mudcat.org: Turn down the volume!
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4]


Turn down the volume!

GUEST,Tunesmith 29 Feb 04 - 03:20 PM
Clinton Hammond 29 Feb 04 - 03:46 PM
dick greenhaus 29 Feb 04 - 05:45 PM
GUEST 29 Feb 04 - 05:57 PM
GUEST,leeneia 29 Feb 04 - 06:22 PM
Joe_F 29 Feb 04 - 09:12 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 29 Feb 04 - 10:08 PM
GUEST, Hamish 01 Mar 04 - 08:16 AM
Mr Red 01 Mar 04 - 09:11 AM
Rapparee 01 Mar 04 - 09:31 AM
Strick 01 Mar 04 - 09:36 AM
Roger the Skiffler 01 Mar 04 - 09:40 AM
Richard Bridge 01 Mar 04 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,eliza c 01 Mar 04 - 10:01 AM
GUEST,JOHN OF ELSIE`S BAND 01 Mar 04 - 10:24 AM
Rapparee 01 Mar 04 - 01:04 PM
GUEST 01 Mar 04 - 01:10 PM
Wesley S 01 Mar 04 - 01:17 PM
Richard Bridge 01 Mar 04 - 04:41 PM
GUEST,eliza c 01 Mar 04 - 05:22 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Mar 04 - 06:54 PM
alanabit 02 Mar 04 - 03:05 AM
Roger the Skiffler 02 Mar 04 - 03:51 AM
sledge 02 Mar 04 - 04:14 AM
GUEST,guest 03 Mar 04 - 05:36 AM
GUEST,Hugh Jampton 03 Mar 04 - 10:36 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 03 Mar 04 - 11:13 AM
GLoux 03 Mar 04 - 11:22 AM
Mooh 04 Mar 04 - 12:26 AM
Escamillo 04 Mar 04 - 01:33 AM
Mudlark 04 Mar 04 - 02:37 AM
GUEST,Guest 04 Mar 04 - 03:09 AM
Joybell 04 Mar 04 - 06:07 PM
Escamillo 05 Mar 04 - 02:04 AM
Dave Bryant 05 Mar 04 - 10:57 AM
mooman 05 Mar 04 - 11:10 AM
GUEST,Keef 05 Mar 04 - 04:42 PM
The Fooles Troupe 05 Mar 04 - 04:50 PM
GUEST,Guest 05 Mar 04 - 05:37 PM
Magic Gillian 05 Mar 04 - 06:38 PM
Liz the Squeak 05 Mar 04 - 11:32 PM
cobber 06 Mar 04 - 01:26 AM
LadyJean 06 Mar 04 - 01:37 AM
GUEST 24 May 05 - 11:54 AM
kendall 24 May 05 - 12:00 PM
Charmion 24 May 05 - 01:01 PM
kendall 24 May 05 - 01:13 PM
Clinton Hammond 24 May 05 - 01:15 PM
GUEST 24 May 05 - 01:34 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 24 May 05 - 01:41 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 03:20 PM

Many amplified folk band these days play at an unhealthy volume. I walked out of a Fairports show because it was too loud. I bet most of that band suffer from tinitus ( or whatever it's called ). A lot of folk bands, today, play much louder that rock bands from the early sixties. It's not the way to go!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 03:46 PM

Turn it UP!!!!

Or turn it off...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 05:45 PM

Fairport doesn't suffer. They became deaf years ago.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 05:57 PM

Nice to have a venue where you can still play loud music. Most London venues would get the sound kit confiscated at half time if bands still played at 70s volumes.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 06:22 PM

I'm with you, Tunesmith! Many gigs are too loud. I always carry hearing protection. Pathetic, isn't it?

It's a shame that a sound person doesn't have a decibel meter on the board to warn when the sound is dangerously loud.

Last night I went to hear a harp and guitar duo. My companion wanted to sit near the front so she could watch the harper's hands. However, this put us so near that speakers that I had to move. Not only was the sound loud, but is also seemed so artificial that I began to wonder if they were faking it. Later I moved to the back of the house and decided no, it was a live performance.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Joe_F
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 09:12 PM

Many folk venues are so small that there is no need for amplification at all, and it is nothing but a nuisance. I have repeatedly had the experience of being able to understand only about half the words in a song coming thru the sound system, and then, when the performer turned away from the microphone to converse with someone on the stage, being able to understand him or her perfectly.

Doctors have a maxim, "Primum non nocere", which may be freely translated, "First of all, don't make it worse." God knows the doctors need it, and the politicians even more, but the people who sit at those bloody consoles might also do well to inscribe it on the panel.

Turn that damn thing off!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 10:08 PM

Ah, the pleasure of bluegrass!

Just put that lead instrument right up to the microphone.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST, Hamish
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 08:16 AM

I know it's a cumulative thing, so earlier Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple gigs did some of the damage, but the gig which made my tinitus permanent was so-called folkies The Oyster Band. :^(


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 09:11 AM

I wear ear plugs to ceilidhs these days. The quietest ceilidh band I know are Captain Swing - as the name suggests they are about swing not oumph - very enjoyable non-the-less.

Tickled Pink are a band I would avoid even if it was in my own town. Their attitude is if you don't want volume don't book us. Falling on deaf ears is probably about the size of it. They are too fast to dance to, the human physique has not changed with technology, gravity hasn't altered, only fashion has any degree of freedom.

The amazing thing is the Simon Care Trio play almost archetypical trad and at a volume that you can tolerate. And a very enjoyable bop. Simon is in both.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 09:31 AM

I wonder if the volume wouldn't be necessary if the audience actually listened to the music, as I do.

Turn it down!

Many churches disguise a bad organist with high amplification. Far too many groups seem to do the same about their bad music.

Turn it down!

Noise hides and prevents communication.

Turn it down!

If you want to feel the vibrations in your guts, visit an airport or run a jackhammer.

Turn it down!

Lots of times you need some amplification, but it needn't be so loud that those in passing aircraft are rendered sterile and deaf.

Turn it down!

A competent person on the sound board can enhance a concert.

Turn it down!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Strick
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 09:36 AM

I'm going to a large Celtic Festival next weekend. The last time we went it was raining as always this time of year, and we couldn't stand to be in the tents where the bands were playing because the sound was too loud. We went out and bought ear plugs and always keep several sets in our car for emergencies like this. Only way we can enjoy being there at all.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 09:40 AM

I put my left ear tinnitus down to too many years listening to loud jazz bands in small clubs ( I think Count Basie Band in the Opposite Lock B'ham and the Maynard Ferguson Orch. at the 100 Club London, neither club much more than 20 feet wide, probably most guilty- but worth it)but the electric blues bands my club likes to book, rather than the acoustic blues I prefer, seem to combine instrumental volume (usually the bass guitar) with inaudible lyrics and announcements. As the regular "old git in the corner", the club sound man usually checks with me that the volume is acceptable!

RtS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 09:42 AM

I'd rather both play and listen with no amps at all, but if I am listening to electric music then I do like it loud. However it is probably less important for folk-type music than for (say) death metal or techno.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 10:01 AM

Turn it up! And then turn it down again!
I like both. And while I'm sure going to an airport or listening to jackhammers may be loud, they are not musical experiences. Loud music is loud music, it has its' own value. Different strokes...personally, my left-ear partial deafness is from the proximity of my violin to my left ear, acoustic as owt. Acoustic as ouch, even!
x ec


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,JOHN OF ELSIE`S BAND
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 10:24 AM

Eliza C.,
          I went to your concert in Sevenoaks where the sound system had been cranked up too much and it was so unbalanced that J.Spiers was mostly inaudible. I got the impression that you tried to get adjustments during the show but to little avail.
John.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 01:04 PM

My left ear deafness (10% loss, not much really) is due to a grenade simulator (giant firecracker) going off much to close to me during army training. Even so, nearly all music is better heard with the amps cranked DOWN.

Whatever happened to good acoustics, anyway?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 01:10 PM

We've been thanked many a time for keeping the volume to a reasonable level. Even when playing noisy bars, I usually find that turning up means the talkers just start shouting at each other. Often turning down means that reduce the volume of their chatter in sympathy!

The role of a PA in the overall sound is often overlooked. I was chuffed to little meat balls to have an audient say "that guitar has a wonderful tone" at Julie's last gig. It does, but the fact that it still had after its journey through the desk means I did my job right.

Sorry, been waiting days for a chance to tell someone about that ...

All the best
John Robinson
http://www.JulieEllison.co.uk


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 01:17 PM

I hate to ask this but how many good sound people are out there ? If most of these folks make their money running the board a rock concerts then that's what your going to get. Rock concert volume.

Just because you can turn it up to 11 doesn't mean that you should.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 04:41 PM

John is right, getting the sound of each instrument right is a challenge.

If I have time in soundcheck, I like to get each member of the band to come out front at least twice (lead length permitting) and first to achieve that as I fade his volume up and down the quality of sound of his instrument is the same - from not in the PA at all, to really quite loud - just louder and softer. If he agrees, then I have HIS sound. Of course he may want something everybody else hates(!!). That's quite common with metal guitarists who want to scoop all the mid out, and then when the band plays, the pitch of what the guitar is playing is lost. You can get the same with violin players who sometimes seem to want a scratchier edgier sound on their instruments than anyone else. Then when all are set I ask the band to play a song they know well, and take it in turns to come out front, and see if they hear the bits they want to hear. The drummer usually loses out, because he is stuck behind his kit, and keyboards are a problem too.

Two problems then arise (apart from each member of the band wants to be a bit louder than the rest of the band want him). First if there is a sound limiter it starts going off and you are trying to figure what to turn down (I have met sound limiters that my daughter can set off without an amplifier, she has a big voice). Second people arrive and change the acoustics completely so all the time you have spent was wasted as you have to start changing the curve on the EQ and turn it up bit by bit as people absorb sound, and absorb treble more than bass.

Then you get the helpful audience. Some want to feel the bass guitar rather than hear it. Others the opposite. Some like the kick and snare to stand out, others want the tom rolls, and "mood" off the floor tom. Some want the singer right out front (so you are left with a "band in a box" behind them), and others want the voice back in with the rest of the musicians.

At least one band I regularly do sound for always tells me "We want a really horrible wall of shit".

At the end of the process, if I can hear each instrument and voice distinctly, and walk round the room and still hear each intrument and voice distinctly all round it, then it's probably about right. Until someone turns his or her stage amp up or down, or moves too close to a monitor so I'm frantically trying to figure out what has sudenly started to feed back and it all turns into guesswork - or the guitarist starts an effect that sounds like feedback but isn't (or hits a resonance so that what sounds like the effect is feedback, and I'm wondering when he is going to turn it off and the rest of the band are wondering when I am going to fix it...)

It's a bit like sonar. If you are getting pinged from every direction it's probably about right. When you get more pings from a particular direction, you may need to alter course!

And remember. If it sounds brilliant it's a good band. If it sounds dreadful it's the fault of the soundman.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 05:22 PM

John of Elsie's band, hi. Yeah, that gig was a bit of a nightmare. I think the problem is not loud or soft, but appropriateness (propriety?) and clarity. Went to a gig in Edinburgh last week in one of the underground arches, and the band that I've seen a million times with people dancing up front were trapped in one half of the arch on their own while the audience stood about ten feet away in the other half, because the amps turned to their usual volume were just too painful to be near. Couldn't hear, could only feel pain. On the other hand, Steve Earle at the House of Blues in Los Angeles, that was the loudest gig I have ever been to, and I have to say that the physical sensation was something in itself. I couldn't hear a word, but was definitely rocked!! It's like with all music, it's totally subjective and a different experience depending on what mood you're in when it's encountered.
x e


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 06:54 PM

Roger the Skiffler,

with people like you as the resident old '(self acknowledged) deaf in one ear old git in the corner' being the one setting the volume, I am bemused if this could be the root cause of excessive volume levels...   :-)

I once watched a local 4 string (acoustic - no amp) banjo player called Robbie Robinson control a noisy room. They were all chatting rather loudly, he started at a fair volume, stayed there, then gradually got quieter, then boom! up to normal volume! The audience shut up, every head snapped round to look at him... :-)


Robin


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 03:05 AM

I agree that skilfull handling can quieten a rooom. There can be a problem when you have a table of persistent chatterers who are not interested in you from the start. They make it impossible for the next table to hear, so they start chattering too and so it goes on. In my heart, I am with Rapaire. However, we live in a culture where many people do not like the idea of active listening. That it why they are so indifferent - or even downright rude to those who do. I prefer to play unamplified or at low amplification. However, at the end of the day, I want all those who came to listen to me to be able to do so. I'll turn up the volume if that's what I have to do.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 03:51 AM

OK, Robin, I confess- it's all MY fault!
Actually, I have warned Steve ( the in-house sound guy)I'm not a good reference point, but if I think it's too loud, it probably is....mind you, I've seen stickers saying: "If it's too loud, you're too old"...

RtS
(must be getting too old...)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: sledge
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 04:14 AM

Tunesmith,

Fairport are folk-rock, rock should be loud, if it was loud no problem.

Sledge


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 05:36 AM

I have to agree that no amplification at all is the best sound that can be achieved and heard by the 10 people in the immediate area, but I also present the altenate view.
As the sound engineer in our folk club, I have to agree (my experience is) that there are very few good acoustic soundmen out there. There is no money in it - so you tend to get a lot of rock 'n roll kids. I learned from one of the best acoustic men and (dammit!) he is still the best. I think the problem is that too few people know the sound frequencies (hertz) that acoustic instruments and the human voice produce and adjust the equalization (EQ or Bass-mid-treble) settings on each channel of the mixing console to get the best sound possible.
A room you can get for free to hold your club meetings may not be the best space for sound. A good engineer can make it better with the use of EQ and Sound Processors (e.g. Reverberation). Not everyone's natural singing voice is perfect and cannot be enhanced by a slight boost in certain frequency ranges. That is what soundmen do. They enhance what you have to make it sound better.   
I have played folk and rock and done sound for all kinds of groups for 20 years. I have owned a fine set of ear-protecting plugs (They reduce the sound without reducing sound quality) for about the same length of time. I still have mild tinnitus from my rock days, when I was BULLET-PROOF, standing next to the drum cymbals and my own 2 x 15" LAB Bass amp!
Our room is set up for 40-60 people towards the front of the stage but will accomodate 200 at a push. Rather than having the mains in front try to push sound all the way to the back of the room, I use another set of mains halfway along the room with a delay of a few microseconds to match the front mains. Each set of mains speakers have separate amplifiers and 31-band EQs.
I have a Peavey digital EQ unit which has a built-in audio analyser which sends out "pink noise" through the mains into a flat-EQ microphone plugged into the unit to calculate the best EQ setting for the room. You can do two or three passes (each takes about 5 minutes) in different parts of the room and it will add them together to find a good overall compromise setting.
I did three passes for the front of the room, then another three passes for the rear part of the room. I thank our folks who sat through the entire ordeal so that I could get a true reading with people in the room. It is very true that room acoustics vary with the number of people in the room. Each person is 100# to 300# of sound-absorbing water! Set-up of your equipment should be made in the optimum conditions. Getting 40 people to sit through 30 minutes of "pink noise" is asking a lot!
A problem for sound engineers is aural fatigue which happens after spending many hours at the console, both in the studio and the concert setting. The only way to stay honest is to use a sound meter.
At a folk concert, I set the meter at the 80-90 Db range and nowhere in the room does it ever get louder than that.
Your performance space also has to be yours to control amd separate from any other part of the restaurant/bar area. We do not allow talking and throw out persistent ofenders.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 10:36 AM

Guest,
       Of which folk club do you speak? I feel we should be told. I have not noticed any threads re folk clubs where amplification is as well set up as you describe.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 11:13 AM

Folk-rock is just a label somebody invented. Joni Mitchell and James Taylor come under the general heading of rock, but I trust that they would play at a reasonable volume.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GLoux
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 11:22 AM

Hank Bradley wrote a very funny article on this topic for the Old Time Herald a while back. He posited that many sound people ask the question,

"Is it too loud enough, yet?"

This was the title of the article.

-Greg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Mooh
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 12:26 AM

It amazes me that some soundfolk don't think to turn down one thing instead of turning up another. Balancing sound by making everything progressively louder is kinda surreal. It's a generalisation but it seems to be a particular affliction of the rock genre. At any rate, if the drummer only knows loud, that sorta sets the minimun threshold of volume for everyone else.

Our little-local-monthly-coffee-house-type-live-music-venue has been pleasantly quiet lately but still quite listenable, except when morons insist on applauding after every instrumental break, interupting the song. Oh well, I can't have everything.

Peace, Mooh.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Escamillo
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 01:33 AM

R.Bridge said:
>At least one band I regularly do sound for always tells me "We want a really horrible wall of shit".

I applaud their honesty. Many years ago I decided to never attend any concert where amplification is used. Only non-electric jazz, folk, tango and a whole world of classical music, LOUD, BRILLIANT, OVERWHELMING, but natural sound. If we look for places with good natural acoustics, it is not necessary to listen to a set of carton and plastic cones emulating instruments and voices, because what you hear is NOT a voice or an instrument at a higher volume. You hear the product of an electric system which poorly EMULATES the natural sound.

If the music has been composed specifically for a synthetizer, I agree that it must be electric, and will listen to it at a reasonable volume, otherwise I simply go to another concert, surely not to listen to the Three Tenors and the Berlin Philarmonic in a park.

Sorry, at the age of 57 I'm getting a little old :))
Un abrazo,
Andrés


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Mudlark
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 02:37 AM

When I first started attending local folk concerts here about 15 years ago they were virtually all acoustic. The venue is not large, holds maybe 70 people, the sound is good in the room. I never had any trouble hearing either instrument or voice, and to be able to hear both unaltered by electronics was a treat. No more. Haven't heard an un(often over)amped concert in years. I know it's easier on the musicians, especially if they are on the road, doing one gig after another, but I yearn for at least a happy medium.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 03:09 AM

Hugh Jampton (I guess you are a Goons fan?) - you enjoy your anonimity and so do I. Suffice to say that my club is not in Kent or anywhere else in the UK. I described my system and procedures accurately.
To clarify my post, unlike analog frequency analysers, the "pink noise" test is done only once for each room in which you use the gear. The Peavey digital EQ (it's in a flight case in my garage but if anyone wants the model # I can get it) will store and remember multiple EQ settings. In addition to the Mains EQ tests, I also use it to set up the stage monitor EQs. It is the same procedure except the mic for the Peavey is on stage facing the monitors (a channel on the snake can temporarily be used to bring the sound back to your console position). The Peavey also works as a real-time frequency analyser - a very useful tool. I do not use this unit as an EQ as it is too difficult to adjust quickly - I transfer the readings to analog 31-band EQ units with sliders at each frequency for easier control. (The Peavey unit has an backlit LCD readout and you have to scroll along the 31-band frequency range to the one you want to adjust then up/down the arrow keys to adjust it).                                          
I posted in defense of us poor sound guys what gets the blame if the band sucks! We even have to drag all this gear in and out of the place.
I also posted to help any aspiring sound persons (yes, you women can do this too if you can lift a 60lb speaker (or can persuade somebody else to lift it :-)) out there with what I have learned over many years of running the board.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Joybell
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:07 PM

I just sang unamplified in a big old church. Oh bliss! They had to build them with the acoustics in mind in the days when this one was designed.
I do always make a point of thanking the sound crew from the stage when I do have to use amplification, and it's been well done. Usually it is, in my experience, and I'm not famous or well known. I believe that "loudness" is maybe usually under the control of the performer. I do understand the problem of how to be heard by some people and be background for others. Doesn't work generally but you can't tell that to a restaurant owner. Cheers and thanks and Koala stamps many times over for the sound crews.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Escamillo
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 02:04 AM

Surely, churches were built by architects with spell and music in mind, from the beginning, or at least since the middle ages. Unfortunately the engineering of acoustics was not well developed, and very often you will find that reverberation is excessive, but you may well compensate that effect by bringing a thousand people to the concert! :)

It's very cruel to see those modern halls recently built, which cost a fortune, and where everything is foam, cloth, carpet.. and huge amplifiers(deformers?) and speakers(shouters?). Two years ago I was invited to sing jazz at a place like those, and had to sing behind a microphone. I kept the mic at approx. 15 inches, the sound engineer made his magic, and I sang very comfortably. I would prefer to sing without amplifiers, but then you have two alternatives: 1) compete with piano, brasses, percussion and basses and be defeated, or 2) sing like Pavarotti at the opera house, which is not appropiate for jazz. When heavy instruments are present at a pop or folk concert, it seems that we are stuck to electric sound.

Un abrazo,
Andrés


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 10:57 AM

There was a pop group in "The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy" who played their instruments remotely from space. Their Sound System exceeded tha arms limitation treaties in most inhabited solar systems and needed the power of a medium sized star to drive it. They were best heard from an adjacent star system. Do you know any group who even have a giga-watt system on this planet ?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: mooman
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 11:10 AM

Dear Dave,

I took my daughter to a Queens of the Stone Age indoor gig last year and I reckon they got quite close to the Hitchiker's level!

Peace

moo


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,Keef
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:42 PM

Round where I live, (Northern NSW) we have heaps of old village halls built around 100 years ago, well before PA was invented. Most have great acoustics and you can stand on stage and speak or sing..everyone in the hall can hear you clear as a bell.
Nowadays whenever there is a gig, in come the truckloads of speaker stacks and racks of electronics. Result is always the aformentioned "wall of shit" most of the punters are outside getting away from the noise until late on when they are pissed and stoned enough to come back in for a dance. Long as that happens the gig is judged a success.
Ask the sound man nicely if he could adjust the levels so we can perhaps have an idea of what the words to the song might be and you will be advised to GFYS.
Keef (proper old fart)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:50 PM

Keef,

Should we have a thread on "Does Technology thrive on Stupidity?"

:-)

Of course if you also asked for the levels to be adjusted so that we could hear the tune, you could be responsible for the collapse of the Modern (what is euphemistically called) "Music" 'Industry***' - when people realise that there is none!

***Industry - a human activity based on the technological use of lots of energy, machinery, and loud noise - not always to any obvious logical purpose.

Robin
(Another Old Fart)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 05:37 PM

Dave, I'd guess that Douglas Adams based his band "Disaster Area" on Status Quo, the loudest band I ever saw live. My ears rang for days after that one!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Magic Gillian
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 06:38 PM

go home


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 11:32 PM

I'm not usually one for loud sounds either - I've had a slight hearing problem since I was born and an over amplified concert just sets it buzzing so I can't hear properly anyway.

Having said that, I do like rock music (just saw 'School of Rock' this evening, great film, very funny and ace soundtrack), and it just sounds weird when played quietly.

A good sound engineer is worth their weight in chocolate in my book, especially any one that has the patience to do a 45 minute sound check for June Tabor and make her happy, when she's already 30 minutes late starting.

Les Barker does the quickest sound check. He stands up, says "'Ello" down the mike and that's it.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: cobber
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 01:26 AM

When we started with Cobbers in 1968, pa systems had no place in folk music and people were expected to sit quietly and listen to the music. What changed was that folk clubs moved into the pubs and no amount of people yelling "SHUT UP" could quell the noise as the night went on. We were possibly the first to take a pa into a club and half the audience walked out in protest. It was a whole 60 watts!
As people got used to the idea, it opened new venues to folk musiciand and we would find us playing the unis along with the rock bands. The only time I can remember that people complained about the volume was at a big dance we played regularly. We had a pretty big system which we kept hidden behind an enormous Australian flag. During the week we would have maintenance days and one week, we painted the big system as the rest of the week we were only playing at schools and we used to just tale our foldback system and use that as a small p.a. So what happened? Saturday night, we turned up at the union hall for the dance, opened the trailer and all we saw was the foldback. We had forgotten to reload the other boxes. It was too late to go back and we had 800 dancers on the way, so we just put the foldbacks behind the flags and pushed it as far as we could. Like I said, that was the only time people complained about the volume, because it isn't about volume at all, it's about the quality of the sound equipment and the skill of the person in control. I hate big festivals because there are so few sound people who know what an accoustic instrument should sound like.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 01:37 AM

There used to be a club here called Grafiti. Their concert room was tintinitis hell. It was too small, and if a band played loud it hurt. When Steeleye Span played there it was a horror.
When I caught Steeleye Span they were at the Carnegie Music hall, built a hundred years ago, when Carnegie had Lillian Russel herself in to test the accoustics. They could play as loud as they liked. The concert was wonderful.
I went to hear the Chieftains at an attrocity called the I.C. Light Amphitheater. Who was the genius who put up an outdoor concert hall in between the Fort Pitt Bridge, Carson Street, and the railroad tracks? I think the only bands that would do well there are the kind that would give you tintinitis.
A lot depends on the venue. Someone should remember that people go to concerts to hear music.
Oh, if you're playing in Pittsburgh the best accoustics in town are at the auditorium at the Soldiers and Sailors memorial. The Carnegie Music and Lecture halls run a close second.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 05 - 11:54 AM

Mr red complained about the volume of Tickled Pink........fair enuf...as he says we make no apologies for it. We bill ourselves as 'the loudest ceilidh band in the universe' so there really is no room for complaint if you accept this statement. I am however prepared to take issue that we play too fast....I am a stickler for tempos and am quite miffed to have this allegation put forward.

Would it be possible for Mr Red to turn down his clothing if at all possible.

Thanx for the nice comments about SCT though.

SimonCare


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: kendall
Date: 24 May 05 - 12:00 PM

Volume will never replace talent.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Charmion
Date: 24 May 05 - 01:01 PM

Some 15 to 20 years ago, when I still considered myself fairly hip and with it (as it were), I went to hear Levon Helm and his band (not The Band, alas) play a gig at a club operating in the basement of framing shop in Old Ottawa South. The ceiling height was probably eight or nine feet -- quite normal in a living space or storage area but low for a rock venue -- and the speakers were stacked up to the acoustic tile.

I didn't make it through the first set, and all I remember of it now is a feeling of oppressively claustrophobic dread coupled with severe pain. The cover charge was $20 and I was poor as a church mouse at the time, but I was so desperate to get out of there that I never demanded my money back!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: kendall
Date: 24 May 05 - 01:13 PM

A few years ago there was a tee shirt that said "IF IT'S TOO LOUD, YOU ARE TOO OLD."

I have a tee shirt that says "IF IT'S TOO LOUD, IT'S TOO F*****G LOUD."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 May 05 - 01:15 PM

Spoken like someone who's too f#cking old, Kendall...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 05 - 01:34 PM

Am I the onlyone who doesn't find CH funny?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Turn down the volume!
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 24 May 05 - 01:41 PM

Church keyboard players and organists are among the worst offenders. I've been tempted to have some stickers printed that say "God Is Not Hard Of Hearing" and surreptitiously putting them on all keyboards and organs.

Jerry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 11 August 11:39 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.