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Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?

GUEST,Lonesome Gillette 08 Aug 04 - 11:40 PM
Bert 08 Aug 04 - 11:42 PM
GUEST,Julia 08 Aug 04 - 11:47 PM
GUEST,Lonesome Gillette 08 Aug 04 - 11:49 PM
Peace 09 Aug 04 - 12:13 AM
GUEST 09 Aug 04 - 02:39 AM
John MacKenzie 09 Aug 04 - 04:07 AM
kendall 09 Aug 04 - 06:57 AM
The Fooles Troupe 09 Aug 04 - 08:35 AM
kendall 09 Aug 04 - 08:57 AM
Joe_F 09 Aug 04 - 10:01 AM
Jim Dixon 09 Aug 04 - 03:53 PM
Jim Dixon 09 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM
Nerd 09 Aug 04 - 05:03 PM
Jeri 09 Aug 04 - 05:39 PM
SINSULL 09 Aug 04 - 08:17 PM
GUEST,Lonesome Gillette 15 Aug 04 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,joe 18 Aug 04 - 12:10 AM
A Wandering Minstrel 18 Aug 04 - 07:45 AM
Tannywheeler 18 Aug 04 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,Learaí na Láibe 18 Aug 04 - 07:58 PM
JennyO 18 Aug 04 - 10:33 PM
GUEST,dwighthobart@hotmail.com 17 Jan 05 - 04:10 PM
GUEST,hyrax@bellsouth.net 04 May 05 - 07:01 PM
GUEST 04 May 05 - 08:39 PM
GUEST,Declan 05 May 05 - 05:28 AM
GUEST 16 May 05 - 07:33 PM
GUEST 16 May 05 - 07:41 PM
GUEST,jsneed@mines.edu 03 Oct 05 - 12:35 PM
RoyH (Burl) 03 Oct 05 - 01:27 PM
kendall 03 Oct 05 - 02:19 PM
Bard Judith 03 Oct 05 - 09:52 PM
Dave'sWife 03 Oct 05 - 10:21 PM
Bard Judith 04 Oct 05 - 10:30 PM
Bard Judith 04 Oct 05 - 10:45 PM
Dave'sWife 22 Nov 05 - 12:47 PM
Artful Codger 22 Nov 05 - 01:48 PM
Kaleea 22 Nov 05 - 02:01 PM
GUEST,east texan 07 May 06 - 10:33 PM
DADGBE 08 May 06 - 08:48 PM
GUEST,C Fry 09 Apr 07 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,...................Your Friend Ben.......... 11 Dec 07 - 01:00 PM
Stringsinger 11 Dec 07 - 03:09 PM
Nerd 11 Dec 07 - 04:29 PM
Mr Happy 12 Dec 07 - 10:07 AM
topical tom 13 Dec 07 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,JudyBug 12 Apr 08 - 02:35 AM
GUEST,H. Molson 21 May 08 - 05:32 PM
Paul Burke 22 May 08 - 03:25 AM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 22 May 08 - 04:38 PM
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Subject: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Lonesome Gillette
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 11:40 PM

Anybody know the meaning of the word Rinktum?
Like in the song "Ducks on the Millpond"...
Chorus: "Lord, Lord, gonna get on a rinktum,
Lord, Lord, gonna get on a rinktum."


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Bert
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 11:42 PM

I dunno, but the word occurs also in The Swazi (sometimes Zulu) Warrior.

I kumma zeema zeema rinktum
I kumma zeema zeema zee.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Julia
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 11:47 PM

I've heard a song that has a chorus- To the Rinktum fiddle all the day- by Valentine Doyle
It's about a music party called The Rinktum....


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Lonesome Gillette
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 11:49 PM

Wow, that's interesting. I searched the internet for the word and not much comes up at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 12:13 AM

It appears in Froggy went a'courtin', and the William Faulkner site that ya get to after googling    rinktum, meaning    says he used it to mean rectum. It is also a meal that sounds a bit like rarebit, so I humbly admit it beats me.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 02:39 AM

errr the opposite of rectum?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 04:07 AM

What you get when you fall on your arse when ice skating?
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 06:57 AM

In Maine, a "Rinktum" has come to mean a party of folksingers. When I first met my supervisor in the Warden Service back in the late 50's, he used that word to mean getting called on the carpet for screwing up somehow. I remember when the Explorer sunk he and I were on our way to Augusta to explain what happened, and he said "I'm getting too old for these jeezly rinktums.
Next weekend I'm off to New Brunswick to have a party with a gang of folkies. That is the annual summer rinktum. In February, we have another one in Belfast Maine called the winter rinktum. Both are invitation only as space is limited.
Now you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 08:35 AM

Is a Rinktum an abbreviation of a wrinkled tummy?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 08:57 AM

Robin, don't give up your day job.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Joe_F
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 10:01 AM

The OED calls rinktum "rare southern U.S. dialect" and "alteration of RECTUM", with a quotation from Faulkner in 1929 ("I'll skin your rinktum").

Webster's 3rd had not heard of that, but does list "rinktum ditty: [origin unknown]: a mixture of tomato sauce, onion, cheese, egg, and seasonings served on toast".

I suspect that the use in choruses is mock Latin like "harum scarum", that "rinktum ditty" was arbitrarily named by someone who knew one of those choruses (an inmate of a summer camp would be a good guess), and that any allusion to the other end of the digestive system was secondary.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 03:53 PM

My father, who was born in 1899 in western Kentucky, and whose forebears probably came from the Appalachians, did indeed use "rinctum" to mean "rectum." He wasn't very musical, but he had relatives who were. As far as I know, he didn't know any song that used "rinctum" as a refrain. If he had, he probably would have considered it risqué, unfit for mixed company, and certainly unfit for a children's song.

I suspect that "rectum" was felt to be a "foreign" (i.e. Latin) word used primarily by doctors—who, after all, often eschew plain language, and are fond of using "contusion" for "bruise," "axilla" for "armpit," and so on. (Plain language would be "asshole.")

My father had a peculiar bias against accepting "foreign" words into his vocabulary. I don't know whether this was an idiosyncrasy of his, or a characteristic of the community he grew up in. It was as if, on hearing an unfamiliar word, he tended to assume the speaker was mispronouncing it, and really meant something else. Then, if he needed to use the word himself, he would often change the pronunciation to something he was already familiar with.

It makes sense to me that, if my father (or someone like him) had already known the word "rinctum" from a folksong, and then heard a doctor refer to a "rectum," he would have assumed that the intended word was really "rinctum."

Something similar was probably going on when "asparagus" came to be called "sparrow grass" in some communities.

Does this help, or am I only spelling out the obvious?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM

Some examples that come to mind:

"Brown-swagger" for "braunschweiger" (liverwurst)

"Sour-deans" for "sardines"

"Chowder cheese" for "cheddar"


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Nerd
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 05:03 PM

I think a rinktum is an asshole who plays hockey...


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 05:39 PM

"Rink" is a Scots (!) word meaning a large open space for bowling, curling, or yes, skating.
"Tumble" (or if we're going to stick to Scots, "tummle") is doing somersaults, cartwheels, or perhaps dancing with wild abandon or just flailing about.

You can stick them together and get "rink-tummle' and it's your basic wild garden party or possibly flailing around in a place you're supposed to be bowling or curling or skating. (Sounds like an average hockey game.) You shorten "rink-tummle" to "rinktum," and voila!

...or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's a Rinktum?
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 08:17 PM

HMMM. I just don't see Kendall flailing on the ice or in the garden, 12-string in hand and juggling a curling broom. Doing cartwheels in in a large garden, maybe, but only to distract others from seeing what Seamus is up to in the tiger lilies.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Lonesome Gillette
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 09:08 AM

Thanks everyone, now my band has lots to debate next rehearsal about the meaning of Ducks on the Millpond.
very helpful


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,joe
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 12:10 AM

i've only heard the word coming right after 'spizza' & that most always after '...fall on you're...'. i assumed it was a technical term.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 07:45 AM

its the long thin bit with a loop at each end that fits between the Hinktum and the folderiddlido without which your rifoltheday may become unhitched at high speeds.

Not a pretty sight I can assure you


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:24 PM

Sounds like Wandering Minstrel speaks from experience. The rest of you are probably spring chickens. "Rinktum" occurs in several songs as part of a nonsense-syllable chorus. Look up Burl Ives recordings and you'll see -- also an occasional "dinktum" may turn up. Related species, I think, but Wandering Minstrel may have further scientific info. Tw


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 07:58 PM

Anyone know what's a "doo wah diddy" ?


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: JennyO
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 10:33 PM

No, but you sing it when you are walking down the street :-)


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,dwighthobart@hotmail.com
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 04:10 PM

In west Texas the word rinktum or rinktums refers to the act of rubbing another person's scalp vigorously to the point of pain and is a favorite ploy of pre-adolescent boys. It can also mean to strike a sharp blow on someone's upper arm with a closed fist.   In my opinion, the Faulkner phrase, "I'll skin your rinktum", is a juvenile threat which would involve grabbing hold of someone by the neck and scouring the top of their head with your knuckles. This might also be known as a "Dutch rub" or even an "indian duck rub".

It is a living language. As for the derivation of "rinktum" in the first place...the Scots term may play a part along with the euphemistic modification of rectum.    In actual usage since the 1940s in west Texas the term always connotes threatened punishment in the sense of ,"I'm awn kick your ass."   But, as the simple minded bouncer from Sy's Old Barn in Pampa, Texas once declared before the assembled loafers in front of Dim's Gulf filling station in Miami, Texas, "You know, these people go on telling me how they awn whup my ass but then by God they always hit me in the face."


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,hyrax@bellsouth.net
Date: 04 May 05 - 07:01 PM

I grew up in the southern Appalachians; southwest Virginia. My grandmother (b. 1899) and others of her generation used this phrase: "Hit ain't worth a pewter rinctum [rinktum?]." I always took this to mean some item of little worth, such as (I imagined) a pewter ring, or some kind of small curio. I can't come up with any other references. The new Dictionary of Smoky Mountain English doesn't include the word. However, I'm very doubtful that the mountain people in Virginia were using the word to mean "anus." Would like to hear if anyone else is familiar with this usage.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 05 - 08:39 PM

With me RINGDUM doo dee ay, whack faldee oh, there's whisky in the jar.   Irish nonsense chorus!


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Declan
Date: 05 May 05 - 05:28 AM

Judging by recent threads, you won't get put out of this church for talking about diddy-wah-diddy to much.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 05 - 07:33 PM

I've been looking for this word for a while too - wonder if this triggers anything for somebody?

From the "Arkansas City Republican", July 4, 1885.

Friends, remember that the REPUBLICAN sanctum is now in the rear room of the Cowley County Bank building, directly over the composing rooms. Call and see us in our new "rinktum."


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 05 - 07:41 PM

She was so standoffish they called her Ice Rinktum. And him? Why, he was such a blowhard he never bothered with two facts if he could make one of them up, and he just glided through life like that, which is how he came to be called Skating Rinktum. And he had a cousin who fell on his ass about thirteen thousand times trying to learn to skateboard, and never did succeed -- a problem with the inner ear he inherited from his grandma, they say. He was known as Roller Rinktum. He had a sister called Damineer, as I recall, but she changed her named when she married Jimmy Kiltim from over near Pine Gorge.

Amos


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,jsneed@mines.edu
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 12:35 PM

Usage in south eastern Oklahoma in the 1940-50's is just as described below. The expression was frequently used by one of my uncles.

There was also some kind of kid game where doing someting...I foreget what..triggered your companions to shout "Rinktums!". The first one doing so was entitled to "skin your rinktum" in the sense described below.

I left southeastern OK in 1953, returning occasionally for brief periods after 1978. I don't remember hearing the word anywhere after 1953. My memory of it was triggered by reading Faulkner.


Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,dwighthobart@hotmail.com
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 04:10 PM

In west Texas the word rinktum or rinktums refers to the act of rubbing another person's scalp vigorously to the point of pain and is a favorite ploy of pre-adolescent boys. It can also mean to strike a sharp blow on someone's upper arm with a closed fist.   In my opinion, the Faulkner phrase, "I'll skin your rinktum", is a juvenile threat which would involve grabbing hold of someone by the neck and scouring the top of their head with your knuckles. This might also be known as a "Dutch rub" or even an "indian duck rub".


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 01:27 PM

Tannywheeler is right about Burl Ives use of the word. His 'Devilish Mary' has a 'rinkum, dinktum, derry' chorus. Not heard it elsewhere though.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: kendall
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 02:19 PM

Phil Harris sang...doo wa ditty it aint no town it aint no city, it's just a place called doo wa ditty, and that's what I like about the south.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Bard Judith
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 09:52 PM

Is a 'fa la la' related to a 'fol-de-rol'?

Apart from being able to deck halls nicely with both, that is....


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 10:21 PM

Check this out:

rinktum tiddy - A dish consisting of cheese, tomatoes, onion, egg, and pepper, on toast

from this webspage:
Vol. 1, No. 1 Dictionary of American Regional English


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Bard Judith
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 10:30 PM

According to several other cuisine websites, the Rinktum Ditty / Diddy / Tiddy is of Welsh origin. If you read the recipe, it looks like a fancied-up Welsh Rarebit / Welsh Rabbit, so that does sound reasonable. Does that argue a Welsh origin for the word itself?

http://music4kidsandmore.com/duckinmillpond.html will give you not only the words but the midi for "Duck in the Millpond", with the chorus of "Lord, Lord, gonna get on a rinktum" (4X)    (Let us hope the 'rectum' interpretation is by now far behind us...)

And apparently the Alka-Seltzer Song Book - "Circa 1937. Condition: Good Plus Wonderful booklet full of period ads and beloved songs of the era...." includes a melody called 'Hi Rinktum Inktum' (with photo of Lulu Belle and Scotty).   Who Lulu Belle and Scotty were, I shall never know - candidates for the plugged product, perhaps, after a steady diet of 'beloved songs of the era'...


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Bard Judith
Date: 04 Oct 05 - 10:45 PM

Ooops, hit the post button too fast!

Here's a great piece called "Rosy Rinctum Mary", available at http://www.missouristate.edu/folksong/maxhunter/1358/index.html - gloss: "The Max Hunter Collection is an archive of almost 1600 Ozark Mountain folk songs, recorded between 1956 and 1976."

That itself cross-links to http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=59230 'Harris, Plantation Songs' a discussion on the database and leads us back to a 'Christmas Play Party' written in dialect by Harris which contains our rinky-dinky hero in the chorus.

Whew! Don't know if that brings us any closer to answering the question.... but at least we can have a go at eliminating some 'false starters'...


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 12:47 PM

I found a reference to a word: spizzerinktum or spizzer inktum
and this note:
"As Merriam-Webster editors have pointed out in their May 2005 newsletter, it has been speculated “that the word derives in whole from Latin specie rectum, literally, ‘the right kind’â€"but that etymology appears to be a misguided attempt to make something more of good old American slang than is warranted.”

Full entry on Spizzerinctum

Another cross-back link to Mudcat:

Madam I have come a courtin- Quaker Song


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Artful Codger
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 01:48 PM

A rinktum is what you program into you cell phum.

And doo-wah-diddy (diddy dum) is yegg's rhyming slang for duodenum.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Kaleea
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 02:01 PM

Now I'm really cornfused! I visited many etymology sites this AM, and have sent inquiries to a few "experts." If I ever hear from any of them, I'll post the answer.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,east texan
Date: 07 May 06 - 10:33 PM

So in east texas backwoods the word refers to the outcome of home engineering, such as building a fence or chicken coop. It can be used in either a negative or positive way. It can be used like "rinky dink" meaning that the end result left much to be desired, or with the right inflection, it can mean that it is "the bomb".


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: DADGBE
Date: 08 May 06 - 08:48 PM

Hi Bard Judith,

Here's more about country music duo Lulu Belle and Scotty than you probably ever wanted to know.

Lulu Belle (Myrtle Cooper, 1913-1999) was one of radio station WLS's most popular personalities (in 1936 she was elected "Queen of all Radio"), and a regular on the "National Barn Dance" into the 1950's. She married Scott ("Skyland Scotty") Wiseman. The couple teamed up as "Lulu Belle and Scotty."


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,C Fry
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 02:22 PM

NO NO NO. None of you have it right.When you get a fresh Haircut and someone notices it and says "Rinktums" then they get to rub their knuckles
hard along your sideburns or the back of your head against the grain.
Now if you holler "Vench Rinktums or Venture Rinktums" then you are safe until next haircut.
Everyone in West Texas knows this.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,...................Your Friend Ben..........
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 01:00 PM

My Step dad was born in 1925 in INDIANA. His grandfather used the word rinktum to describe a gaget or sinple but usefull machine or tool. I see you have a new rinktum on your model-"T"there. Yup. Its a windshield wiper.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 03:09 PM

My theory about many of these nonsense syllables found in Anglo-American folk music
stem from Irish Gaelic words that when crossing the Pond lost their meaning. It could be Scot's "Gaelic" also. Hence you have "kimo-kymo bobalinkadydos" all over the place.
Just my take.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Nerd
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:29 PM

Rinktum is another word for icehole....


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 10:07 AM

' musha rinktum doo rum da ....'??


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: topical tom
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 09:47 AM

A nervous stomach experienced while skating or playing hockey.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,JudyBug
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 02:35 AM

My Grandmother, born about 1875 near Eros, Arkansas, used to sing a nonsense song which included the word, "rinktum." I think it was a version of Froggy's Gone A'Courtin' and sounded something like this, "Laddie go t'Rinktum, Kinero." She also sang a version of "Barbary Allen" which is different from the ones I have seen and heard collected.

I was born in 1935 and heard her sing that song often, but I can't remember it well. The word "rinktum" was never used in conversation when I was growing up in Rogers, AR and I heard it only in the song. I always assumed it was a place or a happening, maybe like a "playparty" which she mentioned many times as a gathering for the young people to get together and have a good time with music and games. I have no idea whether "kinero" is combination of syllables or a nonsense word. The song was definitely meant to be funny and the tune sounded to me like Froggy's Gone A'Courtin'.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,H. Molson
Date: 21 May 08 - 05:32 PM

I agree with C. Fry. My dad (born in 1924) and his generation used the expression when they were growing up in Houston. First to call Rinktums got to rub the back of your head near the hairline against the grain of your hair. If you called out Vince Rinktums first you were safe. But I haven't heard anybody use it in years.


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:25 AM

A sphing?


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Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:38 PM

If anyone remembers the old tune, "Hi-Ro Jerum," which contains the phrase "skin-a-ma-rink-e-dood-li-um," we may have now discovered a variation (expansion?)on the Rinktum theme...

I believe the song starts,
"There was a rich man, and he lived in Jerusalem
Glory Halleleuia, Hi-Ro Jerum..."

This was contained in an old "Song Fest" book from 1960 or so.


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