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BS: NON-Partisan political comments

beardedbruce 15 Mar 05 - 10:11 PM
Bobert 15 Mar 05 - 10:24 PM
GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River 15 Mar 05 - 10:36 PM
Bunnahabhain 15 Mar 05 - 10:37 PM
Bill D 15 Mar 05 - 10:39 PM
Bunnahabhain 15 Mar 05 - 10:45 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Mar 05 - 07:22 PM
beardedbruce 18 Mar 05 - 09:21 PM
Frankham 19 Mar 05 - 01:08 PM
Frankham 19 Mar 05 - 01:11 PM
beardedbruce 21 Mar 05 - 06:24 AM
beardedbruce 29 Mar 05 - 08:09 PM
beardedbruce 09 Apr 05 - 12:35 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 09 Apr 05 - 12:49 AM
Bunnahabhain 14 Apr 05 - 08:25 PM
beardedbruce 26 Apr 05 - 03:32 PM
beardedbruce 01 May 05 - 06:17 PM
beardedbruce 01 May 05 - 06:23 PM
beardedbruce 01 May 05 - 06:30 PM
beardedbruce 01 May 05 - 06:32 PM
Peace 01 May 05 - 06:43 PM
beardedbruce 04 May 05 - 07:04 PM
beardedbruce 04 May 05 - 10:42 PM
beardedbruce 23 May 05 - 07:15 PM
beardedbruce 27 May 05 - 11:12 PM
beardedbruce 04 Jun 05 - 01:04 AM
beardedbruce 21 Jun 05 - 06:38 PM
beardedbruce 24 Jun 05 - 11:33 PM
beardedbruce 25 Jun 05 - 03:08 AM
beardedbruce 26 Jun 05 - 10:11 PM
beardedbruce 11 Jul 05 - 02:48 PM
beardedbruce 18 Jul 05 - 05:58 PM
GUEST 18 Jul 05 - 08:35 PM
beardedbruce 20 Jul 05 - 05:25 PM
beardedbruce 29 Jul 05 - 06:20 PM
beardedbruce 03 Aug 05 - 02:41 PM
beardedbruce 10 Aug 05 - 03:28 PM
beardedbruce 11 Aug 05 - 02:59 PM
Amos 11 Aug 05 - 09:53 PM
beardedbruce 12 Aug 05 - 10:04 PM
beardedbruce 15 Aug 05 - 07:33 PM
beardedbruce 24 Aug 05 - 02:54 PM
beardedbruce 06 Sep 05 - 01:47 PM
beardedbruce 09 Sep 05 - 07:43 AM
beardedbruce 09 Sep 05 - 02:15 PM
Little Hawk 09 Sep 05 - 02:42 PM
freda underhill 09 Sep 05 - 02:58 PM
Little Hawk 09 Sep 05 - 03:01 PM
beardedbruce 13 Sep 05 - 01:32 PM
beardedbruce 03 Oct 05 - 02:56 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 10:11 PM

Discussions can be had on very contentious issues, but everybody has to be careful, and willing to listen, or they will get nasty and pointless.

Bunnahbhain.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 10:24 PM

Spoken by a man with no ears....


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 10:36 PM

Bearded Bruce? Have you been told today? No? Well, I will be happy to tell you then. Flip off! You flippin' goof.

- BDiBR


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 10:37 PM

Is that a general comment, or one about me?

I know I know I disagree with some people, but that's me reaching a diffrent conclusion, not not listening, I thought.

Bunnhabhain


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 10:39 PM

honest
non-partisan
relevant

...pick any two.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 10:45 PM

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

and

...a new nation: conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

honest, relevant and non partisan, IMO.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 07:22 PM

the whole point of politics is to be partisan.

you gotta choose.

You don't have to like the choice, but they are the guys who bothered to devote their lives to attending political meetings - as a result they got into the position where you have to choose one of them.

I often wonder how many people who complain so much about the system actually join a political party and try to change things from within.

I suppose if I were a Republican party activist, I'd feel angry that Arnie has got the job he has - rather than somebody who has put the hours in. Still he won for them - so I suppose that proves he has a right to be where he is.

I wonder if he will be a President of the whole country.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 09:21 PM

see the first post here:


"but I would like to share some of the observations that I have read here, in a non-partisan way. I think that some of these may be among the great truths of the world Then again, I could be wrong..."


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Frankham
Date: 19 Mar 05 - 01:08 PM

There are two sides of the issue about open minds.

1. It's good to see the other person's point of view with objectivity.
2. An open mind is an empty one that has no convictions.

I believe in the right for people to think for themselves. What happens when you do that is often you are accused of being partisan.

I like to stick to issues. Then I like to see different sides of that issue and make up my own mind.

When it comes to Democrats and Republicans, I see demogoguery on both sides. I believe that both Parties have sold themselves out to monied corporate sponsorship and interests.

I believe that our votes were rigged in the last elections. Both Democrats and Republicans have refused to deal with this issue.
In short, our votes don't count any more.

Voting is a bi-partisan issue and unless America wakes up and sees the fraud in the election system, we, as a country, will be reduced to at best, a corrupt government and at worst, a fascist dictatorship.

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Frankham
Date: 19 Mar 05 - 01:11 PM

P.S.

Here's a bi-partisan solution. Use the Diebold and E.S.and S. machines as printers and not counters. Use the paper as ballots and have them hand-counted at the local precincts. This will eliminate Technofraud.

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 06:24 AM

refresh


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 08:09 PM

and from Amos...


Decency, courtesy, and a respect for the underlying commonalities will always make for a lively and interesting dialogue amongst those of differing ideas.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 12:35 AM

and from GUEST...


I have no problem with people speaking their piece. I am only annoyed when people try to censor others because they don't like the opinion being expressed.



A pity that so many people here do not seem to feel this way......


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Apr 05 - 12:49 AM

you lot can intellectualise and pontificate as much as you like..

but if ever you and your family and friends are at the bottom of the shit heap
with no private savings or inherited wealth to help you surface from the mire..



"I doubt very much if the extremists on BOTH sides can let this thread stay reasonable, but I would like to share some of the observations that I have read here, in a non-partisan way. I think that some of these may be among the great truths of the world Then again, I could be wrong..."


sorry.. 'non-partisan'..!!!???????



"great truths of the world " ???


ha.. ha.. lend us a tenner [££££] until i can get the wifes wedding ring
back out of the pawn shop...


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 08:25 PM

I would like to thank each and everyone who contributed. There were some great questions posed. Obviously I don't have the answers, just aspirations.

From the Curator, on the thread 'Why should Britan remain in Northern Ireland', which has been good natured, sensible discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:32 PM

A stereotype is just something people make up in their own minds, and they use it to clothe their raging fears and hatreds. Then they go around trying to dress other people up in the false clothing they made for them. (And we probably all do it at times, so it would be best to watch one's own thoughts carefully so as to weed out this nasty tendency, wouldn't it?)


from Little Hawk


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 05 - 06:17 PM

and from McGrath of Harlow


"Comments are free but facts are sacred."


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 05 - 06:23 PM

and from Jeri...


You've got people so crammed into roles and you ASSUME they'll follow your

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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 05 - 06:30 PM

You've got people so crammed into roles and you ASSUME they'll follow your


sorry about that...


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 05 - 06:32 PM

ok, third try... let me hand edit...


You've got people so crammed into roles and you ASSUME they'll follow your little script that it makes you blind and deaf to what they actually DO say. You wind up just looking stupider than your own role calls for when the person doesn't behave in the expected manner.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Peace
Date: 01 May 05 - 06:43 PM

What I am against is quotas. I am against hard quotas, quotas they basically delineate based upon whatever. However they delineate, quotas, I think, vulcanize society. So I don't know how that fits into what everybody else is saying, their relative positions, but that's my position.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 May 05 - 07:04 PM

and a true gem, from Little Hawk.


Simply approach everyone with a generous reserve of goodwill, no matter who they are, even if you don't have a clue what the heck they stand for, and even if they oppose everything you think you stand for...and take some time to give them the benefit of the doubt. You might learn something new. And if they are really trying to upset you...why give them that sort of power by getting upset? What good does it do you?

Obviously, what they are up to makes sense to them, otherwise they wouldn't do it, would they? They are you, in another skin, through another set of perceptions.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 May 05 - 10:42 PM

and from the Unitarian Jihad...

Just because you believe it's true doesn't make it true.
Just because your motives are pure doesn't mean you are not doing harm.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 May 05 - 07:15 PM

not political, but it could be...


from brucie

"You are free to think my views are stupid, idiotic, etc. That's cool with me. You are more than entitled to hold the views you have. And argue them, and restate them. That's one of the things I like about the place."


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 May 05 - 11:12 PM

and from Amos- though I am sure he does not see the humor in it...



"It is the wild generalizations of sardonic hate -- which are untruthful, adversarial and essentially without any referent by which they could be called truth -- that annoys me. "


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Jun 05 - 01:04 AM

refresh


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 06:38 PM

I seem to be seeing a number of threads here that are being criticized for presenting songs that were sung by Germans in WWII.

If we are going to require that only the songs of the winning side in a conflict are studied, perhaps we should remove a number of traditional songs from the DT, as they were sung by the losing side.

I do not have to support the sentiments of a song to be able to appreciate that it meant something to those who sang it, and possibly like the tune or structure.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jun 05 - 11:33 PM

From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad 24 Jun 05 - 11:30 PM

"Didn't Thomas Jefferson propose that ? I seem to recall that he thought it was a good idea to find a qualified person for the job of President and make them take the office. He was suspicious of anyone who would actually seek out the position.

So am I. We should all be wary of anyone who wants to be the president. "


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 03:08 AM

It seems that those who want power the most are those least suitable to wield it.

from LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 10:11 PM

When we take upon ourselves to be as vindictive as our foes, we have lost...


From bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 02:48 PM

Except that there aren't just two basic ideas pushing modern politics. Especially when you take into consideration politics in the larger, global sense. The labels are just convenient ways for people to pidgeon-hole each other so they can avoid engaging in any real, meaningful discussion, or to come up with any new solutions to problems. Labels are for lazy thinkers.


From CarolC


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 05:58 PM

If there is to be any progress made, we must look VERY honestly at exactly what seems to be happening.

BillD


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 08:35 PM

All politics is apple sauce.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 05:25 PM

all should be taking this in[regardless of what you want to belive,either way] with a bucket of salt.

jpk


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 05 - 06:20 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Aug 05 - 02:41 PM

from akenaton



Akhenaton....1350 BC.

Why seekest thou revenge, O man!
With what purpose is it that thou pursuest it, thinkest thou to pain thine adversary by it?
Know that thou thyself feelest its greatest torments.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 03:28 PM

"The truth!?? The truth!?? I can't handle the truth!!!"
                                                         —Red Green

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 02:59 PM

"You seem incapable of accepting that people disagree with you. You think that the reason people don't come over to your point of view is that they have some sort of "mindset" against it--You are wrong in that view. Reasonable and intelligent people can differ on things and usually do--the fact that you don't understand that makes it look like you are not a reasonable or intelligent person-- "


from M Ted


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 09:53 PM

Excerpted from Greater Democracy:

Citizens are NOT consumers of Democracy. The FCC's last two chairmen
have referred to we the people as being mere one dimensional
consumers. For a recent example, see David Isenberg's comments on FCC
Chairman Martin's new The Four Internet Freedoms.

The essential and fundamental objection to the Martin's suggestion
that we are not citizens, but only mere consumers, is that it is
totally anti-democratic and contrary to the spirit of the America's
founding principles.

Democracy is a process of continuous creation by citizens practicing
self government. It is not a product from a 3rd party to be consumed.
Thus, to relegate citizens to the status of simple consumers, is to
attack the very foundation of our experiment in democracy. Democracy
can only be kept alive if we citizens are engaged daily in its
production.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 10:04 PM

The Basic Rubbish of Stupidity
From: freda underhill - PM
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 09:47 PM

.. Things like


* labelling people if they say something that doesn't fit your world view (eg, "left"or "right", "liberal" or "conservative")

* assuming people to have a pre packaged view within a particular set of dogma that covers a response to every issue

* declaring others are "wrong" and you are "right"; and spending an obsessive amount of time proving your "rightness",


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 05 - 07:33 PM

from Amos:


"...He has exercised his God-given right to have an opinion and to voice it. In that respect he is no disgrace to anyone. THe merit of his conclusions may be in question, but there is no disgrace in having opinions as such.

I feel his reasoning has flaws in it, and he feels the same way about mine, but how can you dare try to embarrass him into not communicating?"


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Aug 05 - 02:54 PM

and from KateG

"But please, let's not demonize liberals, or conservatives for that matter. ALL solutions have unintended consequences, and one of the most valuable contributions of the "loyal opposition" is to help bring them to light before it is too late."


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 01:47 PM

from Don Firth:

"Actually, ignorance is not the problem. We're all ignorant of something. The problem is stupidity. Stupidity is when a person becomes aware that he or she is ignorant of something and refuses to to repair the omission in their knowledge, often because it might conflict with something they want to cling to. Or knowing that they are ignorant, but going ahead and acting anyway. "


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 07:43 AM

"However, when people follow blindly after only half the story, they are little better than the folks they listen to who gave only half the story."


from Peace


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:15 PM

From LH

"To denigrate anyone merely on the basis of them being a "liberal" or a "conservative" is downright stupid. It's a knee-jerk reaction, based on some painful memory one is carrying in one's emotional body, but not on the powers of reason. There are good people and not so good people in either camp...always have been, always will be. There are people who don't necessarily belong exclusively TO either camp. You don't determine people's worth by the color of the uniform they are wearing or by the one-word hate label you made up for them in your mind...you get to know them as individuals, because every individual is unique.

Unless, of course, you are a fanatic. Then only the hate label matters, right?

This removes the responsibility for actual thought or observation on the part of said fanatic, and also allows him/her to kill others guiltlessly. That's why young soldiers are trained to hate "the enemy" (someone who is probably just like themselves in nearly every way that truly matters).

Dictators and rogue presidents do NOT want you to know these things. If you did, you wouldn't be so willing to go out and kill people for them.

I am proud and happy to be a Leftist...but...I am not supportive of other Leftists when they choose to routinely demonize everyone who does not share their particular political viewpoint. In so doing, they will make the World worse, not better. There are destructive, vicious forces on both the Left and the Right. Always have been, probably always will be. Stalin was on the left. So too the NKVD. The Chinese bigwigs who slaughtered people at Tiananmen Square were on the left. Pol Pot was on the Left. They all equate to Hitler in my mind...and he was on the Right.

Righteousness is not guaranteed by your outer political label! You can belong to any political label whatsoever, and still be a noble person who helps humanity...or a totally destructive individual who does just the opposite. "


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:42 PM

Oh. That's why this thread is going again. I wondered...

Going through it now, I am stunned by the amount of my life that I have squandered typing posts on this forum! When I finally depart this vale of tears, the Angels will say...

"Sad! He coulda done so much. He coulda been a contendah! But no, he spent all his time talking on an Internet forum. Sad!"

If I ever break this addiction, people, you will wonder where I went...


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 02:58 PM

Hey, Little Hawk, don't beat yourself up.

I have a brother who has lived in Bali off and on for a couple of decades. He speaks Balinese and has fitted in with the local people. A couple of decades ago i was talking to him about TV and its insidious effects on my kids. He pointed out that in Bali, people talked about everything at the end of the day, all sorts of things that were going on, including scandals, adultery etc, and all the family, including the young children, sat around and listened. He figured that TV was just another way of getting the same info to the kids!

Where is our fireplace to gather round? It is in our home, in our friend's homes, and in our mudcat friends homes.

freda


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 03:01 PM

Yes, but having gathered around real fireplaces with friends in the past, I worry about the effects of the virtual one. It's too easy, and it's always there.


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Sep 05 - 01:32 PM

Not political, (I think) but near and dear to my heart. Those who know me will understand.

old rule: "The ony way to be sure of having enough, is to always have a little bit too much."

Thanks, BillD!


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Subject: RE: BS: NON-Partisan political comments
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 02:56 PM

and from Peace:

"I don't really care what people choose to believe. That has never been an issue with me in real or cyber life. However, it's the suppression of the right to think that grates my petunias. From either 'side' of this issue."


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