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Any glottal stops down your way?

Peace 14 Mar 04 - 07:40 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Mar 04 - 07:30 PM
Stephen R. 14 Mar 04 - 07:25 PM
GUEST,Clint Keller 14 Mar 04 - 07:24 PM
KateG 14 Mar 04 - 06:55 PM
Snuffy 14 Mar 04 - 06:42 PM
GUEST 14 Mar 04 - 06:31 PM
Peace 14 Mar 04 - 06:21 PM
Jeri 14 Mar 04 - 06:19 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Mar 04 - 06:18 PM
Peace 14 Mar 04 - 06:18 PM
Amos 14 Mar 04 - 06:13 PM
Bill D 14 Mar 04 - 06:11 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Mar 04 - 06:07 PM
Uncle_DaveO 14 Mar 04 - 05:50 PM
Peace 14 Mar 04 - 05:46 PM
Johnny in OKC 14 Mar 04 - 05:39 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Mar 04 - 05:24 PM
GUEST 14 Mar 04 - 05:15 PM
Peace 14 Mar 04 - 05:11 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Mar 04 - 04:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 07:40 PM

GUEST:

Pronounce the word AUK. That K on the end causes the throat to close. Ya can hear the sound in the Scottish loCH. In Canada, we'd say it like loCK, and the throat doesn't fully close. A full glottal stop makes it sound like someone's about to spit from somewhere inside the throat..


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 07:30 PM

"'e's go-a lo-a bo-al" meaning "I admire his nerve"

Perhaps they could use the technique in a sequel to Windtalkers.


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Stephen R.
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 07:25 PM

That's why Norwegians and Swedes say that Danish is not a language, it's a disease of the throat.

As has already been pointed out in this list, the glo''al stop is a regular consonant in Hawai'ian, where it replaces an earlier _k_ (in the western Pacific they say Havaiki), while the present _k_ replaces earlier _t_--a Great Consonant Shift. And it occurs in Semitic languages such as Arabic and Hebrew. There are also languages with glottalized consonants--the consonant is separated from the following vowel by a glottal closure; these are found in Georgian and Amharic, for example.

Several have pointed out that the omission of certain consonants in Spanish is at all the same as their replacement, in some varieties of Scots, British English, and American English ('li'le me'al ke'al', for example). In Puerto Rican and Cuban Spanish _s_ is dropped in some positions; _those two men' is _eto dombre_. And the same dialect is lambdacist, leading to the probably apocryphal notice posted on an office door: Fabol de dejal la yabe en la ofisina. Or: La balca etang en la mal. But any discussion of Spanish here is thread creep.

Stephen


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 07:24 PM

My late Uncle Willie from West Rutland, Vermont was prone to glottal stops: bo'le for bottle. His mother pronounced both vowels in "peas" and "beans," almost "pee-uhs" and "beeuhns."

clint

(Uncle by marriage, that is.)


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: KateG
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:55 PM

Danish is full of them. It's why I could never learn to speak it and had great difficulty understanding it, even though I can read it passibly having studied other Scandinavian languages.


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Snuffy
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:42 PM

Coming from just south of Manchester (UK), where the glottal stop is quite prevalent, I was amazed to find that 40 miles away it was unknown in Scouse (Liverpool dialect), and the local kids could not produce one.

Where I would say Grea' they would say Greatzz


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:31 PM

could Q maybe give some examples for dafties like me to learn from ? thanks


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:21 PM

This is the fastest-growing thread I've seen on the 'cat.


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:19 PM

I sang "Pat Murphy of Meagher's Brigade"/"Song of the Splintered Shilellagh" earlier today (thanks to Jed Marum and Dan Milner), and it seems the correct pronunciation of "Meagher" has a glo'al stop in it. 'Mah - er'. If I'm wrong, somebo'y please tell me!

It's qui'e common in places I've been in the US, and usually considered to be a bad habi'. It happens with 't' a lot: as I mentioned, 'glo'al', li'le, entertainmen', ballo'. When i' happens at the end of words (as in the last two), I hardly notice i' - probably because I'm guilty. I think perhaps when I was younger, I made an unconscious judgement that actually pronouncing 't's was too much work and sounded twinky. Now, I have grea' respect for those who do.


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:18 PM

Leaving out a letter, as the Spanish often do, particularly in the south, is not glottal.
Seville, in Seville, is pronounced S'via, almost sounding like one syllable; but the glottis is not closed.


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:18 PM

Not a glottal, but. . .

My English grandmother said buTTer, and the TT was clear. Canadians say buDDer, but the DD is somewhat softer. The spoken language here takes the 'lazy' way. However, I wouldn't care to say 'lazy' is easier, although it usually is.


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Amos
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:13 PM

I was struck by their use in Scots dialects when in Edinborough and found I could accomodate them easily enough. "Wa'err" and buh'err".

A


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:11 PM

they sure make it puzzling for non-locals to make out some words!

I can, with a little concentration, DO a glottal stop and approximate that sound. I sorta wish those to whom glottal stops are normal could avoid one long enough to say "Matalan" for me, and save getting out pencil & paper. (My wife picks up dialects and linguistic varitation MUCH faster than I do.)


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 06:07 PM

The remark about 'Bronxese' reminded me of something I have heard in street English in London; 'din't' for didn't. Also heard on 'eastender' programs in British-produced TV. It sounds like a glottal stop is inserted, but I am uncertain as to whether this meets the definition.
I doubt that a true glottal stop is present in speakers of the Bronx tongue.

"Handbook of Phonetics," Sweet, 1877: "The most familiar example of this 'glottal catch' is an ordinary cough."

The Hebrew Q represents a glottal K, taken neither in English, Greek, nor Latin. OED.


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 05:50 PM

And in Bronxese

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 05:46 PM

In Hebrew, too.


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Johnny in OKC
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 05:39 PM

Glottal stop is common and proper in Arabic.
Love, Johnny


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 05:24 PM

The glottal stop is strong in some of my favorite music, that of Hawai'i (proper spelling, showing the glottal stop).

Tha absence of a letter, such as a missing 'd' in Colorado, is not the result of closure of the glottis, therefore not a glottal stop.


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 05:15 PM

I THINK so ! In Spain, particularly in Andalucia the d is often ommitted e.g.
El Colorado is pronounced El Colora'o

As a foreigner if I want to sound like one of 'em I drop the D quite a lot.


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Subject: RE: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 05:11 PM

None of which I'm aware in western Canada. I'll think on it. The great consonant shift worked here. The glotals went. We have chosen the 'lazy' way to say words, and that extends to fricatives, plosives and stops.

BM


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Subject: Any glottal stops down your way?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 04:56 PM

For sone bizarre reason I started thinking about glottal stops, and wondering where they crop up in other parts of the world. It started because I was going to buy something at a shop called "Matalan", and it occurred to me that most people round Harlow would be likel;y to call it "Ma'a-lan".

I looked up a definition: "A glottal stop is a speech sound articulated by a momentary, complete closing of the glottis in the back of the throat. Glottal stops occur in many languages and usually pattern as consonants."

Which makes it all sound very difficult, and I started speculating whether people in places where they don't use them find hard or not. Maybe they are like the Xhosa clicks which most people who don't speak Xhosa find impossible to articulate.

So where are they a normal part of daily language, and where aren't they? The Mudcat is about the only place you could ask a daft question like that and hope to get at least some real answers.


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