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BS: What means bigot?

Jimmy C 15 Mar 05 - 11:12 PM
Troll 15 Mar 05 - 01:38 AM
Wolfgang 14 Mar 05 - 06:11 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 14 Mar 05 - 03:16 AM
Wolfgang 13 Mar 05 - 05:12 PM
Biskit 13 Mar 05 - 04:58 PM
Gurney 13 Mar 05 - 02:57 PM
robomatic 13 Mar 05 - 08:59 AM
Wolfgang 13 Mar 05 - 08:38 AM
freda underhill 13 Mar 05 - 08:13 AM
ard mhacha 13 Mar 05 - 07:35 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 13 Mar 05 - 07:27 AM
katlaughing 13 Mar 05 - 12:26 AM
Gurney 12 Mar 05 - 09:25 PM
Once Famous 10 Mar 05 - 04:21 PM
Azizi 10 Mar 05 - 11:29 AM
Peace 10 Mar 05 - 11:19 AM
GUEST,wondering 10 Mar 05 - 10:50 AM
Azizi 10 Mar 05 - 09:05 AM
Wolfgang 10 Mar 05 - 08:43 AM
GUEST 10 Mar 05 - 04:28 AM
Gurney 10 Mar 05 - 04:10 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 10 Mar 05 - 03:19 AM
heric 10 Mar 05 - 12:58 AM
heric 10 Mar 05 - 12:30 AM
Bob Bolton 09 Mar 05 - 11:52 PM
GUEST 09 Mar 05 - 11:36 PM
Little Hawk 09 Mar 05 - 10:40 PM
Bill D 09 Mar 05 - 10:21 PM
GUEST,informant 09 Mar 05 - 09:35 PM
mack/misophist 09 Mar 05 - 09:30 PM
Azizi 09 Mar 05 - 08:36 PM
The Shambles 09 Mar 05 - 06:58 PM
GUEST,Jon 09 Mar 05 - 06:31 PM
Bill D 09 Mar 05 - 06:08 PM
The Shambles 09 Mar 05 - 05:52 PM
Wolfgang 09 Mar 05 - 05:23 PM
Bill D 09 Mar 05 - 05:18 PM
Azizi 09 Mar 05 - 05:07 PM
Little Hawk 09 Mar 05 - 05:05 PM
Once Famous 09 Mar 05 - 04:45 PM
catspaw49 09 Mar 05 - 03:54 PM
Once Famous 09 Mar 05 - 03:49 PM
catspaw49 09 Mar 05 - 03:46 PM
Once Famous 09 Mar 05 - 03:30 PM
Little Hawk 09 Mar 05 - 03:15 PM
robomatic 09 Mar 05 - 02:55 PM
Once Famous 09 Mar 05 - 02:22 PM
JohnInKansas 09 Mar 05 - 02:18 PM
GUEST,The Shambles 09 Mar 05 - 02:04 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 11:12 PM

bigot
   noun

Definition:   persecutor

Synonyms:   bug, crank, diehard, doctrinaire, dogmatist, enthusiast, extremist, fanatic, fideist, fiend, flag-waver, freak, jingoist, maniac, monomaniac, mule, no-neck, nut, opinionated person, partisan, persecutor, pig, puritan, racist, red-neck, relisher, sectarian, segregationist, sexist person, stickler, superpatriot, zealot


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Troll
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 01:38 AM

A bigot is any conservative who is winning an argument with a liberal.

troll*******snort! chuckle*******


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 06:11 AM

As a good reader of Mudcat I now know (but I wouldn't have had the slightest idea in my before Mudcat times):

English to English dictionary

I only tend to forget which meaning is American and which is European.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 03:16 AM

The word 'fanny' has come to mean different parts of the body on different sides of the Atlantic. I wonder what part of the body would a English speaking German think that this word applied to?


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 05:12 PM

robomatic, thanks. I might have read that before but even if yes it is still very good for a laugh. It is made up (too good to be true), but all too often we read similar sentences in manuals. The best advice for manuals from the far East is to read the English version. One word they never get right is the word 'power' (when speaking about electricity). They invariably use 'Kraft'(strength or force): "One, make safe you have put on with the force."

BTW, why is a Handy called a Handy? (You have to know Suebian German to get it). The first time a Suebian saw a Handy he said: "Hen di koi Schnur?"

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Biskit
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 04:58 PM

The first time I ever heard Bigot used in a sentnce was when; Meathead (michel) called Archie Bunker one,..when in truth they were equally biggoted (sp)Meathead and Gloria were just as intolerant and set in their ways as was Archie. While Edith,(Archie's wife),was the only one of the group willing to listen to both sides of an argument and try to come to a rational decision. Ironically Edith was usually cast as the loveable idiot. Something I never agreed with, Edith was thoughtful, tolerant, and loving, and while she had definte opinions,she wieghed carefully the effect her opinion would have on a fellow human being,and then determined whether or not to share them.
And that, Wolfgang, I believe, was when the meaning of Bigot changed from "overly pious" as we learned in school, to the rather distorted catch-all phrase for anyone that doesn't agree with the name caller.
Peace!(Through Understanding)
~Biskit~


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Gurney
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 02:57 PM

Thanks, Wolfgang. I was just dropping off to sleep when I had a terrible suspicion that Das Handy was an unromantic German way of describing lovemaking, specifically with Widow Thumb and her four daughters. Shame on me.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 08:59 AM

Wolfgang:

You may have already seen this: I first saw it while walking through an operating radio broadcast station. In some form or other it has been around in the US for at least thirty years, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were twice that old or more:

"ACHTUNG!!! Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets.
"Relaxen und vatch das blinkenlights!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 08:38 AM

Das Handy is in the English speaking world called cellphone or mobile.

Ard Mhacha, what is combat 18? I haven't the slightest idea. I'm the one in need of enlightenment.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: freda underhill
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 08:13 AM

The pocket Macquarie dictionary (the one used in Australia) defines bigot as:

person unreasonably convinced of rightness of a particular opinion, practise etc.

good thread, Wolfgang!


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 07:35 AM

Wolfgang could you enlighten us on Combat 18, no offence, I am just being curious.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 07:27 AM

I think the use of the word 'icon' in this context is another fairly recent departure. For an 'icon' is a sacred painting or mosaic etc (usually a rather dark image).

Iconoclast: person who assails cherished beliefs: breaker of images.

Perhaps the word 'iconoclast' is nearer to what some of us mean when we use the word 'icon'? Or in a forum setting - perhaps 'pain in the arse' is a better phrase?


As for all this 'know what I am saying here' stuff - the Scots just use the one word 'ken'. This word is very versatile as it acts as both a statement and a question. It is also a lot shorter........ken?


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 12:26 AM

Not much to add as far as all of the wonderful expositions above. I may have a prejudice against sheepherders of the old West. I would be a bigot if I actively recruited others to feel the same way and to make overt moves to further my views, even to the point of violence.

In another way, bigot to me means hypocritical. I would use it to describe someone who seems tolerant, but in reality is very intolerant.

I was curious to see what my grandfather's five volume dictionary set, circa 1896, had to say. Imagine my surprise when I found it didn't have it listed at all!

Warning thread drift: LH, you said, in reference to M. Gibson and Spaw "...you both rate as icons on this forum." Think again, surrah! Spaw's got mileage, class, eloquence, heart, experience, and cleans up the kitty litter quite well. It takes a lot more that what MG has done here to even come close to being any kind of "icon" like Spaw and a handful of others I could name on this forum, IMO!

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Gurney
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 09:25 PM

'Das handy', I would expect, would mean 'The handyman', or possibly 'the useful (something)', but I would be interested to know what it really means.

As words come into common and erroneous usage, I've sometimes tried to stem the flow by pointing out the error. A verbally agressive woman once accused me of being a Chauvinist, and when I pointed out that, being of English birth, I couldn't possibly be, and I was not even a Jingoist, she gave me a disgusted look and walked away.
I see that even the modern dictionaries do not classify Chauvinism as rabid French nationalism (as they used to do), nor do they classify Jingoism as the equivalent English nationalism. The two words are now usually synonyms.
Mind you, it worked well for getting rid of her.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 04:21 PM

Much bigotry is based on sterotypes.

Many stereotypes I would think are based on a certain, but not all inclusive, amount of fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:29 AM

Even arm chair travel like we are doing at Mudcat-meeting new people and exchanging cultural information and opinions-helps to counteract the "prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness" that is so pervasive in our societies.

Another good reason to continuing visiting Mudcat!


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 11:19 AM

Twain remarks on it very nicely:

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness."


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: GUEST,wondering
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 10:50 AM

I also wonder if part of the problem with a rapidly changing meaning of words (at least in American English) might be because of the political spin doctors that can make a tragic situation sound totally reasonable and admirable. And of course they can do the opposite, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 09:05 AM

The Shambles,

I'll give you mad props* for your 10 Mar 05 - 03:19 AM post.

That means, I'm giving you a great compliment for the spirit & content of your response to my post, you dig? **

mad-an intensiver
props-a hip hop word from 'proper'[meaning proper respect and/or acknowledgement given to someone or something, including those that may have been 'iged'-ignored or 'dissed'-disrespected; 'iged' is a much older word than the others]

Of course, a much more updated version of "You dig?" is
"You feel me"?

But I didn't wanna 'go there' as my intent might be misinterpreted.

;o)

****

Sorry for the thread drift, but I couldn't help it..

Now [as Ed Sullivan used to say] on with the show!


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 08:43 AM

I'm still thinking about Shambles' idea that German words may change meaning more slowly. I don't know of any data here but it could be. Perhaps the size (and/or the distribution) of the population speaking one language is the causal factor here.

But when I think about it so many words come in my head that have changed the meaning during my lifetime or that have come into our language borrowed mostly from English: Einchecken for instance (check in) is now treated as a normal German verb: Hast du schon eingecheckt?

BTW, we even invent new words that pretend coming from English but actually don't really, at least not with that meaning. That is particularly funny if Germans use such "English" words and are surprised that htey are not understood when speaking English. One example is our new noun "das Handy" (pronounced the English way). I let you guess what we mean when saying that.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 04:28 AM

http://wordweb.info/free/


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 04:10 AM

Wolfgang, you write English very well indeed, but if you are trying to define ANY word in English, you are flogging a dead horse. (I can point out three meanings of 'flogging' and five meanings of 'horse'. See Wordweb below.)
The language is in a constant state of transition, and any defination that you find will be of date when someone uses a word that they invent or adapt to a concept for which they have no referent. The 'new' usage is immediately adopted by the media and given legitimacy by usage, and also because the term is sometimes more obvious than the original word for that concept was.
I was watching a US cop show on TV the other night, and a suspect there was talking 'hip-hop'. Even the cops interviewing him didn't fully understand him, and as an English-English speaker, I understood perhaps one word in four. It was English, Horatio, but not as we know it.
Could I suggest that you download a free dictionary called Wordweb, which sits on your toolbar for instant reference. In my opinion it is things like this that makes the web worth having.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 03:19 AM

I try my best to keep up with the increasing speed in which the use of words in the English langauge change - but when so many emphatic statements seem to need to end with the question 'you know what I'm saying' I invariably don't..........You ken?

But I am cool........about what's 'goin' down.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: heric
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 12:58 AM

Maybe it was All in the Family that did it. I'm reasonably serious. Archie Bunker was the bigot of all bigots. The grandaddy. And his targets were a veritable laundry list of religions, ethnicities, races, and political leanings. It all blurred into one thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: heric
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 12:30 AM

Is it possible that in the U.S. the original meaning expanded/evolved from primary practical application against American WASPS? Purloined, employed and re-deployed by an ever-expanding circle of new ethnicities, religions, and races and other interests until the original meaning was diluted and its and principal target ultimately forgotten? (I dunno.)


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 11:52 PM

G'day Wolfgang,

Being a bit older than JennyO, and perhaps a better index of Australian word usage BT (Before Television), I have to say my original definition of 'bigot' would be in line with the OED / Webster / &c ... that is, 'overly-pious' - but with a strong sense of 'intolerant' of any other faith or religion. Since those days I have seen the 'secularisation' of the word proceed until it is applied freely to any person strongly holding views different from the user.

I suspect the main source of this change would be American, since the television era has exposed us to far more examples American programming than that of British / Australian / European / Asian / Third World origin (approximately the order of frequency of material on our screens).

I try not to use the word at all ... I prefer terms that have some chance of being widely understood ... and I guess I mentally apply some 'nationality filter' when I hear the word - biasing my interpretation according to the background of the speaker.

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 11:36 PM

Most of them are not checking into your thread:
WYSIPYG

LatKaughling

TroopFools

GoyGirl

Bricies' undiclosed "other"



Even Max and Joe if the topic "offends the mainstream" of possible marketable MC
buyers.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 10:40 PM

Oh, I would have just loved that....not!


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 10:21 PM

When I lived in Kansas, 3 members of board of the John Birch Society lived in Wichita. I remember university professors being threatened anonymously for liberal thinking.

Lots of very nice, reasonable folks I knew also, but you had to be DURNED careful who you said what to!


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: GUEST,informant
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 09:35 PM

Just so you know...

Kansas has a new state slogan: "Kansas! As Big As You Think."

The way it is moving, it will soon be:

"Kansas! As BIG-oted as you think."


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 09:30 PM

The Shambles said:

Perhaps the meaning of German words are less prone to change so much as words in a language like English - that is shared between so many different cultures and spoken as a first language in so many countries?

In fact, English is the most plastic, chanbeable language among all known languages. As far as I know, there is no accepted reason. Ask any well educated Spanish, French, German, of Russian speaker if they can make sense of their language's national epics, then go look at Beowulf. Even the Canterbury Tales is much less accessable than if appears to be at first glance.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 08:36 PM

What Shambles? You don't stay up to date with the latest African American expressions?!

For shame!!

You said that the American Idol judge said that "It is not good enough to be cool - you have to be hot, hot, hot - know what I'm saying?"

Given the context in which these words were spoken, my interpretation would be that the judge was telling the singer to put more of him [or her] self into the interpretation & delivery of the song.. that is more energy; soul; passion..The judge may have been recommending that the singer raise his [and therefore the audiences'] energy level up considerably from cool {mellow} to so hot that he [she]is "cookin" and "smokin" with passion.

Clarence Major's dictionary on African American slang "Juba To Jive" says this about the word "cool" Note: the words in parenthesis are my additions.

"At various times cool has meant roughly the same thing as "bad" [meaning good], or "boss" [meaning good] or 'hip' [meaning good/in the latest fashion] or "together" [good/complete] loosely used, but generally it means anything favorably regarded ; [cool is] a word of agreement, a consent, or affirmation;..

end of quote.

That is one definition of "cool". But Majors continues with a second meaning for this word:

"also, a cool person is one who is detached, aloof. In the forties, "cool" music was fashionable, just as it was fashionable for the listeners-and everybody else to be cool. "Cool was the opposite of "hot".

end of quote

Using the male pronoun as an example, a cool person acts "laid back", he strikes a pose, giving the impression that nothing can faze [bother] him..He draws into himself and becomes [as] cold as ice. He does not get "hot and bothered" [excited] about what is happening [goin down]. His feelings are untouchable..Many African Americans see this persona as the ideal. Indeed in "The Dozens", a traditional verbal game of insult exchange the winnder is the person who 'keeps his cool' [retains the most emotional control] while coming up with creative, ritualized 'digs' {insults}.

And trouble is often averted among African American youth and adults by others telling a person to ignore criticism or challanges [to 'play pass' them]..If someone tries to 'get his goat'[to use a mainstream American saying], a man's friends might tell the challenger to "to cool it" [meaning to stop trying to raise the temperature up; stop trying to start trouble] or they could tell the person being challenged to "cool it" if they see him getting heated [angry] about what has been said.

Rappers sometimes use these commonly known cultural values in selecting their stage names..for example rapper "Coolio".

Actually, for at least 15 years or so, the phrase "cool it" has been replaced by "chill out"; .."chillin" [for example, means relaxing..which is still in the same ball park as being maintaining or outwardly exhibiting low levels of energy].

To return where I began, though I didn't see 'American Idol' {ugh!!},
I would guess that the judge wanted the singer to recognise that sometimes it's cool [acceptable, fashionable] to be hot [more emotionally involved/passionate]in the delivery of a song.

So Shambles, the next time you have a beef with me, and you think I'm getting all 'worked up about nothing', you can tell me to "cool out."

And if I ever tell YOU to "chill out" [or take a "chill pill"]
you'll now have a sense of what I'm saying.

;O)


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 06:58 PM

We even have words which come to mean the exact opposite. Where bad now means good - for example!

Recently I remember on that American Idol TV show - one of the judges said to one of the singers: It is not good enough to be cool - you have to be hot, hot, hot - know what I'm saying?

I didn't and I still don't and this is my first and only language!


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 06:31 PM

So many definitions... To me a bigot is somone who typically has irrational and predjudiced conclusions. eg, Wolfgang, suppose I thought because you are German, you must be a Nazi (something I know full well you are not - quite the opposite in fact) and based my conversation with you on that false belief, I would be a bigot. Faith/religion does come into it in the sense my false beliefs tell me "All Germans are Nazis".

Hope I've expressed that reasonably.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 06:08 PM

Yes..I think you might have a very important point, Shambles....in fact, two points.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 05:52 PM

Perhaps the meaning of German words are less prone to change so much as words in a language like English - that is shared between so many different cultures and spoken as a first language in so many countries?

There are examples of other words - where an entirely different meaning is added and which gradually replaces the original meaning. Words such as gay.........


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 05:23 PM

Thanks a lot, folks. I have learned a lot from this thread.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 05:18 PM

from "WordWeb" a dictionary program I downloaded.

"A prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own"

I have the feeling that 'bigot' is like 'folk'...a word that is just too easy & useful to be restrained to its original uses. I originally heard it as synonomous with 'racially intolerant', but now it is often modified to refer to 'religious bigots' just as often.

A study of its use is partially etymological and partially sociological.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 05:07 PM

Great story, Robomatic!


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 05:05 PM

I'd been hoping you two guys would have a meeting of minds for the longest time now...given the fact that you both rate as icons on this forum.

You're so right, Martin. Spaw is a pervert of the first water. He has been known to launch scurrilous attacks on his betters (such as Major Tom and William Shatner) with absolutely no provocation, and he has also attempted to have a clay musical instrument in the shape of a possum enshrined as a fully-fledged member and mascot on this forum. He has made repeated assertions that Neil Young has sex with his electric guitar onstage. I've spoken to Neil about this, and suggested legal action against Spaw, but Neil has taken the high road and decided to just ignore it all. That's because Neil has class. Spaw doesn't. It's that simple.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:45 PM

Shut-up and sit-down, spaw.

You dished it out first. Now take it.

Go ahead and laugh your smelly ass off.

who cares?


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:54 PM

Bit touchy today aren't we Martin?

LMAO

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:49 PM

You are an an asshole, Catspaw.

You live in a fantsy world.

tolerating you is like tolerating a bad smell, which you probably, in your very tolerant way, are used to.

You are probably a pervert on top of everything else.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:46 PM

Martin Gibson wrote: "Why should I tolerate the views of others if I think they are fucked up?

Why, if one is outspoken about this, should they be labeled a bigot?

You can't force someone to tolerate what they consider to be complete bullshit.


I think you're right Martin. How about if we just refer to you as a jackass?(:<))

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:30 PM

Probably not, Little Hawk.

Probably not.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:15 PM

No one can stop you from "not tolerating" something, Martin. :-)

But what will happen then? Are there serious consequences?


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 02:55 PM

An excellent thread.

I just went to my old family Merriam Webster 2nd ed. dictionary c1954. It had two meanings:
1) based on Old French, a hypocrite, esp. a superstitious one.
2) One who is obstinitelly, irrationally, intolerantly attached to one's church, party, belief, opinon.

I have never heard or used bigot in the sense of 1) a hypocrite. I have seen and heard it used as the noun of the word 'prejudice'. To me a bigot is one who is prejudiced, and growing up in Northeast USA I mainly heard it applied against local people who did not want their children bussed to schools so as to increase racial integration.

There is one more meaning, purely personal.

When I was 13 and came into social studies class one day, there were two anomalies. The first was that there was substitute teacher that day. I dont know about other countries, but in the American schools I've gone to, a substitute teacher is treated as entertainment by the children. We made up stories, changed our names, and claimed that we had no homework due, pretty much anything that would get us out of doing work and make the substitute teacher's life more horrible. (I have been a substitute teacher, so "I've looked at life from both sides now"). Anyhow, the other anomaly was that whoever had sat at my desk in the classroom before me had torn sheets of paper into little itty bitty bits no larger than 2 x 2 mm. They had been profoundly bored or had a need to destroy some profoundly moving bit of student literature. I remember being impressed that such a source of entropy had yet to be utilized (Of course, at that age I had no idea what entropy meant). The kid in front of me, Michael Breen, who had the size and bravado of Jimmy Cagney, saw me staring at this pile of bits and immediately called them 'bigots'. And of course, with his help, by the end of the class, all those neatly piled bigots were pretty much evenly distributed around the desks, clothing, and any other available surfaces. As usual, the substitute teacher was not able to pound any sense into our bony little heads and we were roundly cussed out by our proper teacher the next day.

So I feel like adding to my dictionary:

bigot:
3) Minute homogenous samples, bits, or particles of innocuous paper, dust, or 'stuff'.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 02:22 PM

I am not bigoted against a race of gays. Of couse that race is good for just one generation.


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 02:18 PM

Wolfgang

Be aware that many persons use common terms "loosely," and often not correctly. Common usage in the US is quite variable, and the term "bigot" is frequently used when "racist" is meant.

Older dictionaries - 1950s perhaps - nearly always gave an etymology indicating a corruption of "by God," and among members of my own earlier generations, the term used was actually as "he's a By-God (person)," usually as a mildly reproachful term applied to persons of a different faith, as in "he's a By-God Lutheran," or "he's a By-God Catholic."

In that earlier usage, the implication was either that the person attempted to "impose" belief on others, or disparaged persons of other faith. According to my recollection, from when I was 10 or 12 years old, the term was often applied to those who "declined contact" with the community at large, with the implication that the "others were unworthy."

The definition given by my Random House CD dictionary reflects the current meaning when the term is used accurately in the sense that literate Americans use it:

"A person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion."

The definition cites the 1590-1600 Medieval French/Old French usage as a derogatory name applied by the French to the Normans, and notes "perh. OE: God, by God"

Note that in current usage, as indicated by this definition, the term can be applied to political or social belief, as well as to religious belief. When applied to other than a religious belief, it is common to apply a "clarifying adjective," as in "a liberal bigot," or "conservative bigot."

The term should not, normally, be applied to one who holds strong beliefs. It is properly used only for those who attempt to force their beliefs on others.

An operative requirement is that the belief that the bigot attempts to impose is a "rote rule," but the rule can come from any "scripture," whether it be a bible, Mein Kampf, the Communist Manifesto, the current party platform, or any other.

In colloquial usage, "Natzi" is almost interchangeable with "bigot" since the Natzi regime used the bigotry of the population so extensively in establishing their power (e.g. Nuremburg 1939 "racial purity," indistinguishable from US "sanctity of marriage" movement ca. 2003 to current).

We have lots of them in Kansas.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: What means bigot?
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 02:04 PM

"Bigot", like "Nazi" and "you f****** c***", tends to be used when the speaker has run out of logical arguments.

If the speaker does use this word in this senario - it also could be and is probably more likely to be that - the other person was not worried about having any supporting logical arguments in the first place.

For the expression of blind prejudice does not have any need for logical argument. That is probably the best definition of a bigot...


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