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BS: GUEST posters who start fights

Peace 10 Apr 04 - 02:26 PM
Clinton Hammond 10 Apr 04 - 02:33 PM
Little Hawk 10 Apr 04 - 02:34 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 02:35 PM
Little Hawk 10 Apr 04 - 02:36 PM
Peace 10 Apr 04 - 02:39 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 02:42 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 10 Apr 04 - 02:56 PM
Ebbie 10 Apr 04 - 03:00 PM
Peace 10 Apr 04 - 04:01 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 04:06 PM
Chief Chaos 10 Apr 04 - 04:12 PM
jacqui.c 10 Apr 04 - 04:37 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 04:39 PM
Little Hawk 10 Apr 04 - 04:42 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM
Little Hawk 10 Apr 04 - 05:01 PM
Little Hawk 10 Apr 04 - 05:08 PM
Blackcatter 10 Apr 04 - 05:26 PM
GUEST,Peter from Essex 10 Apr 04 - 05:32 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 05:43 PM
Blackcatter 10 Apr 04 - 05:43 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 05:51 PM
Amos 10 Apr 04 - 05:59 PM
kendall 10 Apr 04 - 06:28 PM
GUEST,Jim Dixon 10 Apr 04 - 06:49 PM
Peace 10 Apr 04 - 07:30 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 10 Apr 04 - 07:44 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 04 - 07:59 PM
Don Firth 10 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM
Once Famous 10 Apr 04 - 08:16 PM
Jeri 10 Apr 04 - 11:14 PM
Don Firth 11 Apr 04 - 01:36 AM
kendall 11 Apr 04 - 07:36 AM
Rapparee 11 Apr 04 - 10:13 AM
Bobert 11 Apr 04 - 11:08 AM
Little Hawk 11 Apr 04 - 11:48 AM
kendall 11 Apr 04 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,heric 11 Apr 04 - 02:45 PM
GUEST,heric 11 Apr 04 - 02:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Apr 04 - 03:46 PM
Peace 11 Apr 04 - 04:28 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Apr 04 - 04:50 PM
GUEST 11 Apr 04 - 05:54 PM
Chief Chaos 11 Apr 04 - 05:55 PM
Peace 11 Apr 04 - 06:23 PM
Little Hawk 11 Apr 04 - 06:45 PM
Doug Chadwick 11 Apr 04 - 07:37 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM
M.Ted 11 Apr 04 - 11:02 PM
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Subject: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:26 PM

The subject of GUEST posters who start fights, get insulting, stuff like that: Maybe there is an answer that doesn't involve censorship at the 'managerial' level, one that doesn't involve Joe, Max and Jeff.

When GUESTS post with a question to do with music, folklore, whatever, provide the answer. When they start threads, regardless of how provocative, IGNORE the threads. This would do one of two things:

1) Work
2) Not work

We got nothin' to lose by trying it out. Post NO responses to GUESTS without cookies. That's that. Wanna give it a try?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:33 PM

How many times is someone gona sing this song?

I'd rather hear Whiskey In The Jar again...

Any MB worth it's salt is well moderated... not left to float in it's own cr@p....


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:34 PM

Well, you'll never get everyone onside on that, Bruce. I suspect that some of the more persistently negative Guests are disgruntled former members of this forum (one or two individuals particularly come to mind). Bearing a grudge against this place, they are strongly motivated to come here frequently and raise shit anonymously...in order to "get even" or indulge in feelings of superiority. That's typical of a wounded ego. It happens. Doesn't worry me too much.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:35 PM

brucie is still relatively new here, and he thinks someone ought to intervene when his side is losing the debate.

Wah wah wah, brucie. Why not quit your baby whining, and sharpen your pencil. Try debating like an adult.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:36 PM

My, my. We've got a real sense of grievance here, don't we?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:39 PM

My question was: do we want to give it a try? Like chicken soup: maybe won't help, but it can't hurt.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:42 PM

Considering the only problem here is you and brucie starting a bash the anon guest thread, because I'm kicking your ass in debates in a couple other threads?

The two of you seem to share a couple of negative personality traits. The one in particular the two of you share is attempting to jump into threads and trivializing serious discussions by making statements you hope will get you noticed for being funny, witty, and clever.

You aren't any of those things, just boors. The fact that the two of you will stoop to the level of a bash the anon guest thread proves that.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:56 PM

I'm perfectly happy to mix it with guests if they make debatable points. What's the problem, apart from some harmless confusion sorting one from another? Posting as an anonymous guest is only one step removed from posting under a pseudonym, as I did for a few years and as others still do (and are welcome to do).


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 03:00 PM

brucie, if you do a search, you'll find the current crop is mild. There was a time a year or two ago when it was virulent. I can live with this.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:01 PM

Have another idea that I'll try out. We'll see. Thanks for the input.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:06 PM

Well brucie, you've already tried the tactic of impersonating the anonymous guest. That's been tried before too. Then, you tried making this appeal to the forum at large, to get them to help you gang up on the anon guest. That one has been tried a million times by others as well.

How about you try this for a tactic: grow up, and learn to check your ego at the door before entering into online chat forums to disrupt other people's serious conversations with your lame "witty" banter. It is rude. The fact that the someone who calls you out on it isn't the issue, your rudeness is.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:12 PM

Actually I like the idea that the chat rooms have. The ones I have seen have a little button the allows you to "ignore" anyone you choose by selecting their name. Put in "guest" with no other monicker and voila you get blank space where they posted. I tend to read the first few sentences of their posts. If they don't make it through a few without insulting the poster instead of actually debating then I might read more. Mostly I self edit. It's a shame, I might miss some good points but I don't need to learn from anyone who wants to use bullying tactics while posting.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:37 PM

I've started my own tactic with this type. I just ignore them. Don't rise to the bait. This works very well with children and I can't see that it shouldn't work just as well with adults who behave in a similar manner. As I've said before - sometimes a post of that type gives pause to look at my own point of view and to check on its validity so can be of use but if it looks as if someone is just trying to yank my chain then why give them the satisfaction of a reply?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:39 PM

Chief Chaos, Mudcat members have long had the ability to filter out guest postings. That isn't the problem here. The problem is, they don't like that as a solution to them getting pissed off at guests.

They would prefer being able to line people up on "their" side, and suck people into their petty tantrums, when an anon guest gets the better of them in a thread, and they come off looking foolish. What they really want is revenge.

If what they were interested in was participating in forums without getting their blood pressure up (which is what filters allow you to do--filter out the people you find unpleasant to deal with, which is the mature way of doing things online), they would just use the damn filters.

Obviously, they want to start something, not end it. Otherwise they wouldn't start these sorts of ridiculous threads, trying to get everybody on their band wagon.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:42 PM

I've never really felt the need to filter out anything on this forum.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM

Or as jacquic suggests, they could ignore the posters they don't like too. That would also be a mature response.

But then, these sorts of threads never get started by mature people...


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:01 PM

Could you name the mature people on the forum, so we know whose postings we should give our attention to in the future?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:08 PM

I think Clinton Hammond, for example, is very mature, although he's frequently wrong and stubborn as hell...but I like him. There's a start, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Blackcatter
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:26 PM

Sorry Brucie - I would tend to agree with you but I ignore the idiot GUESTS only about 80% of the time. As was mentioned, this has been a topic of discussion forever and all it does is give the idiot GUESTS more ammunition.

By the way - my theory is that GUESTS are like shit - absolutely needed in life, but not particularly useful, not nice to deal with, and not something you want around the house.

Most of them disappear after awhile, which is nice because there's always new ones with other points of view that are just as stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:32 PM

One of life's great mysteries is why all the people who have a serious problem about sharing a board with guests persist in posting on a board that admits guest posts. There are plenty that don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:43 PM

Looks like it's back to the enlightenment drawing board for Little Hawk. Again.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Blackcatter
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:43 PM

Hey Peter,

We post here because of the Mudcat - not the GUESTS. And nearly all of us agree that the GUEST concept is good and useful - it's just abused by people.

The Mudcat is a unique site - something very unusual in an internet where website after website "cuts and pastes" other people's works and don't consider it stealing.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:51 PM

Ah Blackcatter, guests ARE part of Mudcat. And don't forget, membership is used by plenty of posters here too--especially as a means of engaging in their favorite sport of guest flaming. That is why so many of them stay here. They get positive feedback from enough of the membership for a behavior that isn't tolerated in most member only forums.

And as to the cut and paste thing, it is a phenomenon all over the net.

Which means Mudcat isn't quite as unique as most here seem to think it is. It really isn't any different than any other chat forums, email lists, or newsgroups with folk music as the organizing principle.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Amos
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 05:59 PM

Well, sweetie, as long as we are being consdescending, superior and mysterious, folkmusic may be a topic, but it sure is not any kind of organizing principle,. Wlel, maybe like "you do your thing and I'll do my thing and nobody do anything in the middle" is an organizing principle!!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: kendall
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 06:28 PM

One person can not "Start" a fight. A fight only happens when another reacts.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 06:49 PM

From Mudcat FAQ – Newcomer's Guide:
    I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it many times more: the best way to deal with both flamers and trolls is to ignore them. Give them silence, and they'll go away. They feed on attention - don't give it to them.
Experience has shown this over and over again. The old-timers here have gotten tired of repeating it. But there will always be newcomers who don't know the drill, and will engage in never-ending debates with trolls. The advice is right there in the Newcomer's Guide, but the problem is getting people to read it. Maybe they everyone needs to have their own painful experience before this advice begins to make sense to them.

However, not everyone without a cookie is a troll.

A better rule is Don't respond to anyone who makes you angry. Apply this rule to old-timers as well as guests.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 07:30 PM

Oh, GUEST, you are hearing the voices again. And you're listening to them. You poor guy. Sooo much anger. Rejected are you? The rage when I suggested you be ignored. Oh. Terrible. Bottle fed, huh? Bye for now.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 07:44 PM

Don't sweat the guests. When you read most of their rants, they turn rude and start insulting others. No real discussions. They only listen to their own voice and then ridicule others. We've all seen cowards like this in real life- they throw a rock and run. Makes them feel important. They are having a laugh and for a brief moment their issues disappear. You can almost see that they are social outcasts, loners, unable to have relationship, usually suffering from anxiety over a small penis or something.   When people start calling them out they begin to whine about how they are persecuted (as witnessed in several threads).   Let them play. Most of them will be back in school on Monday and get picked on in gym class.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 07:59 PM

"A better rule is Don't respond to anyone who makes you angry. Apply this rule to old-timers as well as guests."

I agree Jim, that is the most sensible thing to do. There is good reason why it is on nearly every netiquette list I've come across on the web. Thanks for saying it most succinctly.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM

Major Cosmic Mystery:   Why are there so many more horses' asses than there are horses?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 08:16 PM

I'll dismiss Don Firth's silly response above as just a tired old statement from a tired old man.

Now, as one who has recently come from guest status to member status, I really find no difference in how I deal with some here. There are members here who are smart and informative and there are others who think they are, but are not.

I always posted as Guest, Martin Gibson but found a few douche bags here who I so infuriated and were so lame in dealing with my detection and exposure of their bullshit, that the only defense they had was to attack me by posing as me. Hence, the emergence of Martin Gibson, Mudcat member.

People who post just as "Guest" post empty words because their empty identity has absolutely no impact. Who cares what you say. You are nameless and therefore, souless.

Hats off to posters like Brucie and Little Hawk who tell it like it is and don't have their shorts in a big clump up their ass like some others!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 11:14 PM

Some people like their shorts in a big clump. They have as much right to enjoy themselves as the clump-free crowd. No one gets involved in the nastiness repeatedly who doesn't enjoy it. Their choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 01:36 AM

Like I say. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: kendall
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 07:36 AM

Oh yeah? well, your mother smokes corn silk and your father was a hamster.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 10:13 AM

Kendall, how dare you insult my father?! Of course he was a hamster, but you make that sound like a bad thing, something socially reprehesible.

Step outside and we'll settle this like men -- you bring the beer!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 11:08 AM

Oh geeze, another GUEST thread...

Okay, fir the ump-teenth time, I like GUEST's. In a way, most folks here are GUEST's since very few actually use their real names.

I think what is important is the content of the posts. I find a lot of real meat and potatos in most of the GUEST posts. Sure, some of the stuff is rude but in no greater porportion than that of the registered folks...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 11:48 AM

This subject never fails to entertain me. It's a dead horse that has been beaten so many times that it's starting to hit back!

Meanwhile, the quest for enlightenment goes on... :-)

"You cannot see the World until you no longer see yourself."

A great Taoist teacher said that.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: kendall
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 11:51 AM

Ok, Rap, and if I'm late, start without me.

I also like guests, as long as they are house broken


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 02:45 PM

"You cannot see the World until you no longer see yourself."

So, like, that's like Dorothy clicking her heels? There's the source of subliminal power in that flick!

heric
(almost there :) )


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 02:48 PM

Which reminds me of a funny thing I saw on Lizzie McGuire. David Carradine guest starred as an aged Shaolin teacher. The trick to getting the pebble is you slap his hand from underneath, then grab it up high.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 03:46 PM

Not so easy is it brucie? You start the thread saying don't respond to the nameless GUESTs, and a few posts in, and you are doing just that.

It'd be much better if we could resolve to leave them alone, because one way another they do damage the place, largely by the way the issue can throw a thread off it's tracks. But I can't see it happening consistently, because once anyone starts getting drawn in to respond to a nameless Guest, others get drawn into the conversation too. What makes it more complicated is that in among the ,ass of wasters, every now and then a nameless GUEST makes a post that seems constructive, or raises a point that no one else has.

But one thing - when discussing this it's a mistake to use the tern GUEST for short, when what you mean is "nameless Guest" - posting as a GUEST with a handle is no problems to anyone, and no one ever objects to it. It's not a question of anonymity - in fact most Mudcatters are anonymous. The problem is one of confusion and lack of continuity, so if we get drawn into discussing with a nameless GUEST we don't know if it's the same person two posts running. (And if people start talking about GUESTs in this context you can be sure someone is launch the canard that there is something against GUESTs as such, and newcomers can even be taken in by that one for a bit.)

I suppose there must be some kind of reason underlying this practice - when it's come up, the answers always seem to be in terms of anonymity, which are cleanly nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Which rather implies that the reason people do it is because they get a kick out of the notion that it might annoy other people. I'd have thought knocking on doors and running away would be more fun, but maybe they do that as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 04:28 PM

Mc G of H,

Thank you for being kind enough to show your concern. Always nice to encounter my conscience. However, I decided to go against my own suggestion which was shot down by a few people and try to be as 'fuck you and in yer face' as the GUEST. He is a chicken shit. So, why should I try to be nice to anyone who doesn't have the balls to argue under his own name? He's a failed artsy type witrh a grudge against people who don't take all his issues as seriously as he feels they should be taken. So, thanks, but no thanks.

Bruce M


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 04:50 PM

See, brucie, you've built up a picture of the person, as if you actually knew anything at all about them. But you don't even know it's a "he", for example; you don't know whether the three posts by "GUEST" in this thread are all the same person, or two people, or three. And you don't know if there really is someone out there who, as you suggest, actually cares about stuff like not being taken seriously, or if there is just some joker with a warped snse of what is fun. I'd suspect more likely the latter.

It's not worth falling into the trap of providing any kind of emotional response. It's a game, and an angry response is a kind of score. "Like shooting fish in a barrel" was the way one nameless GUEST used to put it, gleefully commenting on the way that he or she had managed to rattle some cages successfully. Don't feed them.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 05:54 PM

but i like food...


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 05:55 PM

Guest Heric,

When it came time for my pebble test I kicked the old know it all in the balls and picked the pebble from his hand as he lay gasping on the ground. There's more than one way to skin the master!


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Peace
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 06:23 PM

True, Mc G of H. However, this one IS a he. But, I will let it go. Thanks.. BM


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 06:45 PM

If he was a gifted master your attempted kick to his balls would land you flat on your back, Chief, with the wind knocked out of you. Those disciplines are based on using people's own misguided aggressiveness against them, until they smarten up and stop attacking others.

But I realize you wuz just kiddin' around... :-)

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 07:37 PM

McGrath

- posting as a GUEST with a handle is no problem to anyone, and no one ever objects to it.

Dealing with a series of anonymous GUESTS may be confusing and require considerable effort to keep the posts in context but I see it as no more than rudeness on their part.

"GUEST with a handle" may help to keep track of things but it doesn't equate to being a member. Members have unique Mudcat names, even if they are pseudonyms. Martin Gibson became a member precisely because he had a problem with others usurping his "GUEST with a handle". This type of abuse of privilege is far worse than the anonymous GUEST. It is, at best, mischievous but if, as seems possible, it is done by a member who has logged out then it is despicable.

Another problem is multi-posting from one person using lots of different GUEST handles so that an argument appears to have greater weight due to its breadth of support.

Polite and honest contributors who make reasoned arguments or provide useful information should be welcomed, whatever they want to call themselves. The mis-use of "GUEST with a handle" is fraudulent and lets Mudcat down badly.




Doug C


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM

Posting as a Guest with a handle can mean a problem of this sort, for the person involved, but not for other people. There are various reasons people sometimes have to do it this way, because the computer they are using is set up so as not to allow cookies.

And there are newcomers who feel uneasy becoming a member because they've picked up a tendency to be cautious from experience elsewhere in the net, where it is very sensible sometimes to avoid giving personal details to sites you aren't sure about.

But people who come in as GUESTs, but who use a handle (their own handle) are not a problem per se (though of course people, including members, can use this facility to post in ways that do cause upsets.)

Nameless GUESTs on the other hand do tend to cause a kind of problem, by virtue of their namelessness, even when their posts are quite harmless.

Posting in someone else's name is always wrong. In a sense, that is one reason why posting as nameless GUEST is a bad idea, because it involves posting in the "same name" as all the other nameless GUESTSA. Just click on GUEST at the head of some nameless GUEST's post, and see what I mean when the list of all the previous posts by nameless GUESTs scrolls up on the screen.


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Subject: RE: BS: GUEST posters who start fights
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 11:02 PM

It is possible the powers that be to make it:

1) impossible for anyone to post without a handle
2) impossible for anyone to post without being a member
3)impossible to post without using a valid e-mail address

There are other forums that use these devices, but, like it or not, Mudcat does not--that means that some people are going to post anonymously, and you must learn to deal with it the best way you can.

Remember also that, anonymous or not, people tend to say what they want, whether in reply to something, or just out of the blue--you must learn to deal with this in the best way you can, as well.

If it helps at all, you may think about anonymous guest posts as simply being "comments posted without attribution"--


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