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BS: Censorship on Mudcat

GUEST,The Shambles 29 Mar 05 - 05:54 PM
Peace 29 Mar 05 - 05:14 PM
katlaughing 29 Mar 05 - 05:11 PM
Peace 29 Mar 05 - 04:43 PM
GUEST,MMario 29 Mar 05 - 04:36 PM
wysiwyg 29 Mar 05 - 04:13 PM
catspaw49 29 Mar 05 - 03:56 PM
Peace 29 Mar 05 - 02:03 PM
GUEST,Giok 29 Mar 05 - 08:15 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 29 Mar 05 - 07:56 AM
GUEST,The Shambles 29 Mar 05 - 07:23 AM
GUEST,bobad 28 Mar 05 - 09:27 PM
GUEST,Ebbie 28 Mar 05 - 08:14 PM
GUEST 28 Mar 05 - 05:17 PM
GUEST,jOhn from Hull 28 Mar 05 - 05:16 PM
Joe Offer 27 Mar 05 - 10:22 PM
Ebbie 27 Mar 05 - 06:06 PM
catspaw49 27 Mar 05 - 05:41 PM
harpgirl 27 Mar 05 - 05:35 PM
catspaw49 27 Mar 05 - 05:25 PM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 27 Mar 05 - 05:09 PM
Joe Offer 27 Mar 05 - 04:54 PM
harpgirl 27 Mar 05 - 04:09 PM
John MacKenzie 27 Mar 05 - 03:25 PM
catspaw49 27 Mar 05 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,Ed Skenieuwezscheivevitz 27 Mar 05 - 02:42 PM
Once Famous 27 Mar 05 - 02:11 PM
katlaughing 27 Mar 05 - 02:07 PM
The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 01:53 PM
catspaw49 27 Mar 05 - 01:37 PM
The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 01:10 PM
catspaw49 27 Mar 05 - 12:41 PM
GUEST,Jon 27 Mar 05 - 12:07 PM
Jeri 27 Mar 05 - 12:02 PM
The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 11:06 AM
The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 11:03 AM
catspaw49 27 Mar 05 - 10:51 AM
wysiwyg 27 Mar 05 - 08:23 AM
Big Mick 27 Mar 05 - 07:43 AM
GUEST,Jon 27 Mar 05 - 07:34 AM
The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 07:32 AM
The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 07:04 AM
The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 06:06 AM
GUEST,Jon 27 Mar 05 - 03:32 AM
The Shambles 27 Mar 05 - 02:40 AM
Ebbie 26 Mar 05 - 11:37 PM
Little Hawk 26 Mar 05 - 11:07 PM
wysiwyg 26 Mar 05 - 11:00 PM
wysiwyg 26 Mar 05 - 10:58 PM
Little Hawk 26 Mar 05 - 09:57 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 05:54 PM

Have you written directly to Max via PM/e-mail within the past 2 weeks regarding your concerns or linked him to this thread? If so, what response have you received?

I doubt that you address and judge Max in the manner you do to me. Or discuss private exchanges publicly like you do with me. Call him names and question his sanity and invite others to follow your example - so if you make your demand to him - he may answer you.

As you make no public apology for any of your insulting comments in posts here - I see no reason why I should answer any public demand coming from you. So I won't - as it is none of your business.

Max is not the problem and does not need to be bothered for the solution - we all are the problem and we all have always had the solution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 05:14 PM

"What I am sure Susan meant was from a long hard day at work in the 3D world."

Well, as long as YOU are sure what she meant, then all is just fine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 05:11 PM

That's a little facetious, brucie, imo. What I am sure Susan meant was from a long hard day at work in the 3D world. Also, remember that Max is the Primo Volunteer of us all, with Pene Azul right beside him. Besides that Susan is one of the first who has MADE Mudcat real in the 3D world, too, with guesting various 'catters, etc.

Shambles, it would be a lot better if you'd quit making sweeping generalisations about some perceived kind of amorphous persecutive moderating which you claim is so rampant and the "norm" on Mudcat. Joeclones are NOT the great and powerful OZ you seem to think we are.

Frankly, I am not sure why I am even try to reason with you; it's been proven so many times, over and over, that it does not good. Hope you had a happy birthday.

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 04:43 PM

"I have this image of Max coming home from a long, hard day in the Real World"

The implication of the above statement is that Mudcat is NOT part of the real world. That is a mistake in either perception or logic, IMO.

We can argue that TV is not part of the real world, but we all know better. The internet is as real as are many other technologies that exist today. No more, no less. Calling a shhep a dog will not make it bark; but calling the internet interactions of real people 'not part of the real world' doesn't fly right with me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 04:36 PM

sometimes appears that folk now are being encouraged to think that what our forum is now only about - is for posting personal judgements of the worth of other posters and their right to post.

Huh? I must have missed That! Where is/are the post(s) that can be interpreted in that way?


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 04:13 PM

I have this image of Max coming home from a long, hard day in the Real World, and opening any one of a number of BS threads, maybe even this one, and wondering, "Shit, did I shave my legs for THIS?"

How many times can a man be motivated to re-tinker the old hardware, cut family time short, and rethink the design-- for the kind of crap that is now the daily fare at Mudcat? And people think censorship is the issue-- it ain't. Puerility, now there's a problem.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 03:56 PM

Spaw's Spurious Spinnin' Volunteer Mudcat Posse...........Sounds like a song title. Anyway, while the posse is feedin' their horses and tossin' back a few smart-ass remarks, let me try again.

Shambles says....."I do re(s)pond to most posts made on the subject."

Okay then, let's keep this simple and straightforward. The subject here is censorship at "Max's Mudcat Forum." It's the thread title. I think it is fair to say that your very well established position is that there is too much to begin with and the system in place, along with those involved, is not to your liking and you believe it to be detrimental to the forum. I think we do agree that although it is often referred to by all of us to be "our" forum, the owner and final arbiter/decision maker here is Max. So now, two simple questions which are not rhetorical and are on the subject.....questions, in other words, of the type to which you say you respond.

Have you written directly to Max via PM/e-mail within the past 2 weeks regarding your concerns or linked him to this thread? If so, what response have you received?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 02:03 PM

"It's that Polish food.It'll do it everytime."

Why does Joe polish his food?


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Giok
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 08:15 AM

'Judge not, lest that ye be judged' Cuts two ways Roger!
                         then there's
'If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen'
                         and of course the immortal
'When you are in a hole stop digging'

You've had support and encouragement, more than I think you deserve, from several people on this thread. I think you should rest on your laurels, as in the same way as 'You can't fool all of the people all of the time', you also can't persuade everybody to agree with your point of view, all of the time.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 07:56 AM

Glad you overcome the problems Shambles. And I am well aware of quite a few who have similar problems......and I make no fun of them....nor do I make fun of you. I'm well aware also that a number of us have some mental health problems actually diagnosed.

You do not seem to be aware that you never 'overcome' these problems. Folk are constantly struggling with them and whatever progress they may make in tackling them and whatever confidence they may have slowly gained - can be destroyed by a single casual remark, action or needless personal judgement made of their abilities.

Over a long period - Max's Mudcat Forum has been very helpful to me in building up the confidence to express myself in writing. I would like to see it remain a place where others would also feel safe and free to also be able to build-up their confidence and tackle what ever difficulties they may have. Without being judged.

If sometimes appears that folk now are being encouraged to think that what our forum is now only about - is for posting personal judgements of the worth of other posters and their right to post.

The idea that there are good posters and bad posters is not a judgement made publicly by Max - it is a matter only of personal taste. There are only good posts - (the ones that you find interesting to read and may respond to) and not so good posts (the ones that don't interest you and you will not respond to).

As it is possible for posts from the same poster to fall into both catagories - the idea that you should be encouraged to judge any poster to be a good poster or a bad poster is clearly nonsense and counter-productive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 07:23 AM

None of this has anything to do with it. I am just trying to understand what the problem is with your failure to acknowledge what is being said.   I think perhaps the answer is quite simple....You refuse to do so.

I do repond to most posts made on the subject. I remain open to persuasion and demonstration that the facts are not as I state.

I do refuse to respond in kind or at all to abusive personal attacks. And this thread (and others) will show that I have not chosen to respond in kind to your abusive personal attacks upon me. It will also demonstrate to you - (who unlike many others - seem to find this impossible) - how perfectly easy it is to ignore all obvious provocation.

Others can judge - but what you have posted to me are abusive personal attacks and (mistaken) personal judgements. Although not I suspect posted really for MY attention but for the benefit of the rest of your posse members and the watching crowd. You should not be too surprised if I treat these abusive personal attacks (which you and some of your fellow posse members largely encourage by setting this example) in the same way as I treat the rest......

It has rather a lot to do with the fact that when you (and the other members of your posse) post only to make your uneeded and unrequested judgements on the worth of other posters - as in this case - you will usually be wrong. As all this judgement, division and personal abusive attacks from the favoured few - is NOT the object of our public discussion forum.   

You will also inhibit other posters and risk causing real pain - in an exercise that you seem to see as re-enforcing the bonds that hold your posse members together - i.e' the exclusion and riducule of those who do not think like 'we' do.

The answer to this for you - is simple. If you do not like or accept the fact that the public are invited to have their say and agree or not - or that they may choose and are entitled not to agree with you - perhaps you and those that find this discussion and open debate a problem - can find somewhere else where you can sit and judge each other's worth and abusive each other - until your heart's content?

Many post to say many different things - what I choose to respond to - and in what fashion remains a matter for me. As what you or any other poster may post to say is a matter for you. And that really is the answer to your problem. If don't like my view - fine. No one is forcing you to ever open this thread (or any thread) - or to discuss this subject ever again.   

My view is simple and is evidenced - that the 'spin' of what censorship here is being defended by - is not the reality of what is actually happening. Whether there is anything 'sinister' in this - is a matter for you to judge. But as this censorship it is not open, fair or have any clear objective - the motives of it will always be all open to question - until it is open, fair and has a clear objective.

The one certainty is that - whatever other damage has been done and is being done to our forum - all this retrospective editing and imposed judgement has not prevented abusive personal attacks from being mounted. Especially when the example is set by our volunteers indulging themselves in mounting these, inciting others to do so and encouraging the idea that there is something amusing in this. And still attempting to maintain some moral high-ground.

I have no real idea why this thread on this subject is thought by some to be any worse than one with 10,000 post saying nothing - or any on the many other strange subjects that threads are about - but if YOU don't POST to any thread - It will die (eventually).

Any thread that YOU don't decide to open IS EFFECTIVLY ClOSED...........


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,bobad
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 09:27 PM

Joe

It's that Polish food.It'll do it everytime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 08:14 PM

jOhnNy, don't be a one-noter, OK?


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 05:17 PM

ps= you are big moany person, and never make any good tghreads any more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,jOhn from Hull
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 05:16 PM

Mr Shambles- Fuvkingf shut up, most pepople is fed up of seeiing you rubbish.john


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 10:22 PM

Joe's friends used to call him "Skinny." I haven't been called skinny in ten years, since I gave up smoking and gained weight....
But thanks, anyhow, Ebbie.
-Joe Offer, 190 pounds or so-

(I was 145)


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 06:06 PM

Yes, Joe Offer, he is.   His friends call him 'Skinny'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 05:41 PM

awwwwww........................geee whizz....................**blush**............


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: harpgirl
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 05:35 PM

Since we are on the subject, who are the cloneheads exactly at this moment in time? What have each of you deleted, changed, modified, or rewritten in the last week? Why? or why not?

I just love catspaw.

[so do I ----skinny clone
(I have not changed or deleted anything in 2 weeks, and then it was just editing spelling)
]

[I don't know .... I guess he is all right, given the fact that he is a layabout.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 05:25 PM

Harpy.......If I were a Clonehead, I would have to say that I haven't changed a thing in the past three weeks or more. However I would be thinking of adding "I just love Catspaw" to your above post. Whaddaya' think?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 05:09 PM

Ed, you are the guy that needs his head examined. I'd get right on it. I should not have pulled the gun on you, but you should not have insulted chimps after givin' me a headache for a solid hour and a half with all your crazy paranoid political stuff. You are seriously out of touch, man. You need help.

No, I am not Martin Gibson. I ain't had the pleasure to meet him, but I figure I will one of these days. I don't work for the friggin' New World Order and I doubt that Martin does either, but who can say? I think you oughta learn to control your mouth, mister.

I listened to your "Day of the Dolphins" CD. Frankly, it's not good. Sorry to tell you that, but it's not. Not to me anyway. I figure it could be useful though, to break down hardened criminals and wring confessions out of them by repeated playings. It would be cruel and unusual punishment, but it wouldn't do permanent harm, so I'm for it.

I got your hat here. The one that says "Folk You!". I will send it if you provide a mailing address.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 04:54 PM

Ed Skenieuwezscheivevitz, are you Polish?
We had a great Polish Easter, Borscht with kielbasa, and slejie (picled herring) - Polish cheesecake for dessert, all made by my Polish wife and mother-in-law.
Happy Easter!
-Joe Offer-

450


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: harpgirl
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 04:09 PM

Since we are on the subject, who are the cloneheads exactly at this moment in time? What have each of you deleted, changed, modified, or rewritten in the last week? Why? or why not?


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 03:25 PM

Still droning on I see Roger!
I think it was Jerome K Jerome who said, "His huff arrived, and he went off in it" Remind you guys of anyone?
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 03:03 PM

Glad you overcome the problems Shambles. And I am well aware of quite a few who have similar problems......and I make no fun of them....nor do I make fun of you. I'm well aware also that a number of us have some mental health problems actually diagnosed. None of this has anything to do with it. I am just trying to understand what the problem is with your failure to acknowledge what is being said.   I think perhaps the answer is quite simple....You refuse to do so.

So I guess rather than treat you as a member here who is stating an opinion, your long diatribes in the face of all factual info given you seems instead that you are just yet another troll. Is that it? You're a weird kind of troll perhaps.

So let's see............

You pose the same questions over and over and refuse to accept any answer given to you that does not conform to your vision.

You refuse to answer questions in a straightforward manner butinstead twist the verbage to suit your needs.

You don't acknowledge that Max is the final arbiter here and refuse to take your problems to him (in PM form if you like it so well). You even seemingly refuse to accept an answer from Max if he gives you one (and that's a mental health issue).

Under all of these conditions, why not just close this thread? Or maybe as you would obviously prefer, we all agree to give it a break?   I mean really, what the hell else can be said at this point? Is there anything you haven't stated and asked repeatedly? All of those things that I can see have been answered, but without answers you accept.....so there's no point in asking again now is there?

Anything new? If not, let this die.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Ed Skenieuwezscheivevitz
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 02:42 PM

Hi. I am a very liberal and committed folkie, a man of the people, and I take serious umbrage at the rude and disgusting comments emanating from Martin Gibson. He is a far right fanatical cyber-thug and should be subjected to incarceration and deep psychoanalysis ASAP. I suspect that Martin Gibson is a plant by the CIA or worse yet is an agent for the Skull & Bones and the New World Order, his mission to spread chaos and disorder in liberal ranks and usher in a new era of totalitarian control by the war-mongering illuminati and the Bushites who are delivering our public school systems over to fascism and destroying the Constitution.

Just a short time ago I was in Chicago, reputedly Martin's hometown, and happened to meet a certain individual in a bar and get into a lengthy conversation. This individual was a chimpanzee, dressed in a suit. He was reasonably articulate, and seemed to be interested in what I had to say about music, society, politics, and other germaine subjects of that sort.

Little did I realize he was a psychotic agent of the New World Order. After listening to me innocently enough for at least an hour, he suddenly went berserk, whipped out a pistol, and threatened to blow me away on the spot. I fled the bar. You cannot reason with people who have lost the ability to engage in reasonable dialogue.

Now, here's the rub. I strongly suspect that the chimpanzee in question was the very same person who passes himself off here AS Martin Gibson. That's right. Either that, or he and Martin are working together.

Consider the evidence in common. Martin is from Chicago. I met the chimp in Chicago. Martin swears. So did the chimp. Martin is combative and short-tempered. So was the chimp.

I intend to ferret out the truth about this matter if it takes me the next 5 years, and I am willing to sift through every one of Martin's posts painstakingly and record them all in an extensive database program in order to prove once and for all that Martin Gibson is a right-wing agent bent on destroying liberalism in American. And he's probably a chimp too.

As for Shambles, well, I have read and reread the postings by you on this thread, sir, and I must admit that they are quite impressive, but the point is so subtle that it is still somehow eluding me. This is unusual. I have a mathematically exact mind that can normally graps any degree of arcane complexity, due to a 40-year career in folk music, and yet I cannot fully grasp what you are on about. You are either a genius or a complete idiot. My plan at this point is to recover and read ALL your postings from the past five years, and run them through my database analyzer. When I have reached a definitive conclusion as to their exact meaning, I will get right back to you. Meanwhile, do carry on. You are clearly a man with a mission.

Amd don't forget to buy my new album:

"Day of the Dolphins"


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 02:11 PM

Wrong Big Mick and idiot Guest.

I don't care about power. Except if there's 110v coming out of the socket.

I think it's the other way around. Big Mick and his ILK (love that word and how it's always used here) are the one's worried about power because the old guard who is usually pretty unfriendly with bad attitude toward outsiders and ones who don't subscribe to their "Hi, I'm a liberal, phony folkie" philosophy is kind of showing some bad cracks and has plenty others thinking.

Keep at it Shambles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 02:07 PM

Fer keyriced's sakes, Shambs, I canNOT believe we were born on the exact same day and year. How about, as a b-day present to ourselves, you turn over a new leaf and give it a rest?!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:53 PM

Are you telling me you suffer from some problem like dyslexia or bad spelling?

If it matters - and I really have spell it out to you publicly - YES.

Whatever I achieve or fail to achieve at in writing prose, poetry or song - comes only after considerable trouble and great assistance from a spell-checker. I am sure that many others also struggle in this fashion and perhaps should be encouraged to express themselves as best they can - rather than feel that they have to conform to your standards?

I do not - fortunately suffer from any diagnosed mental health condition. It may be as well for you to to consider that there may well be posters who do....


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:37 PM

...........anobeithiol...........oy...........simply amazing.......okay...lessee here......

ROGER SAYS:There was a time when dislexia, spelling, grammar and other problems that posters may suffer with - were treated with respect on our forum and not made the subject of ridicule. A time when what someone was trying to say was respected and considered more important that the form that it appeared in.

Are you telling me you suffer from some problem like dyslexia or bad spelling? Roger your lyrics and poetry are simply too well done and beautiful to believe that. No, this is in fact the point of all of this----NO ONE CAN MAKE OUT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY MOST OF THE TIME BECAUSE YOU CONVOLUTE WORDS TO FIT SOME OTHER PERSONAL VISION OR IDEA. YOU DO NOT RESPOND TO WHAT IS SAID BUT RESPOND INSTEAD TO SOME OTHER INTERPRETATION THAT ONLY YOU CAN SEE.

The fact that you are so articulate in your poetry makes many of us wonder why and how you can be so obtuse otherwise. It makes no sense and frankly makes me concerned for your mental health. You have been on this mission of yours for over 6 years now and refuse to see the reality of the situation. Your mind seems to be so consumed with this that you cannot read the "what is" but rather choose to read your own interpretation and you "communicate" it back in such a way that it is almost impossible to understand.

Forget it.....I'll just go back to the BB's and the bear........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 01:10 PM

There was a time when dislexia, spelling, grammar and other problems that posters may suffer with - were treated with respect on our forum and not made the subject of ridicule. A time when what someone was trying to say was respected and considered more important that the form that it appeared in.

Also there was a time when personal conversations - of little or no general interest - were thought to be best undertaken via PMs. If these personal conversations were about another poster - it was once thought better and polite - not to conduct it publicly.

There was a time when what passed between members via PM were not thought to be for public knowledge. If someone wishes to say something to me that perhaps may be of little general interest - I would be more than willing to do this via PMs and to respect the convention of privacy that is customary in this method of communication.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 12:41 PM

Thanks Jon!! A hug to the dear Pip from me!!!

Jeri........I have long felt there is a language called Shambalese. I first became aware of it back in '99 when I failed to understand what Roger was talking about. Being of a lesser intelligence myself, I enquired of him what it was he was trying to say because as I read it, it made no sense and I had some issues with him. I sent him a PM to get that clarification and received back THREE PM's, all of them 3 or more pages in length. After several hours of sifting through them repeatedly and trying to ascertain if they were in fact English or some other language, I gave up and went back to trying to get the little BB's in the eyes of the bear.

Today, you, Jeri, have given me hope! You seem to have been able to translate the Shambalese into English and even better, you seem to speak it fluently YOURSELF! How much work, study, and sheer perseverance this must have taken on your part I cannot imagine. When I read, "Should not those of us who are NOT us be enouraged to not to shoot the rest of us, who are?" I mean, who really IS 'we'? Am I not we, as you are, are you not, we, and are we not all 'we' together?", I knew you were the first person to successfully translate and use Shambalese as well as it's originator. Do you have a book and CD available? Do you take MasterCard?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 12:07 PM

Spaw, Pip doesn't speak Welsh but she picked this word up from one of her Welsh speaking friends and likes it. Try:

ANNA-BAY-TH-E-OL


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 12:02 PM

Spaw you might like this cartoon. So might anyone else who doesn't mind some effing language and/or whose naughty-word protection software at work won't have cow about it.

As far as parsing postings, I do believe the<just plain wrong stuff is the bait. Stuff that is THAT<messed up, people feel compelled to put right. Whether it's intentional or he does it because he's not that good at communicating is hard to determine. He<completely<missed the point of WYS's question. Was it on purpose or not? Shambs, the "shoot the messenger" saying has to do with messengers who deliver someone else's<words. One wonders not only whose message you're delivering, but who you're delivering it to.

Maybe more important than "who is 'we'?" is "who is NOT 'we'?" I mean it adds another 'not' into the equation, and you seem to like negative words, what with sentences that read like "Should we not be encourged to not ever shoot the messager? No? Nonaynevernomore?" I mean, it would now be "Should not those of us who are NOT us be enouraged to not to shoot the rest of us, who are?" I mean, who really IS 'we'? Am I not we, as you are, are you not, we, and are we not all 'we' together? And if it's true that it's 'us' asking the questions, and 'us' providing the answers, are we not talking to ourselves?

I am the Walrus, and I have approved this message.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:06 AM

Dealing with flamers and trolls


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:03 AM

When I use the word 'we' - I always mean every single last one of 'us' contributors to our forum - including the 'great and all-powerful' Max....

Susan - who knows? I make no claims but the same one who sends you to 'us' may even send me and everyone else with the very same message. That we can stop judging each other's worth here and everywhere else - for they are the one who will do the judging - when the time comes. They are also said to work in mysterious ways.

To quote the great Dave Allen: 'May your God go with you'. LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 10:51 AM

Yeah, iut appears that Easter has really rejuvenated the boy doesn't it? But Pip has it right and if I knew how to pronounce that word, I'd be using it all the time!

I'd be happy to parse your postings all to hell and break down each thing, like your incorrect usage of the word volunteer or the fact that if you cannot see that your 2 letter answer is wrong and Jon's 3 letter answer is right, or a hundred other things........but there is no point.

You need to address all your problems to Max. Everyone here has answered you repeatedly and you say they are wrong or it is spin because it doesn't fit your vision. Time to question your vision Dude! And the only ones who can help you there are yourself and Max.

'Course questioning your own vision is hard and requires perspective and honesty......not everyone seems able to do it. Like this one guy I know who has a vision that is seriously impaired by the fact that his head is so far up his ass, his tonsils are tickling his forehead.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 08:23 AM

Again I would ask, Shambles-- when you use the word "we"-- who is the "we" who sends you as messenger?

And who is "we" on any given day and hour?

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 07:43 AM

Yep, Jon. There is no help available to the fool who will not be helped.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 07:34 AM

At this point, Pip would say "anobeithiol"

Welsh adj: despairing, hopeless, desperate, forlorn


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 07:32 AM

Thanks for making me laugh out loud.

The problem here Mick is that so many of do care so much for this place and also know from history that getting 100% compliance to shunning is about impossible here.

The only things that we know for sure are impossible - are the things we make no attempt at.

If we are talking about not responding in kind or at all to obvious provocation - whatever percentage level that could be achieved (by posters always setting this example) would always be better that doing nothing and stating that making any attempt is futile.

It would also help and pay a big compliment to the many posters who do manage to easily do what you appear to find impossible. Unless of course for some reason you do not really wish to even make the attempt - but wish to continue to indulge in mounting personal attacks and respond in kind to them and to set this example?

So we long for the "benevolent dictator" to right the problem.

If we do - we will be waiting a long time. But of course - stating this cop-out always saves the resonsibility of actually doing anything positive yourself.

What is important to understand, at least to me, is that on the net fairness is not a requirememnt.

is this not a double-standard - as you would appear to think that being fair to our volunteers - is a requirement? This of course works both ways. As in any form of respectable policing anywhere - being open, fair and having a clear objective is always a requirment - except perhaps in police state......


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 07:04 AM

Shambles, a message is (or can be) a personal Hyde Park for anybody who wants to express an opinion. But just like in Hyde Park, you control only your own message - you don't control the entire park.

-Joe Offer-


Perhaps it may slowly dawn on those that do wish it - that no one else IS wanting to take control of the whole park. It would appear that whoever it is that wishes to control every aspect of the whole park and entry to it - and is under the impression that they now do control it – is not even content with this and now does not wish posters to even control their own messages.

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=78706

You will see that the thread title that I had chosen for my music related (parody) thread was changed without my knowledge and against my wishes. That I was then given the ultimatum of leaving the thread with the imposed title change or of having it changed back and this obvious attempt at a thread song – being sent to the BS (non –music) section. This was contained in a (brown) editing comment – where the personal opinion was expressed by Joe Offer - that all Song Challenge threads should be demoted to the BS non-music section…….

I will leave you judge what is happening here and where it is written that as a matter of routine that volunteers can threaten to send threads that are clearly music related – to the non-music section and why?

The view that Song Challenges (containing mainly original material) may not be worthy of a place on the music related section is perhaps a valid opinion. It is perhaps not the sort of opinion to express in an editing comment - if the volunteer expects their imposed editing judgement to ever be generally accepted as being objective. Such actions leave little room for defence - if or when accused of unfair treatment or of abusing their position.

Perhaps in future (and if these editing comments continue to take place) - and in order to prevent confusion - no personal opinions should appear in editing comments and these should be kept objective and factual?


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 06:06 AM

The answer has two letters not three.

Us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 03:32 AM

Shambles. One portion of my post you did not quote was Joe Offer saying.

"Max gave a few of us "edit" buttons and told us to use them with good judgment."

Does that not tell you anything? Let's see if we can try a couple of questions based on Joe's statement. I'll give you a clue. The answers only need one 3 letter word.

1. Who created the situation where some members have more power than others that you complain about so often (something I have no objection to, on the contary I think a few people are needed to help out)?

2. If rather than using good judgment, they are abusing their privelage, who do you think you should inform?


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 02:40 AM

Subject: RE: Censor Mudcat--Y or N?(NM)(not music thread)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jul 99 - 02:22 PM

Drop it, Shambles. Apparently, some sort of misdirected censorship did happen once, and the perpetrator was aparently a JoeClone® in training. It happened one time, and probably won't happen again. OK?
-Joe Offer-


But it did happen again. So I didn't drop it. For it happened again and again it still does as it did – even in this thread. So do the same excuses given and so do the personal attacks that the whole editing edifice is supposed to be protecting us all from and which many good folk support because they believe the 'spin'.

The reality – as I have demonstrated – is somewhat different – the people mainly affected by current censorship – are ordinary posters. My circumstances have never been the issue for me but my postings are what I know most about. The 'spin' will tell you that I have never been the victim of any censorship here (by rather narrowly defining this as by terms such as 'tidying-up'). I do speak from the rather unique position of a thread originator – whose thread has been closed by Joe Offer TWICE……..Unfair treatment and over-zealous abuse of this position – I will leave it for you to decide

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=12450&messages=78

The explanation for this was not because the thread contained personal attacks on me or anyone – as it was folk saying nice things. But this was considered serious enough to cause this thread to be closed twice!

Can closed threads be re-opened


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 11:37 PM

I regret my own recent actions- mind you, I don't regret the things I said to the person to whom I said them- but I regret not leaving the problem to Mudcat, especially to Joe Offer. You da guys that have to deal with da problem- and I am capable of leaving it in your hands. I'll try to do so from now on.

Ebbiewhoispenitent


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 11:07 PM

Oh! Nasty! Imagine the misery in which the banished of Mudcat would wallow there in the TOBS section, like prisoners in some foul dungeon, longing for a scrap of bread or a beam of sunlight...

No point limiting the characters per post, though. Let 'em go on and on indefinitely, I say. Excessively long posts by obsessive people would be part of the misery. Allow NO paragraph breaks! Have jOhn from Hull design a subroutine to revamp ALL the spelling so that it looks like his.

Another thing that could be done for the regular BS section would be an automatic subroutine that alters all deeply offensive words into harmless words such as "tiddly", "ronson", and "macaroon".


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 11:00 PM

PS, Hell is where to put the POP-UPs, and banner ads, and all that CRAP! People wanna post that shit, let them pay good money (via revenues generated) and fund the rest of Mud-damn-Cat! :~)

It's always simple to harness an addiction. Make it pay!

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 10:58 PM

No, put TOBS on the server that only runs some of the time-- the one for which there is not even a back door entry. Give it a separate URL altogether, and no link from here to there. You'd have to Google to find it. The color scheme also-- have to be totally offensive to the eye, like blinking black backgrounds, small yellow type for thread names and posts, etc. Require registration to post there, but make every post appear as being from a nameless Guest. Or just assign random numbers-- "Banished #00002," etc. Or use the IP number. :~)

No PM function.

Eliminate the blickifier there, and all other Mudcat conveniences too. Limit the characters per post, too, to something short and pithy. Install programming that would make a hash out of anything composed in a WP and then pasted as small bits. But no censoring, of any sort whatsoever.

The fix Mudcat Normal Zone so that links to the Hell site cannot be made or posted.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Censorship on Mudcat
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 09:57 PM

What you are describing, Spaw (that you get away with more than some do on that forum) is the reality in any group of people who have gotten to know each other over a period of time. Old friends get more benefit of the doubt than strangers do. Makes perfect sense to me.


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Mudcat time: 4 June 1:53 PM EDT

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