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BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?

CarolC 25 Feb 05 - 02:39 PM
SINSULL 25 Feb 05 - 03:00 PM
gnu 25 Feb 05 - 03:03 PM
wysiwyg 25 Feb 05 - 03:03 PM
sue exhull 25 Feb 05 - 03:12 PM
katlaughing 25 Feb 05 - 05:40 PM
John MacKenzie 25 Feb 05 - 06:24 PM
dianavan 25 Feb 05 - 08:35 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Feb 05 - 09:01 PM
SINSULL 25 Feb 05 - 09:50 PM
katlaughing 25 Feb 05 - 11:25 PM
iamjohnne 25 Feb 05 - 11:56 PM
rich-joy 26 Feb 05 - 12:40 AM
Peace 26 Feb 05 - 12:53 AM
rich-joy 26 Feb 05 - 01:14 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 26 Feb 05 - 03:02 AM
CarolC 26 Feb 05 - 09:32 AM
iamjohnne 26 Feb 05 - 09:47 AM
CarolC 26 Feb 05 - 10:45 AM
wysiwyg 26 Feb 05 - 11:09 AM
dianavan 26 Feb 05 - 11:25 AM
GUEST,CarolC 26 Feb 05 - 12:25 PM
SINSULL 26 Feb 05 - 01:12 PM
wysiwyg 26 Feb 05 - 01:22 PM
wysiwyg 26 Feb 05 - 01:33 PM
CarolC 26 Feb 05 - 02:05 PM
katlaughing 26 Feb 05 - 03:38 PM
wysiwyg 26 Feb 05 - 05:37 PM
Peace 26 Feb 05 - 07:29 PM
catspaw49 26 Feb 05 - 08:00 PM
rich-joy 26 Feb 05 - 08:06 PM
katlaughing 26 Feb 05 - 08:12 PM
rich-joy 26 Feb 05 - 08:22 PM
GUEST,Stilly River Sage 27 Feb 05 - 11:10 AM
GUEST 27 Feb 05 - 11:57 AM
GUEST,Metchosin 27 Feb 05 - 11:58 AM
GUEST,CarolC 27 Feb 05 - 11:59 AM
GUEST,CarolC 27 Feb 05 - 12:02 PM
Hawker 27 Feb 05 - 06:12 PM
JudyB 27 Feb 05 - 07:37 PM
mg 27 Feb 05 - 07:55 PM
Noreen 28 Feb 05 - 07:45 AM
wysiwyg 28 Feb 05 - 08:41 AM
Paco Rabanne 28 Feb 05 - 08:57 AM
Stilly River Sage 28 Feb 05 - 10:06 AM
Noreen 28 Feb 05 - 11:23 AM
wysiwyg 28 Feb 05 - 11:31 AM
CarolC 28 Feb 05 - 12:46 PM
sue exhull 28 Feb 05 - 01:31 PM
Stilly River Sage 28 Feb 05 - 02:35 PM
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Subject: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 02:39 PM

Got any? (Opinions, that is... )


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 03:00 PM

My information is almost ancient, Carol, but it used to be that fibroidectomies were done on women who hoped to become pregnant. There were no guarantees given that enough of the womb would be left for a pregnancy or that scarring wouldn't occur and prevent carrying to term. However, I have several friends who underwent the procedure and had healthy babies.

Hysterectomy with or without removal of the ovaries is no fun. I tried all other options before agreeing to one and have never regretted it. It gave me my life back. Chronic anemia is no fun either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 03:03 PM

The big H, even if the hormone replacement is an issue, as it is amongst doctors. Why? The little F doesn't get rid of them completely and you may be back to square one before you know it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 03:03 PM

Just don't do "ablation." It's bad news-- burning the uterine lining out. Picture a dead planet turned inside out, to carry around inside.

The uterus secretes estrogen, itself, along with the ovaries. Some women have found that premature loss of the uterus, even if the ovaries were left intact, causes a real problem. Others have had it taken out and blessed the day they did it for the rest of their lives.

Some women have found that depending on the type and location and growth rate of one or more fibroids, they're best left alone. They also can grow for a bit, cause pain, and then quit growing and be entirely unfelt and cause no concern

In other words it's a crapshoot, and everyone and every doc has their own experiences and opinions. The middle of the road approach seems to be, leave it in as long as you can telerate it, then have it out when the other options don't work anymore. I am sure that is most convenient for the doc. Unfortunately the inconvenience and discomfiort with that part of the body often turns into a near-hatred of that part of one's self-- a war. When docs capitalize on this (IMO) it's a war crime.

So love your uterus, and have a long chat with it (over time) in a loving fashion, like it was your aged, much-loved mum or auntie. See what it wants, and see what you can do to give that to it.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: sue exhull
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 03:12 PM

Hi, I had a hysterectomy (with removal of ovaries) when I was 37, due to Endometriosis(or however you spell it) they tried to burn a lot of it off , and removed a ovarian cyst 18 months previous to that, only to find it did no good, in fact in got worse, I did say on first op. if it looked like it would have to be repeated, wouldnt they just go ahead with hysterectomy, but they said I was too young???? Anyway, end result was the Hysterectomy, and I havent regretted it one bit (hated the hospital bit tho) I admit at that stage I didnt have a lot of choice but it was the best thing to do. Hope this helps


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 05:40 PM

I wasn't given a choice at 26. Had a hysterectomy. Looking back on it, I wish I'd had access to better medical care. The biggest problem I had with it is wieght gain and the docs denying that it was in any way related to the surgery. I was later part of a woman's thesis on just that subject; the findings indicated a high degree of weight gain after hysterectomies.

I would highly recommend you get Susan Weed's books, "Child-bearing Years, the Wise Woman Way" and "Menopausal Years, the Wise Woman Way." Neither are strictly for the title subject and they overlap a good bit. Lots of short bits on least invasive to most invasive treatments for a variety of maladies.

Susan's right about listening to your womb. See what "she" has to tell you.

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 06:24 PM

All I as a mere man know is that it's better to keep your ovaries if they're healthy, an ex of mine had her womb and ovaries removed ,and went through an accelerated menopause, and boy did she suffer. HRT can help but apparently it isn't recommended long term. Hope that helps a bit.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 08:35 PM

Depends on how old you are, whether you want more children and alot of other factors.

Leave the ovaries if possible.

Be prepared for an early onset of menopause.

Avoid synthetic hormone replacements.

Its not as easy as the medical profession makes it sound. If you have a hysterectomy you will feel like you have been hit by a truck and it takes about six months to recover. You also go through some head changes.

On the other hand, it sure is nice not to deal with that monthly cycle and not to worry about birth control.

If you PM me, I can get real specific. I had a hysterectomy in 1984.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 09:01 PM

Vaginal surgery (at least for the hysterectomy) an option that is available as long as you're in the "normal" range weight-wise. Recuperation is easier and faster. I think laparoscopy is quite a viable way to approach endometrial surgery--that's the little holes in a couple of points on your abdomen and a tool of some sort inserted through the back of your navel.

I agree about HRT--avoid the synthetic and horse urine stuff. You can get bioidentical if you need it. Mine is compounded and the hormones come from Mexican yam. If you end up with a hysterectomy but keep your ovaries, then that isn't a concern. If you lose your ovaries, that's one less cancer worry down the road.

I find the writings and lectures by Christiane Northrup very helpful. Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom is a good reference text, and she has several others out since that one.

If this is something in which you have some time to make decisions, then I think your best bet is to get two or three doctor's opinions. Don't see a little cluster of doctors who practice together, but get some good word-of-mouth recommendations and see what you can learn in your region. If you have films or other diagnostic media from tests so far, be sure to get copies and take them with you to the other doctors. That will save a lot of time and testing dollars.

Good luck, and PM if you want more particular information regarding hysterectomy done vaginally.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 09:50 PM

Re: recovery. It varies person to person. I had one day of intense discomfort in the hospital - the day after the surgery. I took no pain killers after that. Day Three I was depressed to tears. Then every day I felt better and better. I was sent home on Day Four at my request and with the doctor's approval. After two weeks of recovery I felt well enough to go back to work but the doctor said "No!!!!".

The anesthesia took about six weeks to get completely out of my system. Things tasted funny and I was weary about 2PM.

Keep in mind that I was so anemic that blood transfusions were recommended. So once I stopped bleeding I healed quickly and felt stronger and healthier than I had in years. My scar is virtually invisible. But I did have some pain around the area of the incision for years afterwards. I was told it was scar tissue.

Ask a lot of questions, Carol. And if you don't like the answers or the attitude, find another doctor. Investigate your options. New methods have reduced the pain as well as the time in the hospital. Should you go ahead with the surgery, walk as soon and as often s you can. Do the breathing exercises. Drink fluids. When I had my surgery done, the women who whined about the pain and didn't do the recommended walking took twice as long to get released.

Last, have a private nurse with you after your surgery. I didn't and I regretted it. It is reassuring to have someone nearby if only tp put your meals (broth) within reach.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 11:25 PM

The only drawback I experienced with a vaginal hysterectomy was scar tissue which had to be cauterised a couple of times a few years later; otherwise Rog and I both would have become celibate! I concluded that the doc I went to did a lousy job, though, based on what others had to say when I moved east and went to them.

I was back to work, although only half-days and only at my desk, not out selling, about 2 weeks after, but total recovery took about a month.

Also, even if you keep your ovaries, you can still have early onset menopause. I went through it around 40 yrs. old. I used motherwort and dandelion root tinctures as well as hawthorne berry tincture for my heart.

Good luck,

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: iamjohnne
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 11:56 PM

Attn: any fellas that just don't want to know--this gets detailed.

I can speak from personal (and recent) experience on this one. For the past several years I had been experienceing very heavy and painful cycles. Very heavy.
One day last spring I was at work, stood up and it was as if I was pregnant and my water broke. I flooded, it was embarrassing and just plain yucky. I finally went to the doctor. I was put on hormones and went through a battery of tests. I had an ultrasound done that showed I had a 9cm. fibroid tumor. I fiddled around and didn't do anything about it because miraculously I had stopped bleeding. Then between Christmas and Thanksgiving I started what seemed like a normal cycle. Bear in mind now, I am 55. It is time for the change to have taken place. The bleeding became heavier and heavier. And I was getting weaker and weaker. I thought I was tired because of the holidays, what with working and shopping and all the hulabaloo that goes along with the Seasons. Then one the day after Christmas I was so exhausted when I came home from work I just slept. Until time to go to work on Monday. I called in because I just couldn't make it.( I had perfect attendance for a year until then). The next day was just as bad. I finally wound up at the ER. My hemoglobin was 10. I was given iron and referred to an OB/GYN who did a D&C and hysteroscopy on New Years Eve. I thought all was well. I felt better for a week, then started bleeding again. This time it was more than heavy. It was awful, again to the ER. My hemoglobin got down to 7. The Dr. ordered 2 blood transfusions and performed a complete hysterectomy, including ovaries and tubes the next day. I am recovering, After a month I am finally getting some energy, my hemoglobin was 11 last week at the doctors. I go back to work March 16.

Now for my opinion. Go ahead and get the whole nine yards, you and Rob are not planning a family, get it done. I feel so much better than I have in several years.

Johnne C.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: rich-joy
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 12:40 AM

I am led to believe that the USA leads the world in the number of scalpel-happy surgeons, who make more bucks by ripping out women's insides at the drop-of-a-hat and with about as much consideration to the after-effects as if they were speying a cat.

As you may conclude, I am NOT a lover of hospitals or doctors!!

I therefore decided to "sit it out" with my fibroids.

But then, I am one of the "luckier" ones, because my symptoms did not include really heavy periods and lots of pain. "Just" the weight gain, some pressure on bladder and bowel, some loss of libido and some sexual discomfort, tiredness, backache - and that permanently-pregnant feeling when trying to tie your shoelaces or do the housework!!!
OK, all that sounds bad enough when considering "quality of Life" issues, but to me, with all I had read of the Hysterectomy Horrors, it felt like the best decision. If you don't have a innate fear and distrust of hospitals, you may be quite OK.

However, I did have an MRI scan, as the largest of my fibroids was fairly big (10x15x12) - just to ensure that there was no evidence of cancer.

If I could have afforded it, a few years ago I would have had a UAE : Uterine Artery Embolisation - but the proceedure was regarded as relatively "new" in Oz and would have cost me a minimum of A$7000.oo - and I had nothing like that figure to spend!!!

When I was first diagnosed, there seemed to be little information on Fibroids, in Oz - in fact, most women I spoke to were unaware of such a thing!! Now there is a stack of info on the wondrous Internet and many books are available. e.g.

"FIBROIDS : the Complete Guide to Taking Charge of Your Physical, Emotional and Sexual Well-Being" by Johanna Skilling.
Marlowe & Co, NY, 2000

There are also websites where (similar to Mudcat), you can discuss every aspect with other women in your situation ...

Meanwhile, at almost 54 years, I take Chinese herbs, have acupuncture, don't WALK nearly as much as I should to get that circulation going!, try to release the issues that may have contributed to this uterine congestion in the first place - and wait for the end of Menopause when they are supposed to shrink anyway!!

But I have to admit, Life With Fibroids can get a trife Teejus!!


Cheers! R-J


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 12:53 AM

About 3/4 way down the page.

Site worth reading what pertains.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: rich-joy
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:14 AM

yeah, good info - thanks Brucie!


Cheers! R-J


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 03:02 AM

When they rip-out your claim to FEMALE

And while they are down there;



Request that the gall-bladder and appendix,

are also paritioned into the total opportunity.



(Nobody, wants to go through this shit twice or thrice)



Barter on the surgergy table - Shout OUT!!!! "All or nothing - you ain't getting a second chance."



Unless, of course you are of that peculiar female style that requires attention from "parent-type-adults" wrapped in antisceptic butcher-wrap on a bi-yearly basis - and the attention and acetaminophen enriched atmosphere of the "time out corner" gives you a buzz.



Sincerely,

Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 09:32 AM

LOL. Ibuprophen, .gargoyle, not acetaminophen. It's the only thing that works.

My situation is kind of weird, I think. I've been having symptoms for years... bad ones, too (chronic anemia, heavy everything, lots of pain, etc. and I'm sure I've had fibroids for many years), but the doctors never said anything about surgery. But this last doctor visit, while palpating my abdomen, the doctor said my uterus felt rather large and he ordered an ultra-sound, which did show the presence of fibroids. Dr. hasn't told me how large they are or anything, but he thinks they may be too large for the vaginal hysterectomy.

He just automatically suggested the hysterectomy (leaving in the ovaries) without even mentioning the possibility of other procedures. I was the one who brought them up. He said if I were a member of his family, he would recommend the procedure. A big part of his reasoning seemed to be that if I didn't have a uterus or a cervix, I wouldn't ever have to worry about getting cancer of those parts.

He also said I might begin to experience the very symptoms I've been experiencing for many years, as though this would be a new thing for me (he didn't seem to realize I've been having quite severe ones for years, even though I've told him), but which lately seem to have been getting much less severe. Cycles are shortening... 15 to 23 days instead of 30 to 33, but everything else has been becoming a lot easier to tolerate over the last several months. (Less pain, less heavy everything, etc.).

I must admit, I'm not at all happy about the idea of losing those particular body parts. I appreciate them and the jobs they do. The Dr. seemed to think hysterectomies are without any side issues and the only sensible alternative. He never even mentined the possibility of waiting until menopause to see if they would shrink (I'm 49... I might not have to wait all that long to find out). He even suggested that they would be likely to continue to grow after menopause. The Mayo Clinic website says they are more likely to shrink after menopause than to grow.

I'm finding myself feeling distrustful of this doctor, even though I have been quite pleased with him in the past. I'm thinking about the sonic scalpel procedure to remove just the fibroids as a possibility. Does anyone know if that carries any significant risks?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: iamjohnne
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 09:47 AM

Carol,

If you don't trust the doctor, get another opinion. My fibroids did not shrink after menopause, although most do. That was why I kept putting off the surgery. But mine became threatening when my hemoglobin went from 10 which is low anyway, to seven in less than two weeks. I don't know about removing just the fibroids. My doctor tried with just a D&C and hysteroscopy but that did not resolve the issue.
Talk to another doctor if you are not sure. It is after all your body that they are talking about.

Johnne


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 10:45 AM

Thanks Johnne. I sent you a PM.

I also am curious about what happens to the PMS if there is no longer a noticable cycle. In other words, if you have ovaries and you get PMS, but you don't (ahem) bleed, does the PMS ever go away?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 11:09 AM

PMS may lessen (or change in some other way) because the uterine estrogen is out of the picture, but you have to see how your own body takes it all.

The whole endocrine system is so inter-related that any change in it is like taking out one part of a Swiss watch. The good news tho is that the body adjusts itself to the change.

An affected area of function -- because it's interrelated-- is going to be the adrenal system. It gets worn out coping with all this physically, with PMS, with anemia, and with the worries about it all. I used Christiane Northrup's formula for that. Six months on her supplement program (in Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom, per SRS link above), and you start to feel like you're getting back in the game. That book is a must-have for women!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: dianavan
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 11:25 AM

Carol - My previous statement regarding recovery may have been misleading. I was actually up and walking the next day (they make you do it) and home in three days. I was unable to return to work for two weeks. It took about 6 weeks to recover physically and I had no problems with scarring. They made a bikini incision and you can't see it unless I point it out. When I said 6 months, I meant that it took that long to adjust to the loss of my uterus. For me it was a grieving process and a process of accepting the fact that I was no longer in the child-bearing category. Once I accepted my new body, I was just fine and never looked back. Do your exercises!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: GUEST,CarolC
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 12:25 PM

By the way, I forgot to do this before... I wan't to thank everyone who has posted to this thread. Your posts are very helpful to me. I really am looking for as much information about as many different experiences as possible, so I'm definitely getting a lot out of all of your posts.

I will be sending PMs to all those who have offered as time permits.

dianavan, I admit to having a little chuckle when I read this part of your first post, "you will feel like you have been hit by a truck". The reason being that I pretty much always feel like I've been hit by at least one truck. Sometimes more than one. But that's also because of many other issues besides the "female" type ones.

WYSIWYG, I'm not sure I can do the supplements in Dr. Northrup's book because of my food allergies. I'm guessing her regimen includes a lot of vitamin B6, to which I am quite allergic. Can you tell me (before I buy the book) whether or not B6 is an important part of her supplement program? (Incidently, I am also unable to take any multiple vitamin supplements because I have not yet found any that don't contain significant amounts of B6. Another problem is finding other supplements that are not derived from corn, to which I am also very allergic.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:12 PM

Ah yes,iamjohnne. Those were the good old days. Twenty-one day long periods requiring doubled and tripled maxi pads, crying in frustration at the horrific pain, sleeping on towels, iron supplements. Fond memories.

As to menopause. Mother Nature had a field day with me. Started menstruating at 8 1/2. At 57, I am in menopause. 12 more years of chronic anemia - I don't think so.

Three days after a D&C, I was menstruating full force. The doctor had me come in to see for himself - he didn't believe me. My ultimatum: "You take it out or I will."

And of course there were the tcchhh tcchhers who looked at me in dismay and said "You know doctors do it all the time now whether you need it or not to pay for their equipment."

Do your homework and make your decision based on trust in your doctor and common sense. Good luck, Carol.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:22 PM

Carol, no B6 would be necessary; as I recall there would normally be a B-complex just for general health, but you certainly can get those from eating well. What you CANNOT get from eating well is enough B5 tho-- pantothenic acid-- in big numbers. Also there is not enough of it, in any "stress" supplement marketed. Please PM if you want me to PM you my info about adrenal recovery taken from her book and from my own experience. I think I have it as a saved message from sending it to others.

If you want to build yourself up before major decisions or surgery, I'd allow six months, for exercise, nutrition, and adrenal recovery supplements. These are also things you would be wise address now even if you don't have surgery. You CAN at least feel better! :~)

BTW when I have had supplement allergies, it's been from the filler used in making them, not the item itself. YMMV.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:33 PM

Ahah-- what I have is the URL where I posted all I know about adrenal recovery, at the Annexe:

CLICK HERE

Just correct for supplement-allergies and get as much as you can from food.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 02:05 PM

The problem with the supplements (beyond just the fillers) is that many of the actual nutrients these days are derived from corn. Most brands of Vitamin E, most ascorbic acid (vit. C), most brands of calcium... this page should give you an idea of what I am up against when it comes to finding suplements that don't contain corn. I've been looking for a company that can guaranee corn-free supplements, but I haven't had much luck so far. Plus, I am also allergic to several other things as well. I'm sure my inability to get proper nutrition because of the allergies is a contributing factor in my general lack of robust health.

But thanks for the link to the info on adrenal recovery. I will check it out.

Sinsull and Johnne, you both have my deepest sympathy on the severety of your symptoms. I'm glad you were able to get things sorted out to your satisfacion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 03:38 PM

Carol, you might check with Nutri-West. They can answer any questions over the phone, plus they have a catalogue and search function online. They advertise all of their products as hypoallergenic. I checked a couple of them and didn't see any corn fillers listed. I have taken some of their supplements as prescribed by my acupunturist and not had a problem, though I don't have near the allergies that you do. Good luck.

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 05:37 PM

Oh, right, the corn thing-- I forgot. I dunno, but you should be able to find at least the B5 somewhere!

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 07:29 PM

Pantothenic Acid (B5) is readily available in 'health food' stores.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 08:00 PM

Excellent thread Carol and the info is quite good. May I inject a bit of humor in this often humorless subject?

It took me awhile to get used to living with Karen. She is a histotech, meaning her job is a bit weird. When anything is removed, sectioned, or biopsied on anyone, living or dead in a hospital, the tissue samples go through the lab. In the histology lab, the "big parts" are cut by a pathologist into "small parts" which go through several and varied procedures so they can be cut and mounted (with the cells colored for easier diagnosis) on a slide for the path to read and discuss with your doctor. I am proud to tell you BTW, that she is the lead tech on the main production shift in a hospital lab that does NOT make you wait. If you have your surgery before 5 PM, your doc, in most cases, will have back complete results the next morning, not just the frozen sections. Anyway, she's good at her job.

It took awhile to get used to normal conversation to include lines like, "I had to run down to the morgue and get the arm out of the freezer." Or, "The tumor was the size of a basketball but after it drained it was amybe as small as a golf ball." Geeziz......this is weird stuff as you try to eat supper. I got used to it and now it's as normal as breathing. But it can still be interesting.........

We're at a party and the group we are sitting with are talking about strange things that happened to them on the job that day. Karen generally doesn't join into party talk and we would neither one have been at this one except out of obligations on my job. Neither of us could later figure why she was inspired to speak up at this time, but as a lull came in the chit-chat, Karen said, "We had a four pound uterus today,"

It was like the stock commercial where everyone goes silent. Not a sound could be heard for what seemed miles around and at least 6 hours! It wasn't that long of course but it wassilent!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: rich-joy
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 08:06 PM

CarolC - I can't urge enough, for you to investigate ALL the options before "The Big H" - and ESPECIALLY more than one medical opinion!!! All my doctor knew of was "Hysterectomy" too - he'd never even heard of the alternatives - and he was perplexed at my resistance, saying "but you don't ever want children, so why not just have it all out?" :-))))   (strangely, female GP doctors are often no better in this regard!!)

Science cannot agree on the causes for Fibroids and particularly for those that "get out of hand". It probably varies from woman to woman anyway - in my case it seems to be linked to being on The Pill for 33 years straight. I never seemed to have any problems with this contaceptive method, so the doctors "left well-enough alone"!! It was only at that late 40s-early 50s time of life, that it became evident that I was NOT getting off scott-free!!

Below is a link to one of MANY sites that detail the UAE treatment for Fibroids. It's not suitable for every case, but you may be lucky.

UAE - Uterine Artery Embolisation - is probably THE LEAST INVASIVE medical method for Fibroid treatment, which is a plus straight off!!!
Please check it out.

http://www.fibroidworld.com/UAE.htm

Also, check out the natural homeopathic treatment alternatives and the Chinese herbal and acupuncture treatments. If you DO decide to go for the chop, having as strong and healthy a system as possible is critical and these natural health practices will help you more than any damned pharmaceutical company product!!!!!!

Just my 2c worth ...

Cheers! (and Good Luck)
R-J


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 08:12 PM

An Aside to Spaw: did you happen to see the woman on Oprah the other day? She'd had a tumour since childhood which apparently most docs thought was inoperable. (I missed the first part.) Anyway, when they took it out, it was 300 LBS!!! Hell of a way to diet!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: rich-joy
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 08:22 PM

This was also a good book, detailing the rugged journey through the Hysterectomy INDUSTRY and the eventual path to good health :

Sex, Lies, and the Truth About Uterine Fibroids
A journey from diagnosis to treatment to renewed good health
Carla Dionne, Executive Director, National Uterine Fibroids Foundation
Foreward by Scott C. Goodwin, M.D.
ISBN: 1583330704

and her journal and much info are on the website :

www.uterinefibroids.com

Cheers! R-J


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 11:10 AM

Carol, you have probably already realized that this is a subjective call--the symptoms may not be fatal but can be terribly debilitating. The surgeries have various outcomes. Though it took about six months of tweaking to get the HRT adjusted to what felt like "me," I'm satisfied with that outcome. I found the constant bleeding frightening and inconvenient for just the few weeks that I experienced it; I can't imagine dealing with it for months or years. Of course, my surgery was prescribed because the bleeding polyp was cancerous, and the hysterectomy provided the "clear margin" needed to pronounce it cured.

Choose or don't choose whatever surgery for your quality of life reasons. For me, the prospect of continual bleeding would beg the question "how much is too much?" and the inconvenience of always bleeding (an abnormal and restrictive occurance) would dictate surgery to resolve the problem. There may well be too many hysterectomies in the U.S.; I remember as a young woman resolving that I was going to go into my crone years intact, that no doctor was going to tell me "you're not using it anymore, let's rip it outta there." That didn't happen. I went through a period of mourning, at having lost such an elemental part of myself, one of those "chakras" that we hear about, etc. But I'm past that now, and I'm alive.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 11:57 AM

Speaking of dinner table conversation, it was determined a number of years ago that I had a couple of problamatic cysts on my ovaries, which inconveniently and painfully, according to my hormone levels, bled into my body cavity once a month. The doctor described one as the size of a grapefruit and the other as an orange.

I speculated that it was odd that doctors always seem to compare these things to fruit, to which my husband suggested that it was easier in our culture to discuss fruit at the dinner table than to bring up the topic of monkey's heads.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: GUEST,Metchosin
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 11:58 AM

oops, I'm a guest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: GUEST,CarolC
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 11:59 AM

Thanks for the perspective, SRS.

Great story, Spaw. I'm going to have to remember that line. It could come in handy some time.

Thanks to all who have posted more information. I'll definitely see about the pantothenic acid (if I can find some not made from corn ;-)...

About the Uterine Artery Embolisation, I'm a bit concerned about that one. One of the sites I encountered gave some statistics about women who had bad reactions to the particles that were put in their blood as a part of the process. Being as allergy-prone and chemical intolerant as I seem to be, that would be a big consideration for me.

Does anyone have any first-hand knowledge of women who have had their fibroids removed with a sonic scalpel? Also, does anyone have any first-hand knowledge of women who have had their fibroids removed using myolysis? (Myolysis is the use of a laparoscopic incision and an electrical current to the fibroid.)

Thanks again, everybody.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: GUEST,CarolC
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 12:02 PM

LOL, Metchosin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: Hawker
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 06:12 PM

Carol,
I had a haemorrhaghing problem that left me so weak and tired that I sought help - far later than I should really. I had a hysterectomy at 38. They also removed one ovary as it was polycystic. I have not got more of a weight problem than I had before, infact I a stone lighter. I feel so much better and have heaps more energy. I had a hormonal blip after about 3 days for 24 hours and experienced premature menopause about 4 months after surgery, but not insufferable to get through. My husband is delighted with the new me - no more monthly mood swings ( I'm nasty all the time now LOL) and sex is good too! I found it good for me, but everybody is different. I wish you well whatever you decide and send you kind thoughts to get through it your way, to a successful conclusion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: JudyB
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 07:37 PM

Carol -

I'd like to reinforce the importance of finding the right doctor, even if he or she eventually says the same thing. When my periods reached the point that I had 3-5 days a month without heavy bleeding, I knew I had to do something. When I went to discuss it with my OB-GYN and asked about fibroidectomies, he said something like "oh, you've been reading those women's magazines, haven't you?" I answered politely and never went back (would possibly have been more useful if I'd discussed how unhelpful that remark was, but I was younger then). I ended up having a hysterectomy (too many fibroids and future children weren't an issue), but I was comfortable knowing that my new doctor had considered the alternatives and that she removed only what was essential (I still have my cervix, and had itsy-bitsy periods every month for years afterwards - useful to help me know where my hormones were in the cycle). During the 6 weeks I was required to be out of work, Charlie and I went (with my doctor's blessing) to the Caribbean for the first time - swimming in that warm water and knowing I wouldn't suddenly have an embarrassing incident was WONDERFUL! It was years ago and theories have changed - I was on Lupron (sp?) for a couple of months to force me into menopause temporarily so I could get unanemic enough to self-donate blood before surgery (didn't need it, but useful just in case). Like some of the other folks, I'm much better now than I was before. I think I'm in menopause now (harder to tell, but I'm pretty sure) and there have been some changes but they've been gradual and we've found ways to adapt (and my Crohn's disease is better! - though maybe that's not related). PM me if you have any questions - but it was years ago and much of my info is out of date.
   - JudyB


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: mg
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 07:55 PM

I would get at least one opinion from a teaching hospital..must be one in Atlanta if you are somewhat close. But Mudcat is the second best...mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: Noreen
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 07:45 AM

Excuse me butting in, but WYSIWYG, where did you get the information that
The uterus secretes estrogen, itself, along with the ovaries?


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 08:41 AM

Northrup's book.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 08:57 AM

This is amazing!!! My beloved was diagnosed this very morning as having fibroids! I will print this off for her to read tonight. The next stage for her is see her own doctor in Whitby and make an appointment for an ultrascan. All human life is on mudcat eh what?
             Flamenco, still the true path!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 10:06 AM

Here is a National Institutes of Health (NIH) page that will give you some useful information also.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: Noreen
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:23 AM

I have not heard of Dr. Christiana Northrup before today, and from a Google search it appears that she is excellent at producing and selling books.

Some of the things she says though sound very odd from the mouth of a qualified doctor, e.g. "Estrogen...tends to irritate the nervous system. Progesterone, on the other hand, is associated with tranquility" (apparently from the book referred to earlier in this thread, and quotred in nutri-notes)

Theer are others who are not such fans of Dr. Northrup: A Question of Accountability (my ordeal as a patient of Dr. Christiane Northrup MD)

I have no axe to grind here, but since I have never seen in any other source that oestrogen is produced by the uterus, I would tend to disbelieve this unless I had information from elsewhere to back it up.

Noreen Keene
Information Officer
NHS Direct


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:31 AM

She was trained as a regular MD and once she began her practice, saw how ridiculously women are usually treated. She then began to explore other aspects of medicine and add them to her training. I'm not here to represent her, but I have never gone wrong with her advice myself.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 12:46 PM

"Estrogen...tends to irritate the nervous system. Progesterone, on the other hand, is associated with tranquility"

I don't know if I would agree with everything Dr. Northrup has to say, but I definitely have found this statement to be true in my own experience.

Thanks for the great information and personal anecdotes everybody. I'm still doing a lot of searching for info online as well as here. At this point I'm not any closer to knowing what I'm going to do than I was before, but I do feel a much greater sense of ease about not rushing ahead with any decisions, and that is in no small part because of the input I've gotten from the posts in this thread as well as from what people have said to me in PMs.

flamenco ted, I recommend that you and/or your beloved do a lot of online research on this subject as well as reading what's been recommended in this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: sue exhull
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 01:31 PM

Not to cause a scare but....... 20 odd years ago my aunt was diagnosed with fibroids at 42, 6 month later she gave birth to a son !!!!! :) she was quite surprised !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Hysterectomy vs Fibroidectomy: Opinions?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 02:35 PM

There have been stories like that around also: (Sixty Minutes did a story a couple of decades ago about an old small-town doctor who regularly misdiagnosed and mutilated pregnant women).

I'm sure that not all will agree with Northrup, that goes without saying of any practitioner in any field, and also because she does represent a more holistic and feminist school of thought. She has been seen in lectures here in the US for a number of years on the Public Broadcasting System, and peppers her medical talks with a lot of common sense. I found the appendices in her books to be very useful when evaluating and researching my own health issues. (Another one who did very useful lectures was Judith Reichman, MD, who also produced a few books as the result of the popularity of her lectures).

Northrup has produced several large books, but I suspect they're the product of a collective with her staff or colleagues to put together research-wise, with her text layered in. I don't read this kind of book cover-to-cover, I pick it up to get a general introduction and then go to the chapters that pertain to the reason I picked it up in the first place.

I hope this helps in evaluating her work. If you're interested in the real hard-core feminist view of women's medicine, the 25-Anniversary edition of Our Bodies, Ourselves is coming out this year. I have the earlier edition, so I'll probably pick this one up also. :)

SRS


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