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Tech: Can this be fixed without a technician?

RangerSteve 13 Feb 05 - 07:22 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 13 Feb 05 - 07:31 PM
Nick 13 Feb 05 - 07:44 PM
Amos 13 Feb 05 - 07:46 PM
Bill D 13 Feb 05 - 08:13 PM
GUEST,ragdall 13 Feb 05 - 08:25 PM
Little Hawk 13 Feb 05 - 09:11 PM
Bill D 13 Feb 05 - 11:35 PM
Stilly River Sage 13 Feb 05 - 11:44 PM
JohnInKansas 13 Feb 05 - 11:58 PM
Teresa 14 Feb 05 - 12:10 AM
Stilly River Sage 14 Feb 05 - 12:12 AM
mack/misophist 14 Feb 05 - 02:22 AM
Teresa 14 Feb 05 - 02:51 AM
Richard Bridge 14 Feb 05 - 03:23 AM
JohnInKansas 14 Feb 05 - 08:51 AM
Nick 14 Feb 05 - 09:06 AM
Uncle_DaveO 14 Feb 05 - 09:38 AM
JohnInKansas 14 Feb 05 - 10:27 AM
GUEST,leeneia 14 Feb 05 - 01:33 PM
RangerSteve 14 Feb 05 - 06:25 PM
Little Hawk 14 Feb 05 - 06:38 PM
GUEST,Willie-O 15 Feb 05 - 08:40 AM
Uncle_DaveO 15 Feb 05 - 01:22 PM
Mr Red 15 Feb 05 - 01:24 PM
Bill D 15 Feb 05 - 03:53 PM
Stilly River Sage 15 Feb 05 - 03:59 PM
Bill D 15 Feb 05 - 04:37 PM
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Subject: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:22 PM

This has happened before. I'm surfing the net blindly, going from link to link, when suddenly I have a website where a window pops up that says: do you want make (name) your homepage?

You click "no", and it doesn't matter, it's now your home page and you can't get rid of it. This wouldn't be bad if the homepage wasn't pornographic, which it is in most cases.

I was told to just disconnect from the net and restart the computer.
I did this the last time it happened, but this pornagraphic site is still my homepage. It stops me from using any other search engine by making it an illegal function, which shuts my computer down. There are also vaguely pornographic pop up ads. It also adds porn sites to my list of favorites. I can temporarily make another site my homepage, but it only works until I turn disconnect from the internet.

Is there a way to fix this without taking the computer to a repair shop?

If there is, please talk down to me as if I knew next to nothing about computers, because I don't

Thanks, Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:31 PM

Steve,

You seem to have picked up a Trojan. This, as the name suggests, looks innocent until it gets into your computer, then hijacks it. Resetting your homepage is typical of these pests. A couple of questions:-

1. Do you use an antivirus program, and if so, which one?
2. Do you have a firewall installed, and if so, which one.

Get back to me with the answers, then I will know how to advise you.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Nick
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:44 PM

Go to the Ad Aware site and download a free copy of Ad Aware.

Likelihood is it will sort your problem


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:46 PM

ANd turn off popups if your browser will do that.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 08:13 PM

Hijackthis might help


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: GUEST,ragdall
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 08:25 PM

Steve,
If you see a message like that again (after you get this cleared up), do not click on it. Use the Alt key and the F4 key together to close that window.

In the settings for your browser, you will have a field in which to indicate your home page URL. Find that and click on the field. If there is only one URL there, you can probably delete it (highlight it then use Backspace key) and type in the URL of the page you want as a homepage. In the version of Internet Explorer I use, it's found in the Tools drop down menu, in the Internet Options window. If you are using a different browser, try a search for "homepage" in the "Help" file.

If you find multiple URL's in the field in which to indicate your home page URL, you have a trojan and will have to remove it.

Good luck!
rags


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 09:11 PM

There's also a free version of AVG Antivirus on the Net. If you install that, it can help weed out these things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 11:35 PM

AVG won't touch the homepage hijacking problem.....this is not a 'virus' in the technical sense...it tricks you into somehow allowing it, even if you are not aware you did...then it has built in ways to resist UNinstalling.

do a search on "HiJackthis"


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 11:44 PM

And here I was complaining to Max the other day about one of those "download millions of songs" sites that is on the main Mudcat page. It takes over the screen, knocks everything on your desktop for a loop, and is difficult to get rid of and reset. I spent 30 minutes trying to clear up the mess after clicking on the thing. So much for useful "ads" on those Google ads on the sides of our pages.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 11:58 PM

This is probably NOT a virus, and in most cases an AV program can't do anything about it. The page, or the popup, was rigged so that any click anywhere is the "install" button. When you clicked the X, the program lied to your browser and said you gave permission to download and install a program. Once it's installed, it's just another program - that YOU installed - as far as AV is concerned.

In IE, you can right click the button on the bottom toolbar and select close to shut down such stuff without clicking on it. If there's more than one window on the button, clicking the button opens the "window shade" and right-clicking the instance you want to close will still let you shut it down without clicking anywhere on the page.

This is a "toolbar hijack" program, and in it's simplest form it's an "AdWare" program. They get paid for everyone who clicks their search bar to go to a site. Since they lied to get it on your machine, it's quite likely it's also a "SpyWare" program. It may include nasties like a "keystroke logger" to report everything you type back to someone, or a "zombie" to turn your machine into a spam sending robot. Until you get rid of it, NOTHING on your machine should be considered safe.

The current favored free programs are AdAware and Spybot, and either or sometimes both can get rid of most such stuff. For protecting yourself from new infections, and also for removing existing ones, the current top rated - this week only - is Webroot Spy Sweeper, but it's not free. You can get a free scan at Webroot but it won't fix anything unless you buy the program. (Look for the Scan button near the right edge of the page.) It may help by giving you a name for what you've got that you can look up (Google - if it will let you use it) to see if there's a cheaper way to get rid of it.

Note the "this week only." There is NO organization for tracking new threats of this kind or for sharing info on removals. The most promising such organization fell apart last week when someone sold a membership to one of the leading Spyware distributors, and at least 3 or the founding organizations quit in disgust. New "exploits" pop up so frequently that NO ANTSPYWARE PROGRAM can be considered "best" except for the few moments after it passes the latest lab test.

Some of the Server-level Security systems have started including detection and removal of this stuff, and a very few of the "full-suite" user programs give some protection, but normal AV does not. Recent "top pick" suites are "Norton Internet Security 2005" and/or "ZoneAlarm Security Suite 5.5," but you need the "full suite" to get ANY real protection here ($69.95 list price for either, I believe).

A pretty good, and current, review of Security Suites is at PC Magazine Feb 2, 2005. Several cheaper, or free, programs that may fit your needs are also reviewed there, and looking at what each suite does best or not so best will help you to understand what you're trying to accomplish. If you don't want to keep clicking the "Next" button, you can click on "Print," near the bottom of the article near the "Next" button, to get most of the article in one piece. (This site usually blocks direct links to the "printable" version, or I'd have linked directly.)

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Teresa
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 12:10 AM

The good thing about antivirus, anti-spyware, and firewall applications is that once they're running fairly constantly and updating regularly, they don't need much babysitting, and chances of getting the nasties are way down.

Since I've started using a popup blocker, I've had no problems with trojans. Any operating system worth it's salt will have a way to block popups. If it doesn't, grab the Google popup blocker on the Google tools page. It has no spyware and is very cooperative and low-maintenance.

Teresa


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 12:12 AM

Good information, John, as usual.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 02:22 AM

Consider not using windows. All these things are set for windows.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Teresa
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 02:51 AM

I feel the need to rant:

[rant]
People use what they can use and what they are familiar with. It's very disconcerting to try and make something you have work, and have someone tell you to change horses in the middle of the stream. Analogous to: "I'm having trouble tuning my guitar." "Well, then, play a whistle; it doesn't need tuning." Grrrrrr!!! And I know fairly well why people make these suggestions, but it's more helpful in foresight than in hindsight. Just speaking from my few years' experience teaching seniors to use computers.
[/rant]

Ok, I feel better now. No offense to individuals intended; just a trend that's gotten under my skin. But I'm all better now. :)

teresa


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 03:23 AM

As John says, Antivirus, firewall, most antispyware, all useless in this situation. You might try a popupstopper (and popunderstopper) such as "EndTask" although I found this particular program little help and rather unrelliable but there are others. Try Tucows for free ones.

Article on "CoolWebSearch" in January PC Pro (UK) suggests CW shredder, although no longer being updated, as the best removal tool. www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/downloads.html.

Also mentions BHOCop and CleanMyPC (but gives no link) for removing so-called "browser helper objects".

I repeat advice that once you have a clean install, put data and stuff on new partition, back up OS partition using Norton Ghost. That way you can usually get back to that clean install in about 20 minutes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 08:51 AM

To answer, sort of, Ranger Steve's original question, "Is there a way to fix this without taking the computer to a repair shop?":

1. Fixing most such problems is relatively simple, since there is some good free software available that will do most of it for you.

2. Fixing problems of this sort yourself is good for you because it will help you understand what is "out there" that is dangerous.

3. Fixing the worst of such problems can be among the most difficult "mainenance" things you'll need to get done, if you've run into a particularly nasty case; and even experienced users often need help.

One of the first things you should do is to make notes about what your crudware does. Check the address bar and write down where the new toolbar is connecting you, and any "labels" that apply to the toolbar. If you can remember, make a note of where you were when the popup appeared.

DO NOT start blindly deleting things until you have made a plan, and figured out what needs to be done.

Since you haven't said what operating system you're using, I'll assume WinXP. Specific steps may differ if you use something else, but the general principles are the same.

In WinXP and/or WinME you should turn off System Restore before starting a cleanup. Right-Click on My Computer, either the desktop icon or in Windows Explorer. Click the System Restore tab and click to put a check mark in the box for "Turn off System Restore on All Drives." Click "Apply" and then "OK" to exit. System Restore keeps copies of Registry entries in a restricted folder that CANNOT be accessed by any external programs. If a Reg copy has been made since your machine was attacked, System Restore could put an "infected Registry" back into use, effectively reinstalling what you've removed. Turning it off deletes all old copies. AFTER you're cleaned up, turn it back on and new backups will be made everytime you turn off or restart the computer.

It's a good idea to run a disk cleanup (Start – Programs – Accessories – System Tools – Disk Cleanup) and clear all the temp files, especially temporary internet files, before doing any general maintenance.

Some hijacker programs will actually "register" themselves in Windows so that you can uninstall them. You should go to Start – Settings – Control Panel, double-click Add or Remove Programs and look to see if you can identify the toolbar that was installed. If you do see something here, you should click on it and uninstall it. If the program is here, it means that a log was made during installation, and removing it here can read back the log and is most likely to do a complete removal.
a. Don't be surprised if it doesn't appear, since much spyware hides it's installation.
b. Even if the program "uninstalls," stuff like this often has additional associated malware that is hidden from Windows.

Download one or more of the recognized AntiSpyware programs. Note that some malware of the kind you described may try to prevent you from going to AntiSpyware download sites, although it's fairly rare.

Recommended Practice: When downloading programs, you should generally save the download to disk. Install, usually just by double-clicking the downloaded file, only after the download is complete. Make a "Downloads" folder, and put each download in a separate subfolder with the program name on it so you'll remember what it is later.

Spybot S&D has been highly recommended by most tech resources in recent months. It has some of the best removal capabilities around, and you should have it on your machine to scan regularly even when you don't have a problem. (Take a moment to read messages at this site to get an idea of how dirty this business is.) READ the tutorial. Then READ the tutorial. Then download the file. Install and Run.

Since there is no general agreement on what actually is spyware, and since new ones appear almost daily, it is strongly recommended that you scan with more than one program on a regular basis, and of course any time you have, or recently had, a problem. For general users, Lavasoft Ad-Aware is probably the most commonly recommended second program. You should go to their site. READ their tutorial/instructions, Download, install, and run the program. Do this even if it looks like Spybot cleaned up your problem.

Note that Ad-Aware uses a "more paranoid" definition of what actually is spyware. It likely will find a lot of "adware" that other AntiSpyware programs ignore as "annoying but harmless." "Fixing" this stuff is also "mostly harmless," but Ad-Aware does also do a pretty good job on the real malware.

Also note that most "file sharing" and "music sharing" programs contain spyware, and letting an AntiSpyware program remove the spyware component will probably make the programs stop working. Kazaa is the notorious example, but most music download programs track everything you download (so they can let the RIAA sue you instead of them).

If running Spybot and Ad-Aware doesn't clear your problem, then you probably don't have one of the easy ones. The best help for more serious problems can be found at one of the support sites like Major Geeks. This is also where you get "advanced user" programs like Hijack This. The usual procedure on such sites is that they will tell you what things you should do first, they will specify a particular program you should run to make a log of what's on your machine and what it's doing. You post a request and the log, and an expert volunteer tells you what to do next.

If you need to proceed, you should go to the Hijack This link above and read the "Basic Spyware, Trojan And Virus Removal tutorial" from the link about halfway down the page. If you want help from this site, or other similar sites, it is imperative that you follow instructions exactly. No shortcuts. If you follow the instructions in the "Basic tutorial," including downloading and running all 12 of the specified AntiSpyware programs (including the 2 above), and still have a problem, then READ AND FOLLOW the "official Hijack This Tutorial And How To Post Your Log File" from the link just below the "tutorial" link. In their words, this "can help you analyze your log file or explain how to post it so we can analyze it for you."

If you've reached this point, and you don't think you can follow the instructions, then the answer is "take it to the shop," although most of these volunteers appear to be pretty good.

As supplemental info, for others who might need help, or just want to look at what's "out there, "there's Alliance of Security Analysts which provides links to similar (mostly) volunteer sites. Take your pick from any in the "Recommended Sites" sidebar on the left. I haven't looked at many of them, so I can't make any recommendations.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Nick
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 09:06 AM

>>Stilly River Sage

>>So much for useful "ads" on those Google ads on the sides of our pages.

Google without ads 1

Google without ads 2


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 09:38 AM

On my computer, running XP pro, Ad-Aware routinely finds and deletes things that Spybot S&D misses. I have never encountered the reverse situation.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 10:27 AM

DaveO -

As mentioned above, Ad-Aware finds a lot of stuff that many other programs simply ignore. There is considerable debate in the industry about what constitutes "acceptable" adware. Cookies that report that "somebody" visited a site, even if they report that "somebody came from that site to this site" are not considered objectionable by many of the AS programs, as long as they don't personally identify who "somebody" is.

Ad-Aware takes the approach that any cookie from any organization that "collects statistics" is adware, and reports them all. Other AS programs only report the ones that report who you are or that give personal information such as your zip code, etc, or that affect computer operation.

There's the additional complication that some cookies that contain "personally identifiable" information may be good for you. Microsoft recently removed the "Yahoo Weather Reporter" cookie from its detection list in the MS (beta) AntiSpyware program. The cookie reports your zip code in order to deliver "instant local weather reports." The program can't function without knowing where you are, and you have to ask for it, so it's a legitimate use.

The difference between Ad-Aware and Spybot is just that they're using different rules to decide what's important. Both do a reasonably good job of detecting and removing significant invasions of your privacy. Ad-Aware just sweeps up around the edges a little more. I've never seen Ad-Aware detect anything additional that was a concern to me when I run it after a Spybot scan; but you may have different concerns than I do.

Lab tests generally indicate that Spybot has been a little better at removing things that are likely to affect your computer's performance and/or to reveal significant personal information, and Spybot has been a little better at keeping up with "new threats;" although there is NO PROGRAM that can give you total protection, because all the ways of screwing you haven't been found yet.

Ad-Aware has, in the recent past, been able to clean a few specific significant threats that many other programs couldn't; and the same has been true for Spybot - for other significant threats. New threats appear almost daily, and both programs are updated constantly, so it's impossible to say which one is "best" without adding "for now."

It's not just how many things a program finds. It's whether it finds the ones that matter - and can do something about them. You choose your program(s) according to what you want them to do. Everybody needs a couple of programs in the current internet environment.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 01:33 PM

I want to thank all of you who are providing so much help and information. It's good of you.

I'll remember that Alt + F4 tip. A lot of people don't even know about Alt + F4.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 06:25 PM

I know that you're not supposed to click "NO" when asked if you want to change your home page. I clicked "start" "shut down" and "restart" and still got the unwanted home page.

Ragdall - thanks, but it didn't work.

John in Kansas, thanks, I'll try that tonight. thanks for making the instructions plain enough for me to follow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Feb 05 - 06:38 PM

You know, upon reading the title of this thread, the first thing I thought of was a woefull looking guy standing there with an arrow through his head...


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: GUEST,Willie-O
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 08:40 AM

One of the random messages that sometimes appears at the top of the forum specifies that recent Mudcat reliability problems are related to the "funwebproducts" infection. Symptoms are constant popups relating to "smileycentral.com", "protect your computer from viruses" come-ones, and non-stop appearance of the "work offline/try again" dialogue box if you try to run your PC without being online. There are a few links mentioned but none of them has an authoritative cure.

This has been infecting my laptop since last fall and I haven't been able to remove it. I've updated and used Spybot, Ad-Aware SE and HijackThis, plus gone through some registry editing procedures.

Anyone been able to successfully completely remove this extremely malignant beastie? And by=the-by, in what way would this affect Mudcat at the server end?

W-O


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:22 PM

Speaking of Mudcat's notice that "the recent Mudcat problems" are due to the funwebproducts stuff, I regularly (usually in the mornings) find it impossible to get onto Mudcat by the front door. Later in the day I almost always can come in the front door. I can find the back door, which would be okay, I guess, except that it won't recognize me for the purpose of attaching my name to posts, and I can't use the search facility from the back door. Though I haven't tested it, I assume I can't do PMs from the back door.

Outside of Mudcat, I have no other negative symptoms that might relate to funwebproducts. I periodically (almost daily) run Ad-Aware and Spybot D&D and Registry Mechanic, as well as Norton AV, and get a clean bill of health from each and all of them.

I am forced to conclude that the Mudcat problems are NOT due to funwebproducts, at least in my case.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:24 PM

FWIW - I always exit the pop-up by never clicking the offered buttons. The X is fairly safe but Alt F4 and the right click on the systray should be safe. It has stood me in good stead so far. But then I am wary of sites and use the Library (free) for more speculative surfing. Their systems load completely clean and all apps are screwed down tight.

Ad-aware findsof most but not all of the Trojans. The code may be buried in more than one innocent file that gets used by other apps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 03:53 PM

As far as I'm concerned, the most useful item to contol nuisances, after my anti-virus, is The Proxomitron. I use all the programs mentioned above, but I don't have to do nearly as many scans or fixes, because Proxo stops a lot of stuff before it gets to me. It is a 'proxy'...meaning I have told my browser to let Proxomitron look at everything first, and apply rules I decide on....so I often get a web page with [ad]
in various places, because I told Proxo not to show me certain types of ads...(even the [ad]
is optional....It can just delete them, but I like the reminder)

Here is a screenshot of maybe half of the built-in filters it can apply....note in the middle of the list ----pop-ups

http://home.comcast.net/~somethingextree/ProxoFilters.jpg
In my browser I have the defaults set to allow pop-ups, but in Proxo, I have it set to deny them...and if I arrive at a page where I want the popups or banners or advertising..etc...it is VERY quick to reach up and bypass Proxo for a moment, rather than going in and changing all my browser preferences.
The most common exception is where a page displays part of its content as a paste from another site...(to save space, get 'credits'...whatever)...Proxo is set to deny that trick unless I specifically allow it.

I sometimes am surprised how many of the problems I read about others having are avoided because it works so well...

try it...there are lot of places that offer help and special sets of filters (they are sort of javascript instructions, and hard to write unless you are eddicated in that stuff)


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 03:59 PM

Cute trick, Nick. I am in the middle of something right now or I'd poke around and see what you did. More later---


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Subject: RE: BS: Can this be fixed without a technician?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 04:37 PM

one of Nick's tricks is a site that is NOT connected to Google, but sends your search thru it without the baggage.


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