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BS: Australian election date

GUEST,John O'Lennaine 28 Oct 04 - 09:39 AM
The Fooles Troupe 28 Oct 04 - 06:29 AM
The Fooles Troupe 27 Oct 04 - 10:21 PM
freda underhill 25 Oct 04 - 11:06 AM
freda underhill 24 Oct 04 - 07:55 AM
freda underhill 24 Oct 04 - 07:10 AM
Hrothgar 24 Oct 04 - 06:48 AM
rich-joy 23 Oct 04 - 07:32 PM
The Fooles Troupe 23 Oct 04 - 10:43 AM
The Fooles Troupe 23 Oct 04 - 10:38 AM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Oct 04 - 10:02 PM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Oct 04 - 09:55 PM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Oct 04 - 08:54 PM
freda underhill 22 Oct 04 - 10:09 AM
GUEST,John O'Lennaine 22 Oct 04 - 09:21 AM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Oct 04 - 08:55 AM
freda underhill 20 Oct 04 - 09:43 AM
The Fooles Troupe 15 Oct 04 - 08:50 AM
GUEST 14 Oct 04 - 02:44 PM
GUEST, John O'Lennaine 14 Oct 04 - 09:14 AM
The Fooles Troupe 14 Oct 04 - 05:07 AM
Peace 14 Oct 04 - 12:53 AM
The Fooles Troupe 14 Oct 04 - 12:40 AM
The Fooles Troupe 13 Oct 04 - 07:22 PM
JennyO 13 Oct 04 - 11:43 AM
GUEST,Lyle 13 Oct 04 - 11:40 AM
The Fooles Troupe 13 Oct 04 - 07:46 AM
Hrothgar 13 Oct 04 - 05:02 AM
GUEST,John O'Lennaine 13 Oct 04 - 01:11 AM
The Fooles Troupe 13 Oct 04 - 12:40 AM
GUEST,Lyle 12 Oct 04 - 09:06 PM
The Fooles Troupe 12 Oct 04 - 08:10 PM
The Fooles Troupe 12 Oct 04 - 04:57 AM
rich-joy 12 Oct 04 - 02:02 AM
The Fooles Troupe 11 Oct 04 - 06:19 PM
The Fooles Troupe 11 Oct 04 - 06:10 PM
Helen 11 Oct 04 - 10:21 AM
The Fooles Troupe 11 Oct 04 - 08:18 AM
GUEST,John O'Lennaine 11 Oct 04 - 12:26 AM
The Fooles Troupe 10 Oct 04 - 08:07 PM
Charley Noble 10 Oct 04 - 11:26 AM
GUEST,John O'Lennaine 10 Oct 04 - 10:02 AM
Ellenpoly 10 Oct 04 - 02:01 AM
freda underhill 10 Oct 04 - 12:25 AM
dianavan 09 Oct 04 - 06:25 PM
Joybell 09 Oct 04 - 06:01 PM
dianavan 09 Oct 04 - 05:41 PM
Helen 09 Oct 04 - 05:32 PM
Peace 09 Oct 04 - 03:10 PM
dianavan 09 Oct 04 - 02:19 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 28 Oct 04 - 09:39 AM

I was listening to ABC radio when the news broke about Barnaby Joyce winning the Coalition's 39th Senate seat.
They broadcast Boswell phoning Howard live to air.

Talking to Howard, Boswell said something like "so now it's open s..." and he stopped and went on to say something else.

One of the reporters present asked him if he had been about to say "open slather" and he said "No I was going to say open...(pause)...sesame"

Bloody oath Ronnie, that's just what you were going to say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Oct 04 - 06:29 AM

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/28/1098667878269.html#

PM's clean sweep: Senate control
October 28, 2004 - 3:05PM

Prime Minister John Howard will have control of the upper house after the Nationals today were declared the winner of Queensland's Slast enate seat.

Nationals candidate Barnaby Joyce was declared the winner of the sixth Senate seat when the Australian Electoral Commission completed the final computer count on the complex Senate preference distribution.

The win by Mr Joyce will give the coalition government 39 of the Senate's 76 members.

In the Queensland Senate race, the Liberals won three seats, Labor two and the Nationals one seat.

The result means from July next year, the Howard government will be able to pass controversial legislation previously blocked by the Senate.

It will be the first time a government has held such dominance since the Fraser government in the 1970s.

Veteran Queensland Nationals Senator Ron Boswell burst into tears when the result was declared and called Mr Howard to deliver the good news.

Senator Boswell said it was an "historic day for Australia".

The government will now be able to pass legislation for the full sale of Telstra and introduce more industrial relations reforms.

Asked whether the Senate would be a rubber stamp now for the government, Senator Boswell told reporters in Brisbane: "The prime minister has said he is not going to abuse the power and he is going to be very careful what he puts through.

"He said he will be very happy to work with us ... this is the icing on his cake."

Australian Democrats leader Andrew Bartlett said Australians would have to watch the Senate closely now minor parties had lost the balance of power.

The final result of Victoria's Senate count will not be known for
another week.

The Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) is still entering data from
about 80,000 below-the-line ballot papers and does not expect to compute the results of preferences until next Wednesday at the earliest.

An AEC spokesman said counting had been slow because of the large field of 65 senate candidates.

It would also be interrupted by the Melbourne Cup holiday on Tuesday.
So far, 3,105,039 votes - or 94.25 per cent of the total enrolled in
Victoria - have been counted.

It is expected that about 2.5 per cent of electors - or about 80,000 people - have voted below the line, meaning their preferences cannot be allocated according to group tickets and have to be entered manually.

Steve Fielding from the Family First Party is almost a certainty to become the sixth and final senator from Victoria, thanks to preferences from both major parties plus the Democrats.

In he wins, Mr Fielding will become the party's first senator in Victoria. In counting to date, the Greens have a total of 256,861 votes, while Family First has 55,692.

But according to rough calculations, his final vote will be almost twice that of the Greens' David Risstrom - and comfortably above the quota of 420,720 - once preferences are factored in.

The election of Mr Fielding, who has steadfastly refused to speak to the media until the result is announced, would mean Victoria had elected three Liberal/National, two Labor and one Family First senator to the new parliament.

Family First have benefited from preference swaps that were intended to ensure the third candidate on Labor's ticket, Jacinta Collins, was
re-elected ahead of Mr Risstrom.

The plan backfired disastrously for Labor.

For a few fleeting days after the October 9 election, it appeared Mr
Fielding could have held the balance of power in the Senate.

AAP


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 10:21 PM

Just on ABC Channel 2 News

Johnny has an absolute Senate majority from 1 July 2005.

Providing of course that any challenges based on the stuff-ups in postal voting are overruled.

The final step might be a reissue of the Senate Election for Queensland, which might be seen as a Referendum on whether Johnny should have that absolute majority.

The worrying things are:

1) US making noises about not liking the amendments to the FTA (F*** The Aussies) insisted on by Labour.

2) Johnny making big noises about not letting it go to his head (from the 'Never Ever a GST' man!!!)

3) Johnny saying that he will push thru all the things that the Senate has obstructed...

Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:06 AM

Greens hope to win final Senate spot in Tasmania
October 25, 2004 - 8:38PM; syd morning herald

The Australian Greens are hopeful rebel Labor and Australian Democrats voters will hand the Greens' Christine Milne the final Senate position in Tasmania. The sixth seat in Tasmania will be decided tomorrow after the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) distributes preferences. The Greens claimed the Senate spot for Ms Milne on election night but it later became evident that conservative Family First candidate Jacquie Petrusma might scrape ahead on preferences.

But Greens Senator Bob Brown today said there was growing optimism his party would win the seat after all, due to a leakage of preferences from Labor and the Australian Democrats. Labor and the Democrats did a deal with Family First, putting it ahead of the Greens on their Senate voting tickets, meaning the preferences of anyone voting above the line flow to Family First before the Greens.

However, Tasmania, with the ACT, has the highest percentage of people voting below the line, which allows voters to choose where their preferences will go. Senator Brown said about 20 per cent of Tasmanians had voted below the line, with 70 per cent of preferences from people who voted for the Democrats or Labor flowing to Ms Milne.
"There is something of a preference rebellion," he said. "I suspect many of those people voted (like that) because they didn't like what their party was doing. "It's giving us renewed hope that Christine will cross the line before Family First."

In Queensland, a nervous Nationals candidate Barnaby Joyce will have to wait until Wednesday before the AEC determines Senate preferences.
Mr Joyce is again leading One Nation's Len Harris - by about 700 primary votes - after a scare on Friday, when he fell behind in the count. The final result will hinge on where preferences flow and Mr Joyce said the trend suggested the Nationals would ultimately win the seat. "My gut feeling is nervous," Mr Joyce said. "(But) I'd be more likely to put money on me than against me." While the Nationals look a good chance to pick up two extra Senate spots - the other going to Fiona Nash in NSW - the situation is looking glum for the Democrats.AAP


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 07:55 AM

PM's fresh agenda hits Senate hurdle; By Louise Dodson, John Garnaut and Mark Metherell; October 23, 2004

But the Coalition's strong expectation of controlling the Senate was looking suddenly shaky last night. Latest counting showed the lead of the crucial Queensland National Party candidate, Barnaby Joyce, had all but evaporated - from 5000 votes to a few hundred.

The shock shift, on the last day for receiving postal votes, could have profound implications for the Coalition's plans to reshape media ownership, industrial relations and ownership of Telstra.

An exasperated Mr Joyce - who was welcomed to the National Party's first party room meeting on Wednesday - said a personal letter from Mr Howard to traditional Nationals voters in regional Queensland had split the Coalition vote. "John Howard's once-in-a lifetime opportunity to control the Senate could be destroyed by his own letter. I'm not sure that's what he had in mind."

The National Party's calculations of the expected flow of preference votes suggest it maintains a razor-thin margin over One Nation. But if One Nation gets ahead, preference flows should ensure the Greens beat both of them for the sixth Queensland seat. This would probably leave the Coalition with 38 Senate seats, one short of a majority.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 07:10 AM

no, but I'm hoping someone from family first might hop across..


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Hrothgar
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 06:48 AM

freda, do you really think that anybody in the Liberal Party is going to risk Honest John's vindictiveness by listening to the voice of conscience?

He uses it to rule the public service - it is now mre politically subservient than at any time since Federation.

He has used it to bring the ABC to heel - nobody ever managed that before.

Do you think members of his own party will be exempt?


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 07:32 PM

Ye Gods! I wish some Mudcat Pixie had split this thread at 100 posts - it takes me SOoooooo long to load!!!

(Sorry!!)

Cheers! R-J


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 10:43 AM

The Australian



Family First a sign Lucky Country is going the American way

23oct04

JOHN Howard is much less a cultural Americaphile than you might think. His middle name is Winston, after all, and his parents knew who they were naming him after. In a recent interview he told me he thought "pure rapture" about US political culture was more common in the Labor Right, whereas he was a defender of distinctive Australian cultural expression.

Nonetheless Howard is one shrewd politician and recognises power rests with the US. Interestingly, he has presided over, though not caused, a tremendous Americanisation of our political culture.

Mark Latham, like a large number of ALP Right figures, has a passionate interest in US politics and consciously apes a number of US tactics, such as the shallow and facile "triangulation" of former Clinton adviser Dick Morris.

The way Latham tried to make his utterly unremarkable biography into the central feature of Labor's campaign was Clintonesque, with "a place called Green Valley" substituting for Bill Clinton's more euphonious "a place called Hope", though with infinitely less effect (it's just as well Latham wasn't born in Fairy Bower).

Latham's failure illustrates the difficulty leaders have in translating successful formulas across cultures. But at deeper levels this election discloses the Americanisation of our political culture.

This is evident in four decisive dynamics: the emergence of a Christian Right, the Americanisation of the middle class, the acceptance of ethnic diversity and our unique security dynamics.

Australia has been pregnant with a Christian Right for years, but they could just never quite get their act together. Brian Harradine was really a Christian Right senator but made no effort to take his movement national. Fred Nile has been a Christian Right presence in the NSW Parliament, but too narrow in his appeal. But at this election Family First scored about 2 per cent of the vote nationally and, through shrewd preference deals, may snare one or even two senators. Family First is the right name for a party of this kind. It carries an ideological message - support of families - but is inclusive, reassuring.

The more the secular blowhards of the ABC sneer at Family First the greater its appeal will become. Its spokesmen have emerged as moderate, sensible, mainstream Australians. In fielding so many candidates so quickly the party attracted a few cranks, but as they emerged the party quickly distanced itself from them.

There is nothing even remotely threatening to the traditional Australian way about a political movement that takes its inspiration from Christian values. Indeed we are only two generations away from a time when all mainstream political movements did.

Family First emerges from the Assemblies of God church. One of the most powerful social trends in recent years has been the growth of Bible-based, evangelical Christianity. You see it all over the Gold Coast and the fast-growing McMansion suburbs of all our big cities.

The American Christian Right is much demonised in the Australian media, but within the US it is a perfectly normal, mainstream force. It has not turned the US into a theocracy nor curtailed civil liberties. It has injected a strong values discussion into national politics.

There are about 50 million US evangelical Christians. They are highly committed, with a high church-going rate, and their churches have become centres of social and political as well as religious organisation. Australian Bible-based churches are also committed, evident in the growth of Christian schools. They are a social movement that seeks political expression. That's called democracy.

This is part of the broader Americanisation of the middle class. The Liberal Party now holds Penrith and Blacktown in Sydney's western suburbs, and only just lost Parramatta. In Melbourne, Aston, which was held by Labor all through the 1980s and is classic mortgage-belt territory, is now safer Liberal than Kooyong.

Australia's national wealth is now $5trillion, which is $250,000 for every man, woman and child. The growth of the McMansions is about much more than the traditional obsession with housing, though our concern with housing is an entirely good thing, the key to our social stability. The McMansion suburbs are now politically detribalised. Labor can never count on them automatically again, nor indeed can the Liberals.

They are suburbs whose residents dispose of a high degree of private wealth compared with a generation ago. They are defined by concern for their homes and their mortgage payments, social conservatism on crime and education, patriotism and support for our armed forces, and interest in local issues.

It's an unsatisfactory term but you might think of these suburbs as the middle of the middle class, or as ex-working class. In order to compete here Labor needs to be less a traditional Labor Party and more like the US Democrats, friendly to business, friendly to family values, including private schools, friendly to religion, reliable on security.

John Kerry, the most left of any Democrat presidential candidate since Michael Dukakis in 1988, says he'll keep the Bush tax cuts for everyone earning up to $US200,000 (about $272,000) per year. He's competing for those votes. The top US personal tax rate is 40 per cent and cuts in at nine times the average income. That's a tax scale that provides incentive and promotes aspiration. It's the way for a society that wants to be wealthier, and that's the desire of seats such as Greenway, Lindsay and Aston.

On national security we don't, unlike New Zealand or Canada, have a giant neighbour to protect us. We don't, unlike the Europeans, live surrounded by like-minded, rich states. We know we have to provide for our own security. The UN is not relevant in our part of the world. So we not only value the US alliance, we see the world in a more similar way to the US.

And here's a point on ethnic diversity. This year's epic NRL grand final, in which the magnificent Bulldogs triumphed over the Sydney Roosters, was a historic first. All the points for the winners were scored by Muslims (Hazem El Masri and Matt Utai).

Nobody noticed, and there's no reason why they should. But it's a social indicator nonetheless. Just as in the US, professional sport integrates very fast, in terms of race and religion, because it emphasises performance, not background.

Aspirational voters come from everywhere. An idea born in the US, we may produce an even better version of it here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 10:38 AM



Voter revolt' might win Green seat

October 23, 2004

A BELOW-THE-LINE voting rebellion by Labor and Australian Democrats voters in Tasmania might still get Greens candidate Christine Milne into the Senate, party leader Bob Brown said today.

Ms Milne is in a tight battle with Family First's Jacquie Petrusma for the final Tasmanian Senate seat from the October 9 election.

Senator Brown said Ms Milne's primary vote grew from 12.6 per cent earlier in the week to 13.3 per cent today, with only a handful of votes left to count. A quota is 14.3 per cent.

"What will help Christine to reach towards a quota is a below-the-line rebellion by Labor and Democrat voters," he said in a statement.

"Although these parties directed preferences to Family First ahead of the Greens, up to 70 per cent of below-the-line voters for both parties put Christine ahead of Family First.

"It is this rebellion together with her improved primary count which has put Christine in a better position."

Senator Brown said the outcome would probably be known on Tuesday when the Australian Electoral Commission computer distributed the preferences and came up with a final result.

He said Greens candidate Drew Hutton remained in a race with the Nationals' Barnaby Joyce for the final Senate spot in Queensland.

"If he were to win, it would deprive Prime Minister John Howard of an absolute Senate majority for the coming three year parliamentary term."

Senator Brown said the Greens' Rachel Siewert was set to win a seat in Western Australia.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 10:02 PM

Somebody sent this to me... the sentiments mainly apply to the USA, with the exception of their lack of preferential voting...

~~~~~~
Learning from the enemy.

If you want to see what kind of lunatic we are up against, have a look at this kook. Back in 83 she almost singlehandedly killed multicultural education in Queensland. Some of the stuff on her website probably gives the FFP guys wet dreams.

http://www.angelfire.com/id/ronajoyner/

BUT, she also shows us important things. Form small working groups and think tanks with misleading names. Write submissions on behalf of those groups. Badger politicians and committees... Respond to every call for public comment by writing submissions. Be active on paper as well as on the streets.

Create petitions, and -O-R-G-A-N-I-S-E-. These nutcases have changed government policy and corporate direction time and again over the last 25 years often with a matter of 500 signatures or form letters...

We have to find a way to organise The Others: the Pagans, the Kinks, the Boheminas, the Ferals, the Goths, all the minorities that people like Rona Joyner hate and fear.

We can rally around and support groups like the Greens, and we can create our own voices. Create (and fund) Think Tanks that sound neutral but provide reasoned arguments against the economic rationalists, the hatemongers and destroyers. Form lobby groups that raise their voices against the Assemblies of God and their ilk and their visions of a _pure_ and purely Christian Australia remade in their image...

And by all that is Secular, educate people about our electoral system. Make them think. Convince them that they can chose their own preferences, they don't have to follow how to vote cards... If I had a dollar for every time someone told me "I can't vote Green their preferences go to Labor" (or vice versa) I could afford to get very very drunk... (Which Johnny's smug grin makes me want to do.)

...Brock.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 09:55 PM

It has been noticed over some years here that second rate US unemployed political advisors have been employed here in Australia - not always a good idea as many tactics that work well in the USA backfire here, not only because we have a compulsory preferential system (with the 'donkey vote') but we are still a differently culture, not fully brainwashed 'Americans' yet. We also tend to have a higher average understanding of the world too - we are not as isolationist as the USA.

~~~~~~~~~

Weekend Australian
The Nation


Coalition Senate control in doubt
Patricia Karvelas and Andrew McGarry
23oct04

JOHN Howard's chances of controlling the Senate in his own right were in doubt last night as the Nationals' Barnaby Joyce fell behind One Nation's Len Harris for the first time in the crucial race for the sixth Queensland seat.

An unusual leap by One Nation on the last day for receiving postal votes left Mr Joyce angry with the Prime Minister for supporting a Queensland-specific preference deal and campaign strategy.

"John Howard could have lost the once-in-a-lifetime chance to control the upper house by sending out a letter to the National Party base (asking people to vote) for the Liberal party ticket," he said.

The Coalition won the election with 87 lower house seats, up five, while Labor had a net loss of four, leaving it with 60. With three independents, the majority is now 14, up from 8. But in the Senate, the Coalition, at 38, is one seat short of an absolute majority.

The Nationals vote for the Senate seat has declined over the past three days, and after leading the minor parties they are now about 500 votes behind One Nation. But with 150,000 votes to be counted, experts said it was still impossible to call the result.

ABC election analyst Antony Green said the Nationals were pulling ahead until yesterday, and it was impossible to predict the outcome based on one day's count.

"It's the first time it's happened - I don't know what happened to the vote today," he said.

If One Nation continued to stay ahead, the Greens' Drew Hutton could win the seat.

"There has been a dramatic change to the count today and I'm not quite sure what's caused that," Green said. "What that suggests to me is they have counted something quite specific which has caused that change."

Labor's candidate for the South Australian seat of Hindmarsh, Steve Georganas, yesterday became the new MP by just 113 votes. The seat is now the second most marginal in the country, after Swan in Western Australia.

"I'd be lying if I didn't say it felt terrific," Mr Georganas said.
"It's been seven years of campaigning, solid grassroots campaigning, and it's paid off."

The Liberal Party is set to request a recount in Swan after Labor claimed victory late yesterday, with sitting member Kim Wilkie scraping home by a margin of only 109 votes.

Robert Hames, the Liberal campaign manager in Western Australian, said a final decision on a recount had yet to be made and would probably wait until the official declaration of the poll next week.

West Australian ALP state secretary Bill Johnston said the party was claiming Swan, even though the Liberals had yet to concede, and he doubted the Australian Electoral Commission would order a recount.

But the Liberals conceded Labor's Graham Edwards had retained the West Australian seat of Cowan, with the latest count giving him a margin of 1199 votes, and only 182 votes left to tally.

Mr Edwards said yesterday his win was historic as it was the first time the Cowan electors had returned the same candidate in three successive elections.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 08:54 PM

Australia is the home of 'The Donkey Vote' (I seem to remember that was well over one fifth of the electorate), and also a great gambling nation with a sense of fairness.

The Donkey vote is 'start at the top and go all the way down in order - no matter who it is'.

Places on the ballot papers are selected by random draw - nothing fairer for a gamble than that!

Many die hard supporters vote the party line (with the party distribution of preferences) - so all you have to do (in the Senate) is place a 1 in a single box 'above the line' - you don;t need a lot of intelligence for that.

So for nearly one fifth of the electorate to number from 1 to about 70 in order, it means that they severely disagree with 'the party lines'. That's pretty well enough to swing any Aussie election, lower house, and get 1 or 2 Senate candidates up.

BTW, in Federal elections, we have Federal rules, so everybody votes under the same rules: State elections - each state has its own rules.

I wa also disgusted at the the way the US owned media have threated Aussie elections more like the US system - a Presidential style system which assumes first past the post voting.

Most Aussies had no choice whether they could vote for Howard or Latham, only the people in their respective electorates could do that!

The only thing we can do here is 'party vote' - even if your local rep is a drunken cretin, you have to 'vote for the party'!


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 10:09 AM

I wonder if any Liberals of conscience will cross over and form an alliance in the Senate with the greens, Dems N Labour to create a limit of the govt's powers? here's hoping....


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 09:21 AM

"But Tasmania has many independent minds, and 17 per cent of voters have selected their own preferences." -

Am I right in drawing from this that 17% of the electorate voting below the line is considered to be a LOT?

Aaaahhh, my poor gullible complacent fellow Australians, when will you ever learn?


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 08:55 AM

Family First losing Senate control to Coalition - Election 2004 -



Family First losing Senate control to Coalition
By Tim Colebatch
Canberra
October 22, 2004

The Government's grip on a historic Senate majority is tightening, with National Party candidate Barnaby Joyce steaming away in the count for Queensland's final Senate seat.

A steady flow of votes counted since election night has doubled the
Nationals' lead over Family First at the point in the preference
distribution where one or other candidate is eliminated.

On election night, the Nationals led by roughly 2500 votes, assuming all voters vote above the line. Their lead has now doubled to almost 5000 votes, and Mr Joyce is odds-on to win.

His victory would give the Coalition 39 of the 76 seats in the new
Senate to take office next July, the first time in 24 years that a
government has controlled the upper house. With senators elected for
six-year terms, that control should last until at least 2011.

In the House of Representatives, Labor has regained a 45-vote lead in
Hindmarsh, the one seat still in doubt. The last 360 votes will be
counted today.

In Tasmania, Greens Senate candidate Christine Milne is odds-on to take the final seat after clawing back more votes in her struggle with Family First. The Greens have almost 40,000 votes and Family First just 7300, but on paper, preferences would give it the seat. But Tasmania has many independent minds, and 17 per cent of voters have selected their own preferences. Ms Milne needs just 7 per cent of voters to give her their preference ahead of Family First.

No other Senate seats are in doubt. The major parties will split them
three-all in NSW and South Australia. Family First will win the final
seat in Victoria, and the Greens will take it in WA. The Coalition has won three seats in each state and Labor two.

This would see Labor again with 28 seats in the new Senate. The Greens would move from two to four, while the Democrats shrink from seven to four. One Nation and the independents will disappear, leaving Family First's Steven Fielding alone in the corner benches.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:43 AM

Seventh Labor frontbencher moves back - Wednesday, 20 October , 2004 18:14:51; Reporter: Alexandra Kirk; ABC

The Shadow Minister for Housing, Daryl Melham, is the latest frontbencher to tell his leader he'll be moving to the backbench. Caucus is meeting in Canberra on Friday, when the factions decide who gets to sit on the frontbench, but their scope for action is getting increasingly constricted by the unavailability of experienced candidates. And Labor's agony may be further prolonged because Mark Latham may not announce his new shadow ministers until next week.

So far this week, frontbenchers Bob McMullan, Lindsay Tanner and Craig Emerson have announced they're shifting to the backbench. This afternoon Daryl Melham told Mark Latham he wouldn't be a candidate for the shadow ministry. PM understands while he has his left faction's support to stay on the frontbench, he feels he's had a fair run and is happy to make a contribution on the backbench through parliamentary committees. A fight is still on over whether Simon Crean will remain on the frontbench. PM understands Mr Latham is working hard to save his former leader, in the face of trenchant opposition in some quarters. Mr Latham's also understood to want the newly-elected Peter Garrett on his frontbench.

And as the fallout from Labor's defeat continues, PM's been told Lindsay Tanner took himself off to the backbench after being offered the shadow finance portfolio, which he had between 1998 and 2001. He was also offered leader of opposition business in the House of Representatives. Lindsay Tanner won't comment and neither will Mark Latham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 08:50 AM

You call THAT thinking?

Mudcat has deleted my previous attempt to reply, along with my review of The Chaser.

Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 02:44 PM

Congratulations to the thinking people of Australia who returned John Howard to office.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST, John O'Lennaine
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 09:14 AM

Brucie -
"Neocon" has not yet become part of the Australian political lexicon. I can see that changing soon.

Most of the worst features of American culture are sooner or later imported here, and now we have a juggernautic conservative government that will be almost impossible to remove and which will ride roughshod over any and all humanity in its path for years, maybe decades, I'd say we have imported the neocon in fact, if not yet in name.

I saw a scarey picture a day after the election, of Howard coming out of what I assume was St. Mary's Cathederal in Sydney.
It suddenly flashed on me that a new age of christian fundamentalism (lower case intended) is dawning.

If the Americans don't remove Bush this year, I'd say we're all as good as f-d, over and over, for a long long time.

I hope I'm not being overly pessimistic - no, wait a minute, I hope I AM being overly pessimistic - what the hell, I only came here to read Foulestroupe's review of the Chaser report, and he hasn't even clocked on yet.

Ah well, off to bed. I'll wake up tommorrow and find it will all have been a nightmare.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 05:07 AM

NEOCON = Neo-Conservative === "Stupid Dangerous Wanker", or is that "Dangerous Stupid Wanker"...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yesterday in my mail I received my Centrelink notice which informed me that my payment had been reduced by approx a dollar a fortnight. No explanation, but the date of effect was 9 Oct 2004 - the election date! Just as well they didn't send the bloody notices out to everybody in advance of the election date...

"He's not MY Prime Minister!"

The most likely reason is a revision of the rate of "deeming" of the theoretical rate of interest income from savings, no matter what rate you actually get (if any), and any income you do get, you have to physically advise the amoount so they can deduct half of that amount aanyway...


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 12:53 AM

Does the word NEOCON mean anything to anyone?


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 12:40 AM

Oh, God! Oh Me! Oh My! Oh Feck, whatever!

After touting the predictions of endless riches for all in the future economic circumstances, and after throwing money around like a drunken sailor (we need a shanty now!), and saying that all election promises made will be fulfilled, the Treasurer has now stated that the future will not be so good, and that belt tightening may have to occur...

Be still my beating heart!

Am I surprised? No...


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 07:22 PM

Australia cannot become the most powerful nation.

Between 75% to 90% of the land is arid. A large proportion of the arable land has been built on.

There is this insane idea that we can support a much larger population, in spite of the fact that it is predicted that we will be unable to have enough water for the current population in a few years time if the current world weather trends continue.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: JennyO
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 11:43 AM

Sounds like a plan to me, Lyle. When are you coming?


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,Lyle
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 11:40 AM

Foolestroupe: Best answers I've ever gotten about forms of government - thanks!

So how about this?

Everybody in Australia that voted for Howard moves to United States.
Everybody in US that is against Bush moves to Australia.

Then we'd have:
1) US in such bad shape Canada would have to take over
2) Ausralia becomes the most powerful nation in the world
3) Everybody happy, and
4) I'd get to meet you!


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 07:46 AM

'I half-heard something the other night regarding a plan to stop funding government schools altogether and issue coupons to parents to be used "at the school of their choice". '

I heard this one ages ago before the election. It'll be popular, and cause the State Schools to be shut down as Schooling is 'Privatised'. Everybody wants their scruffy little rugrats to go to the best schools only, of course...

The senate will have the method of voting changed, so we will never get rid of the buggers. I'm annoyed that they can even do this without a referendum.

The Americans are going to reject the FTA (now called F*** The Aussies!) unless they get rid of Labour's amendments. Goodbye PBS, Intellectual rights, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Hrothgar
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 05:02 AM

I am still trying to come to terms with the proposition that Labor allocated their preferences to Family First ahead of the Greens and the Democrats.

My opinion of this oscillates between incompetence and irresponsibility. A party that can make a decision so stupid is not fit to run the country, so maybe it's a good thing they lost. Bow, if only we could make the Liberals lose as well.

As a "below the line" voter, I put FF stone motherless last.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 01:11 AM

With the Howard government's proposed changes to cross-media ownership laws, Packer will be able to buy the Fairfax newspapers, and that will effectively mean that the majority of Australians will get no news that isn't government-sanctioned.

Thus the Liberals will be in government forever.

I half-heard something the other night regarding a plan to stop funding government schools altogether and issue coupons to parents to be used "at the school of their choice".
Hard to believe. I surely must have misunderstood what was said. Someone please tell me I misunderstood what was said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Oct 04 - 12:40 AM

1) Anytime the Prime Minister calls it, but the maximum term is 3 years.

2) If he wants - he is not limited to two terms like the US - and we do not have fixed terms. That was only brought in to stop US Presidents that the people wanted because they thought they were good from staying in office forever...

3) We don't have a democracy based on the stupid American system, we have one based on the stupid British system...

4) The US system is a Circus designed to distract the populace from the facts that only rich guys get to be President, and that both parties are indistinguishable to non-Americans, so you really have the cleverest form of Single Party Dictatorship - run by Big Business Crooks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,Lyle
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 09:06 PM

Couple questions...

When will your next election (forPM) be?

Will Howard be able to run then, too?

Thanks, Lyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 08:10 PM

A couple of thousand postal votes went astray - a private contractor's fault - and now Qld voters in Maranoa, got sent NSW senate papers... counting will be delayed s bit longer...


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 04:57 AM

It took ages for some people to forgive Bob Hawke for publicly crying, and that was just the Labour Supporters...

Saw on TV Americans criticising Kerry. Seems that because he spoke about war crimes in Vietnam, that he has betrayed not only his country, but also the US troops that he was ratting on, thus is unfit to be President.

We had that in Queensland when somebody finally ratted on the crooked cops. "Betrayed his workmates"...

These people who think like this vote!

And you wonder what's wrong with the world...

Don't forget to watch "The Chaser" on ABC TV2 this week - their summary of the election.

Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: rich-joy
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 02:02 AM

I've been working out-of-town and away from my 'puter for a few days, but, John O'Lennaine, sadly there's some truth in what you posted the other day :

" ... The perception that being a thug equates with being a strong leader is too widespread. Apparently Australians favour strength over humanity in their leaders - I don't know who did the reasearch ..."

Well, we were having a quiet beer in a Brisbane pub on election eve and chatting to the young barmaid about it all. She said she didn't like Howard, but disliked Latham even more. Why?
: Because he got a tear in his eye in public - and HOW can you have someone like that governing the Country???

We were gob-smacked : this young woman will soon be producing the next generation of Australians ...

So, all we can do is ourselves "lead by example" and as suggested by Andy from the Blue Mountains on an Aussie Folk List :

" ... The best way to defeat the Liberal government is to commit to acts of kindness and generosity of spirit wherever you can. This way any mean mindedness and any poverty of spirit will be superseded by sincerity and honesty on a grass roots level.
Don't despair. Do what this government has proven itself incapable of doing.
Stay together and keep hearts and minds of REAL Australia intact.
andyb"

Thanks Andy.


Cheers! R-J


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 06:19 PM

Just found this while looking for something else - it's appropriate -
Political Song - (Innocent Voter Swallowed Lie) - or it could be easily modofied for Johnny!


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 06:10 PM

Core Promises!

Or as I said to a friend during the campaign - Caw! Promises?!!!

During the Campaign, he threw money around like a drunken sailor: the new Govt is not even sworn in yet, and Johnny has now said that he will "re-evaluate all the Govt Policies". This from a guy who campaigned on "Trust" - and with his record of 'honesty' too GST, 'overboard'!

The very people who switched to him based on that campaign strategy, are now going to discover that he lied...

How do you know a politician is lying - he says "Trust Me"!

Actually, "Caw! Promises?!!!" would make a great song, but my muse is on sabbatical, I think...


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Helen
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 10:21 AM

Well, he is already announcing his plans to screw the real people, the workers.

And he has trotted out his "mandate" myth again. He used that to introduce GST and now he is using it to put the final nails in the coffin of industrial well-being for the workers.

Monday, October 11, 2004. 6:47pm (AEST)

Coalition targets unfair dismissal laws

The re-elected Howard Government has indicated restructuring industrial relations, particularly the unfair dismissal laws, are among its first goals if it wins control of both houses of Parliament.

The Coalition's mandate could also allow it to push through the full privatisation of Telstra, changes to cross media ownership laws and its forestry policies, which fuelled a new record close on the Australian stock market as related companies made strong gains.

The Coalition is set to take 38 of the 76 Senate seats and is expected to turn to the Christian-oriented Family First party, which is likely to gain a seat, to back its legislative agenda.

It could be the first time the government has controlled the upper house in 23 years.

"We certainly will press ahead very strongly with things we believe in for a long time, particularly in the area of industrial relations," Prime Minister John Howard said.

The unfair dismissal laws require companies to compensate workers who are retrenched.
'Key priority'

Treasurer Peter Costello, who Mr Howard says he will reappoint to the post, says changes to the industrial relations laws top the agenda.

"We're going to implement all of our policies, including policies that have been blocked for years and obviously policies like the unfair dismissal laws, which are restricting the creation of jobs in Australia, will be a key priority," he said.

Other policies previously blocked by opposition parties were the full sale of telecom company Telstra and liberalisation of media ownership laws.

Mr Howard says Parliament will sit for two or three weeks next month, from November 16, to begin passing measures such as paying doctors 100 per cent of the Medicare scheduled fee and increasing the private health insurance rebate for older Australians.

"We are very keen that the Parliament sit as soon as possible and we want to say to the Australian people that we respect the mandate that's been given to us," he said.

"It's a very strong, a very emphatic mandate."


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 08:18 AM

Today, Johnny publicly stated that he would not let his increased power go to his head.... :-) Oh Yeah!

Seems that Family Farce had a policy (that none of us knew about) about not selling Telstra. Could be why the Democrats & Greens got suckered into putting them higher on their preferences list - their preferences will contribute significantly to putting in Family Farce.

I forwarded the song "Updated Advance Australia Fair" to Arch Bevis - my Labour member for Brisbane - about the only Labour member who increased his vote - who replied personally

'Dear Robin,

I hope you are wrong - but after Saturday who knows?

Regards

Arch Bevis'


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 12:26 AM

So this is democracy, eh? Rule by the people.
Well, 52.6% of them anyway.

In his acceptance speech, Howard made the pseudo-statesmanly observation that he must rule for those who did not vote for him as well as for those that did.

OK, Mr. Prime Minister let's get started:
Withdraw the troops from Iraq, get those refugees into something resembling human accomodation, and make a Prime Ministerial apology to the stolen generation.

Give us a whistle when you've got that done, there's more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Oct 04 - 08:07 PM

You seem to have exported quite a few here... :-) You can have Family Farce back... :-)

It now will be quite a few weeks before the dust settles, especially in the Senate, as preferences will be needed to work out the final few seats.

The Democrats may get their Qld guy back in, 3 parties are in the race for the final two seats.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Oct 04 - 11:26 AM

Condolences, friends.

We'll try to do better in the States but we've got a whole lot of the same conservative wantabees around here.

Keep exporting good wine!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 10 Oct 04 - 10:02 AM

Australian election date - 2007

God help us


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 10 Oct 04 - 02:01 AM

Damn


Condolences Aussie friends.

..xx..e


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Oct 04 - 12:25 AM

Australians all let us rejoice,
For we have tasted greed;
Our mortgage rates mean more to us,
Than mere humanity;
Our land abounds with credit cards
And John Howard took us there;
Don't stop to count as your debts mount,
Advance Australia fair!
Don't stop to count as your debts mount,
"Advance Australia fair!"

While refugees from terror sail'd,
To trace wide oceans o'er,
To Iraq with Little John we went,
To start a bloody war.
The sick, the old have all been sold,
Our children's future care;
They're all worth nowt, so rise and shout,
Advance Australia fair!
They're all worth nowt, so rise and shout,
Advance Australia fair!

Geoff Francis & Peter Hicks


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 06:25 PM

I hope I'm alive to see the day that the Pacific Coast of North America, Australia, New Zealand and our Asian neighbors form an economic alliance separate from that old Atlantic trade route. We have it all and we don't really need their 'old boys' club. What would the U.S. and Britain be without us?

Lets shake those vestiges of colonialism. We'll have our own 'tea party'.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 06:01 PM

Put in my vote for the Greens. Went home. Watched The Sopranos all night. Only feel like talking to Mudcat friends today. Oh Dear! Joy


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 05:41 PM

brucie - "...Once again the American voters get what they deserve. But why do I have to keep getting what they deserve."

EXACTLY!

I guess thats my real interest in U.S. politics. What happens there effects all of us. An economic boycott of the U.S. may be our last resort if Bush wins again.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Helen
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 05:32 PM

Sandra in Sydney,

That is exactly what I have been thinking all night long: "how can they be so stupid, how can they believe all those lies".

And brucie, you're absolutely right. I am so tired of being at the bottom of the pile, getting kicked around by all of these pollies. I have been working as a casual/temp for the last 10 years, trying desperately to get a permanent job, with annual leave, sick pay, long service leave etc and also so that I can kick this constant stressful financial fear that sits on my back all the time due to job insecurity and loss of work. And I'm not a dole-bludger. I have a lot of experience and qualifications behind me. And I spend a lot of my waking hours searching for jobs, writing job apps, going for interviews, getting rejection letters - the cycle never ends.

I'm tired of having little johnny and his cronies in power, who only care about the rich people and who are now closely aligned with a moral-majority religious party who are going to help and support him to put the squeeze on us all to fit into a narrow-minded mould of their idea of "the right way to live". That means telling women they should be at home minding the babies, and telling unmarried women they can't have IVF (infertility) treatment, Meanwhile our health and education systems are going down the toilet at a rapid rate of knots. And little johnny is brown-nosing Dubya so that we have become a satellite of Dubya's America.

This is not Australia - not the Australia I knew where we looked after each oter and didn't do the dirty on our mates.

I'm depressed. I think I need the scotch today, not last night.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: Peace
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 03:10 PM

Years ago a very good friend of mine called me the morning Nixon won the American election to become President. My friend was quite drunk. It was about 4:00 AM. He said after a few minutes in a very clear yet slurred voice: "Bruce, it's bullshit. Once again the American voters get what they deserve. But why do I have to keep getting what they deserve."

Sorry, Aussies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Australian election date
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 02:19 PM

Oh, this does not sound good. Of course I can't figure most of it but if I'm right, this does not bode well for the U.S. election. Its as if the U.S. has all of its lackeyes firmly in place. I know that in B.C. the premier is just hoping Bush can get another four years so they can continue to rape the land and starve the poor.

Its all these little guys that prop up the U.S. regime.

d


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