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BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate

DougR 22 Jun 04 - 07:37 PM
GUEST,paddymac 22 Jun 04 - 07:44 PM
GUEST 22 Jun 04 - 08:44 PM
Bobert 22 Jun 04 - 08:49 PM
kendall 22 Jun 04 - 10:03 PM
Bobert 22 Jun 04 - 10:41 PM
Bobert 22 Jun 04 - 10:42 PM
GUEST,Frank 23 Jun 04 - 05:22 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 23 Jun 04 - 05:32 PM
GUEST 23 Jun 04 - 07:10 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 23 Jun 04 - 07:33 PM
GUEST 23 Jun 04 - 07:44 PM
Bobert 23 Jun 04 - 09:52 PM
GUEST 24 Jun 04 - 08:50 AM
Bobert 24 Jun 04 - 10:28 AM
Bill D 24 Jun 04 - 10:58 AM
GUEST 24 Jun 04 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Frankham 24 Jun 04 - 11:13 AM
Bill D 24 Jun 04 - 11:14 AM
Bill D 24 Jun 04 - 11:16 AM
GUEST 24 Jun 04 - 11:34 AM
DougR 24 Jun 04 - 12:01 PM
Bill D 24 Jun 04 - 12:08 PM
Bev and Jerry 24 Jun 04 - 02:41 PM
GUEST 24 Jun 04 - 02:43 PM
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Subject: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: DougR
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 07:37 PM

Gee! I caw'nt believe it!

Nobody has started a thread on Ralph Nader's choosing a running mate!
Sounds like a good man! Anybody acquainted with Peter Camejo?

Maybe a vote for Nader wouldn't be wasted this time around.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST,paddymac
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 07:44 PM

I thought sure he'd go w/ Pee Wee Herman, or maybe Al Gore. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 08:44 PM

Well, as a Nader supporter, I'm hoping he will get an endorsement from the Greens. That will put him on the ballot in twenty two states. He has already been endorsed by the Reform Party, which put him on the ballot in 8 states.

In a democracy, no vote is ever wasted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 08:49 PM

Ditto, GUEST, ditto... With Kerry lookin' more like Bush-Lite or even Bush-Not-so-Lite, this may be the historic national election when the Green Party gets the 5% it needs to be in the '08 debates...

Opps, forgot to factor in Diebold... Greens are gonna need 7% to get credit for 5% and Kerry is gonna need a 50/45 victory to get past the Diebold program. Maybe 51/44.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 10:03 PM

At the rate he is going, Pee Wee Herman could beat Mr. Bush in November.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 10:41 PM

Well, at least PeeWee Heramn has a sex life even if it is with a popcorn box in a movie theater...

I don't want a president who doesn't have a sex life and I'm beginning to suspect that Bush traded it in a long time ago. Maybe he had guilt fir the partying he did in his 30's, I don't know. That's between his wife and his shrink. No, not that Luara Bush is doing his shrink, mind you. But if she is, well, that's her business.

"If you don't do your homework someone else will." (my cousin from Nwe Jersey)

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 10:42 PM

Excuse the thread drift...

Go Ralph, go....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 05:22 PM

There is a difference between Democrats and Republicans in spite of the reactionary left-wing view. There will be a marked improvement with Kerry and Nader could spoil it by his intransigence.

It is fitting, Doug, that you (I assume who are a Republican) would support
Nader to bring Bush back.

The issue is this: do you want four more years of Bush? Then vote for Nader.

Frankly, I miss Bill Clinton. His administration showed deficit reduction, job growth and social services improvement. The economy was humming and he may be remembered for a time of prosperity for many and progressive ideas.

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 05:32 PM

Well spake, Frank!

No matter how they tell it, to me Kerry is a windbag with no initiative, 6 million of his wife's money in Maul Wart - ing the USA - and he cant play a note so I guess we cannot accuse him of jumping on a wagon, ha ha.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 07:10 PM

Not all of us independents believe there are no differences between Democrats and Republicans, we just believe the differences are superficial, rather than substantial, and that the net effect, in the end, is the same regardless of whether the policy is a red or blue hue, branded with a donkey or an elephant, or labelled Republican or Democrat.

And of course that view makes us different from Republicans and Democrats, who think there are huge differences between their parties and their partisan politics. Some of us are just plain sick to death of that partisanship, and want to see some people in Washington who put their country before their ideological and party loyalties.

But the different ways of perceiving the differences between Democrats and Republicans is the essence of what makes us truly independent, non-partisan voters, and everyone else a partisan Democrat or a partisan Republican.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 07:33 PM

Well said Frank. I suspect folks do need to get at least as old as we are before they see from our perspective. It is very sad that Bush will probably still be president as a result of this candidacy. These days I spend my time trying to figure out a way to live in spite of the men who make it to the White House.

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 07:44 PM

And be sure of this Art Thieme, we will all be here to watch you eat your words on November 3rd.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 09:52 PM

Well, I for one, will be perfectly agreeable to broker my vote with any Democrat in Texas who was going to vote for Kerry, providing that Nadar is on yer ballot and also on mine in Wes Ginny, where Kerry needs a win... It's all about getting that 5%..

The Repubs went to court to shut down vote brokering in 2000 but I think it has its place this Novemeber...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 08:50 AM

I'm not going to broker my vote. I'm going to use it to vote my conscience, which is to vote for Nader. I'm hoping that the Greens will endorse the strategy that Camejo is offering, and that the party will endorse both the Nader/Camejo ticket, and the Cobb ticket as a unity resolution, and then everybody can work for the top of the ticket according to whom they wish to support, and the rest of the Green ticket locally.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 10:28 AM

I don't want to broker with you anyway, GUEST, as if I have the correst GUEST, you like in Texas anyway. That is the one safe state for Nadarites to find Kerry Dems and do the awap with them to vote for Kerry in their own state...

I see nothing wrong with Nadar getting every last vote he can and this is one way to insure it. It also works toward getting Bush out. No, not that Kerry is that much better but I think if Nadar were to get 5% nationally with brokered votes then in '08 he, or someone with his values, would have credibility and perhaps be included in the debates and get some funding...

But if there isn't a movement then a lot of folks who would have liked their Nadar voice to be heard will vote Kerry and we'll be looking at 2-3% again....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 10:58 AM

Ralph wants to choose running mates for himself AND for Kerry! Talk about bizarre politics....


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 11:12 AM

Yo Bobert, I'm in the hinterlands of the north here. I didn't think much of the vote bartering last time around, and I see no point in it this time, when the Nader/Camejo ticket is the ONLY anti-war ticket, and Nader stands a realistic chance to get more than 5% nationwide if the war on Iraq/on terror goes much further south.

Roughly one third of registered voters in the 18-35 age range are independents. If that base can be mobilized to turn out nationally to vote for Nader this year, we'll see Nader go over 5% for sure. So far, the polls show that Kerry will still get in, even with Nader taking 6-8%, depending on how you analyze today's numbers, and integrate them with the undecided independents.

I see no problem whatsoever with Nader putting pressure on Kerry to choose Edwards. If the media is going to ask Nader those kinds of questions, rather than about his own policies and agenda, why shouldn't Nader put pressure on Kerry to move back toward center field, instead of continuing to play so far to the right? I think Nader sees Edwards as a potential balancing force toward the rightward, corporatist tilt of the Kerry/Dem Party machine. Hell, I might even vote a ticket that has Edwards on it. But if Kerry goes conservative with his choice, there is no chance in hell he'll get my vote, or the youth vote.

The way I see it, it's up to the Dems to decide if they want to win the White House back in the short term, or whether they want to be a viable party in the 21st century. Right now, their strategy suggests they are only interested in the former, not the latter. That could well be a fatal error for them, and then we're back to the same old dilemma. Republicans will keep winning because the dumb fuck Democrats deserve to lose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST,Frankham
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 11:13 AM

There are substantial differences between Dems and Repubs.
How about the evidence? The country under Clinton was a far difference place for most people.

There was grant money for the arts.

Al Quaeda was being addressed by Clinton. A foiled plot to blow up LAX International Airport. Others as well.

Bush was not asleep at the switch before 911. He just didn't care. FBI reports are coming out now showing laxity. He blames the lack of information he received on others. He didn't want to know.

The deficits being brought down do affect the way Americans live. High deficits mean economic deprivation down the line.

The UN inspections were working until Bush called them to a halt. Clinton wouldn't have done that.

Janet Reno may have misstepped in Waco but nothing like Ashcroft's Draconian measures trampling on the Bill of Rights.

When did the US decide not to be a member of the Geneva Conventions? Not under Clinton.

Torture and abuse scandals are a little more critical than Monica's dress stains.

Another four years of Bush will have devastating effects on the US and Nader should know that, if he cares.

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 11:14 AM

I just went looking for the news story online, and can't find it....Am I the ONLY one here who heard a TV news story...twice...last night that said that Nader had sent a note to Kerry urging him to pick Jon Edwards as his running mate?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 11:16 AM

right...I KNEW I saw it!
http://www.charleston.net/stories/062404/wor_24nader.shtml


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 11:34 AM

There are big differences between some Democrats and some Republicans. There are not major differences between the policy and issue stands of George Bush and John Kerry.

As to Janet Reno/Waco vs John Ashcroft/Patriot Act--hell, at least it can be said that Ashcroft hasn't burned nearly 100 men, women, and children alive for their crimes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: DougR
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 12:01 PM

If the Green Party does back Nader, what will it do for his chances to increase the percentage of votes he will receive? I don't believe anyone thinks he willl win the election do you?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 12:08 PM

No, Doug...and even Nader does not expect to win..I guess he just wants the public exposure to make certain points....and in states where Bush is certain to win, I don't care too much...but if Nader pulls just enough votes to deny Kerry Florida, or Ohio, or Oregon...that will sure raise his image...as a spoiler who distorts the overall wishes of the country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 02:41 PM

Doug:

To answer your original question, Peter Camejo was the Green Party candidate for governor of California during the recent recall of Gray Davis when we elected the Governator. We saw him in a couple of debates and he was quite impressive in articulating the policies of his party. He actually answered questions as opposed to Arnold and Davis who merely danced around the questions. He got less than two percent of the votes but one of us actually voted for him.

We can see why Nader would pick him as they are in agreement on most things.

Bev and Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Ralph Nader chooses running mate
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 02:43 PM

The Nader strategy has several aspects. To keep an anti-war candidate in the news is the most important, to keep the pressure on both Bush and Kerry. Second, to keep building and growing the progressive third party and independent candidate movement, which is the long term strategy. Third, to make sure the issues that are being ignored by Bush and Kerry, by getting Nader into the presidential debates.


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