think that if I sent you money for a cleanin' lady you'd spend on accordian sheet music....

Ahhhh, maybe yer first comment is closer to my "1st Womaenz Question of '05" in that you admit that a lot of people might clean up for the cleaning lady...

Well, Iz here to tell ya that, ahhhhh, *men won't*...

See, this again is one of them wiring issues where a man hires a cleaning lady/person to clean and a woman goes and does the cleaning before the cleanin' lady/person get a chance to do it...

Like, ahhhhh, whats the point?

Whad I miss in school here?

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 10:08 PM

I bet a lot of gay men and some guys in the air force (and maybe the coast guard) would clean for the cleaning lady.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 10:25 PM

Like what are you tryin' to say???

Ol' Bobert ain't Coast Guardish enuff???? 'Er what....


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 10:50 PM

I agree- it appears to be a blip in women's riggin' that tells them not to let anyone see the house as it normally is!

But that's just for the first time. The next time the cleaning lady comes, she will have to maintain it as she found it last time. See?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Gypsy
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 10:52 PM

Not me..........o' course, i clean AFTER guests leave, cuz they tend to mess up me house. t'enny rate, ya wanna send me a cleaning lady? where do i sign up!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: heric
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 10:59 PM

Yes, Carol, the experts agree with you. In fact my cleaning lady told me last week that a guy I know, who she works for, she suspects to be gay because his house is fastidiously clean. She harbors no such suspicions about me. (Even though I TRY to clean before she gets here.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:00 PM

Thanks, ebbie.... See. womanz, you all got the bad wiring and even one of yer own has come to the forefront and admitted it...

Ahhhhh, life is good...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:05 PM

In order for a cleaning woman to clean, she'd have to be able to get TO things, and have places to put what's in the way OF getting to things. Not in MY house! The only way I can clean is to have some idea where everything I stacked away really is, so I can find it again after the need for cleaning abates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Helen
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:08 PM

Umm, yes, I started paying a friend of mine to clean my house, starting a couple of months ago. I do clear up stuff before she arrives so that she has a clear run on *cleaning* the house. Difference between "clearing up" and "cleaning". If (as there normally is) there is a heap of stuff all over the kitchen benches and dining table then I would have to pay for the cleaning lady to clear all the crap away and *then* start cleaning, so I'd be paying the same amount but getting half the cleaning done for the price. See, perfectly logical!

Apart from that, it's a motivator to clear stuff out of the way knowing that she is coming to clean, instead of me just procrastinating and saying I'll do it tomorrow or next week and always finding better things to do instead.

And, yes, it's also a thing about being embarrassed to let people see how bad my housekeeping skills are, although my hubby is probably worse than even me.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:22 PM

There you go, Bobert. heric at least tries, even though he's not even gay, in the air force, or the coast guard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: mg
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:35 PM

I think you shouldn't have to clean up the whole house, but I would give the toilet a quick scrub just on general principals... mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:51 PM

Okay, I'll admit that "pickin' up" is in order but once the stuff is picked up, why do I get ordered back to clean my bathroom???


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 12:04 AM

When I was in graduate school and working I has a friend give me the name of the Dynamo who cleaned for her every week. I couldn't afford every week or even a full day, so arranged for her to come over every other week and simply work on the baseline items. But in order to do that, as BillD and Helen have noted, she needed to get to the areas needing cleaning. She wasn't hired to pick up after my children or me. My list was simple, and she worked down it and stopped when she reached four hours. We left notes for each other, and sometimes I was home when she was there working, and I had to remind myself not to distract her (she did not fit the image of the "typical" cleaning woman in any way--she was a single mom who cleaned houses so she could set her hours and have the time she needed with her kids, and we enjoyed sharing stories about our kids). She ususually looked like she'd just come in from a game of golf or tennis, fit and tan and in great shape, and her "uniform" was shorts, t-shirt, and sneakers.

My list was something like this:
Clean the kitchen (surfaces, sweep and mop floor)
Clean the bathrooms (surfaces, sweep and mop floor)
Vacuum carpeted areas

That actually didn't take that long, so other tasks filled in, like cleaning windows, cleaning the mini-blinds, and sometimes things like ironing. And I know there were other things that I've forgotten about now. She did yard work, was great at putting up wallpaper, etc. Though she worked a few hours a week for Merry Maids, she worked for several people on the side. I paid $10 an hour, for about 8 hours a month, so I was a small client, and if she needed to come a different day because something bigger came along, I figured that was fair, and she never left me in the lurch.

Alas, my talented Candace suffered a massive stroke about four years ago (she was only 49) due to an undetected change in her blood pressure. She was badly injured by that event and now lives in a nursing home. It was very sad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Troll
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 12:34 AM

Tidy people are just too damn lazy to look for things.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: heric
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 12:40 AM

Troll? The voice of reason re-emerges. . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:35 AM

Good timing, Bobert.

I just called the cleaning lady for Sunday which means I have to spend all day Saturday picking-up and putting away. The cleaning lady can't do that because then I wouldn't know where anything was. Besides that, I hire her to do the actual cleaning. I can't seem to get both jobs done on my own. Of course if I put things away after I used them, then I would have a tidy place and would have time to do the actual cleaning.

But your post begs the question, do you pay for half the cost of the cleaning? If you don't, maybe thats why you have to clean your own bathroom. Its the least you can do :>)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: MBSLynne
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 03:42 AM

I admit that if I could afford such a luxury as a cleaning lady it would spur me, initially, into having a massive house clean. I agree with Helen...my main reason for this, I think, is that I would be mortified for any one (in fact, and other WOMAN, if it comes down to it) to see how mucky my house is behind things and under things. If I left my house as it is for someone to come and clean I'd feel such a slut....I think it is a woman thing, which brings me to the interesting question...has anyone EVER heard of a cleaning man??

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 05:29 AM

I expect the 'gay burgler' joke will come up any minute now.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 07:24 AM

There are things that have a specific place where they're supposed to be. Nevermind that they spend 99% of their time someplace else. When you clean up, you know exactly where they go. Then when you get ready to drag them out and leave them on the coffee table for another six weeks you know where to find them. Why you don't just consider the coffee table their "home" instead of that nook in the bookshelf where they "belong" but rarely actually are is just one of those mysteries of human nature.

There's no way a stranger could ever deduce the correct place to put those types of things, and no way you'd ever find them if they were put in the wrong place. So, if you ever want to see them again, you have to put them where they "belong". Then, when the cleaning person leaves, you can put them back on the coffee table.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: RichM
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 07:58 AM

Bobert, I feel your pain. I am the stay-at-home househusband with a cleaning lady who visits for 3 hours every two weeks.

I had to learn to 'tidy up' before her work visits.
It come down to putting away my musical toys and clothes, clearing the floors and counters so she can actually clean them.

I was reluctant to get this service, but I must admit my cleaning standards had been going downhill for several years, as my heart problems gradually worsened.(things are much better in that respect, with the help of several stents).

Now I like having the help of wonderful Angela. I don't even mind the pre-tidying! You'll feel the same way soon.

Rich


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 08:37 AM

Bobert you dumb sh*t, the answer is so obvious even a stupid hillbilly like you could figure it out. Nah, I guess not.

She made you clean your bathroom because it is not fair for the cleaning lady to have to use a flame thrower to clean out your sh*tter!


Now do you get it, you dumb hillbilly????

AWWWWW>>>Just funnin..........

love, harpgirl


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 10:11 AM

re: a cleaning man. Yes, I knew one man who did cleaning...also did general child care. He was sort of a house 'manager' for a family for awhile.

I, personally, have considered doing cleaning for extra income, but my woodworking business did well enough that I avoided having to travel and deal with other folks stuff. I am reall pretty good at cleaning when I bother. There is no part of housework that I can't or won't do....I just don't always choose to some parts for myself on a regular basis. I do toilet scrubbing, stove and oven cleaning, serious vacuuming, floor mopping, laundry...(though, I must confess, I hate folding...)....why, I even do windows.

Now...if I could just find time to do all those things on some sort of regular schedule. But that would eat into my Mudcat time!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 10:33 AM

My ex was always the tidy one in our relationship. I should hire him to come clean. Finding stuff put away by him wouldn't be any more difficult than finding things "put away" by the kids when I lean on them to help out around here. You'd think that because they live in a place they'd know where at least the kitchen stuff goes. Nope. And of course I don't realize a thing has been misplaced until I make a quick grab for it in a drawer or cupboard and find air.

I have a couple of friends who have done cleaning on the side from their regular employment, on evenings and weekends. It's a regular job, it helps pay the bills, and usually you can work with a couple of others to get the job done pretty quickly and companionably. Were I to take on that job, I'd be sure to get bonded.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Layah
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 11:26 AM

I understand tidying before a cleaning lady cleans so she can do the annoying stuff like vacuuming and cleaning bathrooms and things, and I don't mind picking stuff up. Plus while I myself have never had a cleaning lady, I have heard stories from relatives who do, in California most often cleaning ladies speak little or no English, so communication is rather difficult. My uncle had a cleaning lady who would throw away anything that wasn't put away. He had to go through the garbage after she left. He once found in the garbage his plane tickets, some other important papers, and an unopened jar of pickles. Going through the trash sounds like more work than just cleaning myself.

What I really don't understand is why people wash their dishes before they put them in the dishwasher. Isn't that what the dishwasher is for? And it's not like the dishwasher is going to think badly of your cleaning skills if you give it dirty dishes. (I wouldn't ever worry about what a cleaning lady thinks of my cleaning skills. What do I care what she thinks?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 12:48 PM

I ran a housecleaning service, and I have had help from friends and services with routine, extreme, and fire-recovery cleaning.

For me the bottom line, if I am paying-- how can I get the biggest bang for my buck? If I can get in there ahead of whoever is helping me achieve a clean house, they can spend their time on the clock doing what I could not do. I do not look at it as a job to delegate as much as a job I need help with.

The best was the fire-recovery cleaners, even beyond the insurance paying for it. I was a room ahead of them each night, filling up trash bags and organizing where I wanted stuff to be. On the insurance, they are required to clean every item present, but they do not sort, decorate, or organize. They have to wipe each piece of paper, for instance, and put it right back where it was. They said a lot of people are so freaked out after a fire that they get very anal-retentive about their stuff, even their trash. Well, I used their unexpected assistance to de-clutter what had been left after the kids moved out. I did the sorting and trashing, but they happily toted out fill trash bags, and deep-cleaned what was left.

I do the parts I can do and enjoy knowing that with the help, the rest will actually get done for a change, too.

When I ran a service, we expected stuff to at least be picked up and made vacuum-ready-- don't make the help to clean up after you, but pay them properly to clean for you. Make it easy to get at surfaces if you want the surfaces cleaned. (Put out trays they can use to remove a shelf-full of accessories at a time, too.)

And if you pay someone to clean a house that is a filthy mess-- don't be surprised if their work only elevates it to a lower standard than you might have hoped for. If it's a sh*thole when they arrive, they figure you don't really care or won't notice how it turns out.

Finally, if you are paying-- make it really clear exactly what you want, and what products you want used where-- and be prepared to pay for the time for them to actually do it well. Yours may be just one of several homes they are cleaning that day-- you don't think people can actually live on what you pay for your house's cleaning, do you? So they will tend not to clean as fast as you might in a blitz to get done and get on with your day-- they will pace themselves, and rightly, so that they can do a good job and still be physically able to do more than one home.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 12:48 PM

You have hit on a common and hilarious phenomenon this time, Bobert...women who are so insecure about the impression they make on everybody else in the World that they do things like hire a cleaner, but then they get insecure about the place looking "messy", so they clean it up before the cleaner gets there! LOL! They have then established a benchmark for "acceptably clean" in their own minds and will be forced to make sure that the house is always
THAT clean again before the cleaning lady comes the next time. Whether the cleaning lady takes any note of this is a moot point, but she WILL be obliged to get the place generally even cleaner than it was when she arrived, otherwise she'd be failing to do her job, so you can be sure that when she leaves that place will be...CLEAN!!!

So, there is method in this madness. As follows...

1. The lady of the house has decided that she needs a little help to keep up on the cleaning. Fine....

2. She hires that help...fine...

3. She now gets hit with the horrid thought that the help may get the idea that she has a MESSY place! This gives her additional motivation to get moving and CLEAN IT UP, which she figures
she ought to have done anyway. Her hidden guilt feelings over not cleaning enough are somewhat eased now. All well and good.

4. She rushes around and gets the place clean enough to be acceptable for a cleaning lady. She also badgers her husband into helping, because time is running out! Hopefully, the
cleaning lady will be impressed by their efforts, and won't go all over town afterward to the bingo halls and places like that saying stuff life, "My God, you should SEE the inside of Lucinda
Baxter's house...WHAT a hideous mess! It took me 8 hours of scrubbing before I could even catch my breath! Horrifying! The woman lives in absolute squalor!" No...that will not happen.
If it did, Mrs Baxter would be forced to go on tranquilizers or move to a new town and start over.

5. Mrs Baxter can now take comfort in the fact that the load has been taken off somewhat by the cleaning lady, and she has more time and motivation to spare for cleaning than she did before she
hired the cleaning lady. She also has that sort of upscale feeling now of having a cleaning lady, which is sort of upper-class when you think about it. One can talk to one's friends about the
marvelous job the cleaning lady is doing, and why don't they get one? Or one can bitch about the fact that the cleaning lady missed dusting the artificial flowers. Whatever. It makes for good conversation over coffee and cake.

6. The cleaning lady is enable to make a living. This is good.

7. End Result: Mrs Baxter does more cleaning than she would have done if she had not hired the cleaning lady, and so does her husband! This is good for both of them. It strengthens the
marriage. :-) The cleaning lady earns money. This is also good. The house gets so frickin' clean that you could eat your scrambled eggs off the floor! Whether this is good or not is debatable,
depending on your viewpoint. I think it's possible for a place to be TOO clean, but that's just my way of seeing it.


I had a girlfriend who was a cleaning lady for a few years. We used to go together and clean the houses on her schedule. I usually vacuumed. Most of those houses were owned by insecure women who made sure to clean them before we got there...and that made the work pretty easy. One, however...one was owned by someone who didn't give a damn. This lady couldn't care less whether people knew she lived in a pigsty, and the house was a disaster. There were several
caged birds, and the place was full of discarded birdseed. Everywhere. It was also full of toys and other stuff scattered all over the place. Cleaning it was a challenge you could really get your teeth into, and it was sort of enjoyable for that reason. Whoever that woman was, she did not suffer from the common insecurities that seem to beset most females.

Reading the comic strip "Kathy" can probably help with gaining some insight into what is going on inside many insecure females' heads.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Kim C
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:19 PM

Bobert, does she also wash the dishes before she puts them in the dishwasher?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: GUEST,Cathy G.
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:19 PM

That's "Cathy", Little Hawk! Please do not mispell the name of the greatest comic strip in history.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:27 PM

I pity the poor person who would ever come to clean my house. I have too much shit and it's everywhere. My walls are full, my floors are full (of animal hair and straw every damn day!), My shelves are full. Yes, I pity the person, but I wouldn't clean beforehand. Unfortunately I would never have a housekeeper unless I'm too old and feeble to do it myself.
This thing about being insecure Little Hawk, you might be right about that, but I would be like the challenging women. If I can afford to pay for it, they're going to clean it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:33 PM

Eyedunnoh. Why bother? Next month you just have to do it all over again. Like Bill D. says -- starts eating into the important stuff, like Mudcat time.                            Tw


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:34 PM

well - I clean the kitchen before our cleaning lady comes - because otherwise she spends her time in the kitchen and doesn't get anything else done (depite repeated instructions that the kitchen is the LAST thing she is to tackle - only if she has time)

Guess the sight of a dirty dish offends her or something. (Not that she *DOES* the dishes - just restacks them in the sinks and the dish strainer. Yup - she rearranges the dishes in the drying rack. Why I don't know.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:36 PM

Little Hawk, I would not rush to make comments about women's insecurity before actually seeing Bobert's bathroom. It could be that asking an outsider to clean it would violate the Geneva Convention.

As for washing the dishes before putting them in the dishwasher, there are two factors at work here. Long ago, it was necessary to rinse them very well before putting them in, and some people cling to this.

The other factor is that there are certain foods that the dishwasher doesn't deal with very well. Rice, for example. If find that if there are grains of rice on the food, the dishwasher pulverizes them and sprays them back on to the dishes, where they stick and stay. The dishwasher is also not good at removing cheese or egg yolk.

Just in general, we find that if we give the dishes a very quick swish, we can use the "water miser" cycle which saves a considerable amount of water, time, and electricity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:38 PM

I had a cleaning man, just once, but what a great idea. I am a slob, and there is a woman thing about having other women know what a slob you are. He just had knee surgery but I hope he will come back after recovery...I just don't get stuff clean like a professional would...but I would tidy up and clean up anything truly gross ahead of time. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:42 PM

Yes, I did mispell it. Pardon me. I just went and looked it up on Google and perused the last couple of week's episodes of "Cathy". I see that the idiot has gone and done the absolute WORST thing she could possibly have done, and married her off-again-on-again boyfriend, Irving! AAAAAAAAACK! I predict many years of depressing marital discord, followed by a messy divorce.

Two things you should know, Cathy...

1. It doesn't matter how you spell her name, she's still a ditz.

2. Liberty Meadows is the greatest comic strip in history.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:46 PM

my family finds it excruciatingly funny that I *WAS* a professional housecleaner for several years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Ferrara
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 01:48 PM

Bobert, I just have one question: Just exactly how dirty was that bathroom anyway? I suspect that "Before," "After Bobert's Cleanup," & "After the Cleaning Woman's Visit" photos might clear up this mystery....

Maybe Eve doesn't mind the cleaning lady seeing what her house is really like, but does mind anybody seeing what Eve's husband is really like....

I suspect I would make our college-age kid clean his bathroom before the cleaning lady came, too. (Whiskers all over the sink.... Grrrrummpppphhh)

Rita F


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 02:04 PM

Why would any of you assume that Bobert's bathroom would be especially nasty? He does live with a woman, or so we've been led to believe, so I think we should assume that their home is at least minimally civilized.

I think we've have established two things that we should all be able to agree upon:

1) Some preparation before the cleaning lady visits is usually in order, and is often necessary to take maximum advantage of that person's services; and

2) Many wimminz go way overboard with said preparation.

I am very proud to report that my lovely wife Peggy engages the services of a professional housecleaner once every two weeks, and lets the woman deal with our mess with little or no "pre-cleaning."

Of course, it has taken years for this relationship to develop. Eunice is almost "family" ~ well, extended-family anyway ~ and has come to serve an important function as psychological counselor, not just as sanitary engineer. Her byword, good advice for all situations, is "Don't fret your nerves!"

For some reason, Peggy is more likely to heed this admonition when it comes from mother-figure Eunice; when I tell her not to worry about this or that, she doesn't always listen.

PS: I rinse the dishes before putting them in the dishwasher (usually), but do not wash them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 02:07 PM

I've spent the morning working in my office, and part of that time has been to clear out some space to file some new materials. Getting rid of paper in order to stash paper. I can't imagine anyone else making sense of my papers, or figuring out what I'd want to keep. The result would be useful stuff thrown away or a general stack that makes no sense. So if I had a cleaning person coming through to do floors, dust, etc., here and now, I'd still expect to handle my own papers.

There are so many reasons why someone hiring a cleaner would still go ahead and sort and clean ahead of time. As Susan and others remark, it's sharing the work with someone, and having them do the part that requires the least instruction but is still labor intensive. It makes sense to divide the labor according to who will do what job best.

This discussion of hired cleaners shouldn't be confused with those who have households and full-time employees to regularly maintain the people living there. I haven't a clue as to who would decide what goes where under that circumstance.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 02:12 PM

The house we rent has a lousy dishwasher. I soak and pre-wash before loading because I want clean dishes, tho it is handy for them to get sanitized, rinsed and dried off in there. Also our farm water is pretty lousy, so it's not a good surfectant for dried-on stuff, and with only two in the household it's unusual to dirty up a whole load in one day.

Who cares if some women go a little overboard? If it results in a clean house, who cares how one gets there? I gotta tell you-- if I were the P-Vine, I'd be really hurt if I knew I was being portrayed this way in a public forum (or two) among people I'd not even met. Bobert, dear friend-- these threads are.... well, I think you might not want to do any more of them! Next time you have a womanz problem at home-- just get as close as allowed and tell her you love her to pieces, and believe me, any confusion will clear up pretty fast!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 02:25 PM

Bobert cares that he is asked to "go overboard." If P-Vine did the terlet-scrubbing herself, he'd be bemused but not nearly so irritated.

I hope our little discussion is not going to cause dissention in their household. This kind of battle-of-the-sexes quibbling is a part of human existence that will probably never change, and provides fodder for an amusing and even occasionally enlightening exchange of observations. As long as no one takes it too personally, that is.

I have just one final question: what's so gay about the Air Force and the Coast Guard?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 03:01 PM

Little Hawk, your suggestion that women are "insecure" is rather broad. (Let's not go into the things that men are insecure about.)

If I am paying a cleaner it doesn't make sense that s/he should spend the energy and my money on going through or gathering my papers or in picking up toys. The money I am paying is for cleaning. I don't call that insecurity at all.

As for a bathroom, it is not a bad idea to swish the toilet brush around or to soak cruddy areas before you expose someone else to that stuff. That means daily attention to that kind of thing. Cleaning a bathroom on the other hand, imo, is spraying and polishing up hard surfaces while also deodorizing and disinfecting. A bathroom should sparkle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 03:49 PM

But Bobert doesn't ask, "How come men do what women want when they don't understand why" or "how come I can't figger out my wonderful wife." He lays the problem elsewhere and pokes fun. I've been in their house, OK, and I have this image of the P-Vine going about her day elsewhere in the house while Bobert's holed up in a little room making fun of her, and since I'm a friend of hers, and since this ain't the first such thread-- I've come to think it's kinda shitty. Say it's P-Vine at her first Getaway, and somebody nudges her knowingly and starts up about the damn bathroom.... and all of a sudden she realizes Bobert's made her out to be a fool. So, yeah, I've come to think it's kinda shitty.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 03:51 PM

hey! It's the 'Y" chromosome - we can't help it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Helen
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 04:43 PM

I have a very useful book written by a man: Don Aslett, Is there life after housework. It has really useful and clever ideas for saving time and being more effective and efficient in cleaning the house. I also have a sign in a frame on my mantlepiece which says "Dull women have immaculate houses" which means for me that there is more to life than housework, only I have taken it to a slightly more extreme level than normal.

On the subject of men and cleaning, though, I heard a quote which I have been testing out by observation for some time, and it seems to hold fairly true in my experience: "(A lot of) men expect to be thanked for doing housework because they consider it to be 'helping out' their wives/partners".   In other words, a lot of men still have the (mistaken) idea that housework is the sole responsibility of women. (I welcome your comments on this, everyone.) :-)

The reason I am paying a housecleaner is that I recognise my natural inclination to do anything but housework, and my other natural inclination to collect clutter, especially paper-based clutter. Also, for the last 10 years I have been financially stressed to the max, but now, finally we both have well-paying work and I want my house in some sort of order, and I really need to use my house-cleaning energies on sorting and getting rid of excess stuff so paying a cleaner helps me with achieving the bigger goal of "getting my house in order" physically and mentally/psychologically.

PoppaGator said "He does live with a woman.......so I think we should assume that their home is at least minimally civilized." My hubby lives with me but the two of us are, by nature, just about the worst housekeepers I've ever met. Well no, I take that back, I have seen worse, but I mean within the statistically normal range.

WYSIWYG, I think that Bobert was passing a general comment on what he sees as the "illogicality" of women, but he is respecting P-Vine by asking this as a gently humourous question. He's not bitching, in my observation.

Since my friend started cleaning up for me I can't find lots of the things in boxes she stacked in the corner of my office, but I am gradually sorting them and chucking stuff out. What I have wanted to do for years and didn't have time o motivation.

I had a cleaner about 20 years ago who used to chuck things in the garbage. It took me a while to realise I had to sort through the garbage after I left. The worst thing she chucked out was one sleeve of a dress I was fixing. Why just one sleeve? And my carefully handwritten recipes. It was a communication problem because my flatmate was the go-between. I chucked her out not long after that because she was deliberately stirring up trouble among my friends and I suspect she was doing that with the cleaner too.

Rita/Ferrara - what is is about whiskers all over the sink? Why does my hubby trim his beard and leave it all over the sink, clogging up the drain hole? I just don't get that at all.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 04:45 PM

Yes, Ebbie, I was engaging in sweeping generalizations, no doubt...it could be that I was just "stirring the pot" a bit, given my particularly twisted sense of humour. :-) And I would like to add that it was quite insensitive on your part to use the word "broad" in a discussion about women. Let's just watch it, eh? (grin) I agree that bathrooms are best kept nice and shiny clean.

I think it is plainly evident from Bobert's frequent postings about the P-Vine that he loves her dearly...and likes to play the part of the "uncomprehending male" mostly just for laughs. Ain't that so, Bobert?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobert's 1st Womanz Question of '05...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 05:08 PM

Helen, as a man who has lived alone quite a bit over the years, I certainly do not expect anyone else to be doing my housework... :-) Matter of fact, I take housework for granted. It beats cleaning out the eavestroughs or or fixing the car. It's one of life's more enjoyable routine tasks, I think.


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